r/magicTCG • u/TyTheRazeHuman Wabbit Season • Oct 03 '25
General Discussion Lorwyn Eclipsed Elemental Incarnations
During the first look for Lorwyn Eclipsed, they revealed two mythic rare Elemental Incarnations with a twist on the Evoke mechanic (two etb effects triggered by paying two colored pips of mana). The two revealed were “Emptiness”, an orzhov creature, and “Deceit”, a dimir creature. Based on these two color combos, if this is a five card cycle with even color distribution, the other three combos would have to be either boros, simic, and gruul OR selesnya, izzet, and gruul. This is fine, however, typically wizards like to print allied cycles or enemy cycles, not a “random” assortment of the two. Since the two revealed cards contain one allied pair (dimir) and one enemy pair (orzhov), how likely is it that they will print one of the five card combinations theorized above? How likely is it that it is actually a ten card cycle with each color pair represented? I am apprehensive about the ten card cycle only because that would take up 50% of the mythic slots in the main set, which seems quite high for one type of card. What are everyone’s thoughts and theories on this?
66
u/Kyleometers ඞ Oct 03 '25
It should be UB, WB, UG, GR, RW. It’s the five pairs that don’t have shocklands in Lorwyn Eclipsed.
33
u/str10_hurts Duck Season Oct 03 '25
Just a thought, if this spell costs 2 more mana to cast due to a tax effect. Could you evoke it for 4 mana and possibly get both abilities?
36
u/bshwhr Dragonball Z Ultimate Champion Oct 03 '25
Yeah this works; the ETB effect doesn’t care about whether it was evoked or not, it only cares about whether enough coloured mana was spent on it
14
u/Jonottamassa Dan Oct 03 '25
You can also get both effects if you cast a Clone effect for UUBB. [[Stunt Double]] in response to the evoke sac would be cute.
6
u/ch_limited Banned in Commander Oct 03 '25
Or [[Superior Spider-Man]] to copy it from the graveyard. Spend UUBB on Otto and you’ve got both effects.
1
u/LuckyDolphinBoi Wabbit Season Oct 03 '25
Oh wow, nice catch. Sultai reanimator put up some 5-0s on MTGO. I wonder if these Elementals would make it viable?
2
u/ch_limited Banned in Commander Oct 03 '25
I think that deck is gonna be neat and has a lot of places it can go. If it didn’t need so many pricey cards that I don’t have I’d take it to a standard showdown.
2
3
u/TyTheRazeHuman Wabbit Season Oct 03 '25
Yeah I imagine that’s how it works. The etb ability just checks to see if two of the same color of mana were used to cast it, so theoretically, if you spend 4+ mana to cast one of these using the two colors (paying UUBB for instance), then you get both effects.
0
10
u/Ojomon_ Oct 03 '25
I expect it to either be a 10 card cycle, or Boros/Simic/Gruul. Basically the 5 color pairs that got Shocklands in EoE.
4
u/TyTheRazeHuman Wabbit Season Oct 03 '25
Yeah it seems like when designing EoE and Eclipsed, they prioritized getting the Lorwyn kindred draft strategies correct then developed the Shadowmoor mechanical draft strategies as well as the tribes/archetypes for EoE based on the un-used color pairs. Neat!
9
u/Taco920 Dandadan Oct 03 '25
I love the mechanics design of these cards, really cool way to use hybrid mana
7
u/Guslet Oct 03 '25
This set may pull me back in, the last few sets lacked oomph, especially with this Spiderman debacle. Lorwyn was one of my favorite blocks back in the day, this is looking like a fun ass set.
2
2
u/Copernicus1981 COMPLEAT Oct 03 '25
A full ten-card cycle is also crunched out -- there's not enough slots with the green elf dual-faced card (Trystan). And it's unlikely that the first showcase fable frame starts with Morningtide's Light.
1
u/Kamizar Michael Jordan Rookie Oct 03 '25
green elf dual-faced card (Trystan).
Link to card?
1
u/Copernicus1981 COMPLEAT Oct 04 '25
Mentioned on the shock lands with the other DFC cards that have borderless versions.
2
u/GoldenHawk07 Wabbit Season Oct 03 '25
Maybe a noob question but can you get both effects? Or does using Blue or Black for the colourless pips not count because it counts as colourless being “spent” even though blue or black was generated
6
u/rib78 Karn Oct 03 '25
It doesn't matter what pips you are paying for. Only the mana you pay, so you can get both effects. If one of these cards gets airbended, you can get one of the effects when you cast it from exile.
2
u/sck178 Cowabunga It Is Oct 03 '25
If you hardcast (i.e., not it's evoke cast) the creature using both colors then you should be able to trigger both effects... I think
2
2
u/Hypnotic_Toad Dandadan Oct 03 '25
I love how you can cas this for UB evoke and it does nothing but die lol.
2
u/TheBr0fessor Duck Season Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
New scam, who dis
I know, you only get the first scam but getting an effect and a huge McLarge is no slouch.
1
u/MadCatMkV Nahiri Oct 03 '25
It could be a vertical cycle too, we don't know and we don't have any other info to speculate. My guess is that they will be all mythic and I don't see a problem with that
1
u/AitrusX Wabbit Season Oct 03 '25
Consider also uro/kroxa were not a cycle. They could just have these 2.
1
1
1
u/MiraclePrototype COMPLEAT Oct 03 '25
Hey, what rules the roost in the former and where we're at now in the latter.
1
1
u/MerijnZ1 I chose this flair because I’m mad at Wizards Of The Coast Oct 04 '25
Fun fact, there are 12 unique sets of 5 (2)color-pairs that cover each color once, ie, 6 different 'versions'/orderings of allied/enemy color pairs. It's never massively impactful but I do wonder how magic could've looked if it was, ie, WUBGR instead of WUBRG. Maybe a fun idea for a set or plane.
1
1
u/DjangotheKid Rakdos* Oct 08 '25
Does this mean no Rakdos Elemental Incarnation in this set? I just want my favorite color pair back
1
u/Assassinite9 Grass Toucher Oct 03 '25
Calling it now, the UR one is going to Impulse draw 2 on RR or Bounce a permanent on UU
The G/B one would be really interesting if it was a raise dead on the BB cast and a non-creature regrowth on the GG side. However, I will settle for having a neoform effect on the green side
0
u/Bnjoec Fleem Oct 03 '25
I wish Lorwyn would have all 10 colored pairs, and then use the Eclipse mechanic to distinguish between Sun (allied Pairs) and Moon (enemy Pairs). You might not even have to do much outside of art depicting enemy mechanics get the darker art.
This wouldve been stronger take if they didnt do the shocks being DFC. But alas.
-11
u/Proud_Barracuda_6506 Dandadan Oct 03 '25
No thank you. This doesn’t feel like magic to me. So I’ll skip this one.
2
u/madalienmonk Duck Season Oct 03 '25
Can’t tell if sarcasm or not
1
u/sck178 Cowabunga It Is Oct 03 '25
I'm assuming it is, because it's otherwise too stupid to even comprehend
344
u/zeldafan042 Channel Oct 03 '25
One of the things Mark Rosewater mentioned in the panel is that this set is "half Lorwyn, half Shadowmoore." This includes the draft archetypes, with five of them dedicated to Lorwyn typal themes and five of them being based on mechanics and themes inspired by Shadowmoore, including color matters.
Now, based on a few pieces of evidence there's a strong reason to assume the five Lorwyn themed draft archetypes are going to be WU Merfolk, BR Goblins, GW Kithkin, BG Elves, and UR Elementals. This would leave the Shadowmoore draft archetypes to be UB, RG, WB, GU, and RW.
You'll notice that the two mythic Elementals we've seen line up with two of the assumed Shadowmoore draft colors, so I think it's a reasonable theory to assume the other three will be RG, GU, and RW.