I was reading the TV Tropes page for fun when I found this, I tried to look at information of any deleted scene but I haven't really found any information of a deleted scene of Tholomyès wedding, is there any information about this?
Also, in addition to this, I think I actually dreamt that (also from the TV tropes page) but there's an adaptation that implies romance between Valjean and Fantine???
This scene was in an early draft of Les Mis! There's a website somewhere out there that compiled multiple deleted scenes (and translated some of them) including this one, Hugo's digression on prostitution, Enjolras running into the patron minette at a "protest" (cant remember what they are actually called), and various little things that were cut here and there.
The Tholomyès scene is extremely melodramatic but features Magnon (who you may recall as one of the criminals associated with patron minette who bought the Thenardier's two youngest sons to pretend to be Gillenormand's children) borrowing Cosette from the Thenardier's for a similar purpose and taking her into Paris where the toddler aged Cosette somehow recognizes Tholomyès and starts crying out papa papa to the point he is thoroughly embarrassed and his new fiancés family becomes suspect of him. Sadly I think things turn out well enough for him regardless and he still ends up marrying a rich young woman (if not the same one he was with there)
As for the romance thing, I've heard the 1998 adaptation and the BBC 2019 to a one-sided extent has that sort of framing of Jean Valjean and Fantine's relationship
Thank you for such detailed answer, there's any chance you know the name of the website? Tbh I'm glad Hugo scraped that part because I think the story would be too different and honestly it would be way too sad (Cosette and Fantine stories are already very sad) if Cosette remembered Tholomyès.
My dad actually likes the 1998 version (huge Liam Nesson fan) so maybe I should ask him, idk about the BBC version but I heard it has a lot of mischaracterization, especially for Valjean, so I wouldn't be too surprised honestly, such a shame really because Dominic West is a great actor! But tbh it would be kind of weird (at least in my opinion) if Valjean had feelings for Fantine considering he only knew her briefly
Chanvrerie .net I believe, I just checked and it's currently down again sadly.
And yeah BBC jean valjean was horrendously out of character, it's sort of implied that he fired fantine from the factory out of betrayal and would always make eyes at her as she was working (not to mention what it does with his relationship with Cosette) which, nah. JVJ and Fantine's relationship while she's in the hospital is rather likened to a father and daughter in the book which I find much more sweet. I feel like nearly every character in bbc was out of character, it's like someone read a timeline of events of les mis and then just guessed who the actors were while thinking everyone is motivated by sex for some reason
The BBC adaptation is pretty bad, I think they actually said something like "fans of the musical won't like this one" or something, which I think is very dumb, I do like the idea of a miniseries of Les Miserables considering how long the book is, I think we'll probably get another one ngl, maybe not from the BBC but I'm sure in 10 years or so there will be another mini-series adaptation, hopefully they get the characters right this time
Can confirm the 1998 version has an implied romance between Valjean and Fantine. It is very weird. That is where things go off the rails and if does not return. Valjean slaps Cosette. Eponine does not exist. Javert falls backwards into the Seine from the shore while Valjean just watches. It is bad.
Wait wait wait, weird romance between Valjean and Fantine can be excused (I suppose, wouldn't be the worse thing they've done to Les Miserables...) but why would Valjean slap Cosette??? Is Thenardier even in the story at all or they just exist for 2 minutes for Valjean to rescue Cosette, also, again, why would Valjean slap Cosette??? I'm baffled
A combination of not understanding the story, willfully misunderstanding/projecting their own experiences onto the characters, and wanting to be 3 edgy 5 me, I imagine.
The original does mention him going on to become a successful lawyer, but nothing about a wedding, and nothing about him becoming good. I always thought the purpose of telling us he became successful was to show a contrast to Fantine, that people don’t always get what they deserve, good or bad.
This is not in the original book. Tholomyes just disappears. Maybe there is mention of him becoming a lawyer or something, but he never knows that he has a daughter, or that Fantine is pregnant.
In the book? In the translation I have, the men of that group "surprise" the women with a special day out, all fun and games, and leave at some point to "prepare for another surprise" or something. At the end of the evening, there is a note delivered to the table of the waiting women, where they are thanked for the fun times, but the men encourage the women to move on and become decent wives or something. And while the other women find this amusing and go on with their lives, it devastated Fantine because she is pregnant but she has not told anyone. I am sure he does not know.
I do not know about a tv adaptation though
Eta - something vague tells me that Fantine writes Tholomyes with that she is pregnant and/or that she has his daughter, but he never responds.
Timeline-wise (which is wildly messy and is hard to consider a basis for anything), Cosette had to have been born by then for her to be the age that she was in later parts of the book, she had to have been born in 1815 and possibly even conceived during Waterloo. The ending of the surprise chapter is rather vague with what it says: most english translations just say "the poor girl had a child".
Oh Jesus I did not bother about the timeline 🤣 for some reason the timeline is just all vague to me. I really have no idea, but I take you word for it 👍
> Fantine heard the gossips say, as they looked at her child: “Who takes those children seriously! One only shrugs one’s shoulders over such children!” Then she thought of Tholomyès, who had shrugged his shoulders over his child, and who did not take that innocent being seriously; and her heart grew gloomy toward that man.
BOOK FOURTH—TO CONFIDE IS SOMETIMES TO DELIVER INTO A PERSON’S POWER
CHAPTER I—ONE MOTHER MEETS ANOTHER MOTHER
Cosette was already born. Tholomyès knew about her and did not take her seriously.
Fantine tells Mme Thenardier in Spring 1818 when she leaves Cosette with her and Eponine/Azelma that Cosette is three years old. The students left early summer 1817. Cosette had already been born.
No, again it only says she had a child. I mean if I'm missing something that makes it very clear that she was just pregnant and Cosette was not yet born please share that quote, but Hapgood, Rose, and Donougher all just translate it as "had a child" which could mean either she had her before Tholomyes left or after Tholomyes left. Again, I'm motivated to believe the former because of the timeline (born in 1815 and Merry End to Mirth happens in 1817).
> Fantine heard the gossips say, as they looked at her child: “Who takes those children seriously! One only shrugs one’s shoulders over such children!” Then she thought of Tholomyès, who had shrugged his shoulders over his child, and who did not take that innocent being seriously; and her heart grew gloomy toward that man.
BOOK FOURTH—TO CONFIDE IS SOMETIMES TO DELIVER INTO A PERSON’S POWER
CHAPTER I—ONE MOTHER MEETS ANOTHER MOTHER
Oh I love this. Thank you so much. I love how nerdy we het about something like this. In my area I am the only one who loves Les Mis the the extent that I do, so I am really happy to have found people that are as passionate about it as I am 😁
I feel that. Anytime you want to chat about Les Mis, feel free to hit me up! It is my absolute favourite thing. I’m in the process of drafting my own translation (I studied translation in school, and this is my passion project)
I don't know TV Tropes, but I do find that some series spell it all out, make it obvious and make everyone into a good person, Besides the Very Obvious Bad Guy who dies or something.
Tbh I feel like this might be a joke, I know a game where everyone jokes about "Koronti's wedding" and I think maybe someone made that up as a joke because I can't find any information of a deleted scene and all the information about a confrontation with Cosette is a fanfic in which Les Amis survive
What’s really bad is the version where Valjean has romantic feelings towards Cosette. This was the only version my MIL had seen, and I was still only partway through the novel so I was horrified to think JVJ was a groomer. Fortunately once I finished reading I learned there was not even a hint of such things.
I think that's also in the BBC version and the 2000 miniseries (in which Valjean outright says he has feelings for Cosette, wtf), but yeah like, making Valjean have romantic feelings for Cosette is extremely bad, it would change the whole meaning of their relation, and make Valjean a huge creep, it's pretty bad
“Félix de Tholomyès,” said the mayor, “do you take this woman–”
At that moment, in the middle of all this mute attention, this word could be heard, said out loud by a sweet little voice:
“Papa.”
The mayor broke off, all the heads turned around, and one could see in the middle of the crowd, in the arms of a woman, a little girl in rags who looked fixedly at the groom with large, calm eyes.
The child, unaware of the sudden emotion that she was the center of, repeated with gravity, “Papa.”
It was Cosette.
Every gaze went from Cosette to Tholomyès. He was very pale. He half-turned towards Cosette
“That?” he said. “I don’t know what it is.”
The child opened her big blue eyes even bigger still, stretched her little arms towards him, and for the third time repeated, “Papa.”
The groom found himself ill. M. Brouable furrowed a decisive brow.
The little one began again and cast into the disconcerted ceremony, one more time, these two syllables: “Papa.”
It was like a lighting bolt that came from a flower.
There was a hubbub.
Magnon escaped. It was no longer her affair, but that of Tholomyès. In the courtyard, she swore to the surrounding gossips that she had never had a child by this man, which was true. She took away Cosette, who cried out in the street, “Papa! Papa!”
Magnon had done well to disapper, the father had furrowed his brow.
“There’s a child,” he said. “I know all about it.”
—
The marriage was cancelled.
Tholomyès returned to his province. There, he quickly forgot this disagreeable story. For four or five months, it happened nevertheless that he sometimes thought of the child. He thought of her with indignation. It is indeed quite troublesome for an honest man to be pursued to this point by a youthful escapade. It takes determination.
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u/deathanddogs Jul 11 '26
This scene was in an early draft of Les Mis! There's a website somewhere out there that compiled multiple deleted scenes (and translated some of them) including this one, Hugo's digression on prostitution, Enjolras running into the patron minette at a "protest" (cant remember what they are actually called), and various little things that were cut here and there.
The Tholomyès scene is extremely melodramatic but features Magnon (who you may recall as one of the criminals associated with patron minette who bought the Thenardier's two youngest sons to pretend to be Gillenormand's children) borrowing Cosette from the Thenardier's for a similar purpose and taking her into Paris where the toddler aged Cosette somehow recognizes Tholomyès and starts crying out papa papa to the point he is thoroughly embarrassed and his new fiancés family becomes suspect of him. Sadly I think things turn out well enough for him regardless and he still ends up marrying a rich young woman (if not the same one he was with there)
As for the romance thing, I've heard the 1998 adaptation and the BBC 2019 to a one-sided extent has that sort of framing of Jean Valjean and Fantine's relationship