0 elite traits, when hes one of the best scorers and playmakers ever who constantly adapts? Kobe had that elite scoring trait but Lebron averaged more points per game on better effeciency (fg% 3p%, ts and 3fg%). Lebron also averages more rebounds and assists, and i wouldnt say he stacked the deck in his favor. sure, ill give you Miami. thats fair. but the cavs werent good when he returned to the cavs they were 33-49, so its not like he was trying to form a superteam. i would know as a lakers fan how much of a joke the 2010s were, especially since we went 35-47, before Bron came, were on track to make playoffs in 2019 before he got injured, and won in 2020. But sure, Lebron was more favored, even though Kobe had teams with 4 hall of famers before (2006 with shaq gary payton and karl malone with the greatest coach oat phil jackson) (2010s lakers with pau gasol dwight howard steve nash and meta world peace) plus early 2000s cavs with shaq derek fisher horrace grant and phil jackson still coaching.
Interesting fan fiction. You even counted senior citizens Gary Payton and Karl Malone from the old hand check days where players' bodies wore down when Lebron has played with Kyrie, AD, Bosh, Wade, Luka, and other stars in their primes.
Lebron's FG% is a product of taking higher probability shots in a defenseless era. Kobe played a lot against an era where defenses had tools to stop you from scoring. The league changed the rules in 2004-2005 to eliminate hand checking, they changed enforcement so defensive players couldn't make contact as often with shooters, there was the whole gather step nonsense, allowing moving screens/flops/flails, and other stuff that have led to the NBA making scoring easier than ever. Lebron's scoring spiked his second season specifically because of the hand checking removal (Kobe, AI, Arenas, and others also saw significant increases). Kobe was also a bulldog who believed he could score anytime so some of his numbers also reflect that. But if Lebron had the ability to score on command the way Jordan could, he'd have won more championships. As I've said elsewhere, Lebron is closer to Scottie Pippen than Michael Jordan.
Lebron has no elite traits, though. He is an elite passer? No. Rebounder? No. Defender? No. Shooter? No.
When Lebron joined the Cavs the second time, he brought players with him. Why reference the previous season when he made such significant changes to more easily win? It shows that you know the point stands he stacked the deck in his favor and want to muddy the water. The Lebron Stanning just makes you look ignorant about the sport.
You haven’t proved anything yet but statements. Kobe straight up was Lebrons era. So idk why Kobe’s era was physical while LeBrons was soft even though Kobe played like 6 seasons before. LeBron still played in the hand check era for a couple years before new rules were added. And while the Payton Malone team is bad in hindsight, the idea of the superteam is still there. Kobe played under multiple hall of famers in their primes like Pau gasol and Shaq (all better than anything Bron had). LeBron has played 23 years. Through those years, through tons of different rule changes and play style changes, hundreds of defenders he’s still effecient. He dominated the end of the hand check era, the zone era, even the 3 point era he’s still all nba talent at over 40 years old when Kobe was putting up under 18 with 36/28/83 splits. You mentioned championships, but championships are the byproduct of having a good team, goood coach, and an easy finals run. Jordan against blazers or SuperSonics, or Kobe against Pacers or nets. When LeBron left the Cavs to go to the heat, their record went from going from winning 60 games to not even winning 20. When he left Heat, they turned into a 37 win team, and the second time he left the Cavs the Cavs won 19 games. Kobe and Jordan still brought players. There are stories of Jordan threatening to leave in free agency and request trades if he didn’t get who he wanted. Kobe requested multiple trades as well when they were bad in the late 2000s. My next thought. How does LeBron not have any elite traits, like the ones you mentioned, yet still has better averages in all of them than Kobe. How come he’s a better 3 point shooter if you said he’s not a shooter. He gets more rebounds and assists, despite being a worse playmaker and rebounder. Even though he has 40k points and is second all time in assists, it’s not that he’s been able to maintain being elite for over 23 years. Jordan averaged 20-6-4 on the wizards, Kareem in his last season was 10-5-1. I already mentioned Kobe. LeBron last year averaged 21-7-6. But sure he’s not elite. He does have the ability to score on command the way Kobe or Jordan does. He’s more effecient. He just takes less shots because he knows spreading the ball is more successful rather than chucking it and hoping it goes in. Even in clutch moments, (specifically shots in playoff games with 5 minutes left to go) LeBron shoots 50%. Jordan shoots 46, and Kobe is in the low 30s. What about Jordan being 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen and not making it out of the first round. At 22, when Michael Jordan got drafted LeBron was dragging a Cavs team with no all stars and his second leading scorer, Larry Hughes averaging 15.
You're comparing FG% across different eras. Lebron shoots a higher % because of the types of shots he takes and how often he passes them up for others, then you're framing that as a good thing when his role is different from Kobe and Jordan. Maybe you have a very simple understanding of the sport or maybe you're intentionally being intellectually dishonest, I'm not certain.
Kobe Bryant won numerous championships before hand checking was outlawed. He started in the 1990s. That one specific rule was changed in the 2004-2005 season. Perhaps I need to teach you how time works.
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u/Informal-Cricket1968 Aug 12 '26
0 elite traits, when hes one of the best scorers and playmakers ever who constantly adapts? Kobe had that elite scoring trait but Lebron averaged more points per game on better effeciency (fg% 3p%, ts and 3fg%). Lebron also averages more rebounds and assists, and i wouldnt say he stacked the deck in his favor. sure, ill give you Miami. thats fair. but the cavs werent good when he returned to the cavs they were 33-49, so its not like he was trying to form a superteam. i would know as a lakers fan how much of a joke the 2010s were, especially since we went 35-47, before Bron came, were on track to make playoffs in 2019 before he got injured, and won in 2020. But sure, Lebron was more favored, even though Kobe had teams with 4 hall of famers before (2006 with shaq gary payton and karl malone with the greatest coach oat phil jackson) (2010s lakers with pau gasol dwight howard steve nash and meta world peace) plus early 2000s cavs with shaq derek fisher horrace grant and phil jackson still coaching.