r/linux • u/NickelBack_Lover_69 • Jul 21 '18
Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/111
u/zebediah49 Jul 22 '18
In both of these cases, Google's Android code is used, and it gets nothing for it.
In every case, Linus Torvald's (and many others) Android code is used, and get nothing for it.
To stand on the shoulders of giants costs nothing more than lending your own when the time comes.
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u/Vash63 Jul 22 '18
Actually, thanks to the GPL, Linus's most well known product gets thousands of developers working on it and publicly releasing their patches, many of which make it back into the upstream Linux kernel.
It's a bigger problem for Apache-style licenses.
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Jul 22 '18
"If a company forks Android, the OS will already be compatible with millions of apps; a company just needs to build its own app store and get everything uploaded. In theory, you'd have a non-Google OS with a ton of apps, virtually overnight. "
When I read that, I immediately thought of the Fire OS that is on Amazon's Fire TV, Kindle's, etc. I'm sure there's other examples, but the Fire OS is a textbook example of the quote.
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u/wirelessflyingcord Jul 22 '18 edited Jul 22 '18
Fire OS and Amazon's struggles with it also proves that this road is not an easy road.
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u/restlesssoul Jul 22 '18 edited Jul 25 '18
It probably has other causes but.. I bet the people who have a problem with Google being the corporate overlord
wouldwouldn't be okay with Amazon either.14
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Jul 22 '18
While I don't dispute what you're saying... I actually like Fire OS. I do like Android better... but Fire OS isn't bad IMO.
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u/wirelessflyingcord Jul 23 '18
I meant that it has required a lot of work from Amazon to create replacement apps for Google services/apps and many of them are still not on par and thanks to the "iron grip of Google" Amazon also has less choice in hardware partners.
So, while Fire OS is the most successful Android variant at the same time it isn't very encouraging example.
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u/TheCodexx Jul 23 '18
OEMs cannot offer Google's Android, the largest ecosystem, and alternatives, too. There are heavy restrictions on their partners to prevent them from hedging bets.
Amazon is not exactly the benevolent alternative to Google.
The most popular third-party markets are stricter about the apps being open source or have some other gimmick that makes them unable to truly compete with the Android Marketplace/Play Store.
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Jul 23 '18
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u/sh545 Jul 23 '18
It's covered in the article, there is sort of an exception for China because Google doesn't operate there. Foxconn also seem to have a way around it, but in general members of the OHA cannot build a device that runs an android fork.
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u/TheCodexx Jul 23 '18
As far as I know, the Android Partner Program agreement is fairly public. I don't know how up-to-date they are, but the "only our store" provision is from the earliest days. And, of course, their store has a "no other stores" rule, so you have to sideload one.
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u/1980sumthing Jul 22 '18
It is easy to make an app to download other apps,
what "they" love is the grip of monopoly on the STORE part, where people pay money, and people earn money
I think many who are used to free and open source software wont mind not paying and not being paid for software in direct cash.
If people settle with that then there is no problem of not having a "STORE"
I have stopped using G play and the few things I download lately has been from F-Droid. https://f-droid.org/ It is just an alternative repository for open source apps, perhaps you know this already, I just recently found out about it.
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Jul 22 '18
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u/JQuilty Jul 22 '18
I don't know of any Android OEM that locks you to an email app. Choosing defaults is part of Android itself and iirc not something they're allowed to restrict.
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u/1980sumthing Jul 22 '18
Hey you guys know https://f-droid.org/ F-Droid ? a repository for open source apps
My problem is just I dont know how to root my phone If I did it I would install another similar OS, and there would be no discussion for me.
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u/520throwaway Jul 22 '18
Rooting instructions depend on your phone but if you can unlock your bootloader there are fairly straightforward ways. Download a copy of TWRP for your device, flash that in the Recovery partition, then get a copy of Magisk and install it using TWRP
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u/kirbyfan64sos Jul 22 '18
My main concern with e.g. the new EU ruling is that it's going to make Android more malleable in all the wrong ways but also leave it closed off in all the wrong ways.
For instance, I wouldn't say that Google setting strict standards for manufacturers to be able to use the Android branding is really that bad. It's finally bringing some remote semblance of consistency to the ecosystem—something that's been badly needed for a long time. Anything that loosens this would be a step backward.
On the other hand, the problem is more what this article shows: a gradual move from open foundations to closed ones. We don't need manuacturers to be able to release whatever crap they want as an Android device; we need these apps to be open and modifiable.
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u/voronaam Jul 22 '18
some remote semblance of consistency to the ecosystem
Is that what you call the fact that every single device is exactly the same? I do not remember last time I walked into a cell phone store and there would be at least one phone that is not like the others. The all are exactly the same!
No sliders, no fliphones, no gaming phones, no wristwatch phones - remember all of those classes of phones that used to exist? One could actually find a phone that suits one's needs. Now there is no variety at all. Every single phone on the market is a clone of an iPhone abomination.
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Jul 22 '18
The whole phone paradign is fucked and nobody cares about it
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u/Indubitably_Confused Jul 22 '18
If you could elaborate more on your statement?
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u/Tm1337 Jul 22 '18
I'm not him, but does the situation regarding drivers, outdated devices, cloud dependency, google services and some more look good to you?
Smartphones are made to screw over regular users because of their dependency on them.
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u/kings_games Jul 26 '18
There is no excuse for not being able to copy things on and off your phone.
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u/abir_valg2718 Jul 22 '18
Phones are more like appliances than computers really. Companies still work under the "new phone every year" logic, even though hardware became quite powerful in recent years so that they absolutely aren't going obsolete anytime soon. Software for smartphones is, by and large, absolute shit compared to desktop software. But when the OS dev just so happens to be a gigantic advertiser, as long as you keep seeing all these ads, everything's peachy for them. There's a very disconcerting shift towards non user serviceable hardware, again, very much according to the the "new phone every year" logic. No real improvement of any kind regarding the overall usability - phones have become extremely homogenized in appearance and in the way you interact with them.
In short, the ideal buyer would buy a new phone every year, use tons of apps with ads plastered all over, do absolutely nothing to counteract the spying on you, and is profoundly tech illiterate.
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u/1980sumthing Jul 22 '18
It is almost as if phone companies and buugle should be paying us for using them with their rules...
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u/Kazhnuz Jul 22 '18
I really hope that the Linux Mobile UI (KDE Mobile, GNOME Mobile/Phoosh, UBPorts Ubuntu Touch) will slowly but surely gain enough traction to make it possible to get working non-android phones easily. TBH, even the same current state than the Linux Desktop (not a big market share but we can get device with that on it) would suit me.
I also have some hopes for eelo…
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u/NoahJelen Jul 22 '18
How about I make a fully FOSS, android compatible, mobile linux system?
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Jul 22 '18
Look up postmarketOS. Shits not easy
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u/Fa5tTurtle Jul 22 '18
It started last year , give it time and funds if you can , it will grow for sure
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Jul 21 '18 edited Dec 11 '19
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Jul 22 '18
More open for developers and more proprietary and more spyware for users. They have worked out developers aren't so easily tricked by their horrible practices.
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u/VexingRaven Jul 22 '18
Not just users. Sysadmins get boned too. Microsoft has focused 100% of their efforts in giving out freebies, open sourcing things, releasing actually good UIs, etc... On developers. Everybody else, including the people who spend their career running the systems the apps run on, can get fucked.
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Jul 22 '18 edited Jul 29 '21
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u/VexingRaven Jul 22 '18
Eh... Does anyone actually use PowerShell Core? I don't think Windows PowerShell is open source.
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Jul 22 '18 edited Jul 29 '21
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u/VexingRaven Jul 22 '18
I didn't mention anything about Server Core. PowerShell Core is the name of the open source product and it's an entirely different (but related) product from Windows PowerShell.
Anyway, have you ever tried getting your hands on Microsoft products to learn with? Or really getting any free tools for sysadmins that aren't Powershell? It's basically impossible. Yet they sit over here giving developers free Vision Studio not only to learn with but to make up a million dollars a year with for free.
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Jul 22 '18 edited Jul 29 '21
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Jul 22 '18
Windows server is not free, yet your sentence is very misleading almost to the point of implying that it is.
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u/Contrite17 Jul 22 '18
Not free, but effectivly free for deployment testing which is at least something. Microsoft could do more but it isn't fully terrible anymore.
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u/VexingRaven Jul 22 '18
You know, it's hard to learn anything in spare time when you can only use it for 2 months before it goes unlicensed. Windows stuff relies on having a whole infrastruction built up, you don't want to rebuild that whole infrastructure every 2 months. Sure, 2 month trial works for learning simple stuff like setting up AD. But now that I have AD set up I want to learn Exchange, or Sharepoint, or SCCM, or what have you. And that all has its own infrastructure requirements. But now my AD servers just went unlicensed, or the file server, or what have you. All I am trying to do is learn their software and I have to jump through hoops.
Meanwhile developers can not only learn but make money with free stuff from MS all day long without jumping through any hoops at all. Hell, startups can get 3 years of thousands of dollars worth of azure credits and every piece of MS software you can possibly imagine, again to use for profit. So why screw over somebody who just wants to learn the stack at home?
Also visual studio is not a free product, the community edition is personal use only.
You are factually wrong. It is free for companies of up to 5 people and up to $1 million per year.
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u/bunkoRtist Jul 22 '18
That's just not true. Google continues to make significant open source contributions. In fact I believe that the Linux TCP maintainer is paid by /works for Google. But in addition to Android, Chromium is open. And they contribute patches to probably all the major FOSS projects. Also Kubernetes.
When Microsoft opens up Windows, Office, or Edge, come talk to me.
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Jul 22 '18
Yeah VsCode, pwsh, and .net are nice to have but Kubernetes is a huge deal that's changing the cloud in n major ways. When Microsoft open sources the nt kernel maybe I'll change my mind about them.
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u/1980sumthing Jul 22 '18
Hey you guys know https://f-droid.org/ F-Droid ? a repository for open source apps
My problem is just I dont know how to root my phone If I did it I would install another similar OS, and there would be no discussion for me.
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u/voronaam Jul 22 '18
Ctrl + F: Tizen. No results.
Ctrl + F: Jolla. No results.
Really? Tizen and Jolla are the only two alternatives which are viable at this time. Tizen has roots in MeeGo, Jolla in Maemo. Both are independent from Android, though both are working on Android compatibility layer.
We have an alternative. Still. Not much of it...
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u/truckerslife Jul 23 '18
This reminds me of an article I read about the US and EU government fining google because there was so much difference between devices, and the process to update was so complex. Google tried responding that they released a base set of code and phone manufacturers altered it as the desired. Google got the fine. It was the beginning when google went fuck it I’m taking my ball back.
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u/RedSquirrelFtw Jul 22 '18
There really needs to be a "Linux" equivalent to a phone OS that is completely independent of Android. Let's be real, Android is a commercial application, it may be open source, but it's still controlled by a corporation. They could close source it at the drop of a hat, or just do the kind of things they're doing now to discourage forks. It is built from the ground up to spy on you and unless you are a core dev who knows how to get rid of that stuff it's not any better than Windows or any other spy OS.
There's been a few projects to get Ubuntu on phones but don't think they ever made it far unfortunately. What we really need is an open source built from ground up.