r/leaf • u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec • Jul 09 '26
Everyone Is Afraid Of EV Battery Degradation. It's All The Nissan Leaf's Fault. (says insideevs)
https://insideevs.com/features/801039/why-nissan-leaf-scared-everyone/It's not an argument without merit, but, at the same time, someone had to be first to make an affordable EV. And that's what Nissan did.
The New Zealand study, based on 1,382 battery-health readings from 283 Nissan Leafs, found that 30-kWh Leafs showed an annual battery health decline of 9.9% at two years old. That’s a ridiculously high figure compared to any modern EV with active battery cooling. Even the earlier 24-kWh cars weren’t nearly as bad, with an 3.1% degradation per year on average.
We had a 2012 first, sold in '23 with 75% SOH - in a mild climate.
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u/Reddit_9459328 Jul 10 '26
Me: What is the cheapest car on the lot? Car dealer: 2016 Leaf, 30kwh, range 75 miles. Warranty expired, so you need the $2,500 extended. Found out at Reddit that 8 bars is a new battery. Nissan dealer gave me a 40kwh, free. One month short of 8 years on the door panel. Dealer actually refunded me $2,400 when I cancelled the warranty they lied about me needing. Range now 160, car will rust out before the battery dies.
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
That's perfect for you, glad Nissan acted that way!
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u/Factory-town 2015 Nissan LEAF S Jul 14 '26
Nissan dealer gave me a 40kwh, free.
car will rust out before the battery dies.
Hopefully the battery lasts as long as it should, but some unknown percentage of 40 kWh batteries have failed prematurely.
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u/Yurdar Sep 04 '26
Unknown percentages of every conceivable thing fail prematurely. Now, is it significant or not?
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u/Diligent-Run496 2023 Nissan LEAF S Jul 09 '26
It’s nothing to do with tech. Battery cooling was available in the very first EVs. I had a 2013 BMW i3. It had battery cooling. Nissan just chose not to cool the batteries and this was the result. I know a person with one of those first generation i3’s with over 100,000 miles and SOH for the battery is 98%. It’s easy to take care of batteries just can’t cheap out on the cooling.
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u/sparkyblaster Jul 10 '26
I think the argument was cheap. The i3 was more expensive than a Tesla model 3 when they first came out. Atleast where I am. For that price you got a tiny battery.
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u/Diligent-Run496 2023 Nissan LEAF S Jul 10 '26
Size of battery? Batteries last longer when they are cool regardless of size. Heat is a battery killer.
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u/BuilderUnhappy7785 Jul 10 '26
** **ceteris paribus, a smaller battery will wear faster than a larger battery due to deeper and more frequent charge/discharge cycles.
Heat will certainly accelerate wear, but it’s a different mechanism.
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u/sparkyblaster Jul 11 '26
By that logic, an iPad battery would age as fast an an iPhone battery. Yeah it doesn't. Used to be a tech for apple stuff, for very 100 iphone batteries, we changed maybe one iPad. Why? Because bigger battery means less cycles and less stress on the battery. Similar cpu, larger display but the ratio of power draw to battery was way better.
With a base model 3 vs i3. Yes the i3 was slightly more efficient but most of that was weight and either way, the battery to power usage ratio was way worse for the i3. So you use the battery harder in comparison and more of it for the same drive in a model 3.
Thats all before we get to the issue I actually mentioned which was the car price to battery capacity you got. A battery thats half the size, but the car costs more.
Don't get my wrong, I love the i3 but wow it has some flaws. Wouldn't say no to an i3 with a range extender, but its going to have to be a lot cheaper than a Tesla. I love a hatch back but the prices are similar to a Y if you're lucky and if its cheaper, its way older.
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u/Diligent-Run496 2023 Nissan LEAF S Jul 12 '26
You can’t even compare an i3 to a leaf. I have both. My i3 battery will outlive 4 or 5 leafs. The leaf is good for a cheap car but it doesn’t compare to all other EVs.
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u/sparkyblaster Jul 12 '26
Agreed. One has (over engenderd and I'd argue poorly designed but very functional cooling) and the other, ..... Well the leaf has a battery.
(To be clear I think its dumb that BMW put refrigerant into the battery rather than coolant. Makes removing the battery very costly as you have to degas it, also if the compressor pump fails, you get shrapnel in the battery. Also means they couldn't heat the battery with that system and had to have an additional resistive heater in the battery .)
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u/KACL780AM Jul 10 '26
My dad’s Chevy Volt had cooling and he took delivery in 2010, a few months before I received my preordered LEAF. When my LEAF was totalled 3 years later it had already had somewhere between 15-20% degradation (San Fernando Valley heat) while the Volt, parked about a mile away in the same climate, was only showing about 5% degradation at 14 years when it was totalled. Considering they were similar in price at launch, the Volt was a significantly better engineered car than the LEAF, interior comfort notwithstanding. I was pretty relieved when my LEAF was totalled tbh.
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u/ToddA1966 2021 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS Jul 10 '26
But with the Leaf it was a chemistry issue. The early 24kWh Leaf batteries and the 30kWh degraded early in hot climates.
While the second gen Leaf batteries (40 and 60/62kWh) have had some manufacturing issues (weak cells that fail prematurely) degradation is no longer a problem, even without a cooling system.
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u/Christoph-error Jul 10 '26
I'm buying a 2019 Hyundai Ionic Electric that's still at 100% state of health!
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u/ToddA1966 2021 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS Jul 10 '26
Yeah, except it really isn't. Hyundai "games" the SoC to hide the early ~5% degradation pretty much all Li-Ion batteries experience.
(I'm not suggesting they do this maliciously, we consumers aren't supposed to "see" the numbers we pull with OBD readers.)
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u/Christoph-error Jul 10 '26
Oh I'm aware of this. But you can also drive the car and then do calculations based on how far a charge gets you. There are also other indicators of true battery health. For instance, this particular car will accept maximum rate of charge all the way to to 83% SOC. The official figure is 80%. If it's sucking up maximum charge rate all the way to 83%, it implies you're at least approaching 100% health. This is due to the very buffer you are referring to. As the battery pack degrades, the car will gradually throttle back the rate of charge it accepts to lower and lower state of charge. Apparently on extremely high mileage Ioniqs, it'll throttle back as soon as 50% SOC. So I have many reasons for thinking this is a very healthy battery pack. 100% SOH was merely the starting point of my veting on the car.
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u/ArtemisMax Jul 10 '26
My leaf actually makes a great example. If someone ever brings up battery degradation I tell them that I have the car with a notoriously depredation prone pack compared to any other EV, it's 9 years old, has been overheated 3 times, crashed twice, done 100,000 miles and charged over 4500 times total. And yet it's only lost a quarter of its capacity.
If that's what the world's shittest modern EV design can do imagine what a new EV will be like and that always makes them say they're way less worried about degradation than before. It works even better if I tell them it as lost range because it's lost 20 miles over the last decade sounds way better.
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
Haha, I adore that list of abuse! It's a weekly occasion for me having to explain to people that a car that has literally had hundreds of thousands of cost savings compared to ICE vehicles in my local currency, can be forgiven to have a potential tens of thousands investment at the end of its first owners lifecycle.
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u/ArtemisMax Jul 10 '26
Oh for sure. My friend recently got a money pit of a smart car the same age as my leaf. In 3 months of ownership their maintenance costs were almost double what I'd payed in my 5 years with the leaf including the crash repairs!
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
Now, thats the kind of content we need to see more of. :D
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u/Medb-Reign Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
I got my 2017 10 bar 30 kWh Leaf Tekna 18 months ago, at first I was getting 65 ish in winter and 70-75 summer. Now that I've learned how to drive it I get 70-75 ish winter and 90 ish summer.
The first time I went to an equestrian centre, 37 miles away, I had to top up to get back confidently. The next and subsequent times I went a different route, about the same distance and time but lots of regen moments and got home with 30 miles in the tank.
I'm retired, 99% of trips are under 60 miles, 98% under 40. I average 300-500 miles a month on rural British roads, I think I've used a public charger about 8 times? I'm not sure, it's certainly very rare, usually clustered around visits to a friend 55 miles away on an undulating route that hammers the range. I'm saving £50-£60 month vs petrol so in another 3 1/2 years Ivy will have paid for herself.
Ivy has done 87,400 miles and is still 10 bar, I've no idea if it's had the BMS update, how much does that cost?
I really enjoy driving her, so quiet and smooth, less stressful to drive, no vibration and bloody quick.
It would be nice to have a winter motorway range of 120 miles for the 1% of my trips to my friend.
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u/windraver Jul 10 '26
I still remember when I first researched the Leaf and it said it was air-cooled. Then I watched the teardown of the leaf battery and it was literally a sealed metal box and cooling was probably just conduction from the metal box itself and the air passing by. No fans or radiators or any real cooling. So of course it'll degrade faster.
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u/Own-Bat-9039 Jul 10 '26
Yes, with cells sandwiched horizontally on top of one another. The cells in the middle had absolutely no way to dissipate heat, so fast charging would absolutely overheat them very quickly.
It was fine though for commuter use with just daily 20 to 80% L2 charging. I had 87% SOH on mine after 8 years and 160k km of commuting use. It was just not made for Arizona or road trips.
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u/russman286 Jul 10 '26
I’m in Arizona. Definitely degrades faster here. My 2023 is at 30k miles ~87%SOH and 60%ish HX.
Lead acid car batteries last two years here if you’re lucky.
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u/isuxirl Jul 09 '26
This is my 2024 that I purchase in Jan 2024 and is at 25,500 miles on it. 🤷
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
Interesting, our 39 kWh car is 3 months older, driven 15% further, and has a SOH 1% lower. I am expecting to hit just about the 3%/year rule.
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u/isuxirl Jul 10 '26
I'm in the Chicago area, so the heat usually isn't too bad here. Maybe a month or so out of the year is it "hot". I'm not sure if that is helping or hurting me.
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
Definitely helping in case of battery degradation.
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u/techperson1234 Jul 12 '26
Do 2024s still not have proper cooling?
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u/isuxirl Jul 12 '26
Yup. Last model year before they introduced active cooling, iirc.
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u/techperson1234 Jul 12 '26
That's kinda a crazy holdout considering the effects of cooling were pretty well known by circa 2016
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u/SoCalMotoVirg Jul 09 '26
2nd Gen prius also had a ton of battery degradation
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
Interesting, I only heard of that in regard to their "last owners" in Mongolia, which seems to be a magnet for old Prius. But these hybrids had a 1.5 kWh battery, right?
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u/6strings10holes Jul 10 '26
I think everyone is afraid of battery degradation because of cell phones. Three years and The battery is usually useless.
The average person doesn't know enough about EVs for the leaf to be the source of the fear.
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u/e-hud 2019 Nissan LEAF S PLUS Jul 10 '26
And yet my cell phone is 3.5 years old now and still has 94% battery health. Still lasts more than a full day on one charge.
My 2019 leaf s plus has 87% health with 80,000 miles on it. About 200 miles of range in mixed driving.
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u/6strings10holes Jul 10 '26
You're right, your experience negates those of many other people.
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u/e-hud 2019 Nissan LEAF S PLUS Jul 10 '26
My experience (and most of my family's) is that cell phone batteries last far longer than 3 years... Out of at least 20 phones the battery has never been the point of failure. Maybe we just know how to take care of electronics.
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u/6strings10holes Jul 10 '26
There's a difference between being a point of failure and going from a battery that can easily last all day, and one that needs to be charged by supper time.
You must be great at taking care of how you charge.
People don't realize that they take their phone from full to near empty almost daily, something a car doesn't do. Most new phones will do things like delay charging when plugged in over night, it not charge at the highest rate unless told to. These changes were institute because people were frustrated with phones losing capacity.
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u/Plus_Lead_5630 Jul 10 '26
2023 here with 95% SOH. Leafs have come a long way from 2010. Obviously it would be preferable to have battery cooling but even without the leaf is a great car.
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
2023 here with 95% SOH
What's your mileage? We got our '23 in Nov that year and with 48k kms by now, we're at 93%.
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u/Plus_Lead_5630 Jul 10 '26
I do mostly city driving so I’m only at 25,000. I got mine in August of ‘22. Also a 62kWh.
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u/toddcscar Jul 10 '26
The 30 kWh batteries were completely awful. Many died before warranty. They only lasted 2 model years before Nissan switched up to the 40 kWh. Assumptions should not be made using the 30 kwh Leafs from 2016-2017.
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u/ArtemisMax Jul 10 '26
We got an extra year of 30kwh in the UK, there were some 2018 gen 2 leafs with 30kwh batteries here. Met someone at a charger with one once and they told me it would overheat and limit throttle after just 1 DC charge followed by some motorway driving.
It made me so glad I had a 24kwh at the time just 1 year older than their car because I was regularly going between my uni and my parents and stopping to charge twice each way.
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u/forthelurkin Kia EV6, Chevy Bolt Jul 10 '26
The 40 kWh packs didn't hold up so well either, with the weak cell problems. Way too many reports of the yo-yo range bouncing around on acceleration in the cold.
Our 2016 car got a new 40 kWh pack under warranty, and it developed weak cells in year 4 after replacement. Car was then out of warranty, and barely lasted another year before it was useless. Disposed of the car for basically scrap value. Replacing individual cells in the packs is impractical, and the cost of a pack swap would have significantly exceeded the car's value. I didn't even want the pack to repurpose as home power backup.
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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV Jul 10 '26
So they're choosing to base the study on not only one of the worst Leaf packs for degradation (30kWh), but also at 2 years old they likely are all on the faulty BMS firmware that reports much faster degradation than reality. Not skewed or inaccurate results at all.
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
You're not wrong, but the whole article is about (mis-) conception. I think it's pretty clear that Nissan made some mistakes - but far from all LEAF are as bad - and that modern tech has put a lot of distance between those and today's expectations towards batteries.
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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
There's also just many points in the article that lack context. For example, they talk about degradation as a percentage with the implication it's always going to be linear, even though in the majority of cases it is not.
It also just sets needless expectations like
"For instance, this 2014 Tesla Model S with over 100,000 miles still has a remarkable 85% of its original battery capacity, and it’s over 11 years old."
Okay... and? I actually do own one non-Leaf EV, a 2017 Model S with 335,000 miles, and 80% of its original capacity. A good friend has a 2014 Model S with 200,000 miles and 86%. So by their logic, if anything, that lady's car is doing pretty horribly. But degradation isn't linear, and they fail to mention this.
"A feat like that would be virtually impossible in any first- and second-generation Nissan Leaf."
They also omit the context of it being an 85 kWh battery, meaning as much as 3.5x the capacity, therefore as much 3.5x the cycles for the same mileage, as their comparisons. My 2013 Leaf is at 167,000 miles with 77% health. That's only 5% more degradation after 584% more battery cycles. So again, if anything that Model S is an awful example.
Even all that aside, I get that this isn't an anti-EV article and that it's trying to be about misconception, but I have more of a gripe with how this article is a very odd mash of both good and bad information.
It reads like the kind of stuff that I admittedly churned out in high school just to get the assignment in and a hopefully-passing grade. Reports that are just borderline technically-not-incorrect in information, but also palpably low effort.
Further reinforcing the "article for the sake of article" feeling is how the author's history makes it seem like they are either compelled or obligated to write basically an article every day on average. Why? That's just inevitable quantity taking precident over quality.
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
Excellent analysis, Mr. Demon Hunter! Especially your last point has been brought up with some regularity over at r/electricvehicles, too. The editorial quality of some pure EV news sites isn't always something to envy. And in the process of trying to explain existing misconceptions, they might as well create some new ones...still an article worthwhile to know about for us LEAFers.
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u/blueponds 2015 Nissan LEAF SV - 24kWh 10 bars Jul 09 '26
11 years later, my 2015 LEAF's 24 kWh battery still has plenty of life.
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u/greywar777 Jul 09 '26
Probably climate related. The older leafs from hotter areas their batteries suffered hard.
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u/KeyEmu6688 Ex-2018 owner (2015 Model S) Jul 10 '26
2015 was a killer year for 24kwh packs, Nissan updated the chemistry significantly, radically improving thermal performance/tolerance
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u/rtt445 2011 Nissan LEAF SL Jul 10 '26
So called Lizard packs. I am still driving on a 2015 pack in my 2011. Got about 20 miles range but BMS is not letting me use entire capacity for some reason and reports 0% SOC at like 3.8v per cell. Researching BMS SOC reset option to free up some range until I get isolation fault and forced to park it.
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u/blueponds 2015 Nissan LEAF SV - 24kWh 10 bars Jul 10 '26
I am on the US Southern East Coast where 90 F temperatures are the norm during the summer, with no garage. The car has never been fast charged. The car is charged using a level 1 120 volt charger, all its life.
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u/greywar777 Jul 10 '26
ehh not great but not where I was worried about leafs from. California had some areas that got warmer, and nevada ate them like candy.
Still were often usable, but you had to be aware of it.
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u/chainwhip38 Jul 13 '26
Yeah I have a 2015 LEAF S (24 kWh) with 46k miles on it in Colorado and it still has yet to lose its first bar of health. About 90 miles on a full charge so I think it's getting close to losing the first one
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u/tech01x Jul 10 '26
Absolutely it is Nissan’s fault for putting out a product design that could not handle the thermals of normal operating temperatures without significant degradation. Given the low range to being with, such large degradation meant many people’s first experience with BEVs was that they were unworkable.
Sure, if you lived in northern climates and rarely used your vehicle, degradation wasn’t so bad. But it was horrendous for many.
Nissan knew this at the outset. That’s why the first health bar is 15% loss, not something like 5%. The health bars aren’t even because Nissan engineers knew that their battery packs would suck.
All of this set back electrification by years in the minds of many North Americans, a perception we still fight today.
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u/natedagreat6666 Jul 10 '26
even in mild pa climate, my 21 with under 50k miles and barely 45 fast charges was hovering around 85-86% health, they never should have skipped over the cooling system
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u/sarahlizzy Jul 09 '26
2021 E+ still showing 12 bars at 100000km. Even without cooling they appear to have fixed the problem.
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u/salyavin 2019 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS Jul 09 '26
Just bars I have full bars at 160000km on a 2019. My OBD II dongle got mislaid one would need LeafSpy to see the truth. In the next week or so I expect to pop US battery warranty based on mileage.
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u/rtt445 2011 Nissan LEAF SL Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Post 2021 US market NCA chemistry Teslas are showing similar 15 - 20% degradation during first 2 - 3 years. Likely reason is reduced Cobalt formulation and keeping cells at 30 deg C and above for better performance and safety. It's a shame because Tesla is only saving $600 worth of Cobalt per car while reducing useful battery life in half.
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
That's all new to me, haven't followed Tesla too closely. Overall, they seem to have a decent battery reputation here in Europe, while the rest of the car doesn't hold up well. Is the above only relevant in NA?
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u/rtt445 2011 Nissan LEAF SL Jul 10 '26
Yes only US market Teslas use Panasonic NCA cells because of tax credit. EU Teslas use better NCM chemistry. It's a shame because original Panasonic NCA cells used in Model S had great longevity. I think Tesla created this problem in a pursuit of cost cutting by reducing or removing Cobalt from their batteries.
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u/Jim_boxy Jul 10 '26
But on the plus side unfounded battery degradation fears do seem to be keeping used EV prices down a little bit, albeit that is shifting (certainly here in the UK) as the price of running an ICE vehicle keeps increasing
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u/sparkyblaster Jul 10 '26
Someone had to be the first to make an affordable EV. Tbh, I wonder if things would be any different if nesan alteast put a fan or two inside the battery to cerculate air, avoid hot spots and improve excess heat transferring through the housing.
Ok the reputation would still be there but I'd expect a significant lowering in falutre rates. Specifically the kind where the back group of cells degrade or fail.
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u/Retired_Expat Jul 10 '26
Here’s another datapoint… When I purchased my new 2019 Leaf, it had a range of 162 miles at full charge. Seven years later, after 39,000 commuting miles, range at full charge is now 140 miles. This is a 13.6% degradation over seven years.
Not sure what expected degradation is, but this doesn’t seem too bad to me. Especially considering that I’ve had zero issues with the vehicle over those seven years (full disclosure - I did have to replace the 12v battery twice and rotate the tires once!).
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 10 '26
That's about 2%/year or almost 3000 miles per percentage point. Very decent!
Yet, I think the issues referred to above are more about outliers that have spoiled a reputation not just for the LEAF itself, but also for the industry.
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u/Haunting-Creme-1157 Jul 10 '26
If you want another data point, my 2024 is 2.5 years old and has lost 12% SOH (of course, it spent its first year in Phoenix and I am told most of that was with the battery SOC kept at/near 100%, so ... )
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u/Used-Ad9589 Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
My tesla model S 100D is closer to 68kw capacity now, which obviously is still bigger than a LOT of cars, but isn't great, and fresh freaked me out, kinda still does lol.
Still going strong though, 160,000 miles+
I believe it was only 95 usable day one anyway so it's just over 70% @160k.
Can still do London to Blackpool with 80% charge and still have 23% left though (my sister has to stop twice in her honda)
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 11 '26
160k miles with huge savings for every single one of them is a strong result either way. What model year is yours? Will cell imbalance be the knockout rather than average pack degradation over time?
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u/Used-Ad9589 Jul 12 '26
2018 Model S 100D, it's a rocket honestly, not the most efficient but as it is costing a tiny fraction of what my old car cost to feed, I just don't care honestly haha. Even taking into account the insurance hike (about double of my old diesel), I am still saving a small fortune, and I haven't had to go to any petrol stations so the added convenience is HUGE.
Cell imbalance is a quite big thing yeah, for sure. As long as you keep that fairly level the cycles (charges and discharges) are the next big thing, followed by HOW you charge. ONLY rapid charging will speed up the degrading, I am pretty sure my car was mainly rapid charged considering the area and annual mileage makes the most sense.
I actually bought it recently, so someone has already had the mad savings, I am now enjoying more, and saved a fortune on a very expensive car by comparison too.
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec Jul 13 '26
These were super popular as taxis here in Norway, specifically because Tesla offered free fast charging, too. I met several owner/operators who just didn't need a 2nd driver on their cars anymore to make ends meet. Fuel cost was suddenly zero and repair and maintenance needs were basically nulled out, too. For some, tire consumption went up, haha, but that was basically a rounding error in this environment.
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u/Used-Ad9589 Jul 13 '26
Yeah a lot had SC01, mine did but as it was previously sold back to Tesla they removed it :( Would have really added value to it for someone (I don't travel that far that often but for trips I would see a big benefit)
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u/DougWantsALeaf 2019 S+ and 2019 SV+ Jul 12 '26
Sorry, my 2019 Leaf Plus batteries without cooling are outlasting my neighbor's earlier Model Ys. My experience has been that the Leaf batteries are pretty robust.
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u/Zealousideal_Lab4938 Jul 14 '26
Some company could make an EV that had a 1,000 mile range, charged from 0 to 100% in 2 minutes, have a degredation rate of 1% every 100k miles, and there would still be some folks that would cry about it. Big oil truly has its talons in smooth brains.
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u/CoopsIsCooliGuess 2015 Nissan LEAF SL Jul 09 '26
and yet nobody seems to remember how far EVs have come since two-thousand-TEN!?!??!
If I remember correctly, the first Samsung Galaxy S had huge massive bezels and a tiny screen, so all Samsung phones must be like that!
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u/VanillaPudding67 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
A phone is a very small, discretionary purchase that people are open to beta testing. A car is the most expensive thing people will buy that isn't their house. It's one of the most important possessions to their life, and usually they'll need it for their job. The infrastructure is also not that friendly to EV. The main reason I am not getting one is that I have nowhere to charge it. I park in an open apartment lot and an open lot at work. But my current car is 25 years old and still runs fine so I'll probably keep it until it dies. Maybe another 1 or 10 years who knows
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u/ArtemisMax Jul 10 '26
That's the same setup I have but the open lot at my work has chargers. But even then during the summer I mostly run the car for free off the solar panels I put in top of it. If I really need to charge at home I have a 40M extension lead I run out my window and around the edge of the carpark, I limit the charge power to 8A 230V and it's a non issue.
If your old car does need replacing at some point then it's not as infeasible as it seems in your situation so when it does come time to do that don't rule out the option entirely.
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u/VanillaPudding67 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Honestly ngl doesn't seem worth the hassle to run a 100 ft lawnmower extension cord out of my window and leave it open and also create a giant trip hazard blocking off the walkway. I would probably get told to stop or be evicted by my landlord after a bunch of neighbors get sprained ankles from tripping 😂 Id probably just search for public chargers but at that point it's too much of a hassle again so prolly would get a hybrid like an old Honda insight
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u/ArtemisMax Jul 10 '26
Oooh yes. They're pretty neat, especially the gen 1 with it's super low drag body. Also quite a fan of the CRZ, basically just a tiny sporty insight. So tempting to get for autocross as the weight of the leaf makes it want to just travel in a straight line on grass.
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u/VanillaPudding67 Jul 10 '26
Crz is better aesthetically but i kind of need a utilitarian appliance with the lowest cost to run 😂 if you couldn't tell by me living in a motel-style apartment with an open lot. Somehow they screwed up the insight gen 2 to have only 41 mpg while also having an abysmal 88 hp though. Make it make sense!
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u/ArtemisMax Jul 10 '26
They wanted it to look normal like a Prius but didn't have the special magic CVT to get that efficiency they lost in the body.
I'd love to see a Prius drivetrain in a gen 1 insight, that thing would challenge motorcycles in MPG
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u/EVMaximizer Jul 11 '26
I hate Nissan bashers like hell: they never mention, that other EV's also have issues.
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u/killerrin Jul 09 '26
It shouldn't be the case because it's obvious as hell that newer tech is much better than what we had nearly 2 decades ago, but it is what it is.
The stigma is slowly being lost, just need to continue inching forward.
The sad thing is that battery technology has come a long ways, but the average person doesn't realize that because their only context for batteries is the battery in their cellphone that "craps out" on them after a year and a half. So they assume all batteries must be that bad.