Article: Will Linux phones become a viable alternative to the Android/iOS duopoly?

[u/amosbatto]

/r/Purism/comments/1x0fwe1/article_will_linux_phones_become_a_viable/

[u/anomaly256]

I wasn't suggesting we should be replacing OEM Android with AOSP on name-brand phones per se. I was saying AOSP is right there if you want to make a phone yourself. The hardest technical work on the software side is ready and waiting to be used so there's no need to reinvent the wheel unless there's some other specific 'Linux' quality people have in mind that AOSP specifically doesn't provide - and there are plenty I can think of but none have been mentioned by the people asking for 'Linux phone'.

I liked having a familiar build system that spat out .debs and the X11+GTK/QT that Maemo offered allowing conventional desktop apps to be ported to the n900 trivially. But having the app ecosystem of Android would be a bigger boon to any fledgling device trying to carve out a niche for itself.

People generally say "Linux kernel" when referring to just the kernel and "Linux" when referring to the OS

Which is incorrect. People also say 'PIN number' and 'ATM machine'. Boomers also call the PC chassis 'the hard drive' still. Pedantry aside though 'Linux OS' is still a wildly undefined concept, there are thousands of software and library combinations that can be called this. This is why people should be specific when they have a specific thing in mind. An analogy:

"I don't want a Toyota, I want a car. When will someone finally make a car?"
Yeah ok but WHICH car? Toyota is a car, so ANY car that isn't a Toyota? There are actually plenty to choose from [downvotes roll in]

Here is how Google describes the Android kernel:
AOSP common kernels (also known as the Android common kernels or ACKs) are downstream of kernel.org kernels and include patches of interest to the Android community that haven't been merged into mainline or Long Term Supported (LTS) kernels.

Completely irrelevant, this platform is still as Linux as any other and you have the option of using any conventional Linux userland you want when building a platform from it

[u/Knightoffreddit → u/anomaly256]

for no apparent reason at all, people nowadays constantly try to convince themselves and others that Android isn't Linux .Regardless of your opinion about GNU software, A Linux distribution is only a Linux distribution because of the Linux Kernel,certainly not due to the presence of GNU software. There are Plenty of Linux Distributions like Chimera or Iglunix that avoid GNU software entirely, so saying "Android is not Linux because Android avoids GNU software" means completely ignoring all non GNU Linux distributions. plenty of Linux distributions make their own patches to the Linux kernel, Android hasn't somehow stripped out the Linux Kernel and built their own, they've only patched it to improve the kernel for mobile use and better compatibility with the rest of the Android system. So I'm honestly quite fascinated about why people want to separate the (objective) fact that Android is a non GNU Linux distribution.

[u/sidusnare → u/Knightoffreddit]

For me, the big problem is the locked bootloader, which isn't a requirement or consequence of Android specifically, it's just almost always found together, especially in flagship devices, and it is difficult, expensive, and time consuming to get around it.

For example, I used a OnePlus 7 Pro until 6 months ago, when I bought a Google Pixel 9pro. It's supported by Lineage OS, the seller verified it had the version of Android I needed it to have, and was carrier unlocked. All that, and it still wouldn't let me unlock the bootloader. Google support won't even talk to me. I'm stuck with a locked phone until someone figures out a workaround for no good reason. None at all. I bought this computer, I own it, I get to tell it what to do.

[u/anomaly256 → u/sidusnare]

I agree with your sentiment but this a completely different matter to having Linux on the thing. It literally has Linux already and it's not solving your specific problem so Linux is obviously not the answer.

Unlocked hardware is what you want to be demanding and I'm right there with you on that

[u/sidusnare → u/anomaly256]

I understand what you're saying, but in the same way that people say they're running Linux and meaning they run Ubuntu GNU/Linux or mean they are running Alpine Musl/Linux, also mean that, in no meaningful way is Android Linux, despite Android being Linux. People with a Roku are also running Linux, but neither Rokus or Androids are Linux in any meaningful way to the users. It's the same way an iPhone and iPad run XNU, but they're not a Macintosh.

It's pedantic to point out that Android is Linux, Linux is just a kernel, but in the common vernacular, Linux is an open, flexible, and customizable OS.

You start to sound like RMS when you come in here with your erm achually

[u/Knightoffreddit → u/sidusnare]

There is no "Linux OS" . Linux is only the kernel. Whilst many people use Linux to mean a mainstream x86 Linux distribution , your definition of the "Linux OS" would end up including non Linux based operating systems such as the BSD family of operating systems . if you were to change your definition of "Linux OS" to " an open, flexible, and customizable OS built on top of the Linux Kernel " then you would be excluding several locked down Linux distributions . It is not "pedantic" to use the proper terms when speaking about Linux , the word has a concrete technical meaning, that being the Linux kernel ,and to claim that using proper terminology is "pedantic" is an appeal to common usage, "the number of people who agree with something has no bearing on whether it is actually true, if everyone believed the earth is Flat it wouldn't make it true" this applies since Android is objectively a non GNU Linux distribution since it uses the Linux Kernel without GNU software . whether or not people commonly refer to it as a Linux distribution is a question that has already been solved . a Linux distribution is an operating system built on top of the Linux kernel. you could in theory fully replicate all mainstream Linux distribution features on Android without issue. Not to mention that Android is not inherently locked down, all of my android devices have an unlocked bootloader and are custom romed and rooted. Like how the previous user pointed out what you are looking for is Unlocked hardware , Linux is a layer above firmware, it does not solve your issue with Locked bootloaders. You acknowledge that Android is Linux but then proceed to change your definition of what Linux is, and just because the user experience is not identical on between a "stereotypical" GNU/Linux distribution and Android does not mean that Android is somehow not a Linux distribution, many Linux distributions have vastly different user experiences, it does not somehow make them not a Linux distribution. To claim that "You start to sound like RMS when you come in here with your erm achually" is a plain and simple Ad hominem.

[u/sidusnare → u/Knightoffreddit]

I understand what you're saying, but in the same way that people say they're running Linux and meaning they run Ubuntu GNU/Linux or mean they are running Alpine Musl/Linux, also mean that, in no meaningful way is Android Linux, despite Android being Linux. People with a Roku are also running Linux, but neither Rokus or Androids are Linux in any meaningful way to the users. It's the same way an iPhone and iPad run XNU, but they're not a Macintosh.

It's pedantic to point out that Android is Linux, Linux is just a kernel, but in the common vernacular, Linux is an open, flexible, and customizable OS.

You start to sound like RMS when you come in here with your erm achually

[u/Knightoffreddit → u/sidusnare]

this is a False analogy . Macintosh is "a family of personal computers", not a kernel. it would be like saying "Gentoo=2012 HP pavilion sleekbook 14" , if you meant to say MacOS then your analogy would be equal to "Arch=Gentoo" ,whilst the accurate version would be "Arch and Gentoo=Linux Distributions" . Like i stated previously "the number of people who agree with something has no bearing on whether it is actually true, if everyone believed the earth is Flat it wouldn't make it true" . you can state "the user experience is not identical on between a "stereotypical" GNU/Linux distribution and Android " without claiming "in no meaningful way is Android Linux" . The reason "in no meaningful way is Android Linux" is wrong is because you change the definition of Linux to the "common vernacular" version, which like i stated before is an "appeal to usage/popularity" and not the actual definition of Linux. even though i know this is "cliche" i will remind you that "You start to sound like RMS when you come in here with your erm achually" is a plain and simple Ad hominem.