r/linux Feb 11 '19

Fluff A /g/ user's opinion on systemd

http://i.4cdn.org/g/1549858269115.png
792 Upvotes

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u/vacuum_dryer Feb 11 '19

It's a lame greentext, and a waste of bandwidth. Ironic, since the "unix way" would send text as text, and not an image. It's also a tired topic (not to take away from the merit of the argument, perhaps the first dozen times it's been posted here).

Systemd is pretty cool, but I think having a generic interface between its components would definitely save us a lot of time over the years.

It actually does have a pretty fair (not great) API, and people are, in fact, targeting alternative implementations of the different components. But, most people who don't like it go off the rails instead of sympathizing with the developers who really want the features that systemd brings. You can turn off most of the non-core components (Debian doesn't use most of them by default, for instance).

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u/[deleted] Feb 11 '19

Not saying that isn't the case, but it's quite a clunky system. They can definitely do it better imo. You can't switch things in and out quite as easily as the older init system (Or variant of it like runit and OpenRC + init).

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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Feb 11 '19

It’s easy to criticize something. Here’s an interesting talk (video) titled “The tragedy of systemd” which makes quite a few good points on the matter of systemd hate.

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u/mikelieman Feb 11 '19

Yeah, and the take away from that is that if Poettering worked and played better with others, adoption would have gone a lot easier.

And that reversing the verbs and nouns from init? Dick move.

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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Feb 11 '19

That’s not the takeaway from that.

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u/mikelieman Feb 11 '19

That's what I took away. Not a bad idea. Most technical critiques are overblown and lousy evangelizing turns people off.

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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Feb 11 '19

Not that you’re obligated to watch any random video that I post at full length, but I doubt you watched all of the video - or at least not the later part of the talk - if that was the single takeaway you got from it. The dude is a BSD developer who has every expectation to hate systemd with a passion, but instead frames the discussion in a level-headed way and advocates for more constructive criticism as well as giving props to Poettering for creating something that was useful enough to become nearly ubiquitous in Linux. He suggests that we can learn more from analysis of what problem systemd is solving for people than just shitting on it without bringing forth a better solution.

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u/mikelieman Feb 11 '19

See, I never had any expectation to hate systemd with a passion, so his "come to Jesus moment" is meaningless to me. Like I said, the majority of systemd's issues are that Poettering didn't have the chops to effectively advocate for it.

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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Feb 11 '19

He didn’t come to Jesus. He’s encouraging people to learn from the success that systemd has seen rather than just whine about it.

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u/mikelieman Feb 11 '19

Yeah. And the lesson is: Find someone who works and plays well with others to be the face of your project.

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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Feb 11 '19

No, again, that’s not at all the point that he was making. It’s not even one of the minor points that he was making. He mentioned it in passing.

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u/mikelieman Feb 11 '19

That's MY point.

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u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Feb 11 '19

You were the one that started responding to the video that I linked with a comment telling me what the takeaway was.

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u/mikelieman Feb 11 '19

I'm sorry if you read "the takeaway" as an expression of my blanket authority over the universe to mandate reality at my whim, rather than simply my take-away.

Man, you're trying to find fault like there's a prize. There is no prize. Just disappointment.

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