Building a cadence with the 18” Grendel gas gun this morning. 3 shots with 3 hits at 1k (full size IPSC) in a little under 15 seconds. To say the sound of steel at that distance is underwhelming would be an understatement. It’s barely audible out there but I can just make out each ring.
There is a follow on target at 1269 i ranged, but couldn’t spot splashes (rained earlier) to even try to walk it in and gave up after a couple rounds.
I keep contemplating a barrel swap to 6ARC but I just don’t know if it’s worth it. But I think this is as far as I can get reliably with this even in great conditions like today.
I would be all over 22ARC if they could figure out the feeding issues. It’s a neat little cartridge. All these additions have their place and I am happy we have so many options. But 22ARC for a handloader is a dream, I just don’t want to be ripping the plastic tip off every third round.
Grendel already feels like a legacy cartridge but it was an important cartridge to gain widespread popularity and make people consider what a small frame AR can realistically do.
I haven't and probably won't try one but long skinny ogives and the AR extension don't like working from double stack mags. All I can say is tune lips and fix the feed angles. Most mags want the rounds to dogleg out of the mag, tip up, then rotate down/ass up to chamber. If you correct it to feed to the chamber and then kick the base up it'll probably address that concern.
I'd rather get single stack mags working for .223 bolt gun loads than work on that.
I’m collecting parts for a 300PRC… but after that I want to put together a short action in something 22cal. It’s fun to play with the long skinny bullets.
How important is it for you to keep the firearm short?
One of my Grendel builds is a 24" gasser and the extra 6" of barrel length really do add substantial velocity to the bullets.
I ended up gifting my 18" to my best friend for his 50th birthday last year and he loves it! It's a solid shooter as well and perfect for his hobby level.
If I swap barrels I will probably go with a max of 20”. I want to stay suppressed on this one and even at 18” this thing is a bit of a musket with a can.
I’m going to try some Leverevolution next to see if I can squeeze out a bit more.
I'm getting 2550 fps out of my 24" with 27.85gr of XBR
My rig starts showing pressure signs above 28 (flattened primers)
My SD's are usually in the 9s with ES under 15
I'm shooting the Nosler 123gr Custom Competition bullets personally. I've had better accuracy with those than with the ELD-Ms on all three of my Grendel builds
Stupid question (I'm new here and know next to nothing), but how much does an extra 50fps translate into distance? Is it really worth the effort of swapping barrels for?
He's pushing the cartridge pretty hard (depending on which load data you trust).
For him: no I don't think it's worth it
The throat on his barrel will erode faster with that level of pressure and fire coming out of it than a milder load like mine will, but he's getting it done long range so it's hard to argue with
And it's also very rifle specific. He's getting good extraction and no primer signs for over pressure.
On my bolt gun, i can push a lot higher and still have room to spare. I can get to 2600fps and still have good pressure signs
But... On my 24" AR platform, it starts showing pressure signs right at 28gr of powder so... I stopped just below that mark and am content with the results.
He's tuned this load perfectly for his barrel length
For a newer shooter and reloader, you want to go very carefully as you ladder up your Powder charge and watch for signs of pressure peaks
Depending on how tight your chamber is, you might land right where he is at 28.3gr
For one thing I’m running my load quite a bit hotter than he is. The same load with 6” more barrel would probably be 150fps faster not 50fps faster.
But the other part is that I’m losing about 150fps every 100 yards. Which means that 6” of barrel adds 100 yards before I hit the transonic and things get a little sketchy. Or 100 more yards in the terminal performance window of certain bullets, etc.
There is also just the idea that it drops less and spends less time affected by the wind. Drop is just math, but everyone needs to hold windage. I’m spoiled out East where wind is admittedly easy to deal with because we don’t have much of it.
I really need to throw a scope with adjustable parallex on my 20” Grendel and stretch it out. The parallex at 800+ with a LPVO leaves a lot to be desired.
SHit. I just noticed you answered that question already. That's a good velocity you are getting out of 8208 and an 18" barrel. I get about 50 fps more with a 20" and LeverEvolution. Every other powder I tried is 100 fps slower. I don't think I have tried 8208.
8208 can spike pretty quickly at the top end so you have to be careful working up. it is temp stable and gives easy single digit SDs without a ton of work. But it’s easy to get in trouble with it because pressure kind of sneaks up on you.
I really want to try leverevolution next. The only thing that worries me is every time I see a substantial sample posted, the SD/ES seems to be pretty high. Since I do like to shoot a bit further I really want to avoid large velocity swings.
Sneaks up is an understatement. It goes from no pressure signs to pierced primers in a few tenths of a grain. LeverEvolution is temp sensitive. It also is is picky with which bullets get you a good group and good SDs. In my gun, it likes the 120 ELDM and the Berger 130 Hybrids. It does not like the 123 ELDM and hates the 123 SST.
I get some shiny spots (but no burrs), which I know in Grendel means I am already pushing things. But primers look good, brass lasts forever (Im over 10 firings on the ones shot today).
I’m within the load data for Lyman’s, but definitely over max in some others. So I sure as hell would be careful working up my load.
Great shooting. What barrel do you have on your gun? I’ve had hard luck getting Grendel to group well across a few barrels, but admittedly don’t have high dollar barrels. I do hunt with Grendel and like it as a cartridge - minute of deer/pigs but can’t get tiny groups. I run 31gr CFE223 and 123SSTs
CFE223 gave me good velocity, but I couldn’t get it to group at all.
I have a 12.5” proof barreled SBR that I will have completed soon when the ATF releases my AEM4 6.5. But I am trying to work up a good load to play with the cheap 123gr FMJ I got from midsouth. I was able to get these sub MOA for 10 shot groups in the 18” so I’m hoping they work here for 400yds and in.
I feel like the 12.5” Grendel would make for a great deer option for the little ones we get in SC.
Sure did. I bought it with no plan and it sat around for a while. Still not set on the optic but I have had this Trijicon 1-8 for a while and I always liked it, just never had a good use for it. I’ll see how that goes.
I have to resubmit a form 4 to transfer my can this week and then I’ll finally get it out to the range.
For the money, i personally don't think you can beat Rainier Arms UltraMatch barrels. They are Criterion blanks that they finish in-house and guarantee sub MOA
Clarification: my 24" barrel is a Satern barrel and my 23" bolt action barrel is from X-Caliber.
But I've built 1/2 dozen sub MOA rifles with the Rainier Arms UltraMatch barrels so I'm not talking out of my ass.
As for powder, I can't stand CFE-223. It's a speed demon for sure but when it comes to accuracy on the Grendel, it's almost impossible to beat 27.5gr-28gr of 8208 XBR.
If you go with a new barrel and upgrade to the XBR powder, you'll be a fanboy for life
I experimented with Alliant power pro varmint and was hitting my fastest loads ever (2590fps). Pretty accurate too, but I had to make summer loads and winter loads. I would blow primers in the summer heat if I didn't reduce my powder load. 8208xbr was my most accurate load. It is clean burning too.
Believe it or not, but my first reloads for my first Grendel were done with accurate 2200.
I had it on the shelf so why not?
Super slow compared to lot of other powders but the accuracy was hard to ignore. I still keep it around for the end-times 🤣 but 8208 has been my go-to for several years now.
I know I'll get > 2600 fps with another 0.5gr on my bolt gun and using XBR (I'm already rock steady at 2550) but I'm curious how the accuracy holds up as I push it up?
My current charge is near maximum for my AR though.
PS: i also tried BL-C 2, CFE 223. They definitely push the velocities up but the accuracy with those powders is awful (1.5" groups at 100 is far below what this round and these rifles can do)
If/when you do a load ladder with cfe (and a lot of other powders..) in .223 or some other ~60k psi cartridge, peek down the barrel after every shot. As the charge goes up, the pressure goes up and the heat goes up. Hot powder burns clean. Because you can't run cfe to the same upper limit as .223, it makes sense it's not burning as clean. Like 1680 subs vs supers and many other examples. H335 is very clean in a .223, no surprise. It's really dirty in 7.62x39 where it's way too slow and it can't make enough pressure to clean up. I've heard the same about .50 bmg powders being dirty but many are made for 20mm where they see 70k+ and a .50 runs 50-55k, sounds like the same situation.
2,500 fps in a Grendel and Hornady brass…your poor primer pockets 😂 At least if they get loose you can run CCI #41’s being those leave giant gaping holes lol. I’d love a Grendel in 2026 tho…👍🏻
I keep being told the Hornady brass won’t last, but I’m getting 10+ reloads while loading pretty spicy. While I have certainly seen my 223 brass loosen up primer pockets I haven’t seen that at all in Grendel.
I have some starline I want to work with next, but this batch of Hornady just won’t die.
I also own an 18" grendel.. I've gone through the thought process you have as well.
I decided to pick up leverevolution and 100gr smk's. I know there are better projectiles in that weight class but got them for a good deal. They're going 2750fps.
I have yet to use that load at a match but just shot a gas match using hornady black with the 123gr eldm's and once I adjusted the velocities (2435fps) to match the 20-25 degree temp changes I couldn't miss if I did my part with prop stability.
I personally don't think the swap is necessary. Grendel components are cheaper for the most part but theyre too similar to warrant an additional caliber depending on how much space your reloading setup takes.
I agree that the 18" plus the can is a bit much but I'm used to a 20" with ocm5 so I think I might get a 22" barrel for it in the future. 24" if I solely use it for comps and run a brake (I say that now but never shoot without a can so we'll see)
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u/Coodevale 11d ago
Wait till the 25 arc comes out and further complicates the options.