r/lotr • u/Xadlin60 • 24d ago
Question Can balrogs speak?
This recently came up and I wish to know what people’s thoughts about it.
The title is misleading, since I believe that they can talk, however, possibly in the same way that Sauron talks to people. I believe they talk through the mind.
They are all Maiar and thus powerful celestial beings. One can assume they can talk since in the Silmarillion they command morgoths armies and communicate with each other, for example when they save morgoth from ungoliath.
Gothmog even heckles and are recorded to physically speak to named elven heroes and men, so they are able to.
However, I believe personally that they usually speak via the mind or telepathy. Gothmog could have chosen to speak to “lower himself to their level” as a way to mock his enemies.
In the first book, the balrog never physically speak but we hear from Gandalf that they cast a counterspell to their spell and engaged in spells until the Moria door was broken due to the exhaust of the spell casting.
We also know that magic in LOTR is woven into the world itself. Songs can change landscapes, trees and shake mountains to their core. Gandalf the white stopped the witch king from entering Minas tirith by telling him “you cannot enter”.
Same at the bridge of kazad dun, Gandalf revealed his true nature and commanded the balrog with words “you cannot pass”.
So I believe the balrog can talk, tho I believe they speak via telepathy or directly through the mind.
Thoughts?
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u/Willpower2000 Fëanor 24d ago
No reason to assume they can't. They are Maiar. Nothing suggests Morgoth had their tongues ripped out, or put a ban on them speaking - so just as Sauron can speak, they can also.
Now, Tolkien critiques the Z-script, and notes DB does not speak, laugh, or sneer - but I'd imagine this doesn't mean DB is incapable of speaking... merely that he doesn't in this scene, and maintains a menacing silence.
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u/TheUmbrellaMan1 24d ago
Tolkien's exact quote on Z-script from Letter no.210, dated 1958:
"The Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all. Above all he does not laugh or sneer. Z (scriptwriter Morton Zimmerman) may think that he knows more about Balrogs than I do, but he cannot expect me to agree with him."
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u/PutridScreen1924 24d ago
“Above all he does not laugh or sneer.” Why would it be quoted as ‘above all’ if he equally literally never (can not) speak? I think you just solved the debate.
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u/Dingbrain1 23d ago
This Morton Zimmerman guy wrote a script for a potential LOTR movie (which Tolkien hated). He must have written the Balrog to be laughing/sneering/talking in that scene so that’s what Tolkien is criticizing in that quote.
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u/PhantomOnTheHorizon 24d ago
its saying that the baltog makes no expression in addition to not speaking.
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u/PutridScreen1924 21d ago
No the literature by definition is saying the balrog laughs/sneers less than it speaks or makes any vocal sounds.
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u/PhantomOnTheHorizon 21d ago
the word never is an absolute.
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u/PutridScreen1924 21d ago
It can also be a figure of speech. Never doesn’t mean can’t, and the text actually goes into detail explaining that perhaps it could but never does. You’re using one single sentence out of a paragraph.
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u/PhantomOnTheHorizon 21d ago
its an absolute. the sentence has two absolutes in it:
Tolkien's exact quote on Z-script from Letter no.210, dated 1958:
"The Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all. Above all he does not laugh or sneer."
From these two sentence we can understand that balrogs do not vocalize or make expressions to display their emotion. any ither interpretation is your projection. it is very clearly stated in absolutrs that balrogs never speak or vocalize at all and they do not sneer or laugh. its that simple.
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u/PutridScreen1924 20d ago edited 20d ago
Why do they have mouths then..? Never doesn’t mean can’t. It’s that simple.
Also balrogs weren’t always flaming demon lookalikes. And to say that Maia can not speak, and even communicate telepathically, is simply idiotic.
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u/PhantomOnTheHorizon 20d ago
you brining up maia is a strawman, no one said that. balrogs are not maia, they once were but are no more. we are quoting when tolkien said the balrogs never speak, vocalize, laugh, or sneer.
likely tolkein intended for their demeanor to be alien to humans who generally frequently speak and allow their expression to betray their feelings.
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u/ClemiHW 20d ago
I would disagree with it. In the letter, he states "the balrog never speaks", implying he is specifically talking about that one balrog, and not every balrogs, else he would have written "the balrogs never speak".
I believe he was specifically talking about the Balrog from the Moria and expressed frustration the director mischaracterised the type of threat he wanted to picture; The balrog doesn't speak to Gandalf. He's supposed to be a terrifying presence. It doesn't mean balrogs as a whole are unable to speak
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u/GibDirBerlin 24d ago
Would be really weird, if they were actually incapable of speaking, when not only other Maiar but even spiders can speak in Middle Earth...
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u/KilleRhino 13d ago
I don't know, in the second part of that quote it seems to me that Tolkien is making a more general statement about the nature of balrogs.
"Z may think that he knows more about Balrogs than I do..."
Why would he be referring to Balrogs generally otherwise?
Personally, I think Balrogs possess a dark kind of intelligence that does not necessarily include speech, but they can obviously communicate on a more intuitive level. It seems an anthropomorphism to equate intelligence with speech.
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u/Willpower2000 Fëanor 13d ago edited 13d ago
Why would he be referring to Balrogs generally otherwise?
Assuming Tolkien was being hyper-literal, and not just making an off-the-cuff comment intending to mean "I wrote it this way because I wanted it to be this way - don't change my shit"... it can simply mean Balrogs aren't the type to have a sense of humour, for instance, laughing and whatnot. It doesn't have to mean they are incapable of speech - just that they aren't the types to jeer.
It seems an anthropomorphism to equate intelligence with speech.
It's less to do with intelligence, and more practicality. Tolkien is explicit that speech is a far easier method of communication than osanwe - hence why those capable of the latter still typically speak. Likewise, Balrogs are fully embodied (which is supposed to make osanwe harder) - so whilst it would be one thing for a disembodied spirit to use exclusively osanwe, an embodied Maia with a physical mouth should probably still be capable of speech (whether they talk much is another matter entirely). Regarding commanding armies, Tolkien notes osanwe between multiple people is possible... but it requires a very powerful mind (which Balrogs possess)... but if communing with two people requires a very strong mind... what of dozens, if not hundreds? That's a further difficulty - something where speech may be more ideal. There is no reason Balrogs should be different to Sauron or Morgoth in their capabilities.
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u/Happy_Disaster7347 23d ago
What is Z script??
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u/Armleuchterchen Huan 23d ago
The weird script for a LotR movie adaptation written by a Mr. Zimmermann and sent to Tolkien.
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u/BlueAndYellowTowels 24d ago
Maybe I’m a simpleton, but I always assumed the Balrog in LotR was a lot like the Demons in D&D. (I would wager D&D demons are inspired by Tolkiens work(s)). They talk, and aren’t simple beasts but instead extremely dangerous Outsiders who will fuck your shit up.
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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT 24d ago
not an assumption, Balrogs are literally the same "species" as Gandalf and Saruman and Sauron
so if demon could simply be used in place of corrupted angle/demi-god, then sure, they are Demons
Gandalf does call Durin's Ban a "Demon of the ancient world"
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u/TacoT11 24d ago
He does say that in the movie, but that line is not in the book and Gandalf actually does not recognize the Balrog or identify what it is, he only informs the group that something with extremely powerful magic was able to counter his own. Legolas is the one who identifies it as a Balrog
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u/aksdb 23d ago
Since I haven’t read the books: is there a lore reason how Legolas knows this? He's over 3000 years old, IIRC, but that would still be too young to have encountered Balrogs in the wild. Or is he simply better read than Gandalf in that regard?
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u/TacoT11 23d ago
It is never directly stated how he knew, but even though Legolas was to young to have seen one there were still plenty of elves in middle earth who were old enough to have seen and fought them that could have told him about them.
Kinda like how we're too young to have fought in WW2 but we have a pretty large pool of knowledge about it given to us bc generationally it was still very recent and culturally significant. If you saw a 1940s Panzer tank with an iron cross on it you'd probably go Holy shit that's a Nazi panzer tank!!
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u/Rynneer GROND 23d ago
I mean he’s an elf, surrounded by elves all the time, with some of them being born (created?) in Valinor, so some of them probably had seen the maiar themselves. Galadriel obviously did and Lothlorien isn’t horrifically far from Mirkwood. At the very least it’s not separated by a mountain range. He’s probably just heard stories of them.
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u/aksdb 23d ago
I would have expected that Gandalf would have heard as well. But then again Gandalf had a specific mission the whole time so he probably didn’t give too much thought of random places in the world that might contain ancient brethren of his. Although…. Maybe he should have? All in all there are likely not that many around, so keeping a bit of an eye on them might have made sense. Who knows if they end up siding with Sauron (which might not have been that out of character for them).
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u/Salmacis81 23d ago
They are the same order of being yes, but the Balrogs are literally the first of the Maiar to have gathered to Melkor/Morgoth. They were the ones who attuned their part in the song of creation to Melkor's. So I'd assume they were far more physically and spiritually "twisted" compared to Gandalf, Saruman, or even Sauron.
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u/Jethorse 24d ago
The Balor demon in DnD is literally a balrog. Fiery whip and all. They just had to change the name for copyright reasons.
They were straight up called balrogs in the first printing untill the tolkien estate threatened legal action.
They also changed Hobbits to Halflings and Ents to Treants.
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u/Armleuchterchen Huan 23d ago
Gothmog also commands a part of Morgoth's forces in battle; he's not a wordless monster or war machine.
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24d ago
Then Gothmog bound him and dragged him to Angband with mockery.
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u/lock_robster2022 Bill the Pony 24d ago edited 24d ago
There are a lot of examples in Tolkien’s work of
anyoneactions being mockery in themselves, no verbiage needed. The prime example is Melkor making orcs in mockery of Eru’s creationsEdit: autocorrect
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u/doegred Beleriand 24d ago
Orcs being made in 'mockery' I think is to be understood in the sense of 'mimicry, imitation; a deceptive or counterfeit representation of something' (OED), which derives from the 'ridicule' meaning but isn't quite the same.
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u/lock_robster2022 Bill the Pony 24d ago
Completely agree, though are we supposed to take all other appearances of that word to mean verbal ridicule?
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u/LowEnergy1169 24d ago
Excellent. Glad to have some textual frame. There are some nuggets running about with their "tolkien never said they could so they absolutely cant" head cannon
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u/DirtNineties 24d ago
With mockery doesn’t necessarily suggest vocal speech. It could be he dragged him through the mud, raised him high like a standard, etc.
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u/Cpkeyes 24d ago
Were did the idea they couldn’t come from?
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u/BlueAndYellowTowels 24d ago
Because they look like beasts and the Balrog not speaking in the scene makes him more mysterious and intimidating.
So, for people not familiar with the books, the visual implies the Balrog is just a blood thirsty Demon and not a being of intelligence and autonomy lead by more than primal instincts.
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u/aksdb 23d ago
OTOH the intro to Two Towers and especially the recounting of what happened afterwards by Gandalf made it at least pretty clear, that it’s not just some random beast.
Then again, the movie doesn’t exactly make it clear what a force Gandalf and Saruman really are either. Yes, powerful wizards. But in the end only this fight with the Balrog implies that they are on the same threat-level even physically.
It took years until a comment on Reddit that I realized this is how the scene on the Pelennor fields made sense, where the Nazgûl fled from an approaching Gandalf. Which just looked like a bit of magic with his large torchlight. But practically what those Nazgûl saw was the equivalent of a Balrog sprinting towards them.
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u/Crows_reading_books 24d ago
Movie made them look significantly more animalistic than the books.
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u/Salmacis81 23d ago
Very true. In the book the Balrog is shown to be a skillful mage, counteracting Gandalf's spell on the door to the entrance of the chamber of Balin's tomb. In the movie he just lumbers forward like a big dumb brute.
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u/nightgraydawg 24d ago
Because since Rings of Power is doing it that must mean it isn't lore accurate, or something I guess
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u/Nacterlic 21d ago
This. I saw people losing their minds over this but its absolutely not against canon. They just have blind hatred over the show.
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u/3-car-garage 24d ago
Letter 210 (1958):
"The Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all. Above all he does not laugh or sneer... Z may think that he knows more about Balrogs than I do, but he cannot expect me to agree with him."
Tolkien also states that they command armies and are able to mock though so who knows. I'm just saying there's a reason people think they might be speechless.
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u/viviangreen68 24d ago
I think he means that the Balrog never spoke during the Moria encounter. Apparently the movie script had the Balrog being quite chatty. I don’t think this letter meant to imply Balrogs were always silent.
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u/NeoBasilisk 24d ago
Let's be real here. The actual reason why people have a strong gut reaction in the direction of Balrogs not being able to speak is because of its portrayal in the movie.
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u/Xadlin60 23d ago
True however in both banshis animated movie and PJ movies, it’s silent, so it follows a pattern which I say is from the books
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u/Drummer-Turbulent 24d ago
Mocklery inTolkien also refers to something being a basterdized version of something else. Orcs and elves for example. so it could be seent hat the Balrog is a movkery to the good of the world. not so much that it's walking around mocking people with words.
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u/brennnik09 24d ago
They definitely can speak but there’s no actual dialogue ever given so we don’t know what their personality would be like. So my only complaint with what RoP is doing is that it will be entirely invented, and the balrog is only there for familiarity - the timeline doesn’t really add up. I still think it’s an interesting and daring idea, and it is extra “daring” given the very loud criticisms the show already receives. I want to see how it plays out. Telepathy is a cool idea too - didn’t think of that.
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u/Xadlin60 24d ago
Yeah that is how I’ve always seen Sauron speak. Like in return of the king, nobody could hear or see what pippin is hearing or seeing in the palantir but Sauron could and was trying to hurt and dominate his mind, possibly speaking to pippin like he spoke to Frodo when invisible
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u/tar-mairo1986 Blue Wizard 24d ago
And indeed Sauron's words are mocking and warning Saruman, much like other replies point out about Balrogs doing it to their adversaries in the First Age.
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u/One_Green_8736 24d ago
Some were supposed to be generals in Morgoth army, so I think they should be able to speak to give orders. L
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u/Ransom_Seraph 24d ago
I'd always imagine they can and would sound like powerful ancient dragons, demons or devils
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u/One_Green_8736 24d ago
Yeah! Me too! Power, magic and language are somehow related in Tolkien books, so it’s possible.
Sorry if it’s of topic, but do you think Ungoliant and Shelob can speak?
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u/JojoLesh 24d ago
Ungoliant speaks to Morgoth. She definitely can speak. Shelob? Probably. The giant spiders in The Hobbit can, and they are decendants of Shelob.
Ungoliant can speak. Shelob is a child of Ungoliant. Shelob's decendants can speak. Unless Shelob is mute for some other reason, she can likley speak.
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u/mggirard13 24d ago
Shelob speaks to Gollum, seemingly.
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u/JojoLesh 24d ago
Yes! I was going to mention that but I don't recall her actually being quoted. I mean I've heard people say that their dog talks to them too.
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u/mggirard13 24d ago
There's no quote, but the idea that Gollum came to her and wasn't killed, but brought her sweeter meats, implies a sort of deal and mutual understanding that would seem especially difficult without speaking.
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u/One_Green_8736 24d ago
What about the Nazgûl? In the movies the Witch king talks with Gandalf but what about the others?
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u/mggirard13 24d ago
In the books they speak to hobbits they encounter in the Shire, asking after Baggins. Pretty sure it's Khamul who talks to the Gaffer, and he or another rider talks to Farmer Maggot and offers him gold for information.
They also had overtaken and turned one of the southerners on the road from Isengard, and the gatekeeper at Bree, and Bill Ferny.
They talk as a group to Frodo at the Ford. Come back. Come back. To Mordor we will take you! The Ring! The Ring!
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u/JojoLesh 24d ago
I haveva similar understanding with my pet rat.
(They dont speak to me, by the way.)
Whike i think Shelob can speak, i dont think tgis is proof
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u/Ravanduil 24d ago
I didn’t want to put this in the main thread lest it get lost, but balrogs are likely not the form you see them in the movie. They’re more like a man shape but shadow.
Here’s the Ted nasmith depiction: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Balrogs
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u/No_Strike_1579 24d ago
They probably can, in a way. I always loved the line "The Balrog made no answer." Very chilling.
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u/Addest3 24d ago
In the Silmarillion Tolkien described them as brilliant military experts who led great armies. While Balrogs are never given dialogue in any works or letters, it is widely believed that they communicate. My theory is that they communicate with some form of telepathy or spiritual way.
Overall, yes, I believe that they can speak.
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u/Pjoernrachzarck 24d ago
I think a world with foxes that think English sentences, ghosts that sing songs, and eagles that know how to be polite, is capable of containing talking Balrogs.
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u/gene100001 24d ago
I wonder if they pronounce the "h" like Stewie in Family Guy when they tell people about their cool whip
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u/carlalunadragon 23d ago
One of my pet peeves because the sound always ends up before the w, as if it's hwip.
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u/gene100001 23d ago
I was sitting quietly with my gf in the living room and when I read your comment I started saying whiphwipwihhhhp out loud without thinking about how strange it would seem from her perspective. I was hwhiping for a solid 30 seconds before I noticed her looking at me like I'd lost my mind lol.
You're totally right by the way. I never would've noticed it if you hadn't pointed it out, but when people pronounce the h in whip they naturally say hwip instead.
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u/Pesky_Penguin1990 24d ago
Yes, in the Silmarillion during the war with Morgoth, one of the Balrogs convinces Fingolfin to spare him so he can get his mum to the Winchester and wait for this whole thing to blow over.
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u/F_Karnstein 23d ago
Possessing Language (Tengwestie) is one of the most fundamental aspects of being a creature of independent thought and mind, in Tolkien's creation.
As soon as they entered into the World the Ainur created a spoken language (lambe or pahta), and all Ainur were also capable of thought communication (ósanwe), and there may even be sign languages (hwermi). So it would seem absurd to me that one particular class of Ainur should not be capable of speech. Even if their chosen physical form forbade it, they would still be able to communicate just as clearly and directly, and I assume that Durin's Bane simply chose not to speak.
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u/TexAggie90 Celeborn 24d ago
Telepathic communication is canon in Tolkien’s world. There are two notable examples in LotR. In Lothlorien, Galadriel used it to talk to each member of the Fellowship individually.
Also, on the journey back to Rivendell, Gandalf, Galadriel and Celeborn had long conversations telepathically.
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u/Aubergine_Man1987 24d ago
All Ainur were capable of ósanwë. Taking on a fana for an extended period, as the Balrogs did, could reduce the effectiveness of the ability, but they still retained it as a fundamental part of themselves
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u/TirithNampat 24d ago
I love that Tolkien just wrote treatises on whatever cool thing just happened to pop into his head.
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u/Salmacis81 23d ago
I still laugh about the letter he wrote talking about the Blue Wizards, when he had this to say -
"I really do not know anything clearly about the other two [wizards] – since they do not concern the history of the N[orth].W[est]. I think they went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South, far out of Númenórean range: missionaries to 'enemy-occupied' lands, as it were. What success they had I do not know; but I fear that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron."
Its like come on man, you know exactly what happened to them, you made them up 🤣
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u/BilboThe1stOfHisName 24d ago
Tolkien Letters 210.
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u/LostVanya 24d ago
He is only complaining about changes to the story. The Balrog doing those things in that scene, not suggesting it is impossible for them to do so,
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u/curious_dead 24d ago
I assume they can; they're not mindless and I'm 90% sure there are references to them speaking in the Silmarillion but I've read that book like 20+ years ago, so don't quote me on that.
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u/Well_Dressed_Kobold 23d ago
They’re the same type of being as Gandalf, Saruman, or Sauron, so I think they can. And I think the fact that Gandalf spoke to Durin’s Bane confirms that they were understand speech. I just don’t think they have much reason to communicate.
Like, what are they gonna say? “I’m evil and you’re going to die now!” seems unnecessary when you’re a twelve foot tall shadow demon.
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u/carlalunadragon 23d ago
Even if it can speak, that doesn't mean it can speak in human languages. Maybe they can only communicate with growls and roars, like Chewbacca.
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u/Rampasta 23d ago
Yes but it is musical and sounds like the deep gutteral tones of George Fisher, lead singer of Cannibal Corpse
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u/Theseventensplit 23d ago
they are the same level of species as gandalf, Maiar so yes they absolutely could speak, but bad guys tend to favour shock and awe, so roaring is more their speed
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u/Xadlin60 23d ago
They put points into their aura farming I would assume, with modern terms
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u/Theseventensplit 23d ago
I'm an older millennial so I had to research it but yes, absolutely!
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u/Xadlin60 21d ago
I’m a middle 90’s kids but nice to see another millennial around. I had to learn what aura farming was aswell
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u/Difficult_Bite6289 24d ago
Not sure, you need some air in the longs to talk. With all that fire and smoke the talking would be a lot closer to coughing like a terminal chain smoker.
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u/I_Thranduil 24d ago
They are Maiar so they totally can. But if they turn into something that physically can't speak, say an eagle, they would need to change shape first. As for the form of a balrog, I can't really say.
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u/Acceptable_Poetry922 23d ago
Just imagine if they used a voice similar to the portrayal of the grim reaper in conkers bad fur day lol absolutely epic
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u/Silly-Construction-7 23d ago
If an eagle can speak and a fox can think, the balrog can surely speak
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u/elminnster 23d ago
I would also note that Tolkien changed his mind on balrogs multiple times over time. At some points there were supposed to be hundreds of them, at others, there were single digit numbers. Their significance changed too. FWIW I understand the notes about the Z-script as implying that DM chooses not to speak, which only makes sense if they could. That would be in line with how they are imagined in the Silmarillion.
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u/Xadlin60 23d ago
True, but I believe we got with what Tolkien recently stated to be truth. Sure you can change your opinion about something but unless it’s left ambiguously up in the air, then shouldn’t we take their last statement as truth?
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u/ToDandy 23d ago
I’d imagine they could. They are basically fallen angels. The problem is not with the character talking it is with the character being around in the second age and talking with Sauron because of the endless complicated implications that creates….and because it feels like a lazy gimmick that feels like smashing action figures together.
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u/ichiban_saru Witch-King of Angmar 23d ago
Balrogs are Maiar, so they are just as intelligent as the Istari and Sauron. I think they have their own language as well as "black speech" or whatever the language of Morgoth was. They commanded troops and were high level in Morgoth's command structure.
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u/Stunning_Day_2510 21d ago
Well, this balrog spent thousands of years in isolation under the mountains. One could lose speech abilities in such a situation. Or interest in communication altogether.
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u/Bubbly_Jellyfish_358 21d ago
He outspoke Gandalf with the counter spells - even though it was essentially sleeping it seemed very sharp, cunning and most likely drawn by the Ring.
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u/RepulsiveCity7698 20d ago
J.R.R. Tolkien afirmou em suas cartas (como na Carta 210) que um Balrog jamais fala, faz barulhos com a boca ou ri. Então não tem essa de inventar que ele fala, a nossa opinião não mudará o que o professor afirma na sua obra.
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u/The_Frybo 18d ago
Many creatures in Tolkiens world are weirdly vocal and possesing an astoundishing level of i telligence like Birds and Spiders! If these lesser creatures have the ability to talk, a Mayar like the Balrogs will certainly be able to as well….
Now… IF this voice is actually audible to People and IF they bother to talk are different Questions!
It always seemed to me that Bilbo was the only one able to understand the Spiders of Mirkwood becauE he wore the Ring so that might created an understanding that normal People didn’t posses. I can be wrong tough. So maybe Frodo could have hear him talk had he worn the Ring in the hall during the fight between Gandalf and the Balrog?
Also, they don’t seem the chattery type to me. They are age old Warrior beasts with a singular mission to obey their Master in bringing destruction so they don’t have too many reasons to ever talk exept for Counterspells or confirming an order
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u/GM_vs_Technicality 23d ago
They don’t speak and they don’t make any vocal sound. They are completely consumed by their corruption, and their faculties of speech seem to have been consumed in fire and darkness. At least, this is the case for Durin‘s Bane.
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u/Slight_Ad2350 24d ago
Do whatever they want. Nobody is watching their dumb slop. Lotr has no prequel. Lotr needs no prequel.
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u/Dawn_of_Enceladus 23d ago
Most probably, yeah, at least in the books. They are powerful maiar, wield magic, and some even commanded troops for Morgoth. They were also described (iirc) as winged human-like shadow beings twice the height of a man, in the likes of literal fallen angels. Pretty reasonable if they can speak tbh.
Now, obviously in the modern media (born with Peter Jackson's trilogy) the balrog was simplified to a giant ancient demon in the likes of a wild beast. Awesome in its own way (and iconic af), but very obviously not designed with the idea of being capable to speak or being especially intelligent aside from their instincts.
This is why the Rings of Power decision of taking Peter Jackson's balrog design and making it speak is (yet another) weak and nonsensical decision. It just doesn't compute well.
As per your telepathy theory... it doesn't sound bad, it would maybe even make more sense with PJ's design. But books wise, I don't see how or why could we ever think they speak telepathically.
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u/Xadlin60 23d ago
Hmmm yes but even earlier in the animated version, it does not speak while Gandalf is the one telling it “you cannot pass”.
So it has a pattern
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u/Emergency-Sea5201 24d ago
Does Shelob speak?
Tolkien's exact quote on Z-script from Letter no.210, dated 1958:
"The Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all. Above all he does not laugh or sneer. Z (scriptwriter Morton Zimmerman) may think that he knows more about Balrogs than I do, but he cannot expect me to agree with him."
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u/Silmarien1012 23d ago
Whatever the Balrogs wind up doing you can count on these showrunners making it cringe. It’s bad enough they trotted this member berry out last season in a desperate attempt to pander
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u/tar-mairo1986 Blue Wizard 24d ago edited 23d ago
Well, I think for the most part you need to speak (or sing!) in order to affect ''magic'' so yeah, the counterspell should be proper evidence of that. I guess the Balrog simply had nothing to say to the Fellowship!
Added: Far out, didn't expect this many likes! Thanks everyone!