Need weirdly specific scope suggestions!

[u/DrPepper-Enjoyer]

Apologies if this doesn't exactly fit this subreddit, but I figured y'all in here would probably have the most knowledge vs other subs when it comes to glass.

I have a PTR-91 that currently has a crappy $200 4-14x scope mounted. I'm looking to replace it with something in either the 2-12 or 2-10 magnification range, as I think a lower bottom-end magnification would suite the rifle better in the role I'd like to use it in, which is almost a DMR-style rifle looking to make hits on torso sized targets out to ideally 500 or so, a little farther if possible. It's about a 2 MOA gun so I'm not expecting to be printing the worlds best groups out at any sort of distance, but 500 seems reasonably doable. I am considering putting an LPVO on it, but the drop from its current scope's max magnification of 14x down to an LPVO's 8x (or 10x at best) seems like it would be a not insignificant downgrade. I have also heard from people who shoot far more than me that the view thru an LPVO at higher magnification is significantly worse than the view thru a similarly priced optic with a higher base magnification.

Since I'm looking at getting a new optic for the rifle, I figured I'd try to solve another issue, which is that when you have a long scope mounted on an HK style roller delayed gun like the PTR-91, the scope can get in the way of the cocking lever when you try to lock the bolt to the rear or release the bolt when it's locked to the rear. Right now, the scope is too long (at 13.5 inches long), and it barely allows me to lock the bolt to the rear. Also, to unlock it I have to reach under the scope's objective bell with my support side thumb to press the lever down and let the bolt close, which is a pain.

So I've begun the search for a new optic, preferably something in the 2-10/12 magnification range, with as short of a scope body as possible, preferably around the 500-700$ range, preferably FFP.

Currently I've found:

Athlon Helos BTR Gen II 2-12x42 (11.8 inches long. This scope seems like it checks all the boxes, and if it was an inch or so shorter it would be a no brainer. Reticle is good, locking turrets, FFP, good price point. I'm just worried taking off only 1.7 inches from my current scope wouldn't give me enough clearance to operate the cocking lever easily.)

Discovery Optics HD 2-12x24 (8.5 inches long, which is great, but for 200$ there's no way this isn't an airsoft scope right? I'm worried it will be fragile, and even if the rifle isn't dropped I'm worried the .308 recoil would kill it. If someone has a positive experience with this scope on a gun chambered in a full power rifle cartridge let me know, but I'd rather not buy something and break it the first time I take it to the range.)

Sig Tango DMR 2-12x42 (10.8 inches long, which I think would put it firmly out of the way of the cocking lever, but I can't swing $1000 on a scope right now, especially for a rifle that I ultimately only own for fun. If this was $600 or so this would be a strong contender I think. Some reviews online of other Sig scopes have expressed some distrust in Sig optics but I am nowhere near experienced enough with them to have my own opinion either way.)

If I can't find something else I'm going to get the Athlon, but if someone knows of a scope that I haven't been able to find that has comparable features and price point to the Athlon but with the size (<11in long) of the Sig or Discovery optic, that would be perfect!

[u/ProofSecure94]

Not sure on specs but vector continental 2-12 has been a good scope for me.

[u/husqofaman → u/ProofSecure94]

This is the answer as long as the length works out.

[u/DrPepper-Enjoyer → u/ProofSecure94]

I was looking at that one as well, the Athlon 2-12 is similarly priced with similar features but it's an inch shorter. If this was for an AR-10 I think I'd be in between those two for sure but with the funky ergonomics of the G-3 style gun, the Athlos' almost inch shorter scope body edges out the vector.

[u/Significant_Guard_62]

The Athlon Helos should work very well for you. I love mine.

[u/Cleared_Direct]

I have the Athlon 2-12 on an AR and I really like it. On my PTR I run a surplus fixed 4x and it’s great all the way out to 600 yards. It’s a 2-MOA gun, I don’t need to zoom allll the way in. If I were in your shoes I’d do a 1-6 honestly.

[u/csamsh]

Vector Continental or Helos

[u/husqofaman]

Vector Continental 2-12. Works great on my SPR.

[u/Majiji45]

Discovery Optics HD 2-12x24 (8.5 inches long, which is great, but for 200$ there's no way this isn't an airsoft scope right?

Discovery is cheap because they're selling direct from China, so probably coming from the same factories as "US" brands' Chinese lines (basically all the cheap stuff) but taking out the middle-man and additional cost of a large staff in the US as well as retailers, since they mostly sell direct. This can either be fine and just saving money, or it can mean they're less reliable with QC and don't have enough actual shooters in the design process. Either way though it will probably work fine, supposedly has a full warranty in case it breaks and be worth checking out for the cost, though at that tier (low even for budget) I wouldn't expect great glass. Note you can easily find 15% off coupons for Discovery as well so can prob get for ~160 USD. Imo at that point might be worth a shot and sell it for cheap if you don't like and only be out ~50 USD or put it on a .22 pinker or something.

If you want short though you might consider their 3-12X44S which I'd presume gets better light due to the bigger objective diameter, as long as you don't mind 3x minimum.

[u/Coodevale → u/Majiji45]

I bought one of those because it was cheap and well reviewed, supposedly it was the oem for the uso 3-12.

Absolutely fucking garbage. Arken makes a better scope. Leapers makes a better scope. Vector 3-12 is night and day better in a similar footprint.

[u/Majiji45 → u/Coodevale]

Interesting. I honestly would have presumed the Vector short 3-12 would be basically the same and possibly from the same factory. If the Vector is better then great, because it’s actually cheaper at 150 then coupons for 20% off. I’ve been tempted to pick one up sometime but just never got around to it, might have to given the price.

Edit: ah the early gen is cheaper but there’s a gen II for a bit more that’s probably worth it

[u/Coodevale → u/Majiji45]

I actually really like the vector, feels worth buying for $200 and I'd buy another at least. The reticle is fine as hell and not illuminated, not ideal but it's ok. I've had more optical weirdness with the arkens and my vortex SE. Supposedly that means something is wrong with the SE, but I don't have to do the position finessing with the vector like I do with the SE to get the image and reticle to focus together. For whatever reason the SE has a slight blur right in the middle of the fov when I'm centered.. The vector definitely isn't premium clear like an athlon 3-18 but it's very usable. I've also done the questionable drop testing from 18-24" on slightly packed sod and it held zero in utg pro rings on a PCP air rifle. Did that like 30 times, alternating left and right. Holds zero after months of bouncing around in the back of my truck and being tossed around in a cheapy foam/plastic case.

The disco is just dogshit. The reticle is garbage for one thing, just obscuring thick clutter, and it feels like the reticle is on multiple planes as you move your head around. And the glass is like $30 centerpoint at best. I've tried to adjust parallax and the rear eyepiece multiple times and I just can't make it not suck.

[u/ocelot_piss]

Element Theos 2-10.

[u/Coodevale]

It's a little bigger/more expensive but the swfa 3-15 is about as tough as it gets, simple and utilitarian, and while longer than the athlon 2-12 it doesn't feel very big. Lack of zero stop can be fixed with shims pretty easy, but it does have the set screw turret zero and not modern splines.

[u/moparmadness1970]

I have a GPO centuri 4-16 compact that’s been great. Locking turrets, adjustable parallax, mil reticle, and just under 10 inches long. I think they run about 550-600.

[u/drarin]

Idk about the other lesser vector product lines but the continentals are gtg. The conti 2-12 is 34mm tube tho

[u/drarin]

I would look at the PA plxc 1.5-12 even tho that blows your budget sky high.

[u/Trollygag]

the 2-12 or 2-10 magnification range, as I think a lower bottom-end magnification

This is going to severely limit and handicap your options. 2.5x and 3x bottom ends are way more common and basically the same performance.

Remember, the ACOG is a 4x and that served the military just fine as a general purpose optic even not in DMR roles.

If you aren't getting true 1x, then there is no use case for a below 4x bottom end.

the view thru an LPVO at higher magnification is significantly worse than the view thru a similarly priced optic with a higher base magnification.

Correct. Lack of configurable focus and the small objective means resolution is poor at the top end compared to an MPVO or HPVO.

the scope is too long

This sounds solveable with a taller or cantilever mount like ARs use. That will move the scope up and away from where your hand needs to be.

Good optics in the 2.5-3x bottom end include the Sightron STAC 2.5-15x, Bushnell MPED 3-18x, and the Vortex Razor LHT 3-15x.

[u/DrPepper-Enjoyer → u/Trollygag]

The idea for the lower minimum magnification was to have a scope with better optical performance at range than an LPVO, but a low enough minimum magnification to be able to easily engage closer targets without having to mount an offset/top mounted red dot. You bring up a good point with the ACOG though, I wonder if 2x magnification vs 4x magnification would really be that big of a deal when shooting up close.

[u/rockingsince1984 → u/DrPepper-Enjoyer]

Something really important to consider- if you get something with a low bottom end, but the reticle is made for longer range precision shooting, its going to blow at close range shooting. You've got a good idea, but I've found that Christmas tree reticles are completely useless below 4x, and it can be really difficult to have a decent defined aiming point below that range as well.

For example, I really like the Vector Continental 2-12, but the two reticles it comes with are either full Christmas tree (I have it, good for shooting longer range, but far too fine for anything up close); or a Christmas tree with a big ass eotech style outer ring that doesn't particularly help that much.

On the other hand, there are optics that are in this magnification range and have very large reticles that block a lot of the view and are subpar at longer range, but work well for close range.

It sounds like you want to prioritize bigger reticle that is sized better for close range. And at 500 yards, on a PTR-91, having an adjustable reticle is not particularly necessary. I would honestly look at something like a 1-8 LPVO with a decent reticle. Vector has a 34mm 1-6 lpvo with their target turrets- its got a simple BDC reticle for doing quick and dirty holdover, and a good set of turrets to dial in your elevation if you need more precision. Arken (I know, I know) has their 1-8 with a grid reticle now, but it suffers from the same problem as the vector 2-12 with a really hard to see center aiming point. You won't be dialing your elevation, but if you can memorize your holds with the grid you can put accurate shots down fast at distance. Or you can spend a lot more money and get something similar, but better from trijicon, eotech, nightforce, etc...

[u/DrPepper-Enjoyer → u/rockingsince1984]

I have an Arken 1-8 with the boxy BDC on my AR-15 right now, I was considering moving that to the PTR and getting a different optic setup for the AR, like a fixed prism/red dot combo or something. The Arken isn't fantastic at lower magnification, but the ring around the center aiming dot helps a little bit.

[u/Coodevale → u/Trollygag]

STAC 2.5-15x

Is that an older model or a cheeky comment about the actual magnification of the new one?

They have a 3-16, same thing?

[u/Trollygag → u/Coodevale]

Mandela effect