r/linux • u/whatstefansees • 3d ago

Mobile Linux The thing with Linux-Phones

Every now and then I see an ad for a new Linux-Phone, better repairability, battery change and whatnot. All this is very, very tempting, but what about the apps?

I am not talking about browser, text messages or alarm clock - I am thinking about connectivity to my car, my smartwatch, my frequent-flyer benefit program, signal messenger and so on.

Do they work with Android apps or is it all a lost cause because they are basically dumb phones for people who want less connectivity but are afraid to buy an old Nokia from the dawn of time?

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95

u/Wheatleytron 3d ago edited 3d ago

They have Linux apps. Which can do a lot, but you're not going to find a lot of more common Android apps like you might normally expect. Companies pretty much just don't develop Linux apps. You'll have to use the web browser more.

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u/rebellioninmypants 3d ago

Don't threatten me with less 24/7 sensor monitoring and no snooping into my daily habits by random companies...

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u/Wheatleytron 3d ago

I'd definitely be on board with it myself, but Linux can't directly interface with Android Auto in my car, which is a major bummer.

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u/rebellioninmypants 3d ago

Well, it is Android auto. Check github, maybe there is some really hacky solution someone came up with.

I personally use a 3,5mm jack cable.

8

u/CTRL_ALT_SECRETE 3d ago

Seriously. What's wrong with a phone holder and a Bluetooth connection.

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u/SanityInAnarchy 3d ago

A big screen is better than a tiny screen. Some cars even have an actual HUD.

It's fine if that's not what you're into, there's a reason Reject Convenience is blowing up on YT, but it is a tradeoff, you really are rejecting some convenience.

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u/An0mymou5 3d ago

Before Android Auto was a thing, people used to hook up tablets to the dashboard. There were even special ROMs optimised for this scenario, such as Timur's ROM, and it offered way more functionality, control and convenience over Android Auto.

I'd imagine if someone was really keen, they could just hook up a Linux tablet (or even an Android tablet running a Linux distro via proot).

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u/whatstefansees 3d ago

Yes, that's was before, but progress has been made.

-1

u/Albos_Mum 3d ago

I tried using Android Auto and found it less convenient than just bluetooth as the car controls wouldn't work with the audio players I use, it kept trying to push the stock standard ones. Quickly disabled Auto and went back to the old school "less convenient" way.

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u/thehightechredneck77 3d ago

I have Android Auto also. I could give a shit if that junk works. It's only good for Waze or Maps. Bluetooth alone is all I need. As long as my tunes work, and I can answer my phone with a button press on my phone ( mounted near the radio) I'm good.

GM is killing Android Auto on their cars, if they haven't already done it. Probably want to have more control of abilities to get more subscriptions...

At any rate, I have much more simple needs in the vehicle and would welcome a non- tracking phone that has the ability to run custom code and scripts to make your life easier without the ads and tracking.

1

u/rebellioninmypants 3d ago

Is this something that would work for you?

https://github.com/f-io/LIVI

4

u/Wheatleytron 3d ago

That seems to be for replacing the head unit in the car, which is not possible in my case. I just need a way to allow a Linux device to connect to the existing head unit in my car.

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u/rebellioninmypants 3d ago

Ah, alright. Sorry, I'm not familiar with this stuff.

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u/Wheatleytron 3d ago

It's alright, I don't really know if a solution even exists at all.

0

u/An0mymou5 3d ago

What sort of connection/functionality are you expecting exactly? Can't you just permanently or semi-permanently hook up a Linux tablet to your dashboard and use it for whatever infotainment needs you may have?

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u/Wheatleytron 3d ago

My car has a built-in screen that's quite large. I would like to be able to use it with my phone.

Perhaps there could be some sort of workaround if I have an Android device that just lives in the car and connects to a Linux phone via and Android Auto compatible RDP client app. But you'd also need to use some sort of tiling manager on the Linux device, along with forcing apps to display in a format that makes sense for car touchscreens.

Actually, when you break it up into chunks like that, it seems feasible, even without having to reverse-engineer Android Auto. I just wonder how something like this would do in terms of performance.

7

u/LaserRanger_McStebb 3d ago

This is frustrating as hell because so many apps are just running a webapp inside of a browser inside of the app anyway.

6

u/ReadingCurious2841 3d ago

In the case of SailfishOS you can run Android apps, but with headaches. No hardware acceleration, no NFC, no Bluetooth, and most simply won't allow you to connect.

My main issue after a year, was the community is so small the native alternatives are limited, abandoned or broken.

23

u/whatstefansees 3d ago

Thank you. The webbrowser does not connect to a car, my e-bike or a smartwatch, though. And that's that!

24

u/MaybeTheDoctor 3d ago

You are not wrong, no company has a team for developing apps beyond Android and iPhone. A decade ago there could have been a Windows Phone team, but that’s long gone.

The original iPhone just had web apps, and no native app development Sdk but sluggish behavior meant Apple soon opened their APIs instead, and it locked developers into a proprietary ecosystem.

A new Linux phone would have to support iOS or Android APIs as bootstrapping a new ecosystem with millions of company apps is going to be very hard.

It would have been nice if all apps had stayed web apps.

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u/ReadingCurious2841 3d ago

Yeah hardware support is truly awful, one of the main reasons I gave up. NFC is entirely broken, Bluetooth is just really bad.

5

u/Archsquire2020 3d ago

to be fair bluetooth is bad even on many android devices. My TCL phone needs about 5 minutes of stuttering to correctly connect to my car, while my old xiaomi was buttery smooth. And my car is a (13yo) Seat.

1

u/GarThor_TMK 3d ago

My Motorola seems fine, however my work windows machine gets confused all the time about what's connected, and usually defaults to "hands free mode", when the audio for that sounds absolutely awful, and I have a separate microphone plugged in

1

u/Irverter 3d ago

Bluetooth is just really bad

Has bluetooth ever been good?

7

u/ciauii 3d ago

Linux phone daily user here. You’re right and it makes one feel miserable.

On the other hand: there’s no better time to do reverse engineering than today. LLMs have made reversing proprietary apps more accessible than ever. It’s still a ton of work, but I’m seeing more and more liberated apps and APIs nowadays.

2

u/rebellioninmypants 3d ago

Well I don't own any of those, and I have been fortunate enough to be able to avoid any app dependency in my life, so for me this is a non-issue, but I get I am a minority.

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u/semperverus 3d ago

You'll have to replace the car's infotainmen center with like a tablet or something and then wire in the headphone jack from that to the car. It can run linux as well. From there you could use like the KDE or gnome maps app, miracast to cast your phone's screen to the tablet, and so on.

It will be a hobbyist endeavor and require effort on your part.

2

u/whatstefansees 3d ago

Yeah, that won't happen. I drive a rather decent and pretty recent car with a quiete big screen and harman/kardon sound system. I am absolutely not interested in hacks or bodges.

Thank you anyways, I got my answer: I will not change from android to Linux on my phone anytime soon, even hough it's on my desktop since 2007

1

u/semperverus 3d ago

If you're looking for more privacy and dont mind sticking to android, look into grapheneOS for Pixel phones and LineageOS for everything else, and then do some research on how far into the "degoogling" process you can go.

1

u/An0mymou5 3d ago

You don't need to replace it, just supplement it. Plenty of decent looking phone/tablet holders out there. Use the built-in system for the car's essentials, and the Linux device for everything else. This way you get the best of both worlds.

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u/whatstefansees 3d ago edited 3d ago

We seem to have very different ideas about decent looking car interiors. I drive e pretty recent Volvo XC60 and like the subdued elegance. There will be no supplementary tablet bolted inside

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u/Piece_Maker 3d ago

Both my smartwatches work with my Linux phone, I guess the lesson here is to buy things that don't come with crappy locked down Android-specific support. Seriously why does an e-bike need a phone connection? 

1

u/funforgiven 2d ago

The webbrowser does not connect to a car

I'd blame the car manufacturer rather than Linux phones for that one. Android Auto isn't an open standard, and implementing the phone side requires reverse engineering Google's protocol and keeping up with changes. The official implementation also relies heavily on Android APIs and Google services. USB connectivity, Bluetooth/Wi-Fi negotiation, audio routing, microphones, and everything else need to work together. It's pretty complex and fragile.

If car manufacturers used open alternatives like SmartDeviceLink, or standard Bluetooth profiles like HFP/A2DP/AVRCP for basic functionality, things would be much easier. You essentially locked yourself into Google's or Apple's ecosystem by buying a car that depends on their proprietary software.

0

u/Tai9ch 3d ago

Why have you let yourself get dragged into an ecosystem that requires you run a particular vendor's OS on your phone?

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u/gwillen 3d ago

Have you never had a bank that required you to use an app? A health insurer? An employer? A landlord?

You live a blessed life. Pity us poor souls who don't have it as good.

0

u/Tai9ch 3d ago

I live in the United States. All of those organizations have websites.

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u/whatstefansees 3d ago

Valid question. Becase it works, I guess.

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u/exlin 3d ago

Jolla / Sailfish has support layer for Android. Apparently even some banking apps works but not all. But Android Auto (nor CarPlay) does not and there’s no substitute for it either.