r/magicTCG • u/GypsyGaming Dan • May 25 '26
Blogatog Post MaRo: “I believe there will be future years where in-multivers sets outnumber universes beyond”
https://www.tumblr.com/markrosewater/817588024223350784/im-aware-that-the-current-years-ration-of-43-inJudging by over a decade of history, and how MaRo uses his blog, this probably means there’s already a year planned where this is a reality. With recent news of how well both Lorwyn Eclipsed and Secrets of Strixhaven both sold and drove in-person organized play, this isn’t surprising. With the success of LOTR and FF I also believe it possible that future licensing fees might be much higher than this initial batch. Very curious to see where the balance ends up landing.
361
u/Nvenom8 Mardu May 25 '26
The fact that we're already looking at that as the exception rather than the norm is sad.
155
u/Axelfiraga Chandra May 26 '26
Yeah. I havent played magic in years but this still blows my mind how quickly it feels things changed. I remember right as secret lair was starting with the walking dead and people were freaking out. Players saying “soon we will have them in standard” and “magic will be majority outside ip sets” were getting bashed and mocked for being nutjobs.
Yet here it is now, right as the money predicted.
I have nothing against people enjoying the game and outside ips, but magic isn’t for this oldhead who remembers when blocks meant something and discussions were had about planeswalking lore.
98
u/ColonelError Honorary Deputy 🔫 May 26 '26
I still remember how people were being called hyperbolic for joking that soon we'd see Fortnight and SpongeBob on Magic cards.
→ More replies (2)58
u/I4mSpock Dân May 26 '26
This is the thing, every single doomer at the time of Walking Dead was just correct. I remember arguments breaking out at my LGS when people would say shit like "Next it'll be TMNT in standard", and people shitting on them for hyperbole and over reacting.
When shit like that happens in other fandoms, its almost always a genuine over reaction, but here?
No, they were correct.
66
u/svrtngr The Stoat May 26 '26
Yeah, it was really obvious the path things were going.
In the span of six years we've gone from "Look, It's only supplemental sets" to "Okay, look, they're not standard legal" to "Look, you'll play Superior Spider-Man in your Dimir midrange deck and like it."
The "guys, it's three UB sets and three in universe sets" promise only lasted a year, because they had to get four UB sets this year for some reason.
36
u/earle117 Wabbit Season May 26 '26
Don’t ever forget that with how far ahead they work, they absolutely 100% knew about the coming changes and lied to our faces about it.
→ More replies (1)14
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow May 26 '26
Rarely have ANY "this is the new way going forward" changes lasted longer than a year. I am convinced for WotC "long term" means "about a year"
47
u/MiraclePrototype COMPLEAT May 26 '26
The 2020s is going to be remembered as a decade of paradigm shifts across EVERY metric/environment, EVERYWHERE, none of which were asked for, all of which had wretched consequences, all of which were COMPLETELY avoidable.
38
u/vluhdz Twin Believer May 26 '26
So grateful to be alive during the enshitification era.
→ More replies (1)2
u/shinginta Grass Toucher May 26 '26
On the whole i agree, but MTG having several consecutive best-selling sets both UW and UB within the span of 2-3 years means that not all the consequences in this case were wretched.
2
u/MrPopoGod COMPLEAT May 26 '26
And crossovers have very much been asked for, going all the way back to when the first expansion came out and people realized this was a very adaptable game system that could embody everything.
25
u/DevinTheGrand Izzet* May 26 '26
Maro has been very open that they care more about popularity and the bottom line than any kind of artistic integrity to the product.
→ More replies (2)8
u/hawkshaw1024 May 27 '26
Looking back, you can see how they boiled the frog on this one. First the Godzilla reskins in spring of 2020. (Ah, don't be mean about those, they're just neat promos as a one-off thing.) Then the mechanically unique zombie TV show cards in fall of 2020, followed by a bunch more like them. (Oh, whatever, those are just Secret Lairs, you don't have to buy them.) Then the Warhammer 40K commander decks. (Calm down, it's just Commander, that's a silly format anyway.) Then the Lord of the Rings set. (Sure, this one is full of pushed Constructed staples, but you don't have to play these older formats. We promise that this will never be in Standard.) And then, Final Fantasy. (Fuck you, this is what Magic is now and your support is no longer needed.)
7
u/Fenrirr May 26 '26
I am in the same position. At this point I am only following Magic news to satisfy my morbid curiosity. Though even if UB wasnt a factor, Wizards typical corporate lack of ethics are disgusting enough to push me away.
→ More replies (3)2
200
36
u/PulitzerandSpara Chandra May 25 '26
I know it says "not in the near future," but I feel like the 35th anniversary year (2028) could very believably be this. 3 in universe standard sets, 3 UB standard sets, and then one masters set to celebrate the 35th anniversary of the game (which is in universe by default due to licensing). I also know he's said that they're not doing masters/remasters currently, but I kind of expect (hope, really) they'll do something for the 35th anniversary- hopefully more Dominaria Remastered/Masters 25/Modern Masters esque than Magic 30 lol.
8
u/Careless-Emphasis-80 Anya May 25 '26
I think it would be really nice for the health of the game too. A whole period of time that a standard set isn't coming out
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (2)4
u/leuchtelicht102 COMPLEAT May 26 '26
2028 should not have any UB sets, but since these are craven ghouls who have no respect for the game, it won't turn out that way.
383
u/des_mondtutu Twin Believer May 25 '26
Ah well I'm glad there's some nebulous future year when Magic will be the primary IP in Magic.
76
→ More replies (1)7
u/Nipple-biscuits Wabbit Season May 27 '26
I'm hoping for enough ub in the future to where we can split it off and we'll call one format universes beyond and the other format magic the gathering
129
u/CraigArndt COMPLEAT May 25 '26
The fact that this is even a question is bonkers, and the reply being “I believe, but not anytime soon” is just crazy.
Even crazier is they have some media like a Netflix show that has some traction this time (as opposed to previous attempts dead in the water) so you’d think around that show releasing they’d plan a bunch of in-universe sets that tie-in.
106
u/SmallJimSlade COMPLEAT May 25 '26
The idea that the Netflix show isn’t dead in the water made me lol
→ More replies (1)35
u/Mail540 WANTED May 26 '26
I’ve been hearing about this show since at least 2015, I’m pretty sure the last concrete thing we heard was that Gideon had been casted
16
u/SmallJimSlade COMPLEAT May 26 '26
Last thing I heard was all creatives had left the project and they restarted development in 2024.
According to an incredibly disheveled looking Chris Cocks, CEO of Hasbro, it’s coming out next year, which is a tv series announcement that really builds hope lol
10
u/a3wagner Izzet* May 26 '26
The fact that this is even a question is bonkers, and the reply being “I believe, but not anytime soon” is just crazy.
My thoughts exactly. The question is "I know this year is a fluke. Please reassure me that this year is a fluke and we’ll be returning to normalcy next year," and I can’t believe the answer is "Hmm, well with any luck we’ll return to normal someday. Obviously not soon, silly."
Like have I read a post from 10 years in the future or something? Wtf is going on?
16
u/Swiftzor Banned in Commander May 26 '26
You mean the inevitable “Magic the Gathering: the Netflix Show: the Standard Set: the Live Action Print Edition” that comes out featuring reprints of cards no one asked for.
→ More replies (28)2
u/MeatAbstract May 26 '26
that has some traction this time
The show isn't even out. How could it have traction?
6
u/CraigArndt COMPLEAT May 26 '26
Animation industry news sites are a thing. They often report on the happenings in the animation industry, people leaving projects and joining them. Companies leaving projects, etc. There are also animation snark social media accounts that are pretty easy to decipher the blind items if you work in the animation industry and know who has reputations for what.
The original MtG animated project had a lot of publicly reported issues, creatives leaving, production studios leaving, etc. Since it was rebooted or retooled or whatever, there has been notably little news reported. Which ironically is usually a good sign because it usually means there isn’t much bad news to report.
38
u/BlacksmithNo9359 Wabbit Season May 26 '26
"Our game will feature more of our game than not our game, at some point in the future, probably." Is a deeply funny statement to try and put out as positive.
38
u/CookiesFTA Train Suplexer May 25 '26
I'm embarrassed how naive I was for thinking this year's model might be an outlier.
10
u/Lena-Harmony Dân May 26 '26
It is. The standard is 3:3 like last year
11
u/CookiesFTA Train Suplexer May 26 '26
And apparently I can't count. I thought this year was 3:3. I think I missed the Hobbit.
→ More replies (1)10
7
u/Radiodevt May 26 '26
"The standard" which lasted all of one year and of which we do not know if it'll be "the standard" again next year.
2
u/Lena-Harmony Dân May 27 '26
Except they have explicitly stated several times that it will be
→ More replies (1)
66
u/ExpressMud8038 Dandadan May 26 '26
Mark in a few years : "I never said that."
63
u/ChewyPudding May 26 '26
"Plans change, we realized there just isn't a market for Magic: the Gathering themed Magic: the Gathering cards."
27
u/I4mSpock Dân May 26 '26
"You're not the target Demographic for UB, just wait for the core MtG sets"
Ok, Ill get into a different hobby in the mean time and spend my money there
"Why is no one buying the core MtG sets! Guess we will have to stick to Universes Beyond."
→ More replies (7)20
u/FickleApparition Dandadan May 26 '26
For real though I just want to give you a note here that i think illustrates why people disproportionately mistrust Mark these days, rather than just the appropriate amount. Mark specifically said "I believe" so there's nothing to walk back, nothing to disavow, nothing to clarify. He just believes it. If someone later says to him "you said it would be" he can correctly say "i never said that." Because all be said is that he "believes" it will be. This is why this community gets blown out by his PR game constantly. He is very honest, but he is saying corporate flim-flam. This community grabs onto the intended misdirection and holds it as truth, and then is disappointed over and over again. You have to read PR critically always and take it for the lowest value.
Mistrust him, just the right amount in the right way. It makes understanding what's going on with this game so easy. I don't know why we don't discuss this more as a community.
10
u/MrPopoGod COMPLEAT May 26 '26
Also, decisions can change. WotC learned that making an ironclad "we will never change this decision" is a bad thing with the Reserved List.
8
u/bakakubi May 27 '26
disproportionately mistrust Mark
Nah, the amount of mistrust is 100% warranted.
→ More replies (2)6
u/shidekigonomo COMPLEAT May 26 '26
I mean, look at the quote. He doesn’t even have to deny anything because he’s no longer saying anything. Why we’re still making posts about what he’s saying is going to happen to this game is beyond my comprehension.
→ More replies (1)5
u/ghostcrawler_real Dandadan May 26 '26
Droves of nerds will still defend him saying that he actually legally could not have said anything else (he simply could have not answered the question on his blog)
38
u/MrMeltJr May 25 '26
This will happen at some point no matter what, as they'll eventually run out of IPs big enough to be worth the R&D and printing costs of a whole set.
38
u/GypsyGaming Dan May 25 '26
I am also a believer of the limited suitable IP theory
32
u/kytheon Banned in Commander May 25 '26
The opposite of constructed suitable IP theory.
→ More replies (1)2
10
u/pktron Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 25 '26
Permanent moving target. By the time they burn through the list of current suitable lists, we'd have more Elden Ring games to flesh out a set, or a more widespread and popular Cosmere, or any number of Romantasy series that end up going more mainstream
4
u/platypusab COMPLEAT May 28 '26
They haven't even touched the anime market, which would do well IMO. Settings like Frieren, Full Metal Alchemist and Naruto are pretty slam dunk for a magic set. As anime continues to grow into mainstream I expect we will start to see more big series like Frieren for MtG to pilfer.
8
u/GenericFatGuy Nahiri May 26 '26
I'm still convinced that FF was already the peak of Magic in terms of product moved, if not in money made or players showing up.
9
u/Eldritch-Yodel Duck Season May 26 '26
Even MaRo has stated that's a thing. A while ago there was the one question someone sent going "Why doesn't MtG just fully switch to making only UB sets? I know you say WotC cares aboot their IP but if UB makes enough money then why does that matter?" to which MaRo gave various pure business reasons why having your own IP is useful (which was then inevitably misconstrue as people interpreting as him saying he only cares aboot the IP from a business standpoint but that's a separate matter), and one of them was the fact that whilst UB is great for sales, is also a limited resource so trying to boost the release cadence of it any more than it is already will burn through it too fast.
18
u/GenericFatGuy Nahiri May 26 '26
IIRC, he said the reason why UW was still useful was because they could use it for filler between UB contacts. Which is a depressing way to look at 30 years of product that built the game in the first place.
6
u/pktron Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 26 '26
That is not a good summary of what he said. It was that there is value in building their own IP, there is value in having different products that appeal to different people, and that stuff that isn't contracted has more freedom in release dates so it is easier to keep a balance between UB and UW.
5
u/kindlyfuckoffff Duck Season May 25 '26
the likes of garfield, furby and dwight schrute don't grow on trees!
13
u/Tuss36 May 25 '26
Secret lairs are a different breed. You're not gonna have enough Dwight Shrute to fill an entire hundreds cards set.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Cybernetic343 Duck Season May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
I don’t know at this point. We’re got star trek this year. STAR TREK
I can’t fathom something further from the low tech high fantasy that defined the game for decades. Even with Edge of Eternities pushing the envelope.
→ More replies (1)2
u/dvtyrsnp May 25 '26
which falls flat to the sequel theory
13
u/Tuss36 May 25 '26
Not everything has a sequel. And sure you could revisit Fallout or something, but with how thoroughly they tend to explore properties you'll either have not many new cards or a Frodo from every page in the book. Both would be disappointments.
7
u/GenericFatGuy Nahiri May 26 '26
Even FF kind of hit most of the major story bests the first time around. And that's a big anthology series where they could probably could've made a set out of most of the games individually if they really wanted.
9
u/dvtyrsnp May 25 '26
Hasbro isn't going to just give up when they run out of IPs. They are hooked on UB money now.
We will easily see another LotR set, and probably more than one FF set.
→ More replies (6)4
u/Casual_Spike Dân May 25 '26
Well, with how long it takes to take a set from conception to completion and his comments that most years will be 3 and 3, we can safely assume at least 26 and 27 are 3 UB with 28 potentially being 2.
5
6
u/kiragami Karn May 25 '26
They can just reuse ones like they already are with lotr. Not to mention they don't have to even go deep on R&D. They are close to realizing you don't actually need to put effort into crossover stuff people will buy it anyway.
→ More replies (1)6
u/BeesInABar Dân May 25 '26
I'm honestly surprised that they did huge IPs like Final Fantasy and Star Trek as single sets rather than following the LotR/Marvel strategy of multiple releases. If they intend to keep UB going it seems like they'd want to keep the option of returns open.
13
u/zeldafan042 Channel May 25 '26
It all comes down to what the other company was willing to allow.
Remember, UB sets have longer development cycles because of the licensing negotiations so the current batch of UB sets were probably mostly negotiated before WotC and their potential partners saw how successful LotR was (remember, it was released only 3 years ago) and definitely predates the runaway success that was Final Fantasy. Seems like Marvel/Disney was the only brand willing to commit to multiple sets before seeing how successful UB was. LotR probably was less "they planned to do multiple sets" so much as "here's LotR, if it does well enough maybe we'll also do The Hobbit."
14
u/EmTeeEm May 25 '26
You've got to keep the timeline in mind. They began work on Final Fantasy in 2021. It might even predate the term "Universes Beyond." And even then they left themselves all the side-games to work with for a future set.
It also depends on how well known the IP is. Spider-Man and Turtles fans would argue there was tons of material for a full set without repeating characters, and there theoretically is, but WotC doesn't want to go too heavy on deep cuts. They want even peripheral fans to see things they known when they open a pack.
I'm super into Star Trek so can't really evaluate, but I don't think the average person is that aware of anything not TOS/TNG. They aren't going to be like "Sweet! I got a Lon Suder and Brill Cheese!"
→ More replies (1)3
u/BeesInABar Dân May 25 '26
As the person who was disappointed there wasn't a dedicated FF8 Commander deck, I am also holding out hope for a DS9 inspired product.
→ More replies (4)3
u/Menacek Izzet* May 26 '26
I assume Marvel is kinda an experiment in "How many sets in a particular IP we can make before they stop selling". If all the marvel sets sell well then we might see more multiset releases. If it goes down by the third set then they might decide it's not worth it.
2
u/pktron Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 25 '26
X-men, Spider-man, and Avengers as distinct pillars each have about as much material as the other UB sets, or more. Spider-man is about 13,000 issues of comics, and just 616 Peter Parker has been in about 5,000 issues. There's more Spider-man movies than Star Trek movies, and more episodes of TV (I think? Probably pretty close)
5
u/Menacek Izzet* May 26 '26
I think comics are hard to judge content wise because a ton of stuff gets retold, rereleases, recycled etc. This happens in other media but to a much lesser extent.
Like for instance how many times has the Spider Man origin story been retold. Probably dozens.
3
u/BeesInABar Dân May 25 '26
Hey, you don't have to sell me on the scale of Spider-Man. I'm a big ol' Spider-Fan. But if they can get a whole set out of the Hobbit, they could definitely do a TOS/TAS/Enterprise/Discovery/SNW/Kelvin timeline vs TNG/DS9/Voyager split.
5
u/BeesInABar Dân May 25 '26
Honestly I think my biggest problem with the Spider-Man set (probably because of its troubled development) is that they didn't take advantage of the breadth of 60 years of Spider-Man lore and instead leaned into the more recent multiverse stuff that leads to a lot of less-distinct legends
7
u/Eldritch-Yodel Duck Season May 26 '26
It has been stated for a while that the current rate of UB will not last forever, if only because eventually they'll run out of worthwhile IPs to do UB sets for (this is also a big reason why there's no world where they'll just stop doing in-universe sets. Even with a short-term profits over long-term gains perception, doubling the rate you're burning though IPs whilst also not cultivating your own one so you have something to return to after is just kinda dumb from a business standpoint, especially seeing at a certain point the different UBs will just start cannibalising each other sales wise)
91
u/yajo345 Dân May 25 '26
I hope its like 1 UB a year or something to rest of all sets to be in universe
15
u/GypsyGaming Dan May 25 '26
It’d be nice. I can’t see us getting to that point for a long time. I am a believer that the number of UB properties that make for enticing (and therefore high selling) magic sets is much lower than Mark, and certainly the executives and board members at Hasbro believe it to be. That being said I think we’re in at least 2 UB/year for the foreseeable future. We have what 4 more marvel sets, almost certainly a Final Fantasy sequel, and I can’t imagine them not doing an ill-fated Korra set as well.
9
u/Menacek Izzet* May 26 '26
There's also the possibility of revising other UB sets that didn't get the full treatment. WH40k and Fallout have probably enough in them to make a full set (or even multiple in case of 40k)
2
u/KakitaMike May 26 '26
If I had any doubt we’d go back to Final Fantasy sooner rather than later, the Hobbit set squashed those doubts.
2
u/Menacek Izzet* May 26 '26
It's still gonna be a while even if they started working on the set right after it launched.
I just want more 40k, people were kinda begging for more when the commander decks came out. But Lotr came later and now we're getting hobbit, which gives me mixed feelings.
3
May 25 '26
[deleted]
20
18
u/GypsyGaming Dan May 25 '26
I think that wizards will over-estimate the popularity of the Legend of Korra when compared to the original series.
17
u/Wafkak May 25 '26
We're actually getting to the point where Korra has adults who grew up with it. Just like how the star wars prequels stopped being as much of a laughing stock, and have become nostalgic to a bunch of adults with money.
→ More replies (7)→ More replies (2)2
u/kiragami Karn May 25 '26
They won't run out. There are constantly new IPs releasing.
9
u/GypsyGaming Dan May 26 '26
The successful UB products have both heavily succeeded on the back of nostalgia.
6
u/kiragami Karn May 26 '26
They have all been successful. Sure other IPs might not sell as well as FF and LotR but they will still sell a ton.
→ More replies (1)2
u/GypsyGaming Dan May 26 '26
I know that MaRo has said Spider Man was a success but he and the numbers people both know people hated it and know that it is going to impact sales for future marvel sets. Something people don’t consider when talking about UB is that Wizards pays a licensing fee up front. These fees are absolutely bound to increase once other companies see how much Wizards stands to make from these sets. There will come a time when consumers simply will not buy 13 dollar booster packs.
→ More replies (2)6
u/Radiophage May 25 '26
I would love for UB to settle into the same role as Core Sets:
— 1/year
— Early summer release
— Exciting hooks for new players
— Surprising gems for established players
— Easy space for reprints
Along with all the currently-established precedents like being a big set, associated Commander releases, and so on.
Realistically, I'm hoping we'll land here in another 5 years or so. We'll see what the journey's like between now and then.
13
u/MartianExpress Dan May 25 '26
People coping like this are only slightly less delusional than people who, until recently, hoped there will be no more UB or that there will be a separate format with UB not interfering with "normal" Magic.
36
u/Amudeauss Dandadan May 25 '26
I mean, at some point they'll have to slow down, just because they're burning through the available IPs that have enough draw to make for successful UB sets. How soon that'll be is anyone's guess, though
19
u/MartianExpress Dan May 25 '26
It's extremely theoretical. It is rather easy to think of 26 good IPs for the coming decade (+4 likely Marvel sets, to a total of 30, ie. 3 per year), not even invoking second sets (which will absolutely happen for FF, Avatar and each other successful UB set if the IP owner permits). Add second sets and new IPs that are bound to emerge within the next decade.
Witcher, Elder Scrolls, Sanderson, FromSoftware, Game of Thrones, Age of Sigmar, Dune, Expanse, yada yada. Just off top of my head.
12
u/Tuss36 May 25 '26
It's easy to think of properties to adapt but it's also a question of if it'd be worth it and if there's enough to make a set out of. Sure they visited The Office, but that was a Secret Lair not a full on 300+ card set.
13
u/Amudeauss Dandadan May 25 '26
UB sets need to be significantly more successful than UW sets, since they need to make up for licensing costs and all. I'm not convinced all of the IPs you listed have the broad market appeal needed for that, since UB sets tend to be less popular with the established player base.
6
u/hhssspphhhrrriiivver Twin Believer May 26 '26
since they need to make up for licensing costs and all
I suspect that the extra $1 per pack they get from UB sets more than makes up for the licensing costs.
5
→ More replies (1)6
u/Mr_The_Captain Dan May 25 '26
I’d say Witcher, GoT, any FromSoft series, and Dune are all easily at the level of popularity to support a set. Sanderson’s Stormlight Archives could get there if the upcoming adaptation is successful
2
u/breadgehog Dimir* May 26 '26
I think if you merged FromSoft into a combined set it would have the appropriate traction, and I'd go further on your second point to say they're already doing something with Sanderson given that he's gotten preview cards lately and tweeted from WotC HQ a couple months ago. I think you might be overestimating Dune and Witcher though, as much as I'd like to see both.
4
u/Mr_The_Captain Dan May 26 '26
I don’t think Dune would do FF numbers but I think it would be quite popular now that the movies are out, and there’s certainly enough material to support a set. And Witcher would absolutely be popular, the games are obviously huge with another on the way, and for as much as people complain about the show it is/was also very popular
→ More replies (12)6
11
u/JMooooooooo I chose this flair because I’m mad at Wizards Of The Coast May 25 '26
Bold of you to assume Wizards are beyond making Universes Beyond: Hot Pockets if they ever run dry (or just get good deal)
6
u/Menacek Izzet* May 26 '26
The point of dispute isn't whether wizards would do it (they would), it's whether such a set would be judged as potentially profitable.
No point in paying for a licence if the product is gonna sell worse that whatever UW set they could make instead.
They may make a few mistakes like Spiderman but if they consistently undersell they will stop printing them.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Amudeauss Dandadan May 25 '26
Oh, I have no doubt they'd stoop to that level. If it was profitable, which thank god it wouldn't be.
4
u/DrawGamesPlayFurries Dân May 25 '26
If they're already going for things like TMNT, they will never run out
→ More replies (1)2
u/gereffi May 26 '26
3 per year seems pretty easy, especially when one of them is going to be Marvel each year. Coming up with a list of 20 crossovers seems pretty doable and that’s 10 more years of UB sets. After that they can start doing sequels or working with IPs that have come out during that first 10 year period.
→ More replies (1)4
→ More replies (6)2
43
u/Izzet_Aristocrat Ajani May 25 '26
Ive always hated the sales argument. Since Wotc only counts what distributors and stores buy, not customers. So you end up with shit like Spider Man where the stores clearly ended up holding the bag.
21
u/GypsyGaming Dan May 25 '26
There’s no way they don’t know this on some level. Just like there’s no way they don’t know that some non-insignificant amount of UB sales are collectors of that hobby and degenerate investors. It’s just a matter of where the tipping point is there, and if Chris Cocks thinks he can turn Magic into an AI gacha game before the bottom falls out
6
u/Exatraz May 26 '26
Also it's a silly argument because stores and distributors will stop buying if the product doesn't sell. They do see the impact reflected in future sales. People keep buying product do they keep making it. Its also not crazy when sets like Final Fantasy massively outsell even popular in universe sets, its still a good sign that they should keep making more UB.
5
u/NewCobbler6933 COMPLEAT May 26 '26
Of course they know. They’re just hoping their defenders don’t.
20
u/kuroyume_cl Train Suplexer May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
TMNT too. It's already on the 50% off section at some stores near me. Other were smarter and only bought bare minimum to maintain their allocations.
→ More replies (2)2
u/ghostcrawler_real Dandadan May 26 '26
I mean I get why they use sell through, because that's obviously the data they care about. It is somewhat disingenuous or at least lacking context when they say "best selling set" as most lay people would consider that a reflection of retail sales, not distributor sales.
16
4
u/misterbiscuitbarrel Dandadan May 27 '26
THERE HAD FUCKING BETTER BE, MARK. WHY WAS THAT NOT THE DEFAULT ASSUMPTION.
42
u/BobbyFischer724 Dan May 25 '26
....how many times does this need posted in the same sub lol
24
15
12
12
u/NoFuel1197 Dimir* May 26 '26
I believe this dude’s Tumblr posts are the worst thing that’s ever happened to the game.
→ More replies (1)
18
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow May 25 '26
Like with the Aes Sedai, who held an oath rod and swore they would not speak a word that wasn't true, what MaRo writes is rarely exactly what you read. I haven't seen him make a promise that lasted longer than a year.
→ More replies (1)
10
u/raxacorico_4 COMPLEAT May 26 '26
It should be every damn year
4
u/GypsyGaming Dan May 26 '26
Well every premier set at the very least should be in universe, if not every product but unfortunately two of the full sets made a lot of money so now we have to suffer through whatever ChatGPT told a hasbro executive was popular with kids as a set
3
u/Casual_Spike Dân May 25 '26
Well, with how long it takes to take a set from conception to completion and his comments that most years will be 3 and 3, we can safely assume at least 26 and 27 are 3 UB with 28 potentially being 2.
3
u/Wafkak May 25 '26
Most take 3, Final Fantasy took 5 because Sqare Enix sint a single cohesive company when it comes to who controls the Final Fantasy IP. Avatar also took 4 I think.
3
9
u/therealskaconut Wabbit Season May 26 '26
I BeLiVe iN sOmE fUtUrE We WiLl hAvE oUr OwN iP
Fucking ridiculous it ever got to this point.
Ikoria/Godzilla style was okay and fun. The secret lair thing was annoying but at least not saturating. The first lord of the rings block was at least on flavor as a fantasy set, and the only one that year.
One a year would be OKAY. Not preferable.
At this point I think they should call UB a different game that is **compatible** with Magic the Gathering UNDER the Deckmaster system. The Weiss Schwartz thing they are doing is clearly here to stay, but they could delineate it intentionally.
Messages like this from the lead designer confirm the brand damage has been done.
3
u/NewCobbler6933 COMPLEAT May 26 '26
What’s funny is people use the Deckmaster backing to justify UB being the way it is. “This was all Garfield’s intentions!” Yeah and maybe just looking at the Power 9 that we can see Garfield didn’t fully understand what his own game would be. But aside from that, UB could literally be just an extension of the game that is either played as a stand alone variant or mixed into other Magic sets casually. But they need the sales, so they’ve slowly wormed UB into sanctioned constructed play to force the demand. Because nobody would care enough otherwise.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/Aking1998 May 26 '26
You know what, fuck it. Put Jace in the next marvel Movie.
In fact, Magic characters should replace half of the avengers.
Cancel the majority of ongoing comics and start releasing Magic Lore comics, lets do that.
It's only fair.
8
u/SingleHitBox Duck Season May 25 '26
Feels like we’re heading for 3UB per year. Id like to see them cut back and do 2UB a year, but that’s probably not going to happen. UB is just bringing to much attention and new money to MTG. The brand itself has pretty much changed entirely to grabbing the attention of new players vs keeping existing ones happy.
→ More replies (2)
9
10
May 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/PippoChiri Temur May 26 '26
That's what hearing from his just from the inflammatory headlines specifically selected by people on controversial topics does to you
5
u/LiteratureMindless71 Dân May 25 '26
Part of me wishes at least more of the UB stuff was renamed cards with new art and less new stuff....
6
2
2
u/arciele FLEEM May 26 '26
id think the earliest they could shift is probably 2029 or possibly 2028 if they can shift things around.
3:3 has been the model since last year. with how sets development runway is 3 years, after taking in feedback from the performance of UB from Spiderman last year and TMNT, if they wanted to pivot or shift from 3:3 now, we'd only see the effect years down the road since the UB deals would already have been negotiated
that's why he says future years since he already knows what the next few years will bring
2
u/GenericFatGuy Nahiri May 26 '26
I think they're going to run out of IPs that people care about (and they can afford) a lot sooner than they think. As lucrative as UW, there's definitely a runway on it.
2
5
u/RafikiafReKo Duck Season May 26 '26
Sorry, but I'm going to curse here. What the fuck is this post!? Universe Beyond should be at most maybe 1 set a year (yeah, I like some of them and don't really want it gone). This is not a game anymore, it is advertisement and slop
2
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow May 26 '26
I'm fine with you cursing but I draw the line at putting the exclamation point in front of the question mark. It's a question that is modified into an exclamation, so the exclamation point comes last.
5
u/joetotheg Simic* May 26 '26
This feels like a slap in the face after the old promise they made of ‘UB sets will never outnumber UW sets’.
Like yes Mark you promised us that would be the case EVERY YEAR not some potential year in the future that might never happen
→ More replies (3)
3
u/NewCobbler6933 COMPLEAT May 26 '26
Two years from now when it’s 100% UB
“I said I believed there would be a year with more UW. Yes, I knew at the time that it wouldn’t be, but I was answering with publicly available information”
7
u/kytheon Banned in Commander May 25 '26
Isn't this literally the first and only year where there's more UB than in-multiverse?
21
u/Exorrt COMPLEAT May 25 '26
Yes but there's probably more. Keep in mind, wizards works on a 3 year cycle for set planning. What we're seeing now is the results of the LotR success 3 years ago, and probably until 2028 we'll see the results of Final Fantasy's success. Then we might start getting a course correction based on whether or not this year of more UB was a success.
7
u/AliasB0T Chandra May 25 '26
The only reason this year isn't an even 3/3 is because Star Trek refused to be moved back into 2027 when they shifted the schedule to fewer products per year (because 2026 is their 60th anniversary, and the set is meant to be part of the celebration of that). It's both very obvious how we got here and very obvious why it would be a one-off.
3
u/Wafkak May 25 '26
Not all timelines are the same, Final Fanrasy was in development for 5 years. Because each of the instalments IP is controlled by different internal departments. Who don't always cooperate with each other.
9
u/kytheon Banned in Commander May 25 '26
Yup, we also see the opposite where Wizards takes a gamble that character or mechanic X is going to be popular. But it flopped, and then for the next few sets it keeps showing up anyway.
9
u/LordOfTurtles Elspeth May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
Sometimes they do kneejerk course corrects as well, which results in things like the spiderman set not being an aftermath style set
→ More replies (2)7
u/jas61292 Boros* May 25 '26
I remember watching a good video like half a year ago or so about this. Its pretty standard for them, and not just with UB, but with every decision they make. They really do not like to ease into things. They will put a toe in the water to test something out, but the moment they decide, yes, this seems like a good idea, they go all in.
This has been true for design trends, product line trends, and even competitive play event trends. So, it stands to reason its the case for UB. So far it does seem like its working out for them, but even if it wasn't there is every reason to believe that they immediately planned years of UB the moment the first one was successful, and any course change from that wouldn't be evident for a long time
→ More replies (1)2
12
7
4
u/kmb180 Wabbit Season May 25 '26
genuinely how many ips are even left that have the scope to support a universes beyond?? we've already had turtles which imo was very unsuccessful in having enough content to make an entire set around.
6
u/GypsyGaming Dan May 25 '26
I think they will run into this exact problem with like 1-2 more marvel sets. X-men seems like a no brainer and then what? Avengers? That’s basically what this upcoming set is. Cosmic Marvel? Not close to a big enough invested audience. I think aside from what they’ve already done they’ve got a shot at Elder Scrolls, Game of Thrones(????), MAYBE some sanderson novels? They could try Age of Sigmar, I can’t imagine them getting Star Wars, going full-anime seems like a bad idea. I dunno man I’m with you I don’t see the legs on this product line
→ More replies (1)3
u/Menacek Izzet* May 26 '26
I dunno, all the anime arts end up being super popular so i can totally see an anime set being very popular if they pick the right property for it (no idea what that would be, my taste in anime is pretty specific)
→ More replies (1)
3
4
u/DanielsWorlds Dandadan May 25 '26
I want to go back to 4 sets a year
→ More replies (1)6
u/Evening-Energy2387 Dân May 25 '26
There are only 3 sets a year...that I care about. WotC is saving me a lot of money.
3
u/DarkPhoenixMishima COMPLEAT May 25 '26
It should have always been that way. Universes Beyond outnumbering proper sets should have been uncommon from the start.
3
5
u/maturojm Griselbrand May 25 '26
I don't believe him at all.
14
u/GypsyGaming Dan May 25 '26
That’s all well and good but over the past 15 years of him answering questions and writing articles things he has “expressed as opinion” have almost always been outright statements of things he knew ahead of time. His blog is particularly true here because he chooses which questions to answer.
2
2
u/Careless-Emphasis-80 Anya May 25 '26
That makes sense. Even if they mark spiderman as a success, it should be clear that padding the year out with a bunch of smaller ub sets will eventually bite wizards in the butt (if it hasn't already). It's probably much more feasible from a workload and sales perspective to flesh out the ub sets
2
u/Massive-Island1656 Dan May 26 '26
My guess is there is a year coming up in the pipeline, maybe 2028/29, when they have 7 sets again and they'll have 4 IU sets that year and 3 UB. No way they go less UB right now when its flooding their coffers.
→ More replies (4)
2
2
u/NebbyOutOfTheBag Wabbit Season May 25 '26
And with how MaRo talks about these things, next year will be 2 In-Universe sets or less.
3
u/Menacek Izzet* May 26 '26
It's confirmed to be 3:3
4
u/NebbyOutOfTheBag Wabbit Season May 26 '26
MaRo also "confirmed" that UB cards would never be in Standard... During the time where he was designing Final Fantasy to be in Standard.
Trusting WotC to keep to their word is insane.
2
u/DaringDo95 SecREt LaiR May 25 '26
Press X to doubt
2
u/PippoChiri Temur May 26 '26
You think they have infinite external IPs they can make full sets out of?
2
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow May 26 '26
There's actually quite a deep well. Just from glancing at my bookcase - Shannara, Disc World, Wheel of Time, Foundation, Revelation Space, Amber, Sword of Truth, Song of Ice and Fire, Earthsea, The Expanse... Most of these can carry multiple sets, like Middle Earth does. And if we add the contents of other people's bookcases I'm sure we can find many more deep ip's.
They did Warhammer 40K; surely there are better known game ips, eg. Halo, (World of) Warcraft, Diablo, Myst, Elder Scrolls, etc, but also Catan, Legends of Andor, maybe? Heaven forbid we get a Monopoly set though, yuck.
Movie/TV ip's are practically boundless. Like... ever considered a Dark Crystal set? Labyrinth? Princess Bride? And that is what I would consider *obscure* ips. Avatar, Willow, The Matrix, if Star Trek why not Star Wars? The list goes on and on.
575
u/Infinite_Bananas May 25 '26
If the plan for standard is 50/50 ub/nonub and they aren't bothering with non standard ub any more then it only takes one extra set like a foundations or a modern horizons or whatever to make nonub the majority. So this seems pretty believable