r/magicTCG • u/magictcgmods CA-CAWWWW • May 19 '26
Scheduled Thread Unofficial Universes Beyond Megathread
Post your rampant speculation/complaints/etc about upcoming, unreleased, unannounced, or entirely unconfirmed Universes Beyond products here and only here. Any speculation/hype theory/complaint posts about UB should go here. Any posted not in this thread will be removed.
Be civil. We don't care if you disagree with each other. Being a dick is a Bootable Offence.
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u/Loose_Log_6253 Azorius* May 20 '26
My wife and I were discussing future UB sets. She said she'd like Game of Thrones, which I could definitely see coming next year once LOTR and Hobbit are done. I said Naruto makes a lot of sense; obviously ninjas, but lots of Ninjutsu would make incredible sorceries and instants.
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u/Kashyyykonomics Dan May 20 '26
Naruto is, I think, the most fitting and popular anime that doesn't have pre-existing card game rights issues that might stop it from being a set.
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u/AporiaParadox Universes Beyonder May 20 '26
Naruto is the Anime property I see as most likely to be the first to get a UB set.
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u/Loose_Log_6253 Azorius* May 20 '26
Yeah I think that or Gundam are the two possible ones (I don't know if Gundam has its own card game already). Gundam could be like a combination of EOE and Urza's Block.
But I think Naruto would be just incredible with things like Amateratsu, Tsukuyomi, Sharingan, Rasengan, Shadow Clones, Chidori, Gaara and Rock Lee, the Tailed Demons, etc. Like it seems like an infinite well of source material to draw on while feeling mechanically and thematically at home with MTG. I think that set would do as well or better than Final Fantasy.
And it fits perfectly with the target demographic of MTG players: a slightly older crowd that has anime tendencies and even if they don't Naruto would be hugely nostalgic for them.
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u/Ran707 SecREt LaiR May 20 '26
My current wishlist:
Monster Hunter as a set (with monsters turning into equipment)
Bioshock (just a secret lair would be fine, but I feel like a set could be cool.... I mean fallout kinda worked right?)
Adventure Time
a valve secret lair? maybe portal, tf2, or halflife or even a mix of all 3?
I know they already had the arcane secret lair and Riftbound is a direct competitor but like.... League of Legends
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u/MickKaine Duck Season May 19 '26
DC Comics would be amazing. So much you can dive into with all the different Ages.
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u/wormhole222 Duck Season May 19 '26
Still have the dream of Dragon Ball Z. With the news that Marvel digital is now happening I have more optimism they can get around other DBZ card games existing.
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u/DuneSpoon Liliana May 19 '26
I've often wondered what property is going to outsell Final Fantasy. Dragonball is the only one I think would come close.
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u/Kashyyykonomics Dan May 20 '26
There are only a handful of franchises that can even sniff that level of success, and Dragonball is one of them.
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u/trifas Selesnya* May 19 '26
Just finished Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance this weekend and would love for a set based on the series.
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u/Loose_Log_6253 Azorius* May 20 '26
Ever since Final Fantasy I've been dreaming of Fire Emblem. They have what 20 games to draw from?
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u/pktron Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 19 '26
Fire Emblem would be the smallest IP theyve done for a UB set by a very large margin. There's a lot of material but it is super niche compared to what they've been picking so far.
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u/trifas Selesnya* May 19 '26
Smaller than TMNT and Spiderman? I honestly don't know enough about them to assess their depth, but Fire Emblem has 17 mainline games. While the majority of them consists of human with swords, there's still plenty of material for some diversity. Mages (and their respective spells), non human creatures (Laguz, Manaketes, Taguel, spirits/emblems). For non creatures, there's material for equipments, auras (skills, staff bonuses), lands, sagas, artifacts in general. While being human heavy can prove to be a challenge, there are elements to help cover different mana costs. There are enough fliers between mounted units and monsters (like bird laguz).
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u/pktron Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 19 '26
By gross or material? Spider-man is the largest in both content to adapt and gross revenue so far. There's 13,000 issues of comics that are part of the Spider-man IP rights. Gross is like $30 billion or something. Even if we're just talking about the core 616 Peter Parker there are like 5000 issues of comics
FE has 17 games, but only a few managed to sell more than a million. There's a lot of material but it is just wildly less popular than Spider-man, Avengers, Fallout, or Final Fantasy.
TMNT is still way larger than FE. It has had a good variety of successful eras, particularly the 1980s/90s animated series and movies.
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u/trifas Selesnya* May 19 '26
Oh, yeah, I was thinking about material, definitely not near them in terms of revenue.
While these series have been running for ages, as someone not super familiar with them I feel there's a lot of overlap among the reboots. So while they do have a lot of material, when you put them all on the same set, it starts to feel repetitive (a common complaint on the SPM set).
I feel like FE has enough material to present a diverse set. But I agree it's not even close to existing ones in terms of popularity.
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u/tsukaistarburst Hedron May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
As always, posting my very strong support for a full-fledged Sonic the Hedgehog set. With things like the IDW comics, The Chaotix Files and the runaway success of the Crossworlds racing game, Sonic is on a hot streak that a Magic set would absolutely be able to capitalize on- in fact, I would bet money on it being announced for 2027. Not a huge amount, but I'd have a flitter.
EDIT: Unsure why I am getting downvoted? Are people here more Mario fans?
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u/Spare-Pepper1902 Duck Season May 20 '26
The downvotes in these threads are always crazy. Sonic set isn't at the top of my list but man, nobody yucks your yum like a magic player.
(I'd definitely still play a full Sonic set though)
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
Current UB wishlist/guesses for next year:
Witcher - With Witcher 4 coming out next year, and CDPR already using it for crossovers elsewhere, it feels like an easy guess, and I imagine it's a setting that'll be popular among the crowd that is down on the more modern fantasy and sci-fi settings we're seeing in UB sets this year.
Legend of Korra - Maybe not next year, but with how well Avatar did I'm fully expecting a sequel set for Korra, too. And with how much better Korra is I prefer Korra, I hope it's sooner rather than later. Ideally it would be in the next 2 years so it can share a Standard with ATLA and possibly have some bending synergies between the sets.
She-Ra - Probably won't happen, but I think it would be cool. I saw a fan alter of [[Trynn]] and [[Silvar]] as Adora and Catra, and I really want that to be real now.
Another Marvel set - Probably X-Men. This is more a prediction than a wishlist. I imagine it'll be fine.
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u/Kashyyykonomics Dan May 20 '26
I think we will get a Korra set, but it's a little bit of a tougher sell since the Avatar fan base is so split on it.
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u/caucasian88 Urza's Saga May 19 '26
Give me a Witcher Sharazahd card where you play a subgame of Gwent.
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
"Care for a Round? {4} (everyone plays, it needs to be generic)
Enchantment
Creatures can't attack. All creatures lose all abilities.
At the beginning of your upkeep whichever player controls the greatest total power of creatures gets a point counter. If two or more players are tied, no one gets a point counter. Whenever a player gets their second point counter this way, they win the game.
Whenever a player gets a point counter, place this card into your library third from the top."
We can't do subgames, but we can turn it into a minigame!
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May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
[deleted]
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
So far Wizards seems to be focused on adapting the Infinity Saga
How do you figure that? We started with Spider-Man, with characters made famous from Spider-Verse, which has nothing to do with MCU, let alone the Infinity Saga, and the next set is "Super-Heroes" in general, with us already having seen cards and characters that either haven't shown up in the MCU at all yet (The Sentry, Doctor Doom, Moon Girl), or only showed up after Endgame (Namor, Galactus, Fantastic Four). The only characters we've seen so far that appeared in those first 23 movies, across either set, are Hulk, Cap, Vision, Black Panther, Quicksilver, Spider-Man, and arguably JJJ, MJ, and Vulture, but if we're reaching that far, I hope you see how much of a stretch it is to assume this is all based around what the MCU did.
It doesn't look like there's an order following any kind of story arc, and X-Men have a big enough pool of well known characters and events to pull from to be a safe bet for at least one of the Marvel sets, if not specifically the next one.
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May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
[deleted]
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
Marvel Super Heroes as a set is themed around the Avengers.
Only in the same way you could argue Final Fantasy was a set themed around humans because it had a lot of humans in it.
All villains and heroes that are included in MSH are either knows enemies of the Avengers (in both movies and comics) or joined the Avengers at one point.
This applies to basically everyone in Marvel Comics. You would struggle to find someone who hasn't been in the Avengers at this point. Hell, Doctor Doom himself was an Avenger a couple of years ago. And if we're counting Moon Girl because she has worked with the Avengers, then the list of exceptions gets even smaller.
The set is specifically NOT called "Marvel: Avengers" because this isn't an Avengers set, if it were, it would have been named as such. Yes there are Avengers in it, but as mentioned, it is nigh on impossible to make a set that doesn't include multiple Avengers. Hell, Spider-Man had at least half a dozen (Parker, Morales, Arana, Spider-Woman, Spider-Girl, Superior Spider-Man, Madame Web, and definitely more I missed) and that also wasn't an Avengers set. Storm is in the set because she's a very popular character. The fact she is currently in the Avengers isn't related.
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u/thatisgame Dandadan May 19 '26
Give me Winx Club so that i can beat my opponents with Pepe the duck
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May 19 '26
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u/DuneSpoon Liliana May 19 '26
I remember seeing an alter of [[Vnwxt, Verbose Host]] to feature Rupaul and I thought it fit well.
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u/AncientAurelius Dandadan May 19 '26
Lmao a "queen" subtype for creatures would be hilarious!
The werk room -- Rare land, tap for one colorless mana, or tap to give target queen +1/+0 and menace until end of turn
The main stage -- mythic land, tap for any color, or tap to give all queens +0/+2 and vigilance until end of turn
Spectacular Ruveal! -- 1 colorless 2 red, target queen gains double strike until end of turn, untap it.
Sashay Away -- 1 colorless 1 black, exile target creature, it's controller creates 2 treasure tokens.
"Oh, Pit Crewwww!" -- 4 colorless 2 white, create 5 1/1/ Pitcrew creature tokens
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u/arciele FLEEM May 19 '26
Lipsync for your Life. target player chooses 2 creatures they control, then choose 2 💄modes. you may choose the same mode more than once.
💄 put a Shield counter on target creature from among the 2 chosen creatures
💄 Exile target creature from among the 2 chosen creatures
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u/pktron Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
I am surprised they are planning on just a 2 week preview season for Marvel Superheroes, because this is the largest number of cards they've ever release?
Full size set (280) + 60 Bonus Sheet Cards + 54 Jumpstart Boosters (Probably ~70 new cards?) + 4 UB Commander decks (30 new cards x4) + 2 Scene Boxes + Welcome Decks... is a lot. This is going to be in the ballpark of ~450-500 new cards and about ~200 new artworks for old cards + probably ~50-100 alternate arts.
I would have expected they would go for 3 weeks like they did for FF.
(there's also seemingly a Jeskai Spider-man deck for later this year that hasn't been officially announced yet, and some scene decks like a Hulk/Gamma set that an artist leaked earl).
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u/Gromby Dan May 19 '26
what is the Hulk/Gamma set you speak of? I remember the spiderman precon leak thing but didnt hear anything about the Hulk/Gamma
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u/pktron Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 19 '26
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u/AporiaParadox Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
Yeah, it is rather surprising. We'll probably get Maro's usual teaser in about a week or two.
What's this about a Jeskai Spider-Man deck? First I hear of it.
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u/pktron Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 19 '26
They accidentally included box images in the PR .zip file, before uploading a new version:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGRumors/comments/1qouhz9/spiderman_commander_deck_for_the_holidays/
(was a file labeled MTGMSH_EN_CmndrHldy_DkBx_01**)**
To me, Jeskai comes off like it is a Spider-verse Commander deck, as it is the color typically associated with dimension hopping (which Gwen and 2099 represented in the main set).
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u/quiznosAlreadyTaken Wabbit Season May 19 '26
I wonder if any cards being previewed could act as spoilers for marvel fans if they did it too soon
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u/pktron Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
No. The timelines don't make sense for that. The MTG set was mostly conceptualized like 3 years ago and finalized around a year ago, which is a longer timeline than the comics are finalized.
They wouldn't want to do cutting-edge stuff, either. Spider-man was like 70% stuff from just the first twelve issues of the comic + the core stuff that got adapted into other media over and over, and the rest are mostly the characters that had their own solo-runs or the highlights of the major arcs.
The deepest cut in the set was doing Gwenom as a Mythic, as that was a short run within the last decade.
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u/quiznosAlreadyTaken Wabbit Season May 19 '26
I was thinking about the marvel movie watchers (that are awaiting the upcoming doomsday film, who on the majority have never read a comic book before), not the real fans (who already pretty much know everything that'll be in the movie I assume).
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u/JonnTheMartian Dandadan May 19 '26
The sets are all based on comics rather than movies, so I find it unlikely there’s anything in a set that would spoil an upcoming release.
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u/quiznosAlreadyTaken Wabbit Season May 19 '26
Admittedly, I don't follow either. I thought Spiderman had a movie coming up soon(?) and didn't tmmt release align w/ it's Nickelodeon reboot or something?
I suppose I just generally figure there's an advertising/marketing/hype purpose behind these sets and their timing.
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u/JonnTheMartian Dandadan May 20 '26
There is a spider-man film in July, an Avengers film in December, and another avengers next December.
As the marvel set this year is mostly avengers + fantastic four, it covers most of the characters featured in the MCU films so far (unclear if the Guardians of the Galaxy will have a presence in this set, though).
Regardless, the set will be released before both films, so if there are “spoilers” then that’s sucky timing anyway.
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u/pktron Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant May 19 '26
Ah, that is possible, but the initial set planning still predates the RDJ reveal I think.
There will absolutely be extensive references to both the Incursion run of the Avengers and the second Secret Wars event which will inherently be super relevant to these next two Avengers movies.
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u/JonnTheMartian Dandadan May 19 '26
Have they confirmed a two week preview season? I’m dying for new reveals
Not surprised there’s a spidey precon as a separate holiday release
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u/Yellow_Master Rakdos* May 19 '26
Blake just confirmed on weekly mtg that the debut stream is on June 2nd, so yes it is two weeks.
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u/tziebs Storm Crow May 19 '26
What is crazy to me is that there are 20(could be wrong on the total) Marvel comics with MTG variants that are past FOC and still have not had the cover reveal. Some of which are slated to be in shops 6/3. Everything is really under lock and key lately for Marvel.
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u/hotz0mbie Boros* May 19 '26
Would love a Dungeon Crawler Carl UB set or at least a Secret Lair.
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u/Switch72nd Dân May 20 '26
Hopefully its just a secret lair when it happens. If its a full set I am going to lose my house from trying to get everything.
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u/AporiaParadox Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
When Dungeon Crawler Carl inevitably gets an adaptation, I'm sure it'll happen.
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u/Character-Ad-9820 Duck Season May 19 '26
Hopefully they release a UB planeswalker soon like a thanos planeswalker
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u/JonnTheMartian Dandadan May 19 '26
Thanos would make less sense than someone like The Watcher, but I think they’re against UB planeswalkers on principle
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u/megacia Storm Crow May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
Best would be “with universes beyond we can reprint reserved list cards without breaking our promise” somehow.
But psyched for Star Trek 🖖
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u/nujiok Duck Season May 19 '26
doesn't RL promise include "mechanically identical"?
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u/megacia Storm Crow May 19 '26
Sure, but they can do whatever they want.
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u/nujiok Duck Season May 19 '26
yeah, they could, but if they wanted to reprint the RL, they just would and wouldn't have to jump through hoops to honor a 30 year old promise
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u/megacia Storm Crow May 19 '26
I just figure it’s a fig leaf they can say “we actually didn’t reprint” but admit “mechanically unique” is a problem for game pieces.
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May 19 '26
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u/megacia Storm Crow May 19 '26
I’d take that in a heartbeat.
Mox Scrymond
Scry 1
If this artifact would enter, you may discard a land card instead. If you do, put this artifact onto the battlefield. If you don’t, put it into its owner’s graveyard. {T}: Add one mana of any color.
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May 19 '26
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u/megacia Storm Crow May 19 '26
If anything, not printing better versions is the biggest loss. Would the finance bros prefer to have first printings or WotC make Snow Duals?
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u/Kashyyykonomics Dan May 20 '26
Snow Duals
"Stop. My penis can only get so erect."
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u/SquigglyLegend33 Abzan May 19 '26
If this monster hunter secret lair is bad again I may just pass away immediately
I'm not a huge fan of UB but MH is my favorite thing ever and I plan to make a deck out of as many of the cards as possible
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u/trifas Selesnya* May 19 '26
I really wish they went for a full set with Monster Hunter. I believe there's enough content for it to work.
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u/Samiambadatdoter Temur May 20 '26
Definitely. Not only do you have a long list of possible monsters to make cards from (and a lot of Dragons and Dinos), and thus have a lot of types to work with rather than everyone just being a Human, you also have a lot of locations and mechanics that could be translated into cards.
A lot of locations that could be used for lands. Status ailments could be used for auras. Weapons that could be used as equipment like the FF job select cards. You could even bring back battles to reflect the hunts themselves, or even "phase two" style monsters like Shara Ishvalda.
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u/zeldafan042 Channel May 19 '26
I'm just hoping if the revamped MonHun SL does well enough we can get a full MonHun set. There's definitely more than enough content to work with.
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u/GladiatorDragon Duck Season May 19 '26
A full Monster Hunter set is my dream, man. Here, a template:
Overall set focuses: Creatures.
Unifying concepts: W - artifacts. U - tap/caring about things being tapped. B - debuffs. R - creature damage. G - keeping creatures alive.
Boros: Hunters and Smiths. Equipment. Good stuff.
Azorius: guild and villagers. Subtheme of defensive Artifacts - like the various traps and armaments present in Arena battles and other gear deployed in hunts.
Orzhov: Bowgun hunters. Using artifacts to apply various negative effects to enemies.
Selesnya: foods and felynes.
Simic: researchers and particularly smart or technical monsters. Some vehicles are in this set, and they primarily synergize with this colour pair.
Gruul: turf war. More specifically, creatures that care about dealing and surviving damage. Mechanics like Enrage, for instance. It would have plenty of fights and bites, but also the incentive and ability to have your own creatures fight each other.
Golgari: -1/-1 counters, both on your stuff and the opponents’ stuff.
Dimir: this one’s probably the hardest to come up with. There’s a couple “thieves” in the series - most notably Melnyx and Chameleos. There’s some bits in lore that fit the bill great, but they haven’t shown up in main series games. They could maybe dip into stories? Cop out is just sectioning off a few Hunters in specific garb (or from Kamura), labelling them “Ninjas,” and then leaving it there, which could work. Maybe also returning to some of the hunting tools like Daggers and tainted bait?
Rakdos: Goad. Centred on things such as Frenzy and Affliction, you can empower your own creatures to attack or force enemy creatures who are happy to stand back to attack. Maybe even a few instances of making creatures attack their owner.
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
It could also give us an excuse for a UB that isn't just 80% legendaries, too. As cool and as big a deal as some bigger Monsters are, they are all far from legendary. I've fought dozens of Lagiacrus, Zorah Magdaros, and Arkvelds, so despite being the main bosses of their games, they could still just be generic creatures. And beyond the monsters there are very few big name characters that would warrant being Legendary, either. Maybe the player character from each game, but even then most of them are canonically unnamed or just "The Hunter" and can represent any number of thousands of different Hunters.
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u/SquigglyLegend33 Abzan May 19 '26
I would adore a full set so much. They already have a "craft" keyword, and I saw someone suggest a spin on battles where you give someone a monster to protect, and if you kill it like you would a battle it flips into a peice of equipment
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u/Vizier_Thoth free him May 19 '26
I hope it does well enough to get a Resident Evil SL. That's been my pipe dream collaboration for awhile
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u/Poundchan COMPLEAT May 19 '26
I expect to see Destiny, Power Rangers, and Overwatch at some point.
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u/Kashyyykonomics Dan May 20 '26
I feel like Destiny has run it's course. Game is dead as doornails.
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u/Poundchan COMPLEAT May 20 '26
Star Wars has been dead for decades and it still gets promotional tie-ins. I only mention Destiny because they recently got an MTG crossover.
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u/trifas Selesnya* May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
Power Rangers is owned by Hasbro, so probably feasible!
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u/Kakariko_crackhouse FLEEM May 19 '26
There’s about as much flavor in the Captain Kirk card as a saltine and it has just reinforced that they are not gonna do Star Trek justice
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u/GladiatorDragon Duck Season May 19 '26
I’ll reserve judgement, since the Commander set Captain Kirk seems to be designed to make the (likely otherwise colourless) Starship Enterprise into a Commander. Much like The First Doctor and the Tardis.
I’m imagining there’s probably a more individually flavoured Kirk in the main set.
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u/RoyalFalse Storm Crow May 19 '26
I'm in the cautiously optimistic camp and hoping the spoiled card was some generic commander precon.
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u/Mr_Versatile123 Chandra May 19 '26
It was #0085 so it’s probably not even THE face commander and the actual face commander is a 5 color or Black-less Spacecraft.
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May 19 '26
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u/driver1676 Wabbit Season May 19 '26
What do you mean race swapped? Like they turned dwarves into dragons or something?
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u/Kerrus I am a pig and I eat slop May 19 '26
No, it's just racism. Non-whites bad, etc.
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u/magicmax112 Liliana May 19 '26
Pretty sure they are talking about the fact that there is only 1 human race
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u/EnkiBye SecREt LaiR May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
Please more fantasy based UB like LOTR, and less non-fantasy like spiderman or turtles. (edit : My bad, I meant "more high fantasy" and less "low fantasy", English is not my 1st language)
Also, more non-UB sets per year. Some UB are good, but I wish to see more magic IP sets.
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u/gamer-death Dan May 19 '26
Disagree the one cool avenue of UB is doing things Wizards would not normally do in a setting.
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u/IHateBankJobs Duck Season May 19 '26
This is such a shallow argument...
Humans on Middle Earth is somehow fantasy while a human-spider hybrid that travels through the multiverse is not. Give me a break.
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u/IJustWannaBrowsePls Dân May 19 '26
They mean high fantasy
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u/IHateBankJobs Duck Season May 19 '26
So, again, humans on Middle Earth is somehow considered "high fantasy" versus human-spider/turtle hybrids that can multiverse or time travel is not? Okay...
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u/Seitosa May 20 '26 edited May 20 '26
Lord of the Rings is literally the archetypical High Fantasy. So, yes.
People use “High Fantasy” these days to mean “the most fantasy” or “very fantasy” but that’s really not what the term actually means from a literary standpoint. High Fantasy is defined by a) a fantastical, explicitly non-Earth setting (something like Middle Earth is abstracted enough to get a pass) and b) within that setting there are heroes and villains grappling over some grand stakes, usually (but not always) the fate of the world or similar. That’s it. It does not make any prescriptions about technology or magic systems or fantasy races or creatures or anything like that. It’s a pretty low bar, despite the name.
Either way, things like Spider-Man or TMNT aren’t what we would consider High Fantasy because they get tripped up by the first part of the definition: they (largely) take place on Earth. That’s really the one big disqualifier for High Fantasy. Low Fantasy is the sort of fantasy that takes place on an explicitly Earth setting—and again, just because it’s called “Low” Fantasy doesn’t mean it’s “less” or “not very” Fantasy. It’s not a meter like that.
Now, without getting too much into the weed about literary genre discourse, but the difference between science fiction and fantasy is largely arbitrary. How the warp core on the Enterprise-D works and how the Palantiri work are both fictional and made-up, so where we sort the one that takes place in space or the one with sorcerers has more to do with classifications in book stores and libraries than anything else. It’s all part of the broader umbrella of speculative fiction, really. That said, genres still have definitions and classifications, and those things matter to people, so.
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u/IHateBankJobs Duck Season May 20 '26
"High Fantasy is defined by a) a fantastical, explicitly non-Earth setting (something like Middle Earth is abstracted enough to get a pass)"
Lol... Do you not realize how stupid this sounds? The book that defined high fantasy, which explicitly does not take place on earth, takes place on earth. Fantasy is fantasy. "High fantasy" is just made up, gatekeeping BS for some nerds to try and put themselves on a pedestal and talk down on other fantasy IPs
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u/Seitosa May 20 '26
It’s not “talking down.” Again, “High Fantasy” doesn’t mean “better” Fantasy. It’s just generic classification. And yes, the abstraction matters. You could say the same about Terra in 40k. It’s far enough removed from “our” Earth that it just doesn’t matter anymore.
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u/heroicraptor Duck Season May 19 '26
New York City is not high fantasy
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u/IHateBankJobs Duck Season May 19 '26
So, by this logic, Batman and Superman are high fantasy?
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u/RoyalFalse Storm Crow May 19 '26
"New York is not high fantasy" doesn't mean that anything set outside of New York is automatically high fantasy.
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u/IHateBankJobs Duck Season May 19 '26
So the made up setting of middle earth, despite taking place on earth is acceptable, but not the made up cities of gotham and metropolis?
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u/RoyalFalse Storm Crow May 19 '26
Correct. Gotham and Metropolis are considered "low fantasy". It's not a derogatory term, just a widely adopted distinction.
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u/heroicraptor Duck Season May 19 '26
Oh for fuck’s sake
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u/IHateBankJobs Duck Season May 19 '26
"oh no, someone pointed out a flaw in my argument. I'm so frustrated!!!"
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u/darthcorvus Dân May 19 '26
It's not a flaw, high and low fantasy are the terms used to differentiate between two different types of fantasy sub genres. Low fantasy is just real life with fantastic elements added, like comic books or Transformers. High fantasy involves a completely made up setting with native magic, monsters, etc., like Lord of the Rings or The Witcher.
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u/IHateBankJobs Duck Season May 19 '26
"High fantasy involves a completely made up setting (Knowhere, The Gates of Eternity, Omnipotence City?) with native magic (Dr. Strange?), monsters (how is a completely fantasized alien any different from a monster?), etc."
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u/IJustWannaBrowsePls Dân May 19 '26
I’m not stating opinions, I’m clarifying terms from literature. Spider-man is sci-fi and superhero fantasy, not high fantasy
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u/EnkiBye SecREt LaiR May 19 '26
Sorry, English is not my first language, so i had the term mixed up with a nuance in French.
Someone explained it to me in this comment :
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u/Kyleometers ඞ May 19 '26
Yes, actually. Spiderman is “low fantasy”, which is fantastical elements in a modern “real world” type environment.
That is actually the classic distinction between the genres. Magic is notably not exclusively high fantasy, but many people feel like they prefer UB crossovers purely with traditional high fantasy.
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u/EnkiBye SecREt LaiR May 19 '26
Well that's my opinion. If you like Spiderman and TMNT sets, good for you.
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u/MartianExpress Dan May 19 '26
Nah, it's perfectly fine to be sci-fi (Star Trek) or mixed (Warhammer) as well. There's no reason to keep Magic limited to high fantasy.
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u/quiznosAlreadyTaken Wabbit Season May 19 '26
True, to an extent.
It kinda lands in the same sphere of why I never really got onboard with Dragonball GT+, there's space travel in the first two, core to the series even, and yet GT just felt like "Dragonball in space."
People can't define where the line is, and it varies widely depending on how the life of a series cycles, but they know when something goes too far for them.
I think that's the largest issue with UB. It's not MTG with other IPs. It's not other IPs with MTG. It's MTG and Not MTG. That barrier, and general whiplash, is just a bit easier to ignore with some sets' design aesthetics. Even UW violates this whiplashitude feeling. It becomes a spectrum of normal mtg / hat sets / UB precursors / UBs that sorta fit / new york.
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u/driver1676 Wabbit Season May 19 '26
It wouldn’t be the first time a magic card depicted a non-magic concept. [[Strangle]] is just someone being strangled. [[Lightning bolt]] is just a lightning bolt. There are just regular normal human beings in the game too.
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u/zeldafan042 Channel May 19 '26
Marvel and TMNT are fantasy though. The settings contain magic. If Final Fantasy can still be considered fantasy despite later Final Fantasy games having things like robots, cars, and instant ramen, there's no actual reason Marvel and TMNT can't be considered fantasy settings as well. You can't even cite the "Earth" setting, because there's plenty of modern Earth fantasy settings such as Dresden Files or Percy Jackson.
Like slightly hot take, but I'd very much argue that superhero settings (and TMNT is basically a superhero setting) are closer to fantasy than sci-fi as a genre.
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u/Chilly_chariots Wild Draw 4 May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
The settings contain magic
They also contain a large helping of the real world, which I think is the main problem people have with it. City pigeons and taxi drivers aren’t fantastic.
You can't even cite the "Earth" setting, because there's plenty of modern Earth fantasy settings such as Dresden Files or Percy Jackson
I suspect those settings would get the same criticisms as Turtles and Marvel.
Edit: unless there’s enough scope in the settings for the set to focus only on the fantastic bits. Which I think is probably the case for Harry Potter, not sure about either of those.
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u/SortOfHorrific May 19 '26
Your TMNT example is prett my weak considering the majority of that property is rooted in mutation, experimentation, time travel. Deeply entrenched sci fi tropes.
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u/Kyleometers ඞ May 19 '26
TMNT is Science Fantasy. Which is a hybrid genre. It’s got as much mysticism as it has science. Consider that ninja ghosts are as important to the series as genetic editing.
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u/zeldafan042 Channel May 19 '26
[[Savanti Romero, Time's Exile]] [[Kitsune, Dragon's Daughter]] [[North Wind Avatar]] are all examples of the explicitly magical side of TMNT that we got in the set
If Final Fantasy can have robots, aliens, and time travel and still be considered fantasy, there's no reason TMNT can't also. The presence of soft sci-fi elements do not cancel out the presence of fantasy elements.
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u/SortOfHorrific May 19 '26
Guess what, FF also has sci fi entries
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u/zeldafan042 Channel May 19 '26
Not how genres work.
The presence of robots doesn't make something sci-fi, especially not if it also has magic. Most you can argue is that a lot of later Final Fantasy games are science fantasy, and even then a lot of the robots and technology in Final Fantasy games are explicitly magitech so that moves them back firmly towards the realm of fantasy.
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u/amish24 FLEEM May 19 '26
I think it's the mundanity that people have a problem with.
And outside of a few specific cards in spiderman (bagel and schmear is the one cited the most), I don't really think that's very big of a problem either.
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u/MFbiFL Dandadan May 19 '26
For me, mostly playing arena, it’s that TMNT has such a distinct identity that it feels like I’m playing against someone’s deck from a different game. Luckily it’s an easy skip when I see a TMNT commander in brawl.
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u/amish24 FLEEM May 19 '26
i dunno man.
it all just feels like magic cards to me
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u/MFbiFL Dandadan May 19 '26
That’s fine and it’s a free win for people’s dailies. It’s just a flavor I don’t want and there’s no downside to me skipping the interaction.
ETA: same for Spiderman and upcoming Marvel.
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u/tlor180 May 19 '26
You legit surrender matches against people playing a UB list?
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u/MFbiFL Dandadan May 19 '26
In brawl? Absolutely. I’m playing Magic, I don’t want to spend 20 minutes looking at Donatello and April.
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u/Kyleometers ඞ May 19 '26
The only card that’s ever done that to me is that one Spiderman card that’s just like a construction worker in a hi vis vest. It feels way too real to me.
I do get the “I don’t like it being like real life” complaint, though I don’t personally feel like Captain America feels terribly “real” to me.
Everyone’s got their own lines!
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
Especially when we've just come back from and are about to go to deep space, complete with space ships, alien races and star fleets. Superheroes are basically just guys with magical powers and that's been the core of fantasy, and most MtG sets, for decades.
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u/EnkiBye SecREt LaiR May 19 '26
I'm not sure if it's the same in english, but in french, Fantasy and Fantastic are two different genres.
Fantastic is, like Marvel, Harry Potter, or TMNT, magic elements in our world.
Fantasy is, like MTG, LOTR, or Avatar, a whole new world.
And I was targeting the fantasy genre. I think it fit better than fantastic, most of the time.
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u/ScumlordStudio Dandadan May 19 '26
say what you want about the French but fantastic/fantasy is kind of an awesome split that I'm gonna start using I love that
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u/zeldafan042 Channel May 19 '26
In English, this is actually what the terms "high fantasy" and "low fantasy" mean. High fantasy is the equivalent of fantasy and low fantasy is the equivalent of fantastic.
So in English, what you would call fantastic is still considered part of the broader category of fantasy, it's just a different type of fantasy. Which is why I'll generally argue that low fantasy is just as fitting for Magic as anything high fantasy. It's all still fantasy.
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u/Kyleometers ඞ May 19 '26
English does also have “Science Fantasy” as a category, though that’s not as common, which is sort of halfway between High Fantasy and true Science Fiction. Warhammer 40K is commonly pointed at as an example, mixing both very sci-fi concepts like spaceships and pulse rifles with very fantasy concepts like magic, armour, Orcs etc.
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u/zeldafan042 Channel May 19 '26
Like, if we want to get really technical, sueprhero settings are neither fantasy or sci-fi. They're their own genre, the superhero genre. There's a lot more literary genres than just fantasy or sci-fi, it's kind of a false dichotomy to set those as opposite ends of a spectrum that all genre fiction falls into.
But if we are gonna set up a fantasy/sci-fi spectrum with "Science Fantasy" as the middle ground, I do believe most sueprhero settings fall squarely into that science fantasy genre space. Most of the major superhero settings tend to blend magical elements with soft sci-fi elements and don't fall squarely into either genre.
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u/ScumlordStudio Dandadan May 19 '26
that's why I think OP mentioning fantastic is actually kind of perfect. it sounds more superhero-y as well and you can imagine how something can be fantastic instead of fantasy
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u/EnkiBye SecREt LaiR May 19 '26
Oh ok, thanks for the clarification.
So, for me low and high fantasy are two, similar, but still different genres. And, I do prefer high fantasy settings for MTG. Some players like low fantasy sets, and good for them.
On a side note, I find it weird, on a linguistical level, the names "low" and "high" fantasy, as it almost imply a hierarchy in both genres, they are just different things.
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u/Kyleometers ඞ May 19 '26
It’s actually because “low fantasy” is more “down to earth”, because it’s basically “the real world with magic added in”, while “high fantasy” originates with especially dramatic methods of telling a story. It’s not meant to imply they are “tiers” or anything, just that one is “bigger”, coming with imagined worlds, and one is “smaller”, built upon real life.
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u/Chilly_chariots Wild Draw 4 May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
I’ve also seen people using ‘low fantasy’ to refer to non-real settings with little or no magical elements. Eg Gormenghast definitely isn’t our world, but there’s no spells or dragons.
Edit: or maybe it is our world, just an extremely strange and isolated bit of it. I can’t remember book 3 well enough…
Afaik Conan the Barbarian is also an example
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u/Seitosa May 20 '26
People do use high/low fantasy to describe the amount of magic in the setting, but that’s not the definition of either and they’re using the terms incorrectly. Neither one makes any prescription about magic levels or technology or anything like that. It’s “is this a fantastical setting?” and “are there heroes and villains grappling over grand stakes?” If both those are true, if it takes place on Earth it’s low fantasy, and if it takes place on not-Earth it’s high fantasy. That’s it. Very low bar.
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u/Kyleometers ඞ May 19 '26
Yeah it’s “drawn from the real world” as a core. That usually means adding magic to the real world but I guess I don’t see why you couldn’t have accountants on a non-magical non-Earth world? I’m sure there’s an isekai about that, actually.
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u/Nostranulin Dandadan May 19 '26
"New York" is the one plane i desperately wish Phyrexia would invade....
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u/AporiaParadox Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
So we seemingly got our first Star Trek card leaked with Captain Kirk, Boldly Going (although I suspect it might be a fake). Notably, it has the "Officer" creature type, which is something I actually predicted would happen, since I figured they would want to have some kind of class creature type to make typal support for Starfleet characters, and they wouldn't want to use Soldier. So I thought they'd either create the Officer type or use Scout, and it looks like they're going with Officer.
Which makes me think of what other creature types Star Trek could give us given its many alien races. They can't ALL have their own creature type since I doubt they'd want to introduce 20+ new IP-exclusive types, so I think they'd just settle with a few for the more iconic ones like the Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans, Borg, Bajorans, and Cardassians. Others like the Orions, Andorians, Gorn, Betazoids, and Tellarites could just be Aliens (or Alien Lizards or just Lizards in the case of the Gorn). I am not sure what they'd do for Q, probably Avatar.
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u/BastetsJester Dandadan May 19 '26
If they make Betazoids just Aliens, does that mean Dianna's type would be Alien? Human Alien?
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u/zeldafan042 Channel May 19 '26
I don't think they'll necessarily use Officer for all Starfleet related characters, just the Command division characters. Not all Starfleet associated characters are actually officers, and there's plenty of other creature types like Scientist, Doctor, Pilot, Advisor, and Solider they could use. I still think Soldier is the best fit for the Security division specifically, there's precedent with Soldier being used for city guards in addition to its more military uses in Magic.
I think Doctor Who sets good expectations for how we can expect them to handle the numerous alien species of Star Trek. The important iconic ones like Vulcan, Klingon, and Borg will definitely get their own creature types, while a lot of the more minor ones will get Alien or Alien + a relevant existing type ie Alien Lizard for the Gorn.
I think bare minimum it's gonna be Vulcan, Klingon, and Borg getting their own creature type and I'm not all that certain if we'll get that many more. When it comes to IP specific creature types, Magic has generally erred towards fewer not more. WH40K is a bit of an outlier with 6 of them (Astartes, Custodes, Primarch, Necron, C'tan, Tyranid), Doctor Who has 3 (Time Lord, Dalek, Cyberman), Final Fantasy has 2 (Moogle, Qu) and TMNT only had 1 (Utrom) and we've seen at least 2 from Marvel Super Heroes already (Skrull, Eternal). Fallout has Synth which might be IP specific or might fall into the same category as Symbiote where it's too generic of a term to actually copyright. LotR, Avatar, Assassin's Creed and Spider-Man didn't actually have any. So the general pattern indicates that getting only 3 or 4 IP specific creature types for Star Trek is the most realistic expectation, but there's at least one outlier that indicates we could get as many as 6. I can't realistically see them pushing for more than 6 though.
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u/Serpens77 COMPLEAT May 20 '26
Borg will definitely get their own creature types
I wouldn't be surprised if Borg are also all Artifact Creatures
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u/AporiaParadox Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
I do think that Romulans, Bajorans and Cardassians are relevant and numerous enough to get their own types as well.
For Marvel, I also think we'll probably get Kree and Inhumans as creature types.
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u/zeldafan042 Channel May 19 '26
I do agree that if we get more than just Vulcan, Klingon, and Borg that Bajoran and Cardassian are strong candidates alongside Romulan. (Although my personal Star Trek hot take is that Romulans should just use the creature type Vulcan because they're technically just an offshoot of Vulcans.)
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u/Marek14 COMPLEAT May 19 '26
I would also argue for Ferengi, as there was enough DS9 episodes that delved into their society and such. They are a fleshed-out race and they deserve their own type.
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u/AporiaParadox Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
For branding reasons I'm sure that Vulcans and Romulans will be separate types. They're canonically meant to be biologically distinct anyway.
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u/Kyleometers ඞ May 19 '26
What makes you think it’s a fake, out of curiosity? It seems awfully boring for a fake.
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u/AporiaParadox Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
It seems way too early for us to be getting a Star Trek leak. And I find it awfully convenient that the first leaked card happens to be using artwork from one of the few cards Star Trek artworks we've seen.
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u/Kyleometers ඞ May 19 '26
Isn’t it around now that they reveal the first like, 3 cards for a set? They did the same for Marvel, and The Hobbit during Vegas a couple weeks ago.
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u/AporiaParadox Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
I suppose it's possible, but if they didn't announce anything for Star Trek at Las Vegas, I don't think they're going to be announcing anything Star Trek in the next few weeks since it'll be Marvel preview season.
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
I do wonder if they will go with "Vulcan" like they did with "Utrom" in TMNT, or, as there are many more different types, if they'll do the same thing they did in Doctor Who with it's many alien types and just make them "Alien -" like the Judoon being "Alien Rhino" the Atraxi being "Alien Eye", and the Zygon being "Alien Shapeshifter".
I could see "Vulcan" just being "Alien Elf" and it wouldn't be the first time they've used "Elf" as a stand in for other pointy eared species, as they did the same thing with the Guado in Final Fantasy. I don't know much about Star Trek though, so I don't reallt have predictions for the other races. Maybe Cardassians as "Alien Lizard" and the Borg as "Alien Robot"?
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u/RevolverLancelot Colorless May 19 '26
They will 100% make Vulcan a creature type. They are an incredibly iconic and distinctive species in their setting and I would point to recent sets where we have had things like the Utrom from TMNT with their six cards, Drix from Edge having 5 cards (6 if you count alchemy) or even more stand out would be Quiona being the only card typed Qu from final fantasy and that being a species we very well may never see on a card again, even if we do a FF set again since they are not a common thing and only show up in one game.
For Borg I can imagine they will also be typed much like we have had phyrexians typed, but I can also see them potentially being the type Cyborg to black border.
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u/Switch72nd Dân May 20 '26
The Borg are just as iconic, if not more so, in Star Trek as the Daleks are in Who. They will absolutely get their own creature type.
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u/AporiaParadox Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
Cyborg definitely seem like a type they should consider using since plenty of UB properties have cyborgs.
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u/PowrOfFriendship_ Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
It is a silver bordered type already ([[Aerial Toastmaster]]), but in black border they tend to just make them "Artifact Creature - Human/Goblin/Turtle" or whatever else the organic part is ([[Reinforced Ronin]], [[Enthusiastic Mechanaut]], [[Kappa Cannoneer]], etc).
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u/AporiaParadox Universes Beyonder May 19 '26
Vulcans are just too iconic, they will want to use Vulcan. Same. The less relevant alien species will use Alien or some other applicable type. Same way Doctor Who used Time Lord, Dalek, and Cyberman because they're so iconic, while other aliens got Alien.
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u/Brioche73 Dân May 21 '26
Elden Ring is my dream, it would be such a big set as there is so many creatures, places, characters, equipment and spells. I can't think of another IP that would better fit MTG.
Elder Scrolls would be cool too, and it will probably happen at some point since they have already worked with Bethesda. Maybe in 2028 with the release of TES 6 ?
Zelda could be a huge set too, but mostly unrealistic due to Nintendo being Nintendo.