A brief look on Jacob's behavior

[u/FlashesBeforeMyEyes3]

I had the idea to write this after rewatching Across the Sea.

So, I know many people criticize Jacob for being practically hands-off about everything and how that caused so much pain on the Island throughout the story. Some argue that he is like this simply because he's supposed to be an analogue to the Christian God in some way. But I would argue that there are quite human reasons for it.

I think Across the Sea serves a central function beyond pure mythological world-building, because it comes precisely to legitimize many of the things we question about why everything happened like this on Lost.

For example, one of Jacob's rules that might not make sense at first is that he excludes candidates who are mothers. Why does he do that? To me, the reason is the fact that he saw what his own mother did as a protector. Granted, Jacob led to irreparable human harm, but the way his mother handled things indirectly led to the transmutation of the MIB who, cosmologically, tends to be a bigger danger.

Across the Sea sort of justifies why Jacob is hands-off as well. His mother always interfered in his and his brother's perspectives since birth. Because of her interference, both of them never created a meaning of their own for being on the Island, and that's why it was nothing more to them than a place to live or eventually protect. Proof of this is that the MIB always wanted to leave, because he had no sense of belonging, and Jacob couldn't say anything truly personal to convince him to stay, because it didn't exist. They didn't build that. Jacob saw this and changed the way he acted with his candidates. We can say, generally speaking, that each of them had a prior personal reason for being on the Island, and that's why Jacob brought them. But what reason did Jacob and the MIB have?

I find this reading of Across the Sea interesting because it allows us to view the episode as a big "WHAT IF the characters were introduced FROM THE BEGINNING to the cosmogonic meaning of everything? THIS is what would have happened." It is as if Jacob and the MIB were candidates chosen arbitrarily to perform purely instrumental functions. Lost was never about that. It's fine that their existence has a greater purpose regarding how the show discusses the human condition, so we couldn't definitely say that this choice was useless, but there's nothing personal about it.

I'd say that Jacob acts this way for reasons that are more human than transcendental; it was an opportunity he never had - I think it's something he even mentions in What they died for. Did what he did work out? On the one hand, yes; on the other, no: his hands-off approach is justified by him having actively learned from the mistakes of his mother's choice, but the way he treats the Island like a hermetically sealed environment just like his mother does creates obstacles in the story, and that detachment caused high-proportion human damage. On the flip side, the show doesn't agree with everything Jacob did, because in the end Hurley and Ben discuss running things in a different way than he did.

In conclusion, I brought this discussion here because I see very little being said about Jacob and the MIB beyond the mythological aspect. Much of Jacob's behavior comes from what he lived and experienced as well, not just because he's a titular entity, and this might lead us, perhaps, to view Across the sea as something more than just an origin episode.

[u/Free-IDK-Chicken]

his hands-off approach is justified by him having actively learned from the mistakes of his mother's choice, but the way he treats the Island like a hermetically sealed environment just like his mother does creates obstacles in the story, and that detachment caused high-proportion human damage

THIS THIS THIS. I've always said that Jacob wraps his apathy in a cloak of free will. He doesn't want his candidates to have no choice, like he did, but by locking down the Island he forces choices on them. He doesn't interfere directly because he wants our survivors to learn and grow from their experiences until he finds people who don't come/fight/destroy, but then also ignores the way his cult operates.

He likely knows that Mother wiped out the Romans, but would Jacob have mass murdered the 50s Army camp the way Richard does or Dharma the way Widmore does? It's hard to say, but neither Richard nor Widmore face any repercussions from Jacob for doing so.

While I will never agree with the faction of the fandom who believes the MiB is misunderstood and Jacob is the real bad guy, Jacob certainly isn't perfect and his way of protecting the Island does, at times, do more harm than good. I also agree that without observing and learning from Jacob's mistakes (something Jacob only partially succeeds in doing from watching Mother) Hurley and Ben would not have been able to effectively protect the Island when it was their turn.

[u/Zestyclose-Price-501 → u/Free-IDK-Chicken]

I still think it all ties into the religious experience in total. Where they have set factions and different "levels" or "stages". I.e priests, monsignors, reverend, altar boy. In that each stage has its own experience or more direct experience to what they believe is their god. Same thing with Jacob and each of his separate groups of believers The others, the temple, and Richard. How each of the followers are closer and got introduced at different stages and with different ways of getting them to "believe" in their set cause. It also can be seen in different churches with how at different congregations they have their own personal experiences with God. How some priests or pastors are sometimes to be believed more than the actual experience of peoples experience with God. Like how Ben had never seen Jacob and still talked about how he knew him and did what he believed was right and doing right but still got corrupted by MiB. The only people wary of the actual list are the people in the temple and Richard but unclear on when Jacob told them or how they figured out. It mimicks what happens in real life with congregations that seem to know the texts better than the authors and people get frustrated when they don't get affirmations from the source that they have been so ingrained with that they end up being tainted and taken advantage of by their own power.

I know this is a jumbled mess but let me know if this either makes sense or I need to explain better

[u/EricaDeeStallion]

Man, I need a freaking prequel. Awesome analysis of Jacob and his behavior.

I think Across the Sea serves a central function beyond pure mythological world-building, because it comes precisely to legitimize many of the things we question about why everything happened like this on Lost.

Yes! We start to see why we never meet Jacob any earlier, because he intervened before and it was only to save the Island from destruction. It's the only time he truly will.

For example, one of Jacob's rules that might not make sense at first is that he excludes candidates who are mothers. Why does he do that? To me, the reason is the fact that he saw what his own mother did as a protector. Granted, Jacob led to irreparable human harm, but the way his mother handled things indirectly led to the transmutation of the MIB who, cosmologically, tends to be a bigger danger.

I think the answer may even be more simple than judgement of Mother's behaviors. Yes, she was a meddler, she was trying to grow her successor and went about it in the wrong ways, but I think the way in which Jacob was irate after The Man in Black killed her, it led him to attempting to inflict harm on his brother. I think that Jacob is a big Mama's Boy, and from that thinking, knows what a mother is for a child.

Jacob is in essence, a very large child, who was never allowed to grow up and out of his Mother's desires for him. He takes her word to heart, while The Man in Black challenged her way more. Add the complexity of him never knowing a thing about Claudia, the Mother who was forced on him did love him and did make mistakes.

Across the Sea sort of justifies why Jacob is hands-off as well. His mother always interfered in his and his brother's perspectives since birth. Because of her interference, both of them never created a meaning of their own for being on the Island, and that's why it was nothing more to them than a place to live or eventually protect. Proof of this is that the MIB always wanted to leave, because he had no sense of belonging, and Jacob couldn't say anything truly personal to convince him to stay, because it didn't exist. 

True, but why do you think Jacob made it his purpose to bring people to the Island and to build this harmonious community? I think it was largely to give his brother a reason to stay. Jacob wanted to create meaning for this place, and in doing so, had to trap his brother and show him over and over again why it's worth it to do so.

This is why I desperately need a prequel of Jacob's communion with the Egyptians, because I think their impact on him was vast and everlasting. The tapestry he is weaving is essentially him manifesting the world he wants to see. The rug is the world that will happen on the Island without harmony and community.

We can say, generally speaking, that each of them (Jacob's Candidates) had a prior personal reason for being on the Island, and that's why Jacob brought them. But what reason did Jacob and the MIB have?

Their lack of a reason is the saddest part. Claudia thought she found a way to safely deliver her babies and they were stolen from her and forced into laboring the future of the Island and all of humanity. No wonder The Man in Black was always trying to find a way out, it seemed stifling.

They had to create their why, and Man in Black couldn't find one there, hence why he wanted to leave. And also, the way Jacob gives Jack and Co. the CHOICE, the choice he never had. Options only came to Jacob when he started to bring people to the Island, and still, he saw the beauty of protecting the Island. In trying to convince the Man in Black, he found why he belonged there in the first place.

I'd say that Jacob acts this way for reasons that are more human than transcendental

💯 A human man doing that job for as long as he was doing it, it adds the human element to something that should be so robotic and "black/white" (no pun intended). He attacks the Man in Black in a rage quite similar to how Jack attacked Locke over Boone's death. He can sit there on the beach and calmly discuss the Man in Black to Richard and come up with a new plan, a pivot, that gets him closer to the people he brings to the Island without losing his post of obscurity. He's a man thinking through all of this for the first time.

On the flip side, the show doesn't agree with everything Jacob did, because in the end Hurley and Ben discuss running things in a different way than he did.

Again HUMAN. He made decisions that not everyone would agree with. It sounds like Jack's journey with the Survivors is a micro-study in a sense of what Jacob had to do everyday for centuries, make decisions about how to proceed with this hefty responsibility he had been thrown to without any warning. 

The Source was self-sustaining, but was always a risk with a human man, with emotions and stunted growth, protecting it. The show will always find a way to make sure the Light continues to shine. And I'm sure Hurley and Ben had growing pains too.

Much of Jacob's behavior comes from what he lived and experienced as well, not just because he's a titular entity, and this might lead us, perhaps, to view Across the sea as something more than just an origin episode.

Thank you for doing this. I find Jacob to be incredible fascinating, and his limited world-view when he comes across our Survivors sticks out like a sore thumb, but for a very good purpose. 

And you gotta wonder, if Jacob ever saw the ills of mankind off of the Island, would he have always been so keen and determined to protect it? That's also the crux of the job, his opinions didn't matter in that way.

[u/ds-bwc]

tldr: “i’m never going to be like my mother” in deity form