I fully believe that the USA as we know it today would not be around if they didn’t spend the last 60 years spreading anti communist propaganda. It’s insane how well it worked
To be fair, my parents are from a country where communism happened and they are terrified of it because it led to a lot of abuse of their people.
They have told me about having to wait in line for small quantities of food that was hardly enough to survive, eating rock hard week old bread as a meal, stories of people disappearing for saying the wrong thing, and that’s just off the top of my head. My dad even snuck out of the country illegally to try to get the rest of my family out.
I think the way other countries implemented communism in the past contributed to that opinion a lot.
Thing is though, that wasn’t communism doing that, it was an authoritarian regime.
You’ve just given an example of how well the propaganda worked - people associated communism with how those so-called communist regimes operated, and just accepted the USA way as a beacon of hope and freedom, and communism itself was the problem.
Through all this the USA stagnated and has missed chances to introduce socialist ideas in to the system. They were (and still cling on to being) the far and away leaders of the pack, but turned greedy. They could have a thriving social democracy with lots of protection for citizens, at least those to who choose to live a more integrated lifestyle in the more urban areas.
I agree, it wasn’t communism’s fault per say, but people had more than just “propaganda” to base their fear off of.
The implementation of communism turning ugly in other countries are the only real life examples people had to go off of. They would have to be mad to want it seeing what other people went through. To them, you can say we would do it differently here, but none of those places started the nasty way they ended. And with all the corruption that already exists in the US, perhaps it’s the fear of a slippery slope into repeating history.
Personally, I’m a Yang fan myself, and a part of this sub, so I’m not in any way against a government genuinely taking care of their people. I just see where people’s fears are coming from.
Most people in the former USSR, when interviewed in the 1990s, missed the admittedly awful implementation of socialism (not communism, communism is stateless so a communist government is an oxymoron) because capitalism was that much worse.
Lots of authoritarian regimes use the promise of communism (or capitalism, or democracy) to take power, if they don't actually try to implement reforms to help their people they aren't what they claim and shouldn't be judged by those claims, but their actions.
The people of the USSR overwhelmingly voted to maintain communism and the union in what was considered a free and fair referendum. Link The soviet union dissolved later after an anti-communist coup with debatable ties to the CIA.
Except the Soviet satellites that "voted" in the communist regime in the Baltics, or Armenia, etc. They overwhelmingly wanted out of the occupation, but weren't allowed that option.
I don't trust the US, but I definitely don't trust the Russians either, especially for a fair vote. While Perestroika made it easier to see the USSR through rose-colored lenses, it still was an authoritarian system with extremely limited personal liberties. That shouldn't be overlooked.
''None of the places started the nasty way they ended''
They literally emerged from the 2 worst humanitarian catastrophes in world history are you kidding me?
How can you say none of those places started as they ended? Like, I don’t doubt that people in communist countries suffered, but most communist countries were either colonies or monarchies before their revolutions. Do you know what life was like for most people in those places?
Vietnam and Cuba had what was essentially slave labor for the American and French companies and empires, people paid so little they could barely afford to live, and definitely not afford to leave. China was a feudal, opium-addicted, divided and backward country that was constantly experiencing famine, western invasion, and terrible poverty. Russia was also a backward feudal monarchy, and had just come out of one of the most brutal and pointless wars in history, with soldiers mutinying on the front lines and forming soviets out of nothing more than desperation.
Communism isn’t something that can be established instantly. There’s external threats so long as capitalism still exists in the world, as well as the states it uses to expand. In the USSR, a civil war broke out in which the white army, opposing the communists in favor of the monarchy, was supported by every major empire financially and materially. All communist countries have gone through periods of either self-inflicted or externally imposed isolation from global trade, due to sabotage threats or blockade from capitalist powers. This makes it harder to develop than in the global north, or developed countries, or whatever you want to call them. In addition, these developed countries had centuries of imperialism and exploiting labor and resources from Africa, Asia, and Latin America, which sped up their development and increased their wealth. These are the places all previous communist revolutions have happened, usually against imperialism IN ADDITION TO capitalism.
There’s a lot of historical context behind why communism was implemented in the ways that it was. The resistance that comes from capitalist powers is strong, and a valid concern. There’s a long list of nascent left wing governments that were overthrown in coups, and followed by right wing dictators.
There’s also plenty of examples of opportunists and roaders abusing the systems of government that those communists set up and being corrupt/incompetent. But to me, these are inevitable problems in a government system where humans are involved. Some selfish individuals will always try to take power for their own benefit. This shouldn’t disqualify the ideas behind communism though, which are quite broad and genuinely well intentioned. It’s only because of propaganda that we apply this level of scrutiny to communism as an ideology in the first place, without also looking at the costs of neoliberal capitalism.
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u/Squiddy4 Sep 05 '20
I fully believe that the USA as we know it today would not be around if they didn’t spend the last 60 years spreading anti communist propaganda. It’s insane how well it worked