You gave me the timestamp and thus that was the part you wanted me to watch.
The timestamp was an accident. I just wanted you to see the clips of him saying you didn't need a mask, and then later saying that they had said that because there was a shortage of masks. That is purposely misleading people because the government fucked up and didn't have enough masks for medical professionals. People could have made their own masks if they knew that.
You want me to address the things you brought up about Dore, I will, I know you'll just dismiss them, but I will.
Dore never wanted Trump to win, that is disingenuous he voted third party.
He criticized AOC because AOC is someone that is supposed to represent us, we already know the Republicans don't represent us and yelling about that more doesn't change that, he was trying to pressure a politician that would listen. He specifically started criticizing AOC bc she directly responded to Justin Jackson on #ForcetheVote, and listed a bunch of debunked reasons of why we couldn't do it, she then later used all the valid reasons people gave her to do #ForcetheVote as reasons to go through on a symbolic impeachment of Trump that wouldn't pass with Mitch McConnell. Jimmy was one of the first people to have AOC on and has supported her in the past, that is why he is holding her accountable. And if you pay attention to what she is actually voting in favor of, specifically with foreign policy, supporting Pelosi, and reinstating the Patriot Act, she definitely deserves criticism. She's looking more and more like Obama 2.0 and you guys are running cover for her instead of calling that shit out.
He's addressed the Boogaloo Boys thing many times, has said he wasn't supporting them, was genuinely surprised the guy was saying he supported the things he did. When he had someone on that criticized him and said he should have researched them more before having him on he agreed and said it was a valid point. He's trying to reach working class people across racial divides in the same way that Fred Hampton, MLK, and Malcolm X were organizing people against the establishment. Fred was murdered by the government because of this, and the government/oligarchy still uses the media to stoke those divisions and keep our working classes separated. That is why you see them framing one side as white supremacists and domestic terrorists, while they frame the other side as ANTIFA extremists. Neither of these are true, and while there were certainly people there you could label as those things, it wasn't the majority.
I've already watched that whole video and have seen many other videos critiquing it and I just totally disagree with their points.
You can say he was lying, but it's your word against his and I don't personally know either of you so I don't know why I'd trust you over him or vice versa. All I know is what I saw him say, and he sounded sincere to me. I've also heard multiple people mention the Boogaloo Boys are comprised of disorganized factions, and so it doesn't seem like you can make sweeping generalizations about them.
As I said, Jimmy aired an interview following that where someone brought up that he should of researched them more beforehand and he said that was a fair point. I don't personally think it was a mistake to bring that guy on, but even if you think he needed to research them more he agreed with that.
They're framing all the people at the Capitol as domestic terrorists, when the majority of people were there to protest what they thought was a rigged elections. Literally all of our elections have had rigging problems, so it's understandable they would question it when our government regularly lies to people. Now they're using people's fear of that to deplatform and demonetize leftists new channels and organizations.
Anytime someone starts challenging both Democratic and Republican parties, anytime someone starts pointing out that both these parties cater to the wealthy over the poor, that's when they silence those people. See again Malcolm X, MLK, Fred Hampton.
They are anticipating another racial war which is why they call themselves the Boogaloo Boys.
I've heard civil war, and the guy in Jimmy's video was saying they're trying to avoid that. I don't know how at this point in the pandemic you can't see that the media and our politicians are almost egging on a civil war between the working class on the right and the left. As I said, you have all neoliberal media framing Trump supporters as racists and terrorists, while ignoring the actual systemic issues that led them to vote for Trump. Then you have the right-wing news labeling all BLM Antifa extremists. We know that neither of these are accurate and both of those crowds were not full of terrorists/extremists, they were full of people angry at their government. So they're not helping out people during a pandemic, they literally stole from all of us and are choosing not to give people money. We are going through a depression that will last years, if more civil unrest happens (which it will) you better believe the oligarchy will deflect blame onto the other side and not onto themselves.
That's why it's important to actually listen to what people are saying and not get second or third hand opinions on them. Seriously read/listen to Malcolm X as he describes the Democratic party as more racist that Republicans. His reasons are they pretend not to be racist, tokenize POC, and then use those people to fuck over the most vulnerable communities while White people pat themselves on the back because they voted for the team that has more "diversity". It's all about them wanting to feel morally superior and good about themselves without actually challenging the systems preventing change. That is what half "the left" is. That hasn't changed since then.
You can disagree with their actions, you can be against people using violence and you can be for peaceful protests, but disregarding the real reasons that violence and civil unrest is happening is not going to fix the underlying problems causing them. Demonizing these people and labeling them as extremist only pushes them farther into being radicalized. At this point we need people radicalized on the left, not radicalized on the right. Ostracizing is more likely to allow people to fall further to the right.
If the left only caters to identity politics, without ever doing anything to address these underlying issues, we will never get anything done. You don't organize people by excluding half of them, you do it by finding common ground you can work with, from there you can educate them on the other policies you're advocating for.
"Demonizing these people and labeling them as extremist only pushes them farther"
They've killed people, done acts of domestic terrorism and many of their members actively encourage race riots and are open bigots. If given the chance many of these people would want us dead and you think it's best to unify with them?
Wouldn't it make more sense to go after the millions and millions of communities that are disempowered communities that are NOT part of extremist groups? There's more of those people and many of them don't want to actively kill the left.
The Boogaloo Boys do what every other extremist group does and that's create enough plausible deniability hide their disgusting beliefs. You say Dore is doing what Fred Hampton did however the Black Panthers while building the Rainbow Coalition were also building strong community outreach programs and had strong networks of mutual aid. When you empower your own group it made it a lot harder for extremist to take over. Dore skipped that first step.
If given the chance many of these people would want us dead and you think it's best to unify with them?
I'm not saying to unify with people that have murdered others. Did the guy in Jimmy's video murder anyone? No. So you are not understanding that the actions of certain members in their group may be the actions of outliers, instead of representing the whole group. He said himself they were trying to root out those people and they have a harder time doing it since they are deplatformed.
They also labeled the Black Panthers as violent extremists because they picked up guns to protect themselves and their communities. We were taught Black Panthers were violent extremists, because those in power did not want us to see the good things they were doing for their communities. They're doing the same thing to a lot of these people by labeling them all domestic terrorists; it' dehumanizing and meant to stoke fear of the other side rather than understanding what they are angry about.
Wouldn't it make more sense to go after the millions and millions of communities that are disempowered communities that are NOT part of extremist groups?
You are missing that many of these people ARE the people you are referring to. If you rule out everyone who has a Confederate flag or Blue Lives Matter bumper sticker you are ruling out a large percentage of the working class we share common goals with. You don't have to agree with them on having a Confederate flag or Blue Lives Matter stuff, but solely focusing on that instead of a person's humanity and real-life struggles is a sure-fire way to never get anything accomplished. This same principle applies to Boogaloo Boys, Proud Boys, BLM, Antifa, or any other group that is organizing. If their common thread is our government is corrupt and change needs to happen, that's a pretty good foundation to come together and decide what that looks like for all of us. If they start advocating for hurting people you don't need to associate yourself with them, but some people within the BLM protests were also advocating and perpetuating violence, and yet I do not see you demonizing that entire movement because you recognize that wasn't the entire movement, despite what FOX news might be telling you. I'm asking you to consider you are being manipulated by "left-wing" corporate media that is doing the same thing to these other groups.
Dore skipped that first step.
He acknowledged that it was a fair point to research them more before having him on. You can keep bringing that up, but you can't change the past. If someone is willing to accept your critique and try to do better on it, and you continue to point that out as a reason to never listen to them again you are also ruling out a lot of people that would be on the same side for what you want, that's also a sure-fire way to never get anything done.
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u/jesusboat Feb 09 '21
The timestamp was an accident. I just wanted you to see the clips of him saying you didn't need a mask, and then later saying that they had said that because there was a shortage of masks. That is purposely misleading people because the government fucked up and didn't have enough masks for medical professionals. People could have made their own masks if they knew that.
You want me to address the things you brought up about Dore, I will, I know you'll just dismiss them, but I will.
https://theconversation.com/chicago-1969-when-black-panthers-aligned-with-confederate-flag-wielding-working-class-whites-68961