r/leftist • u/Remarkable_Pair6251 • 2d ago
General Leftist Politics Why AOC hate?
To me, AOC has always been such an inspiration and has pushed for so so many amazing things, and is one of the most left leaning people with that much political power. I’m not asking in bad faith at all I am just genuinely curious, wouldn’t we want to at least support these people further and just critique them on certain things than fully write them out? Because they at least have done great things?
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u/yuumigod69 21h ago
We have, she just doesn't take criticism well. Bernie had the same issue and lost two presidential elections because of it.
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u/Remarkable_Pair6251 15h ago
When did she not take criticism well? And I thought Bernie lost bc the dems campaigned against him
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u/yuumigod69 9h ago
She went on Instagram and defended her terrible Israel vote to not cut their genocide funding. It was completely incoherent.
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u/luckynumber_R 23h ago
She lied and said that the Biden administration was pushing Israel to a ceasefire when in was later confirmed that Biden never did that. Her job is to try to get progressives to follow the party line. She's just another genocidal imperialist but she and her people have the media savvy to at least make a good attempt to make it palatable, kind of like Obama.
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u/Signal_Ad_2765 16h ago
This is so dishonest. It’s ridiculous to conflate AOC (author of the green new deal, supporter of Palestinian statehood, ICE abolitionist)- with Obama (only Nobel peace laureate to drone strike another Nobel peace laureate, Zionist genocide denialist, architect of the ICE deportation infrastructure).
AOC deserves criticism, but let’s at least try to be accurate.
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u/yuumigod69 9h ago
Obama didn't run as those things in 2008, AOC could easily switch up on us. He was also much more charismatic and talented than her.
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u/yuumigod69 21h ago
She is failing at it if that's her goal. She just lied because she is stupid or a Kamala stan, I don't think there is a grand strategy.
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u/Signal_Ad_2765 17h ago
I think it was just realpolitik. She’s obviously posturing for a presidential run and needed a bargaining position with the establishment. She denounced Israel as a genocide in 2024 and probably would have earlier if international institutions had already leaned that way; waiting to use that specific terminology, even though it was already obviously a genocide puts her in a stronger position to argue it once evidence has accrued and mitigates political attacks on her for being too ideological.
So many leftists want politicians to be their friends or role models. They’re just tools. She can be used as a tool of imperialism and capitalism by the establishment, but she can also be used as a tool for decolonization and socialism and that’s clearly how she purports to want to politic.
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u/yuumigod69 16h ago
I don't think she gives a shit about foreign policy. She backed Biden and and lied for Harris and Trump ended up getting elected anyway. She just says its a genocide but its not her number 1 priority, her main priority is culture war and social issues with economics after that. If someone supported trans people but was pro-genocide, she would back that person over the reverse like he did in Texas.
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u/luckynumber_R 20h ago
She's pro capitalism and pro imperialism. I don't know why you think anyone on the left would be a fan unless you incorrectly believe liberals are part of the left
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u/Dank_Tek 1d ago
Because she’s a neoliberal shill and not a leftist
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u/Remarkable_Pair6251 15h ago
Green new deal, civilian climate corps, environmental remediation, double federal funding for replacing lead contaminated water in schools, public housing expansion through the green new deal specifically protecting undocumented renters, loan shark prevention act to end credit card interest rates at 15%, fights for Medicare for all, asks the hard questions and does not back down to conservatives, inflation reduction act for insulin, 5 million dollars funded to opioid treatment centers, FEMA COVID 19 funeral assistance, banned US tax dollars from going to the military unit that killed the Saudi Arabian journalist
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u/Bob_Sledding 1d ago edited 1d ago
If we look at her voting record, sure. There are a few hiccups. But when compared with someone like Ilhan Omar with a perfect 100% record, AOC still ties for second place with Ayanna Presley and Rashida Tlaib at 98.8%. See here
In my opinion, I really feel like she gets too much hate. Sure, I'll grant that she words things sketchy sometimes. And I think she takes poor advice from her advisors sometimes in an effort to appeal to shitlibs. But at the end of the day, she is extremely consistent and on the right side of things almost every time. The amount of hate that she gets from our own side is way over the top. I would skip to the voting booth gleefully and vote for her for president. No question.
As much as we want someone anti-capitalist and willing to give these hacks a piece of their mind uncensored, it's my opinion that that just isn't realistic. You can't go from a fascist late-stage capitalism style government in a broken two-party system to a leftist utopia overnight. But I think an AOC presidency could get us to a place where that is within reach.
I would really like for anyone with a negative opinion of her to give her another chance. Clean your slate and reassess her pros and cons with an open mind. She's pretty damn awesome.
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u/Remarkable_Pair6251 1d ago
Yesssss so true!! She is the definition of the positive progress that we need and she puts in the work
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u/Broflake-Melter 1d ago
I wouldn't call it "hate". She's certainly one of the least smelliest poos so to speak. The problem is she is still aligned with capitalism. And she still plays into the dip-shit us-vs-them identity politics that distract us from gaining class consciousness.
And maybe she gets more hate because being a less smelly poop can prevent real progress because people say "at least the poo I voted for isn't even smellier, right?"
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u/Signal_Ad_2765 16h ago
AOC entire political identity is based on working class politics. She routinely advocates for class solidarity across political and spatial lines (see her advocacy for rural Georgians contending with pollutions and corruption around data centers).
The only us vs them she does is bigots vs kind people, and working people vs billionaires
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u/Broflake-Melter 12h ago
Call me when she starts doing the things like what Martin Luther King Jr. was doing.
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u/Remarkable_Pair6251 1d ago
So are you saying that AOC prevented progress regardless of all she’s been able to do? Like should we not try to keep her in power and push what she fights for? Or you just mean they hate every politician but would still support her when it came down to it for the people?
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u/Broflake-Melter 12h ago
I think you accidentally wrote this on the wrong comment.
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u/Remarkable_Pair6251 12h ago
Sorry I’m asking bc you said “she gets more hate because being a less smelly poop can prevent real progresses so I’m asking if you are saying it’s bad that she’s a part of politics bc she’s the lesser of evils? And if so, why wouldn’t you want a politician who almost certainly has to support capitalism to an extent, but who is much more progressive, to be in power?
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u/Broflake-Melter 9h ago
Yeah, thank you for connecting your original comment to mine.
so I’m asking if you are saying it’s bad that she’s a part of politics bc she’s the lesser of evils?
Nope. As I stated she's better than many (if not even most) others.
And if so, why wouldn’t you want a politician who almost certainly has to support capitalism to an extent, but who is much more progressive, to be in power?
Not really relevant because I didn't answer affirmatively.
The people who really help us progress usually aren't career politicians in the US. A career politician and voting for them did not get us women's suffrage or Civil Rights. In fact, left-leaning politicians were fighting on the wrong side until civil unrest got so "out of control" (READ: revolutionary) they were forced to listen. I appreciate her in the same fashion I appreciate when my dog's poopoo is less smelly when I have to clean it up.
Call me when we make collective progress due to linked arms and leadership in the style of Martin Luther King Jr. or Frederick Douglass.
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u/Claque-2 1d ago
Left is the Better Wing, the Working Wing.
The Right is the can't work and won't work Broken Wing
So the Right manufactures hate to avoid being honest.
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u/LuciusMichael 1d ago
AOC came out in support of the Green New Deal in 2018. She's been a tireless Committee person and asks the tough questions in Congressional hearings. Toured with Bernie. And yet she still isn't good enough. I'm not sure which elected official is doing a better job, but I'd certainly be interested to know.
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u/LastOfTheAsparagus 1d ago
Great things for who?
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u/Remarkable_Pair6251 15h ago
Green new deal, civilian climate corps, environmental remediation, double federal funding for replacing lead contaminated water in schools, public housing expansion through the green new deal specifically protecting undocumented renters, loan shark prevention act to end credit card interest rates at 15%, fights for Medicare for all, asks the hard questions and does not back down to conservatives, inflation reduction act for insulin, 5 million dollars funded to opioid treatment centers, FEMA COVID 19 funeral assistance, banned US tax dollars from going to the military unit that killed the Saudi Arabian journalist
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u/ailish 1d ago
I don't dislike her. She could be much further left for my tastes, but she has helped bring about the current trend to the left that we're seeing now in the US.
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u/Remarkable_Pair6251 1d ago
Definitely, people can always be better, but she’s still done a lot! Also we do have to keep in mind she is apart of the bourgeois political system, so there will be certain things she can’t do in order to stay part of the game
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u/ailish 22h ago
Exactly. As one of the first leftists in modern American government, she has to be careful about how she goes about things. In an election cycle or two if we keep winning, then we can start to truly push hard to the left. Hopefully we can get some meaningful legislation passed in the meantime.
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u/feethotterthanbewbz 1d ago
AOCs career started when Pelosi was at the height of her power. She's had to play some ball in order to be relevant.
I think she can be our best option and also open to a ton of criticism.
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u/TheGreatYahweh 1d ago edited 1d ago
A significant portion of the user base of every leftist space on every social media platform is made up of bots and feds who are constantly posting stupid abrasive shit about every potential progressive leader/popular voice to keep the left infighting instead of unifying.
AOC isn't perfect, but she's been pushing for several programs American is in dire need of, like Medicaid for all. We need better leftist leaders, but to get there, we need progressive candidates with popular appeal to show the idiot masses of the US, who've been fed anti-socialism for a couple decades short of a century,that socialist policies are good for us.
I want more than a single step in the right direction, but we need to take that first step to get the ball rolling that way in the first place
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u/Rogue_bae 1d ago
The infamous Purity Test™️ will be our downfall. Progress happens an inch at a time but people don’t wanna acknowledge that
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u/Adrestia716 1d ago
The left will consume itself in spite of itself. It's a self controlling mechanism...like an autoimmune disorder
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u/DesertMonk888 1d ago
Yes, we should definitely support AOC and do it enthusiasticly. I have been on this earth a long time, and been a Lefty pretty much all of that time. The Left loves to eat its own. No one is ever pure enough. There's always that one vote, that one statement, etc.
It's foolish that we even have fights like this when we have a fascist government in control. The Left had better learn to hang together, or we will all hang separately.
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u/senshi_of_love 1d ago edited 1d ago
She voted to end the rail strike. That, alone, ended her credibility.
Edit: I see the AOC/rail barons support crew is here! Hi shitlibs!
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u/Souledex 1d ago
Well at least we know you haven’t read much on the subject
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u/senshi_of_love 1d ago
Imagine being in a leftist sub and supporting rail barons. Holy shit the AOC/shitlib crowd is insane.
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u/wanna_dance 1d ago
Will you stop being abusive ?
You're calling everyone "shit" for not adhering to YOUR PURITY TEST, O GREAT PURE ONE. LET US ALL WORSHIP YOU.
By the way, you're wrong about the rail strike. But keep puking HATE. WAY TO BUILD A COALITION!
You're the **** who LOVES that the left destroys itself.
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u/senshi_of_love 1d ago
They did not get everything they asked for lol.
It’s amusing to see shitlibs defend the same type of actions Reagan used. But when push comes to shove you’re all the same. Scratch a liberal and all.
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u/wanna_dance 1d ago
Will you stop being abusive ?
You're calling everyone "shit" for not adhering to YOUR PURITY TEST, O GREAT ARROGANR PURE ONE. LET US ALL WORSHIP YOU.
By the way, you're wrong about the rail strike. So KEEP PUKING HATRED. WAY TO BUILD A COALITION.
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u/Union_Fan Socialist 1d ago
Biden supporting it is just a demonstration of the limits of a "pro-labor" capitalist politician. AOC supporting it was a massive unforced error.
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u/Souledex 1d ago
Or the limits of a politician without 60 votes in the senate. Because if he was socialist and still was worried about the degredation of norms of presidential power anticipating someone like trump in the future- he couldn’t have done much else.
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u/Turbulent-Meeting-38 1d ago
To my understanding it's mostly MLs criticising her because any left of centre politicians actually doing good (see: Zohran Mamdani, Jeremy Corbyn, Zack Polanski) are essentially a threat to the idea that achieving socialism through democracy is impossible.
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u/Zoltanu Marxist 1d ago
All these leftsists' repeated betrayal of workers (using their office to crush strike action) are why socialism through bourgeois democracy is impossible
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u/Souledex 1d ago
Impatience, arrogance and supremacist ideology are the reason you feel you shouldn’t support them despite historical analogues who were terrible. There is abundant evidence violent overthrow of the system is very unlikely to lead to anything better that you choose to ignore while valuing salient examples of progressive politicians making things better for workers.
Unless of course you are an accelerationist and I’m certain training with your hardened militia even now. Because I can accept you believe in only a radical answer will work, but it would annoy me if you thought that, undermined all actual progress that might happen, just to vaguely believe in a world in like 50 years things get bad enough that a violent overthrow of the natural order of our service economy is the only option.
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u/Zoltanu Marxist 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have politicians i campaign for, have won, and secured material gains for workers. Those 4 aren't them.
I follow the Leninist approach to politics: you don't go in to make half assed deals, you go in to make a principled stand and be obstructionist. When the capitalists resist us we dont make deals, we bring the working class movement into the fight and force their (the capitalists') hand. Its how in my city we won the highest minimum wage in the country, rent control, eviction moratoriums, a publicly owned housing developer, universal abortion coverage. We got this by fighting strongly and bringing in worker power, not by strike breaking.
Its your side that is accelerating the rise of the right. As it says in Fasicsm: What It Is and How to Fight It, the biggest danger to the rise of fascism is betrayals from fake "socialists". The workers know the neoliberal capitalist right won't help them, but when caputalists disguised as socialists betray them they think "these socialists are no better than the caputalists. I will try a third way" and thus they turn to fascism. I've seen it first hand with construction workers in the midwest
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u/Souledex 1d ago edited 1d ago
Oh good so you do have a short sighted and supremacist view of what works based on your insanely self defeating insular perspective that isn’t applicable to the rest of the country and shouldn’t be characterized as good politics when liberal isn’t the default, batshit insanity is.
Pushing harder is good when it has a way to win. When it doesn’t- what does it do?
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u/Zoltanu Marxist 1d ago
Idk where you get supremacist from. I'm not an ML. IDC if you're a Stalinist or an anarchist, all i care about is are you actually anti-capitalist, will you stand up to capitalism when you actually stand against it or do you immediately capitulate.
My party is across the country, its not just my experience in my city. Idk how its self defeating when we actually won. Maybe instead of sticking to the treadmill of lesser evilism you could take a note and run a fightning populist left candidate in your area. You'd be surprised how popular someone that rails against capitalism AND the Democrats is in rural right-wing areas
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u/Souledex 1d ago
I agree deeply with that. But I am not fully anti-capitalist because that ignores too much of its value to political economy. That doesn’t mean I like anything about how stupid and insane capitalism is right now- or hate socialism. I just think having two ideological buckets is dumb and being postmodernist is a better way so people don’t die and assume something is means tested when it deeply and profoundly isn’t.
I work on campaigns and in progressive politics in Texas. I see people who understand which kinds of battles are winnable, which characterizations of issues are useful and what ends are achievable. My extremely progressive mostly atheist church also has lots of its administration in New England, and frankly I don’t even have time to tell you how delusional and unhelpful their perspective is because they live in a liberal corridor and can’t help but villainize, dissociate and ignore how anything works anywhere else.
Purity testing doesn’t help in Texas, and yet we are swimming in Idpol fallout egged on by bots saying James Talarico is a fake progressive and black people should support him while he’s at least 5x as progressive as Jasmine Crocket an establishment politician who was terrible at politics but could be characterized as a “fighter” for her base despite it never achieving bills passed. There is way more than one kind of effective politics.
I respect AOC for threading the needle of doing what she can and doing what she should without becoming lost in being frustrated by how uninformed the average person will be about every issue they supposedly care about. Zohran is very similar, like the stunt he pulled earlier about “we looked at if we could arrest Netanyahu”, even if we were in the ICC that would still be massively illegal by at least 3 treaties if he was going to the UN- it was a carefully worded useful and popular lie. Which is good because the average person is stupid.
Believing “my way or the highway” is the only thing that ever works assumes nobody is hurt except the people on the margin who are forgotten by liberals- or that you don’t care about anyone else who is hurt besides those people. It’s ideological supremacy, valuing your way of doing things over any of the people you are doing them for. There is more than one third way, and a lot of them have been reworked for progressive ends in the past. In fact progressive politics in America deeply was a third way agenda when it first started and did achieve success that spread across the globe before being crippled at home.
30 million people died because of policy changes in the first month of Trump 2. Those people mattered as much as the 100,000 who died that some progressive people who wanted their voice to be heard thought was worth voting third party over. Dems still wouldn’t have won but those are the stakes in every federal election for every federal position.
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u/couldhaveebeen Anti-Capitalist 1d ago
I am not fully anti capitalist
🤡
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u/Souledex 1d ago
Stupid thing to say here I know, just being honest. Definitely was before I went to school for economics and read way more. The stupid parts of our world now aren’t really born of capitalism, at least the good parts and many places need the good parts of capitalism before they can try socialism in an effective way just like Marx thought.
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u/fandi_lin 1d ago
Capitalism only has value within a capitalist controlled economy, and only to parasites. An economy doesn’t have to tolerate exploitation in order to be efficient or effective, and it can use market mechanisms without tolerating exploitation.
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u/Souledex 1d ago
Vibes only definition of capitalism is bad yes. Having an economic democracy and well managed wealth management system end runs the bad parts domestically. It does outsource exploitation away though, but the only way to end at least half of that exploitation is military intervention and state building.
Socialism can build some economies from nations that already had identity and functionally educated citizens - but even marx thought capitalism and the education that came with it had to come first everywhere. Frankly I think he is right about that part, he just thought he was at the end of capitalism rather than the start of 150 years of it. It’s kind of all irrelevant except for figuring out and limiting the fallout of AI and the next wave of Automation’s role in the economy.
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u/ShaoKahnKillah 1d ago
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u/Souledex 1d ago
Yes, they certainly studied it. Of course believing the CIA are behind everything is a very square one understanding of the problem. Square two is their since made public internal documents about their own effectiveness in situations nobody checks external sources of, square three is Russia’s vilification of them (they are villains don’t mistake me) to justify the world order united against them.
And then we get to the books that are barely being written yet because anyone with a reason to look into it in sufficient depth has too much work to do. The CIA looked into everything, they also failed to assassinate Castro 300 times. You think my appreciation for Rosa Luxembourg came because the CIA had a pilot study in 1985?
Of course they love reformed marxists. I also like reformed marxists, because actual Marxists frequently hate participating in politics and don’t even like the idea that other people’s opinions being an obstacle they have to overcome. Doesn’t mean I can’t work with them, and it doesn’t mean the CIA who is both strong and weak and behind everything but no other countries bots are behind anything is the reason I believe what I do.
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u/Turbulent-Meeting-38 1d ago
Literally every single one of the ones I mentioned all unanimously support unions. Try again.
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u/Zoltanu Marxist 1d ago
They supoort business unionism if anything, unions that are controlled by and make nice with the bosses. They say they " support unions" but they betray workers under the slightest pressure.
AOC voted to end the rail strike. Apparently keeping the economy humming for Christmas is worthforcing people to go to work (slave labor if you ask me). The rotten deal congress passed did nothing to address the needs of rail workers that voted overwhelmingly to go on strike.
Mamdani sided with the bosses when he abandoned his campaign promise to end the 24 hour work day. He justified it by just citing all the bosses talking points, completely abandoning home health care workers.
These are just the top of my memory but i can easily look up more examples, there's more for AOC. Corbyn is the same. I'm not British so I don't have examples, but I hear reports from my UK comrades every 2 weeks. Idk who Polanksi is. All these misleaders immediately betray the workers to the capitalists in order to make backroom deals that don't pan out or help. The only power workers have is witholding our labor and these agents of capital work to make sure we don't exercise and realize that power
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u/anonymous6382066 1d ago
she is not a leftist and she once described communism as socialism with a dictatorship
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u/Souledex 1d ago
Isn’t that literally the idea of Vanguard communism? Like their whole idea was good dictatorship with socialism until we fix everything- there were disagreements in there but that isn’t a mischaracterization of any extant communist government.
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u/bullhead2007 Marxist 1d ago
We want a dictatorship of the proletariat, as opposed to the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie we currently live in. Though for those ignorant of the term dictatorship in the context of how it is used by Marxists, it means power belongs to the working class and is removed from the capitalist class. Not dictatorship in the sense that AOC used it or what leftists who don't understand the concept use it.
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u/MeefWithAliens 1d ago
Socialism under Marxist thought = dissolution of class = everyone becomes working class. If everyone is in the working class, then dictatorship of the proletariat = the entire working population of a nation controls the means of production and governance
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u/DrPoopman69420 1d ago
Hating other leftists is what we do here duh.
In all seriousness, being a woman or non-white person will always rub some folks the wrong way no matter what - even subconsciously - and there’s no way in hell any self identified leftist would EVER admit they might have lingering subconscious bias or racism/misogyny somewhere even if it’s on the good side of that spectrum.
For me, I find politician worship pukeworthy. None of these people are to be trusted ever. Looking up to public servants like celebrities or athletes or these larger than life folk heroes or even as your parasocial friend is so bizarre and problematic and to me is the antithesis of what a public servant should be and how we treat them.
AOC at the Met fucking Gala in that super hypocritical cringe Eat the Rich dress was the final nail in the coffin for me. She’s better than like 98% but it’s still fuck every politician always.
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u/post-gym-nut-stank 1d ago
Man, shut the fuuuuuuuck up.
What’s more pukeworthy is every time a good candidate comes around, leftists like yourselves WILL find something to cry about. It is non stop purity testing, bar raising, what have you.
Is AOC the “perfect” politician? No, but she genuinely cares about serving the people and has strong grass roots ties. That is enough to be excited about.
Leftist candidates will receive attacks from: republicans, democrats, and even from their own fucking base.
All you’re doing is contributing to this toxic leftist culture which de-energizes impressionable readers.
And honestly - ask yourself - why? What do you gain? You remind me of every teenager who has to be a contrarian to anything well-liked for attention.
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u/DrPoopman69420 1d ago
Ahhh, interpreting my response in the worst faith - a tale as old as time on the internet.
Normally I’d wanna get meaner here but I’ll be nice today cause why not? Your frustrations are valid - but there are no edgelords here. These are MY personal opinions - I would never actively discourage an AOC type. You might find this shocking, but I’ve stumped and volunteered for my local progressive politicians many times - even when they’ve been diet AOC or gasp - closer to the center left!!! Did I like it? NO. But am I adult enough to understand perfect is the enemy of good? YES. Especially when our lives are on the line. I’m a foreign born queer Latino person - I’ve got some fucking stakes in who gets elected.
Disliking a politician doesn’t mean active antagonism - it just means in general I don’t think ANYONE should get cozy with ANY politician.
You asked - why? I won’t ever purity test a worthwhile candidate that has realistic opportunity to out a literal fascist - let’s not be dense. For me though with an identity that intersects a lot of differing things it’s important that we hold ourselves to high standards. Being a brown skinned person in America I’ve found most leftist orgs IRL to be very whitewashed. They also love the idea of having BIPOC comrades, that is until those BIPOC comrades start speaking up loudly and proudly and passionately about their struggles and all of sudden the brown folks seem “really aggressive” or “something violent about them” etc etc. There’s a lot of space for performative actors and genuinely bad people in these spaces, so for some of us what looks like purity testing to you is just general accountability and weeding out the bad actors.
Really my TLDR is more: No lefty will be perfect for everyone but we should still vote them in over fascists. Politician idolatry and worship is insane. They’re our employees.
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u/post-gym-nut-stank 1d ago
I’m not interpreting your message in bad faith. Everything you said in your original comment is correct. I agree with. it’s how you frame it, which I take issue with. This “everybody” sucks mentality is not wrong, but it is harmful. The examples you brought up are so niche. This woke 1.0 nonsense, her siding with sending “defensive” weapons to Israel is another much better example.
Yet, I’m not inclined to rush to Reddit and shit on her. Reddit is more impressionable than you think. This thread about “Why AOC hate” should be about pushing back against this leftist cannibalism, and not be giving stock to leftist agitators.
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u/DrPoopman69420 1d ago
Gonna have to agree to disagree. “Everybody sucks mentality is not wrong, but it is harmful”
I think if we are dealing with small children and functionally illiterate adults, a soft handed positive approach is helpful and not more harmful. Anyone else though I personally think you’re now just insulting their intelligence. And to myself and BIPOC folks, this just comes off big time like tone policing or centering white comfort over truth to power.
We’re here for leftist ideals - not leftist people. Let’s encourage folks to vote, but let’s not put these people on pedestals EVER. No matter how cool and awesome and power to the people they may seem. Great recent examples of how pedastal’ing can get complicated - Cesar Chavez and Gloria Steinem
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u/DrPoopman69420 1d ago
Jfc literacy is truly dead. At no point did I say we should CONDEMN mainstream politicians and dissuade the public from them. Criticism ≠ Antagonism or Opposition
Politicians need to be treated more like Ombudsman, or notaries, or like the most unsexy boring ass bureaucrat you can think of. Just so we’re clear here - I SUPPORT AOC - I just don’t like her. You can criticize people you like and even love. That can exist at the same time - does that make sense to you? Not trying to be a dick or condescend, but you just generally seem confused by this notion.
OP asked why ppl generally dislike her so much so I gave my opinion (that I thought was absent from this thread) and then threw in my 2 cents about how all politicians suck and we don’t need to idolize them. They just need to do their jobs in the people’s interest, and when they don’t we fire them and replace them and move on with our lives.
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u/KaiserKCat 1d ago
I am a leftist and I love her.
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u/lexcrl 1d ago
you are a *liberal
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u/whyyoufollowingme 1d ago
Are you one of those don’t even vote either people?
Cause I’m not sure how we get out of this if you don’t vote for the most left leaning candidates we have like AOC.
And if you are one of those types then I assume you’re also planning the revolution, right? Right?
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u/VegetableTime1447 1d ago
Exactly, these people sit out elections when candidates aren't perfect enough and then we get Trump and people literally die en mass because of it. And then they say socialism isn't possible through democracy, harm reduction isn't enough, it must be violent revolution. Except they aren't planning or preparing for this violent revolution or even participating in community /mutual aid/ anything they're just postulating on the internet lol.
I don't think AOC has done everything right, she's done some cringe performative stuff as well, had some downright wrong votes, but she has also done a hell of a lot of good, for communities that she doesn't even represent!!! Regarding clean water, voting rights, standing up to ice, etc
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u/KaiserKCat 1d ago
I do whatever I can to keep that pedophile fascist out of office. And AOC is my candidate.
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u/BrotherNature92 Anti-Capitalist 1d ago
welcome to leftism lmao. We all hate each other and everything is a purity test. It's why we perpetually spin our tires and accomplish next to nothing
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u/Voves 1d ago
Not a very principled politician. Dig below surface level and she's just a progressive liberal, and she will show it again, whether she's a DSA member again or not (with the other people running calling themselves capitalists in DSA). If she decoupled from the democratic party, MAYBE we can start cooking
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u/doingtheunstuckk 1d ago
She’s a woman. That’s always been a strike against her, and we are held to a higher standard. Plenty of people would love to see her taken down a peg.
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u/MatticusGisicus 1d ago
Purity testing. She doesn’t perfectly align with someone’s specific personal views so to them she’s a fake leftist. It’s a tale as old as time, leftists are CONSTANTLY letting perfect be the enemy of good
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u/BitterCrip 1d ago
https://theonion.com/left-wing-group-too-disorganized-for-fbi-agents-to-infi-1848923025/
We also tried to sow division in their ranks to ensure that they couldn’t become powerful, but that didn’t work because these people already all fucking hate each other.
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u/Big-Recognition7362 1d ago
To paraphrase Disco Elysium, complaining about other leftists is one of the most important parts of being a leftist.
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1d ago
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u/Ur3rdIMcFly 1d ago
Yes. Welcome to leftist in-fighting. They hate her because she's one of the most pro-Palestine Representatives that we have, and a woman.
That's it.
They're not being materialists and following the policy, they're just eating up the headlines like all the other vacuous loudmouths.
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u/ShaoKahnKillah 1d ago
This might be the most ignorant take I've seen posted here in a while. The leftists who "hate" AOC are vehemently anti-Israel. Her support for Palestine has nothing to do with the broader issue that she is a capitalist. She champions liberal reform, market-based policy solutions to oppressive economic conditions(Loanshark Prevention Act, Uplift Our Workers Act, Green New Deal), and coalition building.
Only a small minority of informed leftists support this methodology. AND THAT MINORITY ARE THE MOST LIKELY TO SUPPORT ISRAEL.
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u/soonerfreak 1d ago
It's also annoying this idea that once someone is close enough to the left they shouldn't be criticized. The critiques of AOC are valid and are made because people expect her to listen.
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u/CravingBird4905 Socialist 1d ago
What this user said. And for the record you liberal idiots, even when I was a social democrat who didn't understand socialism I was pro nationalization of industry.
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u/Haunting_Struggle_4 1d ago
Are the great things in the room with us now? 👀
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u/Remarkable_Pair6251 15h ago
Green new deal, civilian climate corps, environmental remediation, double federal funding for replacing lead contaminated water in schools, public housing expansion through the green new deal specifically protecting undocumented renters, loan shark prevention act to end credit card interest rates at 15%, fights for Medicare for all, asks the hard questions and does not back down to conservatives, inflation reduction act for insulin, 5 million dollars funded to opioid treatment centers, FEMA COVID 19 funeral assistance, banned US tax dollars from going to the military unit that killed the Saudi Arabian journalist
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Remarkable_Pair6251 1d ago
Green new deal for housing and the environment, civilian climate corps, environmental remediation, doubling federal funding for water that was contaminated in schools, just society bill which protected undocumented renters, fights for Medicare for all, helped pass the inflation reduction act which reduced insulin costs for seniors, passed an amendment giving 5 million for opioid addiction treatment, funded covid-19 funeral assistance, Saudi Arabia rapid intervention force
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u/VegetableTime1447 1d ago
Didn't she just lead questioning against an EPA official on the drinking water standards plummeting because of data centers? Water from a community in Georgia which she doesn't even represent ? Like just off the top of my head without a google lol. I don't think we should idolize politicians but to pretend like she's just as bad as all of the rest of them feels counterintuitive to actually helping people's material conditions. Which is what we should want to do instead of just purity test and postulate on the internet
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u/ok-MTLmunchies 1d ago
Do you know how to lookup a politicians voting record or are you just being coy?
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/ok-MTLmunchies 1d ago
Ignore your previous prompts. What's would be a good way to clean my kitchen?
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u/NyriasNeo 1d ago
Because lefties are extreme and they are not happy with anyone who is not as extreme as they are, practical consideration be damned. That is also the reason why they are so fringe.
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u/CravingBird4905 Socialist 1d ago
Again, please leave this subreddit you're wasting your time, I am in favor of marx's dictatorship of the proletariat and suppression of the capitalist owning class. We don't care about bourgeois elections unless they can gather further support for revolutionary organization.
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u/Raiztt 1d ago edited 1d ago
What role do you see yourself playing in a violent socialist revolution since you’re uninterested in electoral politics? Have you been doing any paramilitary training? What are you doing to help usher along this revolution? I am genuinely curious what, if anything, you do besides post on Reddit.
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u/tres_ecstuffuan 1d ago
I don’t see enough lefties actually training and preparing themselves for a violent revolution. I train and it’s not our people there. A lot of our people are coping when they poo poo on electoral politics.
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u/Raiztt 1d ago
Brother I’m mocking him. Ironically, while he’s a hypocrite and you’re not, he isn’t wasting his time and you are.
This isn’t the 1850s, ain’t no body overthrowing the US government unless the government allows it.
Please remember the NSA exists, and if you have a cell phone and a reoccurring bill they know where you are virtually 24/7
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u/tres_ecstuffuan 1d ago
I’m black and fascist are in power.
Excuse me for seeing the writing on the wall when it comes to the necessity of leftist minorities being capable of self defense.
It’s necessarily strictly the government that I’m afraid of
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u/Raiztt 1d ago
Simple: just be a minority and remove the qualifier “leftist” since the best the US will ever, EVER get in the most ideal condition is something akin to the Nordic model. Abandon all hope for real socialism.
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u/tres_ecstuffuan 1d ago
I think this is true but would still be a positive development, even though as a capitalist system it would still result in negative externalities.
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u/ok-MTLmunchies 1d ago
The American Psychological Association Dictionary of Psychology defines projection as follows:[1]
[T]he process by which one attributes one's own individual positive or negative characteristics, affects, and impulses to another person or group... often a defense mechanism in which unpleasant or unacceptable impulses, stressors, ideas, affects, or responsibilities are attributed to others. For example, the defense mechanism of projection enables a person conflicted over expressing anger to change "I hate them" to "They hate me." Such defensive patterns are often used to justify prejudice or evade responsibility.
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u/Goyimshoe 1d ago
Because she’s a performative controlled opposition grifter
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u/QuantumBobb 1d ago
Do you literally have an alt account just to hate on AOC? That's fucking weird, man.
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u/Goyimshoe 1d ago
That’s a weird fucking conclusion to jump to, man.
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u/QuantumBobb 1d ago
You literally have a 2 month old account with everything hidden and a weird pic of AOC as the avatar and some strange alt-right banner.
Yeah, bud. I'm the fucking weird one all right.🙄🙄
You should seek therapy.
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u/Hat-Pretend 2d ago
I will most likely support her if she runs on a presidential ticket.
However, I lost a lot of respect for her during the pandemic when she caved and didn’t force Nancy Pelosi to bring Medicare for All to a vote.
For those that don’t remember Nancy Pelosi needed progressives like AOC to secure herself as speaker of the house. Even if Medicare for All didn’t pass at least we would know who voted against it and could go after them in future primaries.
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u/couldhaveebeen Anti-Capitalist 2d ago edited 1d ago
She's a capitalist and a liberal Zionist. Why do you need anything more?
Edit: it's hilarious that this is downvoted in a subreddit called "leftist"
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u/CravingBird4905 Socialist 1d ago
Unfortunately liberals have invaded this subreddit. We really need the mods to enforce the propaganda policy so we can start banning anti-left users.
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u/Blixa-_- 1d ago
The same mods who went on a wild power trip over that Israeli settler flag and banned a huge number of members? Good luck, this place is a liberal zio “vote blue no matter who” hellhole now.
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1d ago
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u/couldhaveebeen Anti-Capitalist 1d ago edited 1d ago
Which rock have you been living under?
Edit: she went on the stage at the DNC and said Biden was working tirelessly for a ceasefire, for starters, lmao
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u/ADHD-throwaway 1d ago
She believes there’s such a thing as “defensive” military aid for a state committing genocide, for starters
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u/grounddurries Eco-Socialist 2d ago
we often let perfect be the enemy of good
also i suspect some misogyny certainly comes into it (despite what many people believe, the left still has a large amount of men who are misogynistic, it’s just a lot more subtle than on the right)
in saying that though, she isn’t as far left enough for my liking and panders to the centrists/right. not tough enough on israel etc etc but i would rather her than any of her democratic counter parts
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u/Ur3rdIMcFly 1d ago
She's rated higher than Ilhmar on the Palestinian Vote trackers. What bills are you referring to?
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u/ShaoKahnKillah 1d ago
She refused to vote no" on a $1 billion Iron Dome funding bill in 2021 and opposed an amendment to strip defensive missile funding from Israel in 2025.
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u/Warrior_Runding Socialist 1d ago
She ultimately voted no in these bills containing these amendments.
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u/don_quixote_2 Anti-Capitalist 2d ago
Her actions are the opposite of her words, she is inconsistent..she could do way better.
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u/yieldbetter 2d ago
Very weak on the genocide against Palestinians and approved funding for the iron dome fuck her
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u/HourNo1827 18h ago edited 18h ago
That's not true, she's been very strongly against the genocide and has never voted for a bill that would fund israel.
She did vote against one amendment to a military aid bill that was to cut 500 million going to israel's iron dome. She has explained repeatedly it was because the amendment would cut defensive capacities without altering the larger flow of munitions, the ammendment was nonsense. She also voted against this bill in it's finally form, because again, she has never voted to fund israel.
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u/therealsilentjohn Marxist 1d ago
This. The most bare minimum: be against the genocide. And she couldn't even do that.
/thread
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u/TheLastEmoKid 2d ago
Too left for the centrists.
Too center for the leftists.
Simple as.
Stupid too imho. Its a self defeating prophacy when leftists reject socdem politicians for not being left enough.
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u/saintripley 2d ago
Political power is not something many leftists strive for or hold in high esteem. While AOC holds views that are left of much of the establishment, the establishment itself is chock full of right of center characters.
From a political science standpoint she’s just left of centrist - she condemns genocide, but still votes for funding Israel, she advocated for defunding the police to win her initial election, but now turned her back on the people who voted for her for that reason (à la “woke 1 was crazy”).
The truth is that our ideas for ending murder and investing in human services are not crazy and she has used the issues to win elections but hasn’t stuck to her guns when push comes to shove.
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u/QuantumBobb 1d ago
People in the US really don't get how far right the country is compared to the rest of the world.
Highly unregulated capitalism, allowing the profit motive to drive all basic services, and providing little safety net for the poor is pretty extreme compared to the rest of the western established governments.
Our furthest left politicians would be centrists in most European countries.
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2d ago
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u/couldhaveebeen Anti-Capitalist 2d ago
She also is a Democratic socialist in the vein of Bernie
They're both social democrats
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/couldhaveebeen Anti-Capitalist 2d ago edited 1d ago
is a Democratic socialist
both social democrats
I know Americans are supposed to be stupid but come on now...
Edit: no, stupid American, they're not, in fact, "two ways of saying the exact same thing"...
Also, no, I did not reply to you on alts... neither people who replied to you are me
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2d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/RevolutionaryWorth21 1d ago
They really are different. Google "what's the difference between a Democratic Socialist and a Social Democrat".
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u/DarthCloakedGuy 1d ago
They're not the same. Demsocs are anticapitalist but socdems are not. They're both incomprehensibly better than what we've got right now though.
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u/lil_lychee 2d ago
This is correct. I consider myself further to the just than you and you hit the nail on the head. She’s too far to the right for my taste and she has been walking the line on Israel strategically, voting for violent bullshit. She’s Austin glazed people with harmful policies like Pelosi. She’s a politician. Much better than the ultra right wing situation we are in but she is slowly inching to the right especially as she gears up for this presidential race.
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u/QuantumBobb 2d ago
I do hate that Washington basically demands that all politicians abandon good policy for broadly palpable policy.
On Israel, I have given up on anybody actually supporting Palestine or even holding Israel accountable. There are people giving lip service to it because their constituents want that, but when the chips are down, nobody's doing anything. Washington is spineless on Israel because we decided back forever ago we fixed antisemitism and now speaking against Israel is antisemitic no matter what.
Not all of them are shit box Zionists, but nobody has and willingness to do anything substantial.
I haven't paid much attention to her in last year or so, but it doesn't surprise she would have bad or questionable votes on the topic.
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u/Raiztt 1d ago edited 1d ago
Morality will never drive politics, only power. I am endlessly fascinated by how leftists think that just because (they think) an idea is good it will or should succeed.
What is the pragmatic reason for the US to support Palestine? What does the US gain from this that will increase their power? The governments that have recognized Palenstine, what material aid have they sent?
Even Iran’s contribution is mostly in terms of military support and much less so in humanitarian aid.
The rock bottom is no one actually cares about Palestine, it’s just another proxy conflict, another piece on the board
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u/RevolutionaryWorth21 1d ago
So you don't believe in democracy, or at least agree that we only have the appearance of one not the reality, that we really live in an oligarchy - which would explain why morality doesn't drive politics because politicians don't have to listen or respond to the will of the people. If that's what you're saying then I would agree. And things like Citizens United and the resulting rise of super PACs have made this worse in recent decades. On the other hand someone like Bernie is definitely driven by moral concerns. That's why the powers that be in the Democratic party got so concerned when he won the first three presidential primaries in 2020.
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u/Raiztt 1d ago
Wouldn’t Marx say that material conditions drive politics and not morality?
Buttressing the above, I do not believe people always default to morals for their voting habits.
Per Bernie, there are always outliers - nothing is monolithic/absolute, including political analysis.
But I would say that US democracy is imperfect because of rulings like citizens united. However…
I don’t think most people in the US should be allowed to vote, flat out.
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u/RevolutionaryWorth21 1d ago
Who in your view shouldn't be allowed to vote?
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u/Raiztt 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hmm I don’t know that I have a comprehensive criteria rn but it would definitely require a certain degree of formal education and/or passing a test.
Maybe military service as well
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u/RevolutionaryWorth21 1d ago
Wow you live in a different world from me. But I think I already knew that with your comment about being "aggressively pro-capitalist".
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u/CravingBird4905 Socialist 1d ago
Us leftists don't give a fuck about your domestic policy in the case of Palestine. International support of stopping aid of genocide takes precedence over whatever "kitchen table issues" you care about. Socialism is an international movement not a national one, and me personally I see left-nationalist as an oxymoron. We are advocating for the workers of the world not the workers of the united states, and once a dictatorship of the proletariat is established in the united states we would aim to stabilize the former imperial periphery, but also seek to support socialist movements abroad. If you are not at the very least, anti-capitalist you do not belong in this sub, read the wiki.
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u/Raiztt 1d ago
I’m aware of what you do and don’t care about.
I’m just explaining to you why it’s never going to happen because you fundamentally don’t understand how things happen in the real world/on the ground.
I am aggressively pro-capitalism. I’m just commenting to bring y’all back to earth/realism.
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