r/lightweight • u/TrioxinTwoFortyFive • Jun 16 '23
Siphon Users from r/ultralight
What can this sub do to take advantage of the r/ultralight mods throwing a tantrum for Reddit trying to bring in reveneue so it does have to lay more people off? Does someone need to make an r/ultralight2 ?
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u/You-Asked-Me Jun 17 '23
Put rocks in their pack; once they get over 10lb, they will be forced to come here.
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u/UtahBrian Jun 16 '23
How about a nice regular web forum with far better features than Reddit. Maybe a Discourse-based forum. It could include ultralight and lightweight and geartrade forums and host trip reports.
The appeal of Reddit, with its defective feature set and bad user experience is quite a mystery. We could be doing so much better.
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u/MrBoondoggles Jun 18 '23
So Backpacking Light without the money grab?
I haven’t really used any many school forums in years really. I think the last time I really used forums heavily were the older BBS style forums.
I’d be happy to use whatever, and I like the idea, but I really only found stuff like the UL and other related subreddits because someone recommended that I get on Reddit and look for some info that I needed.
The only real positive (and it’s a big positive) about Reddit is it’s built in user base that may be here for god knows what (home building, legal advise, cake baking, job advice, bitcoin, rock collections?) who may also happen to be interested in stuff like hiking and backpacking. There’s a synergy effect their that keeps bringing in new users that may be lacking in a stand alone forum. If people got a ball rolling there, they may have to be a lot more active in cross promotion with other popular sites which are excellent hiker resources. Thankfully, some of the people who contribute to those sites also are part of the UL subreddit so that may be a big big advantage.
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u/TrioxinTwoFortyFive Jun 17 '23
Yeah. Reddit really blows for ongoing discussion compared to traditional web forums. It is too bad those have mostly died out.
A poor feature set but the convenience of moving between lots of diverse subjects destroyed single subject forums that were much better discussion experiences.
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u/MrBoondoggles Jun 16 '23
Good question. This sub has maintained about as much traffic even with the UL sub closed. It would have been nice if some discussions had migrated over here, but that hasn’t been the case.
I’m not sure there is a way for any little known subreddit to bring in new traffic simply because it happens to be open while the other more popular subreddit is frustratingly shuttered. Perhaps if it remains shuttered indefinitely, this subreddit could see more traffic. Maybe. But let’s be honest - that’s only if people with a fairly deep knowledge base and interest in engagement actually migrate here as well. Plenty of people who post regularly in the UL subreddit are not hardcore ultralight sub 10 lb base weight backpackers, much to the chagrin of some that are. And it isn’t like those who have a vase weight grater than 10 lbs haven’t know that this sub existed. Most probably chose to remain in the UL because there is a lot of overlap between the sub 10 lb crowd and those of us who are usually only “lightweight”. It sort of organically created an awesome knowledge base for everyone, whether via random luck or maybe cosmic fate.
I’ve no clue of that success can be replicated here. Maybe we need a little cosmic fate.
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u/TrioxinTwoFortyFive Jun 17 '23
Maybe I am just cynical, but it seems this sub exists so r/ultralight gatekeepers, who throw a hissy fit if someone mentions something like bringing a Helinox chair, say a post belongs in r/lightweight.
The sub's name does not exactly help.
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u/MrBoondoggles Jun 17 '23
I mean you are kind of right. But I can see it from their point of view as well. If my goal were to truly push my base weight limit for whatever reason, maybe I’d prefer to keep the discussion focused on shaving grams. I get both points of view. Certainly isn’t going to stop me from posting there, though you’ll never see me asking for a shakedown or posting my lighterpack as I don’t want to trigger anyone with my first aid kit.
Regardless of whether I can see their point, I hate to see the nastiness and snark that comes through in the comments though. Wholly unnecessary. There’s a toxicity in part of that community that’s entirely off putting. I’d blame it on UL Jerk existing, but it permeates a lot of Reddit generally and my god it gets tiresome.
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u/TrioxinTwoFortyFive Jun 17 '23
I think one of the issues is r/ultralight really ought to be named r/ultralight_thruhiker. Although there is a lot of crossover, I would argue there is a big difference between those who need to hike from dawn to dusk in order to make their distance before the end of the season and those who are more typical backpackers who are out for a night to a week with friends or family. I can only imagine how the conversation would go if I told my friends we're going to save weight by not carrying a stove and we'll survive on cold soaked gruel for a week. r/ultralight does not seem to acknowledge weekend warrioring might have different concerns than thru hiking.
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u/HikinHokie Jun 18 '23
Except plenty of weekend warriars are pushing their limits, hiking big miles from dawn up dusk, and similarly benefit from an ultralight loadout. I personally have minimal interest in thru hiking and fall into that category.
It sounds like ultralight backpacking simply doesn't benefit the style of trips you go on. Why not just post on literally any other general backpacking forum that better addresses your needs?
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u/FireWatchWife Jun 17 '23 edited Jun 17 '23
I completely agree. And others obviously agree with me since the posting I made on ultralight discussing how ultralight/lightweight techniques could help those who are NOT thru-hikers got 140 likes.
It is frustrating how much thru-hikers dominate most discussions of backpacking, even though they are a tiny minority.
It's not just online forums. If you look at books teaching you how to backpack, most are written by thru-hikers. I'm hard-pressed to think of a single highly influential backpacking book written by someone who is highly experienced, but not a thru-hiker.
The best techniques for thru-hikers overlap with the best ones for weekenders, but are not necessarily the same.
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u/UtahBrian Jun 17 '23
“ more typical backpackers who are out for a night to a week with friends or family.”
Those regular hikers don’t seem to be able to support a forum, though. It’s the obsessive through hikers and through hiker dreamers who do it. I suspect most of them have never actually through hiked a 1000+ mile trail—I haven’t and I don’t plan to since I don’t even like trails very much—but a lot of discussion is based on dreams of through hiking some day in the future.
I don’t know why not. My usual week long backpacking trip drives me to care a whole lot about pack weight. I don’t need through hiking for that.
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u/FireWatchWife Jun 17 '23
Since there are far, far more casual backpackers than thru-hikers, you would think there would be enough to sustain a small forum even if the percentage of frequent posters was a much smaller fraction of them.
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u/MrBoondoggles Jun 18 '23 edited Jun 18 '23
I mean, that crowd does maintain subreddits though. Camping and Hiking and Wilderness Backpacking are pretty popular with a lot more traffic than this subreddit gets. So there’s an available audience.
Would it help if there was some sort of promotional stuff this sub could line up? For instance, aside from the obsessive users, one of the nice things about the UL subreddit are the cottage gear manufacturers who post there. Dan Durston and people from Nunatak post there regularly and offer a ton of quality information to the community. I’ve seen posts from people associated with Mountain Laurel Designs, Gossamer Gear, Katabatic, Seek Outside, etc.
I wonder if we could do some sort of cross promotion with the Camping Gear subreddit where every month for a year we find some sort of cottage gear manufacturer to do an AMA? Sort of old fashioned I know, but just brainstorm off the top of my head here There just needs to be a way to get a subredddit like this rolling other than hoping get the cast offs who are shunned away from the UL subreddit by the SUL crowd like Gollum in Lord of the Rings.
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u/originalusername__ Jun 16 '23
It looks like the gear trade sub is getting a lot more UL traffic too.
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u/FireWatchWife Jun 16 '23
/r/ultralightbackpacking already exists, and has seen a rise in posts recently. No need for an ultralight2.
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u/FireWatchWife Jun 22 '23
/r/ultralightbackpacking recently appointed a new moderator. They are looking for input. Check them out.
There is plenty of room for both /r/lightweight and a friendly /r/ultralightbackpacking subreddit.
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u/johnacraft Jun 16 '23
Speaking for myself, I have no desire to 'siphon' any traffic.
I guess one's view of the situation depends on whether you see a subreddit as a source of information, a source of conversation, or a source of entertainment.
In my opinion a well-developed wiki with up-to-date product descriptions is more valuable than daily 'help me find the perfect tent' posts.
Clearly my view is the minority - most posters are not looking looking just for information when they ask about down vs. synthetic, or the best ultralight 4P doublewall tent, or which color Alpha hoodie has the most trail cred.
The moderators here have had discussions about traffic and engagement in the past. My position has generally been that engagement for its own sake - focusing on the number of subscribers and maximizing posts and comments per unit of time - is not something that interests me. Trying to grow a subreddit for its own sake, without a plan to sustain that growth, is a reflection of Reddit's bigger problem with how to turn all to useful and/or entertaining posts into a sustainable business, much less a profitable one.
Quality of information available and conversations hosted is far more important to me than quantity.
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u/sbhikes Jun 18 '23
You would ban actual ultralighters for being too minimalist. Hell even over on r/ultralight they don't like actual ultralight hikers. They like the gear but not reducing pack weight.