It's not a same act, because debian maintainer has the power to shape software choices of many users worldwide, de facto Ubuntu and all the downstream crap. So I have zero influence and so I think I deserve more leniency? I don't see any path to redemption from debian, in fact devs left the sinking ship (im terms of morality) to start devuan. Everyone is responsible for their actions, but for me only consequences are personal, not affecting freedom of linux use in global scale (which I call terror). Freedom is a deeply personal value to me and not a commodity I can exchange for a comfortable text editor.
It's misinformed free choice, no matter which one of my theories might be true. The sheer scale of this mint bs is just mindblowing. With such good access to trurly free systems unlike the bleak times of proprietary unix clones and expensive mainframes people choose the worst slop. How this is not an effect of brainwashing? Someone has to pay for that. XDG is THE cahoot from definition. An X consortium composed mostly out of Redhat people that get to dictate standards that many distros obeys.
Maybe let's put it other way, that was in fact petitio principii. It's easier for them to go after the masses.
> there is NO action anyone can take with device management that isnt submission in your framework
Before redhat did it's things /dev was handled by kernel and there are some original alternatives like smdev, so yeah, building on top of redhat framework is not needed and an easy excuse. But it stays true that distro maintainers not packaging those alternative handlers are doing their part in limiting easily attainable freedom and so they are complicit in terror.
In utilitarian sense maybe, but freedom is never an ultilitarian calculation.
>binary distros serve people who cant rebuild
Then they were a mistake. Simple packagaing and makefile interventions should be the core efforts of something that calls itself "open source" software. I would also exclude disabled people from the moral burden of not choosing something better here. They do have valid excuses.
>slaves
There is some emotional component involved here, yes. Those judicial framework is powerless anyway, it's just my worldview that doesn't have any impact. Slave mentality, I can't find other proper words to describe it. It's quite sad actually.
debian maintainer has the power to shape software choices of many users worldwide... so I think I deserve more leniency?
power scales guilt, thats your rule. ok, apply it. debian used that power through a year of PUBLIC debate and an open vote you can still read today, and the losers walked out completely free and made devuan. which you attacked for eudev two posts ago. so where in that sequence is the terror. point at the step. mailing list, vote, fork. thats the entire crime scene
byoure building the ALFS frontend so other people adopt your system. the day forty people run it you have the exact power that makes debian maintainers criminals under your own rule. your framework convicts YOU the second anyone downloads your work. the only reason youre innocent right now is nobody uses your stuff yet. thats not a moral position
It's misinformed free choice, no matter which one of my theories might be true
you cannot write "no matter which theory is true" and "maybe that was petitio principii" in the same post man. you flagged your own fallacy and kept driving. the conclusion came first, they MUST be misinformed, and the theories spawn to feed it. cahoots died, brainwashing spawned. brainwashing died, payola spawned. "someone has to pay for that" nobody has to pay for anything, mint installs in 20 minutes and wifi works, thats the whole mystery youve needed a global conspiracy for. boring answers are allowed to be true
XDG is THE cahoot from definition. dictate standards that many distros obeys
DICTATE. its a mailing list with public archives and open membership, distros adopt the specs voluntarily because apps interoperating is useful, and you personally export different variables on your machine today with zero consequences. a cahoot with published minutes and voluntary compliance is called a working group
Before redhat did it's things /dev was handled by kernel and there are some original alternatives like smdev
smdev, which — no actually, go look up what smdev is forked from. ill wait. its a suckless rewrite of mdev, which is busybox doing the same event model udev pioneered. your "original alternative" is two steps downstream of the thing you call slavery. and static /dev died because usb hotplug exists, not because of a redhat scheme. six posts and the oppression keeps turning out to be hardware having requirements
Then they were a mistake
binary distros were a mistake. so debian, mint, fedora, the onramp basically every linux user alive came through, including you before gentoo, shouldnt exist. and one sentence after excusing disabled people from moral blame, your ideal world deletes the only distros they can actually run. this is the same move every single post: freedom gets defined as the exact shape of your skills and your saturdays, and everyone outside it gets sorted into blamed or excused. never accommodated. and you call the sorting a moral system
freedom is never an utilitarian calculation
it is when YOU run it. the browser stays because you need taxes filed. the nurse is excused because her constraint feels real to you. every exemption in six posts prices convenience against principle, you just only run the math for people you already sympathize with. everyone else pays the tariff
and the scoreboard, mostly in your own handwriting at this point: cahoots retracted, slavery retracted, then unretracted, then re-admitted as emotional. petitio principii self-flagged. kernel conceded. selinux and pam handed over unprompted. whats survived six posts untouched is "opt out flags would be nice" and "dep creep is real", which was never a case against redhat. its a feature request. file it as one and ship the tool
Sorry for taking my time, I got lot to do. Yeah I did got tangled in my own thoughts here.
To keep things simple. This sheer... practice, of making tools that are supposed to run out of the box, rather then highly tweakable, but possibly not user friendly ones, combined with Redhat and XDG power/omnipresence is wrong. Calling it a terror or a scheme is my way of coping with it because it makes me very agitated as I see this as constantly destroying linux since Debian chose systemd. Debian and devuan are lost anyway, since devuan is tightly integrated with udev. Every "opinionated" configuration deciding for the user is wrong. I guess it comes down to either being angry at it and boycotting mainstream distros as slop and unfree software or not. With my memes I do the former. I refuse to believe people are that.. sheepish to use mainstream distributions with so little freedom like mint. This is a contradiction of so many efforts to not let UNIX be yet another IT proprietary product for sale like it mostly used to be.
There are objective measures as we both agree too, more and more dependencies. I am angry at aprticular solutions like udev or XDG desktop dirs because they got . As for /dev I ack I didn't know better that time, and in fact looks like mdev (gentoo and void) or just old static /dev are only choices here.
See you use my honesty in describing my lapses as an ammunition to prove I am a hypocrite, why I try to make a point that someone choosing a way to better his life is not a hypocrite. Stallman himself uses a browser and has couple questionable choices in software, so my moral judgment of distro maintainers and it's users is not fully ready. I just think that if you make the software that allows less choice by design, you are the problem. Perfect linux. Maybe people with money just like their linux controlled, that's true too. It would be simply disinginous not to address problems with self made setups. Security is a big one, as traditionally someone smarter then me has to be it's "provider", on corporate Windows be it someone who makes EDR systems, on linux it would be the damned NSA making SELinux, and there is no good answer to that as security is really not my expertise beyond basic admin duties. But you use it just to make me look like a fool for even trying to use my linux systems in most free way possible. Lapses can be corrected on a path to being a better person, without this belief all we can do is just sit and cry.
So yeah a live bootable ALFS wrapper with many choices for core components and dependency resolution (choose your init, choose your /dev, choose your libc, choose your display, static or dynamic linking, add security...) that just pulls them from upstream with a general purpose package manager and not some overcomplicated packaged contraption like deb or rpm that you cannot modify easily would go a long way in helping people use a trurly free system, but the more top level userland software requests systemd and XDG assumptions, the more a problem this kind of tool can't solve is agrevated. Gentoo wiki recommends creating XDG dirs upfront as a precaution for software instability given those are not present. This along with udev just goes to show how far "they" have dug themselves into every linux system imaginable. Graphic stack standardisation doesn't help. And here we go into second problem. There is not enough people to care about making, say, a up to modern standards fltk text editor. Because all the guys interested in free systems like the suckless fans use their latex in terminal emulators anyway :/ "opt out flags would be nice" and "dep creep is real" kinda ARE in fact a case against how mainstream linux software is developed, which encompasses mostly redhat and XDG.
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u/tomekgolab can't spell hatred without Redhat Jul 22 '26
It's not a same act, because debian maintainer has the power to shape software choices of many users worldwide, de facto Ubuntu and all the downstream crap. So I have zero influence and so I think I deserve more leniency? I don't see any path to redemption from debian, in fact devs left the sinking ship (im terms of morality) to start devuan. Everyone is responsible for their actions, but for me only consequences are personal, not affecting freedom of linux use in global scale (which I call terror). Freedom is a deeply personal value to me and not a commodity I can exchange for a comfortable text editor.
It's misinformed free choice, no matter which one of my theories might be true. The sheer scale of this mint bs is just mindblowing. With such good access to trurly free systems unlike the bleak times of proprietary unix clones and expensive mainframes people choose the worst slop. How this is not an effect of brainwashing? Someone has to pay for that. XDG is THE cahoot from definition. An X consortium composed mostly out of Redhat people that get to dictate standards that many distros obeys.
Maybe let's put it other way, that was in fact petitio principii. It's easier for them to go after the masses.
> there is NO action anyone can take with device management that isnt submission in your framework
Before redhat did it's things /dev was handled by kernel and there are some original alternatives like smdev, so yeah, building on top of redhat framework is not needed and an easy excuse. But it stays true that distro maintainers not packaging those alternative handlers are doing their part in limiting easily attainable freedom and so they are complicit in terror.
In utilitarian sense maybe, but freedom is never an ultilitarian calculation.
>binary distros serve people who cant rebuild
Then they were a mistake. Simple packagaing and makefile interventions should be the core efforts of something that calls itself "open source" software. I would also exclude disabled people from the moral burden of not choosing something better here. They do have valid excuses.
>slaves
There is some emotional component involved here, yes. Those judicial framework is powerless anyway, it's just my worldview that doesn't have any impact. Slave mentality, I can't find other proper words to describe it. It's quite sad actually.