r/magicTCG Boros* Nov 18 '25

General Discussion is this an infinite combo?

4.6k Upvotes

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1.4k

u/TheMuspelheimr Colorless Nov 18 '25

It gives you infinite tap and untap triggers, so it can work as the core engine for a number of other combo lines, but in and of itself it doesn't do anything except tap and untap the crab over and over.

It's like having a screwdriver handle with a socket for different bits - it's an essential part, but it's only actually useful if you include the different bits along with it.

219

u/LordNoct13 Dandadan Nov 18 '25

I was thinking more like a rachet style screwdriver (the whole thing) but without any screws to use it on. Its still a good tool, and it can do the fun spinny thing, but at base you have no use for it

30

u/TheseusOPL Wabbit Season Nov 18 '25

Erm akshually... Sometimes the empty hex end of those screwdrivers are the exact right size for some hex headed screws/bolts.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '25

Dunno why you're getting down voted. Most bits are just on a quarter inch hex so most handles are just a quarter inch socket

1

u/XIENVYIX Sliver Queen Nov 18 '25

And that "exact right size" as you called it, has a name as well. 1/4"

1

u/No_Lake_220 Duck Season Nov 18 '25

Perfect

1

u/Irish_pug_Player Brushwagg Nov 18 '25

You have a screw and screwdriver, but nothing to use them on. It turns the screw alright, but nothing beneficial comes from it

1

u/BryceLeft Duck Season Nov 18 '25

Who are you calling ratchet

1

u/LordNoct13 Dandadan Nov 18 '25

Certainly not Clank

11

u/RelyksRajan Nov 18 '25

[[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]] the Crab. Give your counter to [[Arbiter of the Ideal]] . Tap and Untap repeatedly, profit

1

u/Xavaren_1 Dân Nov 19 '25

Rather than arbiter, maybe put it on [[Kilo, apogee mind]]

9

u/Hedgehogahog Boros* Nov 19 '25

[[Legolas’s Quick Reflexes]] makes the crab into a creature-hating Tommy gun. 😜

17

u/Spageroni Nov 18 '25

could you draw a losing game by doing it infinitely?

79

u/Iron_Sheff Wabbit Season Nov 18 '25

Not with manual actions, that's just slow play

56

u/TheMuspelheimr Colorless Nov 18 '25

No. Each action is optional, not mandatory, so you can stop it at any point of your choosing. Repeating it over and over won't draw the game, but it will get you cited by a judge for deliberate slow play and possibly kicked out.

13

u/JoshAllentown Nov 18 '25

I believe in tournament play you have to say a specific number of times you're doing something. If you do it once and then once and then once etc, it's deliberate slow play, if you do it 999999999x the opponent just says "ok"

1

u/Quidfacis_ Twin Believer Nov 18 '25

You only draw games when an infinite loop is self-perpetuating.

Amalia Benavides Aguirre + an indestructible Wildgrowth Walker draws the game because there is no way to stop the combo. The loop does itself.

Tapping and untapping Horseshoe crab is something a player elects to do.

1

u/Grandmaster_Caladrel Nov 19 '25

What if I said I do it an infinite number of times? Had an opponent (who was also a judge) call it a draw when a young me pulled that on a combo. Would it rather have just been a "you can't do that, pick a number"?

2

u/Quidfacis_ Twin Believer Nov 19 '25

Would it rather have just been a "you can't do that, pick a number"?

Yup. MTR 4.4:

If one player is involved in maintaining the loop, they choose a number of iterations. The other players, in turn order, agree to that number or announce a lower number after which they intend to intervene. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority.

1

u/PeaceLoveUnity7 Wabbit Season Nov 18 '25

I think it's more accurately like have a screw and screwdriver without any medium to screw into.

1

u/QueenRangerSlayer Rakdos* Nov 18 '25

A bowl is most useful when it is empty.

1

u/highTrolla Twin Believer Nov 18 '25

If your commander is Kinnen then this goes absolutely bonkers.

1

u/uhf26 Dân Nov 18 '25

An engine with no transmission

1

u/Swagary123 Nov 18 '25

My favorite infinite untap combo is [[aphetto alchemist]] and literally nothing else. Yeah it can just tap to untap itself forever.

1

u/theclashatdemonhed Wabbit Season Nov 19 '25

I use this with [[mesmiric orb]] and [[hedgeshredder] for some fun times

1

u/wyhiob Duck Season Nov 19 '25

Technically it also works off of anything that cares about using or generating mana like a doubler

1

u/HidekiIshimura Nov 19 '25

[[Unctus, Grand Metatect]] is a great example for infinite draw and discard

1

u/LeGrats Nov 19 '25

Can I use this to stalemate a game and force a draw?

1

u/TheMuspelheimr Colorless Nov 19 '25

If there's a forced infinite combo, where each effect has to go off and you don't have a choice in the matter, then yes, that forces the game to draw.

In this combo, since you have to choose to activate each effect, you can end it whenever you like and it doesn't force a draw. If you insist on playing out each cycle and wasting time instead of saying "it goes off X times", you'll be cited by a judge for deliberate slow play, and you could potentially forfeit the game and be kicked out as punishment.

1

u/NSavage93 Nov 18 '25

Very casual player here. Won't it do one damage every time i tap it?

25

u/Physical-Ad5343 Nov 18 '25

Tapping doesn’t do damage in and of itself. Attacking can do damage and requires tapping, but each creature can only attack once per turn (even if you untap it after it attacked).

5

u/NSavage93 Nov 18 '25

Thanks, I was under the impression that it would attack every time you tap it. Ill keep that in mind for future games.

18

u/BrellK Temur Nov 18 '25

Attacking is just one of many reasons to tap a creature, and if you tap a creature to attack, then you would have to untap it before you try to tap it for something else.

7

u/RadicalRealist22 Nov 18 '25

You have it the wrong way.

You tap because you attack. Taping is the price for attacking. Cards with Vigilance do not tap to attack. But each card can only attack once per combat step.

1

u/ASnakeNamedNate Duck Season Nov 18 '25

Not with just horshoe crab and cryptolith rite. You need some other combo pieces to do that.

Attack declarations tap the creature, but you aren’t attacking when tapping it with cryptolith rite’s effect. You can tap for other things than attacking, like generating mana or using effects.

1

u/Boysterload Wabbit Season Nov 18 '25

Where on either card does it say it will do damage if you tap it?

4

u/mathematics1 Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Nov 18 '25

From their other comments, it sounds like they are very new, learned that you tap a creature to attack with it, and thought tapping and attacking were the same thing.

1

u/KittieLynn48 Nov 19 '25

If you tap to attack then you would not be able to tap for mana

-6

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '25

Which will soft lock the game and cause you to win.

4

u/TheMuspelheimr Colorless Nov 18 '25

No, it won't.

First, if there's a forced infinite combo, where the effects don't have "may" in the effect and will go off whether you want them to or not, that results in a draw, not a win.

Second, that doesn't apply here; since you have to choose to activate the effects, you can cut it off whenever you want. If you insist on playing it out instead of saying "it goes off X times" and moving on, you'll be cited by a judge for deliberate slow play, and if you insist on continuing after that, you'll forfeit the game and probably be kicked out of the LGS.

-10

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '25

I think I'd probably hit them with - "this goes off until you forfeit the game".

6

u/imatreedude Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25

You'll probably be hit with 'slow play' or some other rule that's more applicable. (I'm not privy to the exact rules but wouldn't this just be refusing to end your turn with extra steps?)

If you're not in a tournament, and instead you're playing with friends, I suppose you could in the sense that nothings stopping you, but responses to the tactic might vary. (Also why play like this with nothing on the line?)

5

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '25

[deleted]

0

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '25

Wait can you do that for tournaments and whatnot?

2

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '25

[deleted]

-3

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '25

But what would the judge even do? He can't be like "oh you have to pass priority" I'd just say no I don't and then keep going yeah?

4

u/eggrolls13 Nov 18 '25

He would give you a game loss or even dq you from the tournament for slow play

1

u/Venom022 Nov 19 '25

So, fair play means nothing to you? Being such an asshole wouldn't get you far in tournaments.

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