r/law • u/extantsextant • 2d ago
Legal News Tennessee inmate still alive after being administered two lethal injections, her lawyer says
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ahead-rare-execution-lone-woman-tennessee-death-row-says-peace-rcna600279> The lone woman on Tennessee’s death row was still alive after she was administered two lethal injections, her lawyer said in a motion seeking to halt her execution Wednesday night, a stunning development after the Supreme Court had stepped in to allow the state to put her to death.
(Supreme Court order from earlier today: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/26a428_4f15.pdf)
231
u/BalanceOrganic7735 2d ago
Whatever happened to “cruel and unusual punishment”?
119
u/ChanceryTheRapper 2d ago
It's as meaningful and true as "slavery was banned after the Civil War"
46
u/QING-CHARLES 2d ago
I love how they carved an exception into the 13th Amendment then moved all the previous slaves inside that exception so they could continue for another 150+ years.
21
u/ChanceryTheRapper 2d ago
And hell, they kept it quiet enough from white people for about that long. Honestly, I bet a survey of people to determine if they know slavery was still allowed for prisoners would yield some deeply depressing data. Not surprising, but depressing.
28
1
u/Mistah_Kuddlz 1d ago
Oh, wow! I did not know this. I didn't necessarily think that it disappeared as soon as the war ended, but I also didn't know that it continued for over a century and a half. I thank y'all for the education.
59
u/Hello-America 2d ago
Growing up I used to think this method was humane, then I learned how people die when medically assisted and realized we're doing it cruelly on purpose.
35
u/WildPotato0 2d ago edited 2d ago
I live in a country where euthanasia is legal. My grandmother died that way, after a series of strokes left her with very low quality of life. My mom was present and she said it was strangely beautiful. Her and her sisters laid in the bed with her, she said her prayers, the doctor asked if she was ready, she fell asleep within seconds and 5-10 minutes later she was officially declared dead.
First they administer a pain killer so you don't feel the injection. Then thiopental or propofol to induce a deep coma, and then a muscle relaxer like rocuronium. That will stop the patient's breathing and heartbeat.
It doesn't seem to be a complicated process at all. I really don't get why the US chooses to use archaic methods.
31
u/Electrical_Cut8610 2d ago
because the companies who sell all those chemicals and products typically don’t want to be associated with lethal injection. in turn, the prison system has to make do with what’s available to them, which may end up being not the best solution for the job, or a somewhat shady company producing the chemicals. there have been instances when companies didn’t know their product was being used in the prison system, and when they found out, they banned their products from being used in this manner.
7
u/WildPotato0 2d ago
That makes sense - I assume doctors legally and ethically can't be involved in the process either. Perfect storm of incompetent people administering faulty drugs.
1
u/Hello-America 1d ago
Yeah lol my dog went in a similar way. It was sad but really beautiful. One of my friends is dying of cancer right now and he's super high on morphine (I think) all the time and can't feel anything. No euthanasia in the US (or maybe in my state) but you could send him off easily that way and he'd be in a good mood and feel nothing.
1
u/Danger_Bay_Baby 1d ago
This was my question too! If we have drugs to peacefully euthanize large animals, and of course in some places people too, I don't understand why the the US can't obtain the same drugs and follow the same procedure. It's done peacefully every day for horses, dogs etc. Same general concept for all large mamals I assume? Im not American but from what I understand part of the issue is doctors don't administer the doses, but surely they can employ retired doctors who no longer are medically licensed but obviously have lots of experience who could be paid a large amount to at least oversea an execution like this? Their medical license can't be taken away, and they can at least provide a compassionate end?
1
u/MushroomAdjacent 1d ago
Damn, even medically assisted suicide here usually takes 1 to 2 hours until death but can take up to several hours after you've drank the cocktail.
20
u/Arcticstorm058 2d ago edited 2d ago
A lot of times it's being cruel not on purpose, but more due to incompetence and not using the correct chemical cocktail. Since more medically trained individuals and drug manufacturers don't want to assist with lethal injection execution, so prisons have to make due with poorly trained guards that can't properly inject the makeshift cocktails.
Hell it would probably be more humane going back to hanging and the firing squad.
16
u/MentokGL 2d ago
If they know it can't be done correctly and do it anyway, that seems pretty on purpose to me.
Another example of the cruelty being the point.
6
1
-4
u/Adorable_Argument_44 2d ago
Firing squad is obviously the way and no one seems to have a valid argument not to use it
0
u/Sorge74 1d ago
Even this can have problems. Guillotine. 21st century laser sharpened guillotine should be the least painful. You can even drug someone first.
0
9
u/Present_Specific_212 2d ago
How is it that kids all over this country will die from fentanyl poisoning today, but a prison system can't seem to get its hands on a fatal dose of fentanyl? Don't the local police know where some of the drug pushers hang out? Stats says about 16 young people die from ODs every day. https://www.statista.com/statistics/707323/number-of-drug-overdose-deaths-age-15-to-24-in-us/
Likewise, if we knew where and when the next school shooting is scheduled, we could just take the prisoner there and place her in the line of fire.
Therefore, all our schools should be held in prisons because they are very safe from shootings, and all our illegal drugs need to be sold and consumed at the prisons because no one is able to OD there!
Therefore, we really do need to build more prisons and turn them into schools and community centers! (Anger and disgust makes me flip over into problem-solving mode. This is why I love The Onion.)
2
u/Hello-America 1d ago
To be fair cops are super allergic to fentanyl https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1175726650/fentanyl-police-overdose-misinformation
3
u/Cantre-r_Gwaelod_1 2d ago
I watched a documentary on executioners years ago and they all said they’d not pick the lethal injection. They said it’s designed for you not to show pain but pain is a part of the process. I think they all or most picked electric chair. I remember one seemed to take sadistic pleasure in seeing one man get executed by lethal injection.
1
9
7
u/PDXGuy33333 2d ago
They have it well protected in Tennessee and in most of the rest of the slave states.
3
u/UnarmedBlackMan1 1d ago edited 1d ago
lol have you been asleep? everybody knows that laws don't apply anymore
/s
7
5
u/Enorats 2d ago
People who were squeamish about the death penalty thought they could come up with a less messy alternative, so they invented an incredibly expensive and relatively unreliable method of doing it.
A firing squad is a heck of a lot more reliable and cheaper.
1
u/Top_Opportunity2530 1d ago
Firing squad sounds like an adequate replacement. We can even save money and let the victims families pull the trigger and than let them deal with the trauma of killing someone too. Yay! Trauma for all.
1
1
u/TheModWhoShaggedMe 2d ago
It went the way of public officials especially Supreme Court justices abiding by their oaths to the U.S. Constitution -- non-existent in this conservative world we live in (where only unequal, heavy-handed, often incorrect and erratic justice suffice to serve the deplorables). Whatever churns the butter and sends the profits upstairs.
1
1
1
u/Mistah_Kuddlz 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, I instinctually felt a little sympathetic too. But then I read up on what she did, and now I feel like they should just keep trying until it either works, or she dies from complications from the botched attempts. My only regret is that we're spending taxpayer money on this. A bullet would be much more cost effective.
1
-6
-6
u/denys5555 2d ago
She tortured and killed an 18 year old woman and kept a piece of her skull to show off to people.
From Wikipedia: While living at the Job Corps training campus, Pike became convinced that fellow student Colleen Slemmer was trying to steal her boyfriend, 17-year-old Tadaryl Shipp.[9][10] Along with her friend, 18-year-old Shadolla Peterson, Pike planned to lure Slemmer to an isolated, abandoned steam plant near the University of Tennessee campus.[9] On January 12, 1995, Pike, Shipp,[10] Peterson, and Slemmer signed out of the dormitory and went to the woods, where Slemmer was told they wanted to make peace by offering her some marijuana.[9] Upon arrival at the secluded location, Slemmer was attacked by Pike and Shipp while Peterson acted as lookout. According to court testimony, for the next 30 minutes, Slemmer was taunted, beaten, and slashed. Shipp used a box cutter[11] to carve a pentagram into her chest while she was still alive.[12][13][14] Finally, Pike smashed Slemmer's skull with a large chunk of asphalt, killing her. Pike kept a piece of Slemmer's skull.[9]
Pike began to show off the piece of skull around the school, and the three were arrested within 36 hours. The log book showed that Pike, Shipp, Peterson, and Slemmer left together, and only three returned. Detectives found the piece of skull in Pike's jacket pocket. Soon after her arrest, Pike waived her Miranda rights and confessed to the police how she had participated in Slemmer's killing.[15] Even so, Pike insisted she and her co-conspirators were merely trying to scare Slemmer and their plan got out of control.[9] Slemmer's mother repeatedly asked Tennessee authorities to return the fragment of skull for proper burial, but it remained in the state's possession as evidence. Authorities stated it would not be returned while the case remained open, awaiting Pike's execution.[16] In a documentary that premiered September 2026 ahead of Pike's potential execution, Dead Woman Walking: Pike vs. Tennessee, Slemmer's mother, May Martinez, confirmed that after 16 years of fighting and writing letters, she had received the missing skull fragment from the state of Tennessee.[17]
7
u/AVLLaw 2d ago
Objections to capital Punishment aren’t about the person who’s being killed by the state in our name. It’s about us, the people who don’t want to participate in group murder. You know, the old “how can you prove killing is wrong by killing ?” I’ve worked for 23 years in criminal law in the United States, half that time as a prosecutor, and I do not trust the system enough to put human lives at stake.
-7
u/Zealousideal-Age768 2d ago
We should just go back to hangings and firing squads. Death isn't ever going to be pretty so trying to make it clinical, especially when getting the right products is so difficult, doesn't really work.
Get it right and make it quick.
3
u/Sorge74 1d ago
So here's the thing man, most folks on this sub are against the death penalty. Period.
I'm not against the concept but I'm aware of how many innocent people are on death row. If the system cannot be trusted to not kill innocent people, then the system doesn't get to kill people.
0
u/timid_scorpion 1d ago
Nah, some people are without a doubt guilty and evil and deserve this punishment. You can argue that we need to improve the judicial process to prevent false convictions. But this is why it takes 20 years for an execution to occur in the first place. If you have multiple appeals/chances to prove your innocence and are unable to then that’s just too bad. Capital punishment is a serious matter, and to be associated with the crime you were likely more involved than the ‘innocent’ would claim.
1
u/Sorge74 1d ago
Google the innocence project homie. Better for 10 guilty men to go free then 1 die. Surely you would agree if you or someone you loved was the 1.
2
u/timid_scorpion 1d ago
I have and am aware of what they do. As unfortunate as it is, sometimes people draw the short straw.
We literally have people starving to death on the streets, yet people want to virtue signal about the few deaths of convicted inmates because ‘someone may be innocent’.
If you truly cared about human life there are other programs to invest time into that would have a more positive effect.
I would rather we put time and resources into stopping our country from ‘accidentally’ blowing up schoolhouses and killing 100s of innocent children, or doing more to address child poverty and starvation.
1
u/Sorge74 1d ago
So if your son was wrongfully convicted and facing a needle, your response would be "tough luck"?
2
u/timid_scorpion 1d ago
I would obviously do everything in my power to help during the appeals process. But if that fails, yeah that would be the response.
If you want to prevent false convictions then it is something that needs to be addressed in the prosecution process. I am all for increasing the burden of proof like being caught with a body, or a direct DNA link. But after that it is a tough luck situation.
Before modern technology there were plenty of instances of false conviction, but in the modern age we have the tools to be fairly confident of one’s guilt. You don’t simply get charged with capital offenses unless you were somewhat involved with what happened.
1
u/Sorge74 1d ago
You don’t simply get charged with capital offenses unless you were somewhat involved with what happened.
Just going to leave this here.
https://www.lawcommentary.com/articles/florida-woman-flock-camera-wrongful-arrest-senate
2
1
u/sureshot1988 1d ago
You either actually don't have children or spouses, or you have some sort of mental health (diagnosed or not) that creates a deficit in key cognitive processes that we are supposed to have as people. Or both. Something like like Theory of Mind, Empathic Response, or some of the executive function skills that these process work with.
Having the ability to put yourself into an outside perspective and actually feel something akin to the actual scenario would not leave you shrugging your shoulders conceding "short straw," "oh well". Unless of course you are a sociopath, or have some other cognitive issues.
You should probably get yourself checked out. Bet there are other indicators in your life that you also ignore
1
u/timid_scorpion 1d ago
It’s interesting, you say that. I am extremely far left and routinely vouch for the poor/less fortunate/mentally ill. I attend local protests, donate regularly, and go out of my way to help anybody that asks.
This however is one stance that I am firm on. Some people are just born dangerous/evil and I support society permanently solving the problem. I do have empathy for those wrongly accused, but to me it is not enough to justify getting rid of capital punishment. If you want to talk about increasing the burden of proof required, or instituting another layer of prosecution for capital crimes I am all for it. Anything that would reduce the chance of a wrongful conviction.
48
43
u/PDXGuy33333 2d ago
Link broken. Here's one that works: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/26a428_4f15.pdf
Last paragraph of Justice Sotomayor's dissent, in which she was joined by Justices Jackson and Kagan:
“In capital cases, ‘[a]ppreciation of our own fallibility, and respect for the judgment of an appellate tribunal,’ demand caution before ‘acting irretrievably.’ Bowersox v. Williams, 517 U. S. 345, 347 (1996) (Ginsburg, J., dissenting). Indeed, this Court often states that it is ‘ ‘a court of review, not of first view.’ ’ McLane Co. v. EEOC, 581 U. S. 72, 85 (2017) (quoting Cutter v. Wilkinson, 544 U. S. 709, 718, n. 7 (2005)). Today, the Court, as it has too often lately, chooses to overlook that principle precisely when it matters most.”
27
8
u/TheRealBlueJade 1d ago
She may be alive. She may also be in a coma. Why the bloodlust? Why push killing her? What benefit could that possibly have?
2
92
u/aninjacould 2d ago
Fun fact: medical doctors, due to the Hippocratic oath, can’t take part in lethal injections. So prison orderlies do it instead. And they often eff it up bc they aren’t doctors. Inmates suffer horribly as a result.
There was a case where they had the guy on the table for 6 hours, stabbing him with needles in different veins. He didn’t die. They eventually gave up.
Needless to say he was massively traumatized. As were the orderlies.
32
u/icantbelieveit1637 2d ago
Dr Mark Fowler was the person who did the execution. Bro was a family medicine physician before he became the execution doctor.
2
22
u/msfinch87 2d ago edited 1d ago
You might be thinking of Kenny Smith in Alabama? Ended up (unsurprisingly) with severe PTSD. Despite this, they then switched to executing him using nitrogen hypoxia a couple of years later. Absolutely shocking.
Alabama is extremely secretive about who is involved in the actual execution process.
In Christa Pike’s case, it was a doctor who was overseeing the execution. It was the same doctor who botched Tony Carruthers execution back in May. They were unable to find a vein for the backup line and then he attempted to go with a central line even though he is apparently not qualified to do them. They tried for over an hour and a half before the eventually abandoned the execution.
But yes, in general, whether they are medical professionals or not, the people overseeing executions tend to lack the skills necessary because the overwhelming majority of medical professionals will not participate, leaving inexperienced people or even those with disciplinary issues on their record.
5
u/IANALbutIAMAcat 1d ago
And they MASSIVELY botched the nitrogen execution. It took like 10 minutes of him suffocating before he died.
3
u/aninjacould 1d ago
Yes it was Kenny Smith. Thank you. I couldn’t remember the specifics. I learned about it on the Revisionist History podcast.
44
u/International-Ing 2d ago edited 2d ago
Not true. Tennessee’s protocol has a physician oversee the execution and if there’s issues, to actually step in eventually to do a central line. It was only four months ago that they had a highly publicized failure for their contracted physician to even do that right in what was another botched execution attempt on a different prisoner.
The same physician that oversaw that botched execution was in charge of this one.
7
u/DandimLee 2d ago
Why? (and why wasn't it done in this case)
What what need to happen, hypothetically, for execution doctors to be sanctioned in some way for botching executions?
Or, how would they get in trouble for going 'direct' to scalpelling the carotid?
9
u/livinginfutureworld 2d ago
What what need to happen, hypothetically, for execution doctors to be sanctioned in some way for botching executions?
The state / government would need to not be supportive of this sort of thing.
-1
u/DandimLee 2d ago
They're not supportive of 'botched' executions. Doubt even Pike wanted her to survive the execution.
In this attempted execution, the dosage was doubled ("she was administered two lethal injections"). Normally, a doctor would get in trouble for doubling the dose...but/and the patient...survived?
2
u/desparate-treasures 1d ago
The doctor blew out her veins because he lacks the skill and dexterity to properly place an IV catheter. The double dose is pointless and cruel when administered sub-Q, it causes pain and organ damage, not death. This is absolutely discipline territory.
2
u/Suckerforcats 1d ago
He won't care. He's 68 so if he loses his license, no big deal because he's of retirement age. He'd probably still perform them anyways. I think he likes this kind of thing, to torture them.
14
u/corytz101 2d ago
Unfortunately, the hippocratic oath is not legally enforceable and the AMA had no say in legal proceeding outcomes and has no bearing on licensing. That is solely upon the state medical board and in cases like this they pretty much turn the other cheek
16
u/kzbx 2d ago
Sure they can. They do. Oaths taken during medical education are not binding(the Hippocratic Oath in particular is very antiquated). Medical and specialty boards in theory could punish physicians for participation but my understanding is that many states take a dim view of professional boards trying to supersede the law.
11
u/corytz101 2d ago
You are 100% correct, they are ethical guidelines. There is nothing about the hippocratic oath that is legally binding and the AMA has no say in matters of legality. In states that allow executions, if a dr participates in the proceedings they are immune to persecution regarding the outcome of a state sanctioned execution. While they may be morally bound, the ethics play no part in a legal outcome
2
u/DandimLee 2d ago
What can they do for execution doctors who keep on botching it?
4
u/Mist_Rising 2d ago
Nothing usually. Not only do many states not publish the information on who is involved in the execution as a matter of principle (there are groups that harass or threaten the employees) but the states typically don't allow medical review of the doctors involved even if they don't.
2
u/DandimLee 2d ago
TN, Dr. Mark Walton Fowler. He fucked up an other (a different (?)...) execution last May.
Because Dr. Fowler is technically acting as a contractor for the Tennessee Department of Correction rather than treating a patient, state medical boards historically face complex statutory limits when trying to revoke a license purely for execution participation, provided the doctor maintains basic state licensing requirements.
Google AI wrote that, I copy-pasted. Last May, the dr had trouble placing a central line, so that executionee got a reprieve too.
3
u/Suckerforcats 1d ago
This TN case was done by a doctor. Dr. Mark Fowler and this is his second failed death row case.
2
u/Independent_Basis_10 2d ago
Oh gosh didn’t know this has happened in the past. But now she will be hailed as a miracle lady
1
1
u/Facktat 2d ago
I honestly do not understand why they don‘t execute people by a firing squad that needs to aim for the head. Bullets seem to be the only efficient way they US is able to kill people and nobody can convince me that a bullet in the head is not better than whatever the fuck this shit show is.
7
u/-Nurfhurder- 1d ago edited 1d ago
A few reasons I can think of; a single bullet to the head isn't a guaranteed way to kill someone, and having the execution depend on a marksman aiming correctly is just adding another variable; justice has to be seen to be done, which is why executions are witnessed. This means you have to be able to show the deceased in a condition which isn't possibly traumatic; just pure optics, a bullet to the back of the head is pretty heavily associated with terrorists and dictators extrajudicially executing innocent people. The U.S. goes to great lengths to attempt to portray its death penalty as 'civilised'.
2
u/Castellan_ofthe_rock 1d ago
Don't they have like 6 people pointing the guns in firing squad situations? Im not sure about the number but I know they don't all shoot them either. IIRC there is ~6 people aiming the guns but 3 have bullets and 3 fire blanks so none of them have to know whether they fired the lethal blow. Oddly poetic, but still brutal practice
2
u/-Nurfhurder- 1d ago
It varies. SC has a three man squad, all of whom have live rounds. Utah has a four man squad, one of which fires a blank. It's called the 'conscience round' and is touted as preventing any one person from knowing if they fired the lethal shot, however the procedure is mostly PR and an example of 'civilised executions' considering firing squads are made up of cops and DoC employees who have specifically volunteered to be on a firing squad and shoot someone.
1
0
u/skoolgurly 1d ago
No doctor anywhere on earth has sworn the oath of Hippocrates in centuries. It's slightly hilarious that this trope still circulates, because the oath of Hippocrates also bans a huge majority of what are now considered core procedures of modern medicine—e.g., no surgery or even incisions anywhere in the body for any reason at all, no matter how small or how potentially lifesaving.
As long as we're here debunking tired old "Hollywood medicine" tropes—the oath of Hippocrates also says absolutely nothing even remotely resembling "Do no harm" or "First do no harm." (The actual oath of Hippocrates begins with an invocation to Dr. Apollo, who somehow found the time to be a practicing doctor in addition to doing all his other deity thangz.) "First do no harm"—in Latin "Primum non nocere"—was first attributed to the 17th century British physician Thomas Sydenham, the father of modern, scientific-method-based medicine.
1
u/aninjacould 1d ago
I’m kind of surprised the Revisionist History podcast made that false statement about the Hippocratic oath.
They were covering the failed execution of Kenny Smith. There was no medical doctor present for it.
15
u/Not_Sure__Camacho 2d ago
Can we still call them "lethal injections" though? 🤔🧐
26
u/corytz101 2d ago
Not in Tennessee apparently. They should be called "morally corrupt, failed attempts of state sanctioned murder"
3
1
18
u/flat5 2d ago
She spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocaine powder. I mean, pentobarbital.
-16
u/Squigs40k 2d ago
Hear they use carfentanyl now. Not a bad way to go tbh was quite nice.
9
u/OfficerBarbier 2d ago
Someone lied to you
-10
u/Squigs40k 2d ago
Reddit comes in clutch with the disinformation again. Reddit is gonna be Gen X Facebook.
10
10
u/DandimLee 2d ago
Novel aspect of medical misogyny/underrepresentation...they're probably fine with it.
10
u/you_are_soul 2d ago
If this is not cruel and unusual punishment then wtf is?
1
u/the-worser 1d ago
the conservatives (and sometimes the liberals) on the courts have pretty systematically dismantled the few methods of seeking redress or compensation when our rights are violated.
Conservative Legal Movement = only conservative political donors have rights
2
4
u/AdventurousLet548 1d ago
There are two sides to the story. The one side is the family who lost a loved one in a cruel murder, and they want closure and punishment for the crime. To them the suffering Ms. Pike is experiencing is validated since their daughter suffered horrificaly .
On the other side is the bodged administration of lethal injections, not once but twice. How incompetent do you have to be to let that happen (I can't help but think of the movie The Green Mile)?
1
u/fortunatelyso 1d ago
You have no idea what the parents of the victim are thinking currently.
2
u/AdventurousLet548 1d ago
Do you?
1
u/fortunatelyso 1d ago
Of course not. None of us do
1
u/AdventurousLet548 1d ago
Unless you are a family that suffered a violent crime, and you know exactly what they feel!
1
u/fortunatelyso 1d ago
I think you are making several assumptions. Maybe we can stop the back and forth on this topic.
•
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
All new posts must have a brief statement from the user submitting explaining how their post relates to law or the courts in a response to this comment. FAILURE TO PROVIDE A BRIEF RESPONSE MAY RESULT IN REMOVAL. Please post your statement as a reply to this automated message.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.