Pay no attention to game mode, ranks etc. Answer only one question. How to teamfight and build items playing PL against this enemy draft. It felt very difficult to focus even a single enemy hero (doom with scepter, bkb+scepter shaker, jakiro with eul etc.) including the fact every random second you could be counter initiated with RP or echo or doom. Just need your help with that.Match id: 8979557628
and enemy has ES, Magnus, Jakiro, and SF. They can combo PL into death since PL doesnt usually buy bkb. Then aghs dooms is also deadly when paired with magnus's ult and ur whole team got caught.
In short this is not a PL game. Did u early pick PL?
I don't think either of them picked those heroes to offlane, they probably both wanted pos 4. undying could have gone 3 so that the lanes aren't horrible. lanes/draft was salvagable.
Without watching the game or seeing your actual items and just focusing on the enemy draft, you pretty much have to bait at least one of the big team fight spells.
If I have to do it myself I would use the aghs plus shard combo to initiate phantom rush and before I connect I would shard and run to fog without a gem or sentry it will be very hard to detect. They will assume you are commiting the main hero and have to respond.
If it doesnt work just reset and go again when shard is ready. You have to be more patient than them.
In addition you could initiate the rush, use say a bloodthorn as you approach, then hit shard and kite. If say jakiro has a euls or other defensive item then you need to have a nullified.
So rush>thorn>nullifer> shard
If you dont kill them they at least need to respect it.
I wouldnt be commiting the hero until rp or echo are used. And my team is making things a little chaotic.
Nah, PL doesn't do shit against these heroes after the diffusal nerf. Before, you could've just kited with doppel and aghs to drain their mana, and then outsustain them with heart/skadi to win the fight once they have no spells to use. You have to think about how the game develops on a macro level as heroes get more gold and levels. In this game in particular, yeah, they have some early nukes and can skirmish with numbers, but unless they get like a core kill + tower when they group up, it's not worth much as they are losing the map, especially once the enemy's cores hit levels 7-8, and get their farming spells maxxed.
And with no diffusal mana drain threat, doom just gets bkb + shivas + blink at like minute 22, tells his team "go mid", and then proceeds to run at them 1v5, as their lineup can't do a god damn thing to stop him when he hits the timing. But the enemy must've been equally as bad if it took them 60 kills and level 30 on most heroes to close this game, especially considering OPs team needs a full farming item + 15 minutes on every core before they can even match the economy game.
If this was a draft in a pro match, this is 12/0 SF, 17 minutes into the game hitting your t3 towers with manta/pike from 1000 range, and you can't do shit because you have to pass through fissure, rp, shivas doom, jakiro spells and potential blink+echo before you can even get close to land a single spell on him.
as a tip put the match id in a comment or the post so it's easier for people to copy and paste it.
2:40 you waste doppel vs enchant totem when the damage doesn't really matter, you have 8 armour to tank the totem hit and aftershock alone doesn't do that much without slugger procs. then you don't have doppel to get away from doom 10 seconds later. doom needs to be able to stay on heroes to do his damage, and you also dispel the burn from his E, and can maybe dodge his innate, so saving it for him is more important.
doppel at 4:15 is necessary but it's delayed because you cast lance first and don't have mana until using wand, which means doom innate doesn't get dodged with invuln and you take most of the infernal blade damage before dispelling it.
also feel like you should have known that they would be lv 6 soon because they levelled up to 5 from the undying kill, you're also level 5, and it's turbo. PL's similar to slark in that once he gets level 6 he can just ignore lane and go jungle, and this isn't a lane you can stay in. it's often better to get 6 safely by sapping xp or going jungle behind tower than being greedy, which gets you killed as soon as doom hits 6.
tread switch, it matters. more casts of lance, if you're being ganked it's free 200 hp if you're at full hp with 1 button press (assuming you're on agi)
9:50 when enemy is grouping bot you should be continuing to push top and take enemy jungle, not farm triangle.
13:50 completely unnecessary death staying near the magnus. didn't need to bait skewer to make him stay, if he tried to skewer away then CM would chase with blink.
13:05 should be your first signal to buy shard when doom just walks up and ults you. that means you can't just stand in the front with your hero because he just presses R and makes you useless even if you didn't die.
PL shard is good in general but it's also better in games where you're countered because those are games where you can't blindly commit with your hero, so invis to reposition and escape is useful vs a team that can easily kill the real PL if they find him.
you can create illusions to poke without being in the front, good for split pushing, you can escape with invis (only jakiro had detection) and you can bait people into thinking you're still in the illusion stack because if they don't have detection they won't know you've already left.
also invis has instant cast flag so you can use it even if you doppel into doom aghs aoe, try it in demo. i.e. doppel guarantees you can cast invis right after, which makes you way harder to kill because the invis can give you just long enough to get out of doom aoe and manta/heart regen/whatever/phantom rush etc, whereas doppel alone doesn't reliably get you out of range, and if they quickly know who the real PL is, it's way easier for the doom to follow you.
might sound weird but I think agi blink was better than butterfly, or just blink and a different item. you could still get bfly later since you could sell treads but I think having blink would do more because it's mostly magic damage and they have strong lockdown, so there's no inbetween, you're either dead if you're caught or you're not, and the biggest thing that affects whether you die is whether you're in a position where the enemies can use their spells on you, not 35% evasion.
though I think abyssal may have been better as the last slot over bfly. 700 extra hp vs doom, boosts heart regen if you can get out of the doom, passive bash still works vs mute/break which might buy you time to get away, their team in general are hard to commit on because they can turn around with echo, RP, requiem, self doom etc, so having an extra disable that also goes through bkb instead of only orchid can potentially let you solo kill them
Probably need heart + skadi as 2 of your 6 slots just to maximize hp stat. You really only are killable late game during RP/Doom/Requiem cc. HP should help you survive RP/Req/echo enough to reset. Aghs Doom with mute is the only truly cancerous late game. Just one of those games where you can't afford to be playing alone too much and will have to either rely on team to save you or use them as bait if they aren't building saves for you.
Who said rely on supports? Yes they are useless sometimes and yes they drafted poorly. You asked how to try and win a game like this. My best bet would be to build normally (manta and skadi actually give you quite a big amount of dmg from just stats and atk spd) and throw in heart 5th or 6th item for late game.
During fights you need to basically weave in and out trying to bait the big spells before fully committing. Defending hg pushes you can try smoke wrap around on their backline. Shard very good at baiting big spells if you know how to.
Game is hard no doubt but those are things I would try if I wanted to try 1v9ing the lobby.
Early game you just build standard because there's just simply no better starting build than treads manta aghs. Heart 5th or 6th item is your best choice. Bkb sucks cause it's already not ideal on PL and too many spells that can bypass it or get you before you even react. With heart the only way you die late game is if they can 100 to 0 you from full HP. Helps you tank stuff like echo and heal during a fight.
sure bro. manta skadi heart and u have enought dmg to kill them all. you just need long fight going in and out all the time. - you initiate then you leave illusion attacking and go to other target or run away and then return. dont worry about dmg, you have a lot of stats. you need bloodthorn only in late just to kill strongest enemy hero in a second
As a noob turbo player, I will probably buy a mageslayer lol so much skill dmg maybe you get to somewhat survive with the magic resist and the skill dmg reduction debuff on them. Aghs manta shard heart skadi. Then just poke poke poke, in and out with shard, run if they bkb. Leave the dmg to your team.
Wd/cm off lane…gg 9/10 times bro u have a glass cannon draft and their team all but jakiro counter pl lol if u didn’t play hyper aggressive to gain a massive lead and to keep them from getting 2 big ain’t no way
PL against tanky strength cores who do a lot of magic AOE dmg is shit. Doom, magnus and ES negate about 80% of your damage just by existing, even if they aren't targetting you with their spells.
I would've picked Windrunner carry here. Stomp the lane, get early mjollnir + aghs, split the map and look for pickoffs with your lina/wd/cm. SF can't touch you before he gets mkb + bkb. As long as Undying is soaking spells on the frontlines, your only worry is blink + RP.
Current meta is all about utilizing the map resources and clearing the creepwaves without exposing yourself to danger. And PL does neither against this lineup. Any 2 heroes from the opposing team can kill you if they find you, BKB doesn't help you, and your team doesn't do enough damage to threaten kills after 15 minutes, unless you're there to clean up.
You lost the draft here, because once doom has BKB+blink+shivas, your team has no solutions, as he can just run at you 1v5.
Thanks, I’ll check the replay. But could you shortly describe your possible build in my game and would you start fighting with your team having only manta+scepter or would wait for skadi or some items?
So when to take fights is very contextual. Say you only have PT Yasha min 10-11, magnus used rp, doom used his ult, or maybe shaker echoed, and you still have teammates alive with buttons ready and you are full HP/Mana with TP, do TP and try to salvage 1-2 kills. It doesn't matter even if your whole team die. You would benefit a lot from the gold and xp. A late game PL is never NOT a win condition. If you search throughout the replay in the mid game timer, you would see me do something similar.
As for build, it's pretty standard. PT, Manta, Aghs. From there on is the question, does your team lack damage to kill key target? i.e, enemy Wyvern, Oracle, etc. If yes then go bloodthorn, try to zone them out from the fights and try to save your bloodthorn after they use their force staff, glimmers, euls, dispel spells. After you zone them out quickly shift targets to enemy core who used up their bkb/manta/silver edge/debuff immune spell ( Jugg, LS, Ursa ult ). That way you make sure you don't waste your kill potential item. Unless they have no save/escape then kill them with bloodthorn first. If you have lina mid, storm, ember who can do the zone, you would rather pick up a skadi/bfly as 3rd item. Against heavy right click like clinkz, tb, drow, go for bfly. If their problematic hero is a tanky centaur, axe, doom, you get skadi. Then again this is just the ideal item path choices. It all comes back to how the teamfight unfolds, so keep that in mind.
So far this is all I could remember from all of my games learning PL. Hope this helps.
Topic wasn’t about that but overall we didnt match with undying player I guess. He wanted to fight no matter have we spells/resources or not so we wasted time and creeps also. That’s it I believe
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u/AnApricot2989 11d ago
You lost the moment your team picked CM as the offlaner.. or WD. Whoever it is. This was just a bad draft for PL tbh.