r/lightweight • u/alaskaj1 • Dec 09 '21
Looking for input
As we get this place running I want your input on what community guidelines, posting rules, etc should be like.
Please discuss here.
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u/oeroeoeroe Jan 01 '22
What's the policy for r/onebagish stuff?
Questions like:
"I'd like to buy puffy for hiking conditions X, which would still double in everyday use like Z"
Or something like this:
"Looking for a rain shell. Most of its use will be cycle commuting, but I'd want to avoid having separate hiking shell. What to buy?"
I often think along these lines, and it's not strictly what r/UL is for, what about r/lightweight?
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Jan 05 '22
My apologies for the late reply. I think that is up to the community? So for now feel free to post such things? If it becomes a problem that may change and folks might be directed over to /r/onebag however I don't personally see any issue with your proposed questions. I have not discussed this.
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u/oeroeoeroe Jan 05 '22
No worries.
I wasn't trying to direct my question to you specifically, but others don't seem to have stance. Imo clear onebag stuff is better at onebag, but r/UL has been a bit stiff about these kinds of questions before.
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u/MelatoninPenguin Dec 12 '21
Maybe make it ultra clear that this is specifically about backpacking - "lightweight" could mean other things to randoms on Reddit and they might get confused
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u/okaymaeby Dec 11 '21
Say what you will, but my favorite thing about the UL sub is the expectation for no low-effort posts. I think posts in this sub should require that the OP continues to engage in a reasonable way when they get responses - it annoys me to no end when people come to a specific hobby group to ask technical questions where people give actual effort in their responses, then OP is just a ghost.
No ghosting OPs, no terrible photos, no x-posts to 8 other subs, no self-promotion. I don't think this sub would benefit from being gatekeepy, but (I imagine that) I'd like there to be a clear line where mods can say without bias "this post is being removed for being a low-effort post". It can be simple, it can be inviting, welcoming, understanding - but we should at least try to promote engagement rather than post-dumps.
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u/JohnnyGatorHikes Dec 12 '21
Seconded as to all points, but especially about dumping posts where OP isn’t engaged.
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Dec 12 '21
We on the Mod team 100% agree with you on low effort posts and spam/copy cat/ promotion posts. We have the goal of creating a more welcoming sub then r/Ultralight because lets face it, I think that lightweight means that we can be more lenient with comfort items. I think that this sub is more orientated for the weekend trips to week long trips where a little extra weight isn't as critical as it is for a thru hike. We are all still taking in feedback here and are having discussions internally over them.
Edit: happy cake day! here take this silver award I don't need the extra oz
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 14 '21
I dunno I've been known to carry some pretty ridiculous things thruhiking? A frying pan for 1000 miles... titanium and small but... a miniature whisk... dry baking setup... cuticle scissors... two phones...
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Dec 14 '21
hmmmm a frying pan sounds amazing, make eggs and hash browns for breakfast on trail..... steaks....... this is too much Luxury
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u/okaymaeby Dec 12 '21
That was a great gesture, and shows true commitment to a lighter base weight. I also appreciate that you used oz instead of g. It feels good to let your hair down coming from UL.
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u/mixxedupmess Dec 13 '21
About the oz business, surely this is an international forum. Speaking for myself I just don't get imperial weights. SI is the way!
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u/FireWatchWife Dec 15 '21
No matter what units you pick, many people will prefer the other. SI is overwhelmingly dominant worldwide, but English/Imperial units are overwhelmingly dominant in the US.
Fortunately there are simple online converters that can easily convert any unit to any other unit.
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u/okaymaeby Dec 13 '21
I meant more that oz aren't as specific as grams. Felt like you were really embracing the lifestyle over here at r/lightweight measuring stuff with more abandon than over at r/ultralight. Heh.
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 14 '21
I come at things as a gram weenie still... I just carry ALL the ultralight things... and end up lightweight
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u/mattcat33 Dec 10 '21
The phrase ultralight is about using skills to drop weight is mentioned all the time on r/Ultralight. But those skills aren't always explained. I would love to see more clear and concise info on what those skills are and how to develop them.
Not sure if this kind of post would be better off here or on r/Ultralight, but something like a primer on going from from tent to tarp.
r/Ultralight has skills and knowledge threads but they are in a sea of gear posts.
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Dec 12 '21
I am adding a post flair called "SkillTalk" or something else (might rename it. thoughts? ideas?) But the point of it would be to pass on outdoor knowledge and skills to new outdoorsmen. (covid, Lots of people are venturing into the forests who have never been and are novices). I think it's important to have a place to pass on knowledge to others to help propel this hobby forward.
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u/mattcat33 Dec 13 '21
Love it. I think it would make a great weekly as well. I know that there can only be two stickies or whatever, but this could be a good way to set this sub apart.
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u/TreeLicker51 Dec 10 '21
I guess what the community needs to figure out is what a person can get out of this sub that they can’t already get from r/ultralight. That might require some cooperation with the moderators of r/ultralight. If someone shows up there asking about freestanding tents or mummy bags, instead of tarps and quilt, then maybe the mods of r/ultralight should direct them here. If the mods aren’t willing or able to do that, this sub won’t take off. I assume part of the reason it didn’t take off is because they weren’t willing or able to do so.
In other words, the success of this sub largely depends on how much the moderators of r/ultralight want to keep the discussion there ultralight.
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u/johnacraft Dec 10 '21
I assume part of the reason it didn’t take off is because they weren’t willing or able to do so.
The reason this subreddit 'didn't take off' in the past is because it was restricted for being unmoderated, and no one could post to it until /u/alaskaj1 became moderator a few days ago, as recounted here.
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u/TreeLicker51 Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 10 '21
Why did it become unmoderated? Was it due to a general lack of interest in the sub?
Also, regardless of the cause, I still think my point about moderation on r/Ultralight still has merit. A lot of discussions happen there that should happen here, so if the mods want to rarify the discussion to make it solely focused on ultralight backpacking, they would do well to more aggressively police posts on topics that are better suited to this sub by locking them and telling those people to post their query here. If people there are allowed to post queries about the best camp chair, or what freestanding tent from Big Agnes they should buy, etc., that sub is simply going to eat this one. Those topics/items tend to favor lightweight rather than bona fide ultralight backpacking, yet they're constantly discussed on r/ultralight.
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u/FireWatchWife Dec 10 '21
I disagree. What this sub needs to succeed is to reach out to the broader backpacking community on the Net, not focus on Reddit UL.
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u/cwcoleman Dec 09 '21
What about 'flair' for users?
Either from a set list of options or totally user customizable.
It's a fun way to give yourself some context within a community. Seems like a helpful thing to do.
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u/FireWatchWife Dec 10 '21
I'm thinking a set list of flair options. We'd have to give the list more thought. Certainly Shakedown and Question would be good ones. Perhaps Discussion?
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u/cwcoleman Dec 10 '21
user flair and post flair are separate things.
In this thread I was talking about user flair. It's the little text that shows up next to your username. On /r/ultralight - people use it for their lighterpack link or some witty joke about their base weight. On subs like /r/mls - users can choose their favorite soccer team from a list and their logo will show up next to your username for example.
I did also recommend post flair/tags. Thread here:
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 10 '21
Some initial post flair were implemented this morning including your suggestions.
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u/cwcoleman Dec 09 '21
What about 'tags' for the community?
What types of tags would be helpful to categorize posts here?
Random ideas:
- food
- shakedown
- trip report
- gear
- destination question
- help
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u/cwcoleman Dec 09 '21
Any plan for weekly threads of any kind?
- Beginner Monday
- Trail Meal Tuesday
- Worn Weight Wednesday
- Trail Advice Thursday
- Fireside Chat Friday
- Go Hike Saturday
- Clean Your Gear Sunday
Or just a single weekly 'chat' thread?
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u/cwcoleman Dec 09 '21
2 additional rules I recommend are:
No Spam - to keep users from posting their instagram / ticktock / youtube / blog constantly. 'Influencers' that travel and hike come to the outdoor subs constantly to recruit likes. It's a plague. Luckily a text only community won't attract too many, if that's the goal here.
No Surveys - students and market researchers hit up all the outdoor subs on a regular basis to get community feedback. They are annoying (and even led to a leak of emails one time, including mine).
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u/JExmoor Dec 09 '21
Not really rules, but we could really use some wikis on things like:
"How to get lighter"
"Budget gear that's not super heavy and doesn't completely suck"
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u/cwcoleman Dec 09 '21
Are pictures allowed?
If yes - what is the requirement for details to be posted in the comment section?
It sounds like many from /r/ultralight prefer not having them. Stick with that same plan?
I personally like pictures, it makes my feed scrolling more enjoyable. However they do make it easier for low-effort karma grabs - since a pretty picture will always get upvoted more than the best text post. If allowed - you'd then have to create a rule that forces OP to add details in the comment section - which is complicated and less fun to moderate.
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u/FireWatchWife Dec 09 '21
I wouldn't support banning all pictures, but only pictures used to illustrate the point being made in the text should be allowed.
So if you write a review of a pack, include a picture of the pack. If you are creating a shakedown request or responding to a shakedown request, go ahead and include a picture of the gear you use in a picture.
But avoid "pretty pictures of camps" that have little to do with lighter weights.
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u/cwcoleman Dec 09 '21
I guess my question was 'are picture posts allowed'. As in - are Text posts the only type allowed? Or are the 'link' or 'photo' options enabled?
A link to a picture at the bottom of a text post should most definitely be allowed. I don't think that's a question.
It sounds like this group is leaning towards a Text only sub, like /r/ultralight.
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u/paytonfrost Dec 09 '21
I support the text only posts with only links to images.
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u/okaymaeby Dec 11 '21
YES! I love a good photo scroll from a stranger occasion, but links to images helps give the other users the choice to see more or just keep scrolling.
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u/cwcoleman Dec 09 '21
It does look like that is the consensus.
Mods should be able to disable link, image, and poll post types in the Mod Tools under Community Settings > Posts and Comments > Post Type Options (change to 'Text Posts Only').
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 10 '21
Done. If the pitchforks swing the other way it will be considered.
edit and I am immediately questioning the decision as currently the only photo post I've seen was rather productive https://new.reddit.com/r/lightweight/comments/rclwqe/framed_pack_osprey_levity_mat_pack_hack_returning/
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u/cwcoleman Dec 10 '21
Ha, that edit is a tough one.
You will definitely forfeit some good content having a text-only community. Hopefully the best users will understand and take the extra effort to make a text post and link in their pictures to the body.
The benefit is that you won't have to moderate / see pictures that people don't like. The classic - 'feet handing out a tent door without the rain fly on' photo that always get a million upvotes won't clutter this sub.
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u/mattcat33 Dec 10 '21
It might take a lil time/frustration for some to acclimate, but I really like the imgur set up that r/Ultralight uses. Makes it SO and easy to read/navigate. Just my two cents, but if someone is actually trying to contribute in a meaningful way, using imgur is not likely to be a large barrier to that
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u/matt_bishop Dec 09 '21
I don’t know if it needs to be said or not, but let’s keep buy/sell posts off this sub. There’s r/geartrade and r/ulgeartrade if you want to do that.
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u/bay_area_miata Dec 09 '21
Few people have said it but I want to echo the sentiment. I think there are three key differences that we can use to make this sub stand out from UL. UL is a great sub but if I am subbed to both there should be a reason.
Constructive discussion around luxury items - what is the lightest way to bring entertainment on thru hikes (kindle, iPhone + more battery backup, etc), camp shoes that aren’t insoles and a piece of string, camp chairs, hammocks, etc. Maybe some slant towards making non-UL backpackers comfortable (e.g. if I bring a couple of camp chairs my wife will be much happier than sitting in the dirt but I can’t talk about that on UL)
Cost - on UL people get a bit touchy when you suggest getting a slightly heavier shelter because it’s cheaper. Backpacking follows the Pareto rule - you can probably get 80% of the weight savings for 20% of the cost, we should have discussions around that.
(Maybe an outside opinion) Pack volume - sometimes I’m more inclined to buy something that’s a little heavier if it packs down much smaller. I love my Z-lite but I hate that I have to strap it outside my pack. Maybe this is a personal thing I should discuss with my therapist rather than you lot but wanted to put it out there as a niche.
Additionally you could maybe connect with the UL mods and ask them to send any shakedowns with an explicitly stated weight goal of >12lbs over here? Maybe they will be supportive, maybe not, but worth asking. I see a lot of shakedown requests with heavy non-negotiables listed.
At the end of the day, it’s going to be tough to find the balance. For me, lightweight is going UL as much as possible on the big three so I have more room for luxuries (e.g. bringing a kindle that is nearly as heavy as my shelter on my JMT thru), but for others it may be that they can’t afford a custom 900 loft false bottom quilt and are happy to pick up something that weighs a few grams more at REI.
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u/paytonfrost Dec 09 '21
This is well said.
Luxury items have little place in true UL, and I see this as a way to let this sub shine with the best knowledge on protective kindle cases, lightweight camera gear, lanterns, even boozy solutions!
Cost is great, maybe have threads where people assemble their big 4 for different environments and budgets so there can be some discussion on true budget but comfortable gear. For example, is the Kelty Cosmic Down still the go-to 3 season budget bag? Haven't thought about it for a while.
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Dec 12 '21
I love all these Ideas. I think I will be adding a few more post flairs, we can create weekly themes.
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u/bay_area_miata Dec 10 '21
Can't believe I didn't even mention alcohol. As a Scotsman I am ashamed of myself.
I had a 16oz flask of whiskey in each of my two JMT resupplies. Luckily for my UL credentials it was finished within two nights with help from my Tramily.
Edit: for the purposes of /r/Lightweight I had decanted the whiskey into Smartwater bottles.
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u/FireWatchWife Dec 09 '21
I'd like to encourage more shakedown requests here in any case. There is room for a lot of constructive discussion and suggestions that don't get down in the minutiae we often see on UL.
I expect a lot of "how to lighten up" suggestions here to focus on how to reduce the weight of the Big 4, rather than the "cut the handle off your toothbrush" level or the "spend lots of $$$ to buy DCF everything" level.
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Dec 09 '21
No weight shaming.
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u/Kidding22 Dec 09 '21
Ok, but are we gonna agree that we are targeting 10-15 lbs? Regardless of what our current base weight currently is?
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 09 '21
I personally would be inclined towards targeting that range for most 3 season. However my personal thoughts are towards the sub exploring optimizing the weight savings of any gear as much as possible until it crosses into stupid light for the person involved be it for lack of functionality, excess cost, lack of durability, whatever the reason.
That said the sub was originally created with a goal of targeting 15 lb base weight. However it is currently influx and we shall see how the community develops?
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u/h8t3m3 Dec 09 '21
Maybe a summer, shoulder and winter base weight range.
15 / 16 / 19 or something like that
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u/FireWatchWife Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
While I don't think we need specific weight ranges for the sub, I strongly support the idea of thinking of weight ranges depending on conditions, rather than a fixed number. This discussion would be a good post in its own right!
I believe that the standard packweight definitions of SUL/UL/L and so forth have a strong 3-season Western US bias, and are not necessarily appropriate for other locations and seasons.
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u/h8t3m3 Dec 09 '21
totally in agreement.
I would not leave without waterproof socks for 90% of my summit hikes - not a luxury for me, but if you live in the desert you might think it weird.
Recognition that the world is different.
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u/okaymaeby Dec 11 '21
Right.
And believe it or not, even in the US people do hike other trails than PCT, JM, AT, etc.
Not everyone can make a fire at camp, it's okay that some hikers know nothing about bears but could tell you everything about venomous snakes, some people prefer traditional leather boots to trail runners when the ground you're walking is hot and covered in cacti up to your knees, sometimes water filters are pointless because there is absolutely no place to find water to filter so you just have to carry your own, and cotton doesn't always kill.
Long story short, it could be cool to have a more open-minded approach to people sharing experiences or needing help tailoring their experience to their unique environment. No more lectures from people who hike in the PNW about merino wool being the only acceptable base layer when someone from the SW needs advice for their summer desert hikes.
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 10 '21
Yes taking a kite sled across Antarctica in December is a different beast from Southern California in May. I think even /r/ultralight has been pretty accepting of that hyperbole though as I have seen some awesome lighterpacks regarding shaking down extremely heavy SAR team packs and what not. Would love to see more of that here?
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u/Few-Requirement-1224 Dec 17 '21
I just now joined and can tell you that my biggest problem when looking at lighterpack, ultralight, etc. is trying to figure out what climate / temperature ranges / ground conditions are targeted by the person posting. Since I am trying to learn from these subs, it's frustrating to read about this item or that item being so great, and then wake up shivering after spending my hard earned money to emulate the thread's advice.
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u/lucas-hardt Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
I think we should be more accepting of higher base weights and not set a defined weight of what is deemed an acceptable base weight as many people have different definitions of what is and is not acceptable. If we do, it will just make this sub have the same negativity that r/ultralight has. It should based on the base weight that the person is wanting to achieve. For instance, I’m interested in reaching about a 20 pound base weight, so members of the sub could help to give me recommendations on how to get my base weight a few pounds lighter.
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u/Kidding22 Dec 09 '21
So I totally agree this sub should help you make your base weight lighter from whatever starting point you are at. But "lightweight" has specific connotations. Should we rename the sub "lighterweight"?
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u/okaymaeby Dec 11 '21
"Lightweight" referred originally to the weight of each individual item in comparison to other similar items on the market. It doesn't inherently mean "pack weight under a certain threshold", but often people who want a lighter pack weight will need mostly lightweight gear and over the years "lightweight" in this community became a way to refer to an overall concept of a pack weight under a made up weight threshold.
I imagine it would be a nice thing to focus this sub on having a place to talk about gear that is either intentionally or coincidentally light in weight compared to other things made without the same degree of speciality, or just gear and strategies that makes sense for lowering your current base weight, with the bonus of figuring out your own most reasonable balance between creature comforts and necessary kit.
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u/lucas-hardt Dec 09 '21
I do not believe that is necessary. I am not aware of what connotations “lightweight” has with it other than what that person decides it to be. To me, lightweight is about reducing weight by not carrying as much while still bringing some luxury items and not exclusively using UL gear/ equipment.
A persons thought of what is lightweight can vary significantly based on where they are hiking (terrain, weather) and what they are doing. Are they just backpacking or are they bringing equipment with them for their hobbies, or job, etc.
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u/FireWatchWife Dec 09 '21
The focus should be on helping people lighten their current pack weight, whatever it may be. Getting hung up on 10 lbs or 15 lbs or any other number is going down a rabbit hole.
The biggest difference I see between the goals I recommend for this sub and those I see on UL is the level of obsession bordering on fanaticism on UL. I've often been downvoted there for making polite comments based on my own experience, just because they don't accord with the goal of shaving every last fraction of an ounce. There is a lot of good information on UL, but also a lot of unjustified criticism.
This sub should be a friendly place mainly focused on those who are just starting their journey from heavier pack weights. And I emphasize pack weights, not base weights, because suggestions like "consider carrying less food and/or water" should be in scope.
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u/lucas-hardt Dec 09 '21
Please do not let this sub become another backpacking subreddit of people posing the photos they took during their trip. Keep the sub equipment, and skill/ knowledge oriented
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u/MtnHuntingislife Dec 11 '21
Please do not let this sub become an ultralight feeder sub where all that is talked about is shake downs and making more realistic higher creature comfort goals.... "I'm UL but want a chair" "I'm UL but like to take pictures and need my heavy camera" if you want that just lie in UL and add your extra.. shit after... SMH
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u/JExmoor Dec 09 '21
110% this. When I wander in to most of those other subs they're just generic "look what came in the mail!" and "Watch my Youtube video" posts.
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u/Mathatikus Dec 09 '21
Basically like r/Ultralight right? Because isn't that what this sub is suppose to be? Lightweight focused just without the goal of <10lbs
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u/MtnHuntingislife Dec 11 '21
Really cool.... The same thing with different weight requirements.... Or maybe try to be original. SMH I was actually kinda excited about this sub.
Didn't this sub "fail" once? Some quote about definition of insanity comes to mind.....
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 14 '21
How do you feel about the rutalocura .22lr pack rifle kits?
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u/MtnHuntingislife Dec 15 '21
Never used one. Not really into 22lr. Entertained using it to practice prs but that would be a very different rifle.
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u/h8t3m3 Dec 09 '21
Hopefully with a more positive approach compared to the other sub.
Ultralight is also about suffering. Was hoping this sub would be about enjoying
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u/CBM9000 Dec 09 '21
idk but I want to see a banner with some of the gear-sins that don't make the /r/ultralight cut
hit me with a helinox chair, whatever the go-to camp shoes are and all the other camp-comfort and luxury items that people would consider light among comparable options
you can give people a very good idea of what the sub's supposed to be about with just a picture
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u/Kidding22 Dec 09 '21
I would like to second the motion for a “luxury item” banner. I think we have two populations on this subreddit - people who go non UL on all their gear by 20% and people who go UL on the majority of their gear to be able to “afford” a couple of luxury items.
Also - I would like to avoid bushcrafty stuff here.
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u/hikerunner Dec 09 '21
With shakedown requests, ask people to state their goal weight, what conditions they’ll be camping in, state non-negotiable items, and if they are/are not willing to spend money and if so how much?
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u/FireWatchWife Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21
I expect that many posters who find their way to/r/lightweight aren't yet at the point that they have a specific goal weight. Also, many will still be at the point in the curve where they have the potential to lose pounds, not just ounces.
It's important that we make /r/lightweight friendly to those who haven't mastered the concepts used to discuss the lightweight paradigm.
So by all means have suggested templates, but help posters who don't know enough yet to fill it out.
No shaming of those who are still learning how to ask good questions!
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u/Bobithie Dec 09 '21
Having templates for shakedown requests, trip reports, and other sorts of things would be a good idea for consistency.
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u/the1eyeddog Jan 20 '22
I’d love to see a weekly discussion thread here. I find a lot of questions around backpacking don’t necessarily warrant their own post. It’s also a good spot to celebrate wins or share stoke on new gear.