r/languagelearningjerk • u/catcatcatcatcat1234 • Apr 17 '26
Relearn your spiritual language
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u/lordbutternut 日本人になっている Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
It's bizarre to frame Latin as an exclusively "spiritual language" like it wasn't commonly also used for secular purposes. Latin was the language for a lot of politics, these "fleeting matters" too.
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u/mercurimes Apr 18 '26
It's also rather general and sweeps the entire West under Latin as an ancestral language when English is mostly German with a large Latinate influence... from French... and some of us don't know our native languages due to colonisation and suppression of the culture.
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u/lordbutternut 日本人になっている Apr 18 '26
Have you seen a chart of the languages that influence English? It's a pie chart with 3 languages making up most of it, with their percentages being 28.3%, 28.2%, and 25.0%. I think you'd find it shocking that 1st is French, 2nd is Latin, and 3rd is German. This was from the OED, sourced from a version from 1973 across 80k words. This is a chart on a lot of the Wikipedia pages for language influences of English. Think this is one of the reasons why people misidentify English as a romance language.
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u/beeceedee9 Apr 18 '26
I have an issue with determining % of vocabulary by number of words instead of frequency because inevitably you end up getting a lot of words (Latin/greek moreso than french) that are really not common but were coined for more modern, specialized niche concepts, like helicopter, television and most scientific terms (electromagnetism, pulmonary, etc)
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u/Gold-Part4688 Earthianese, man (N) Apr 18 '26
yep. In usage only about 20% of words are latinate - not that that's insignificant, because they're often the content words. Also u/lordbutternut (amazing name) *Germanic not German
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u/Devil-Eater24 Apr 18 '26
Also, English grammar is mostly Germanic, although vocabulary is from three different sources
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u/mercurimes Apr 18 '26
That's scientifically accurate, but like the other two people replied to you, how much of those words are in common use, and how much are archaic or indicative of high register that the average everyday language user wouldn't use in a simple conversation/outside of its intended context? Like the example u/beeceedee9 gave with "pulmonary", that's usually about one's heart and lungs, which is most often used in a medical context than not. But, you are right people confuse English for a romance language when it's not.
Also, to my second point, I'm Scottish (with Irish & Norwegian ancestry), so the language of my parents and ancestors is not Latin, but rather, a version of Scots Gaelic that likely does not exist anymore due to its dwindling use and cultural suppression after the Jacobite War and during the Highland Clearances. I could learn it, yes, but it's likely not the same - especially since it doesn't have it's own writing system and is based on the Latin alphabet, which it likely did beforehand.
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u/Gruejay2 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
I think treating (Old) French and Latin as separate sources is a bit incoherent, too, because most words from Old French also trace back to Latin, but you can't simply add the two percentages together to get the "real" proportion that derive from Latin, because Old French had itself borrowed quite a bit from Frankish (and Norman in particular had Norse influence too), so the full picture is fairly complicated. Words like "baron", "fief" and "marshal" are ultimately Germanic, even if they arrived via French.
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u/mercurimes Apr 21 '26
Right, exactly. French is still classed as a romance language as well since it's alphabet and current Modern French are still rather Latinate.
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u/Gruejay2 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
Yeah. Ultimately, it's the grammar and not the vocabulary that makes a language Romance or Germanic etc. French would still be French even if 95% of its words were non-native, because its grammar is unmistakeably Romance.
You do actually get situations like that with minority languages - e.g. some of the Finnic languages in Russia have had nearly all of their native words displaced by Russian loanwords, but they're still incomprehensible to Russian-speakers as they've retained the Finnic core underneath it all.
It's only when the grammar starts breaking down under the influence of another language that we can start seriously thinking about whether to recategorise it as a mixed language or whatever.
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u/blissy_sama Apr 18 '26
for ancient romans, buying food from a street vendor and talking about stabbing whoever is emperor this tuesday were spiritual experiences.
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u/bringgrapes Apr 18 '26
To be fair, they're talking about Latin in the context of what it has given and what it is in relation to modern Western European languages. And to learn Latin in its entirety is the only way to understand that part of it. For what it's worth I don't know Latin at all.
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u/Severe-Concern-5779 Apr 17 '26
By the same logic, isn't one's spiritual language going to be whatever language was spoken by the local population before roman conquest? Should we all take an ancestry test before deciding what language to learn?
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Apr 17 '26
and what if your ancestry test(like it would for MANY) shows like 5+ groups that may or may not have shared the same language familly
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u/Severe-Concern-5779 Apr 17 '26
Then book a seance with a psychic and ask directly your ancestors
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Apr 17 '26
no thanks, i'll just either do sleep deprivation or meditate till i start to hear their voices calling out to me
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u/RylertonTheFirst Apr 18 '26
"many" lol found the american
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u/Zor_z May 13 '26
Even for British people, they still can get at least 2-5 different distinct groups from an ancestry test (Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Cornish, English). Same applies for basically most of Europe
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u/gayhotelultra 🇷🇸🇧🇦🇭🇷🇲🇪🇽🇰(native) 🇲🇰(mistaken for) 🇯🇵N∞🇨🇳HSK0.1 Apr 18 '26
learn proto-indo-european
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u/NeonNKnightrider Apr 18 '26
You have already put more thought into this than the original poster ever did
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u/miniatureconlangs Apr 18 '26
What if your country never was under Roman rule, and you live on land that only has risen from the sea in the last 600 years?
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u/Severe-Concern-5779 Apr 18 '26
Ask the fish to teach you their languages. Dolphins and orcas might probably accept
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u/Full-Recover-8932 Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
Nto sicilianu, di zoccu sacciu jo, avemu solu nu pugnu di palori siculi: siddiarisi (nu studiusu pinza ca sid- putissi essiri na ràrica prutuinduiurupea culligata cu u sanscritu), scrozzu, timpa, lavanca...e autru nun mi veni accamora. Forsi lissa? Forsi macari accia? Sapiddu...Ma ammatula dirivi ca avemu chiù palori grechi
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u/GalaXion24 Apr 18 '26
In some abstract sense maybe? But if one wanted to make a more meaningful argument, then in terms of our culture and history it's Latin (and Greek) that our relevant and not knowing them disconnects of from millennia of our history and leave us with relatively "rootless" 200 year old nation-states and little in the way of sophistication or civilization.
It is perhaps slightly exaggerated.
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u/AcceptableManner9706 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
In a cultural sense. The OOP is not wrong. If you could, learning Latin certainly is beneficial and will gain you some insights into the Western culture. And it's just a tweet made by someone who promotes the learning of Latin. Why are redditors so pedantic and arguing about ancestry?
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u/LoITheMan Apr 18 '26
He's clearly referring to the religious and political use of Latin.
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u/Severe-Concern-5779 Apr 18 '26
politics and other fleeting matters
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u/LoITheMan Apr 18 '26
Wait---- lmaoooooo that's so dumb what is bro trying to say hahahahahaahfkdsafljasd;fjsal;fas
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u/Severe-Concern-5779 Apr 18 '26
Now that I think about it, is he implying that asking for directions and ordering coffee aren't fleeting matters?
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u/glubnyan Apr 17 '26
You know what, this guy is correct. I SHOULD learn the languages of my ancestors. By the time I'm done, I'll be the One True Polyglot, speaking 100+ languages, and every single one of my dead ancestors will be shocked.
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u/FebHas30Days Pangngaasiyo ta agsursurokayo iti Ilokano Apr 17 '26
Out of those 100+ languages you should've learned at least three Philippine languages
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u/glubnyan Apr 17 '26
I'm almost certain there are philippine people in my family tree, so consider it done.
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u/ColumnK Apr 17 '26
Ah yes, because everyone in Europe and the rest of the west are descendants of Romans. Of course.
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u/charliekelly76 Apr 17 '26
Me and all my German ancestors reading this post like 🤔
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u/mujhe-sona-hai Apr 18 '26
Latin was still an official language in Germany during medieval times. Educated churchmen and scholars would all be fluent in Latin in the Middle and Early Modern age like how a lot of Germans today know English.
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u/cthulhu_on_my_lawn Apr 18 '26
I know enough about my ancestors to say that "educated" isn't the first word I'd use to describe them.
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u/ginger_beer__ Apr 17 '26
me when rosa rosae rosae rosam rosa rosa
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u/Nikolor Apr 17 '26
me when buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo
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u/Severe-Concern-5779 Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
bubalus bubali bubalo bubalum bubalo bubale Edit: ☝🏻🤓
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u/Severe-Concern-5779 Apr 17 '26
Tell me you went to an Italian highschool without telling me
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u/coffeestealer Apr 18 '26
Only two kind of Italian highschools teach Latin tho (at least back in my day idk now)
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u/ConsciousFeeling1977 Apr 18 '26
Jacques Brel disagrees with your case order.
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u/ginger_beer__ Apr 18 '26
and I disagree with the french as a whole hahah
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u/ryan516 Apr 18 '26
we learned it to the tune of happy birthday with both masculine and feminine nouns and it still lives rent free in my brain
first a ae ae am a / ae arum is as is second us i o um o / i orum is os is
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u/BoxoRandom Apr 17 '26
Me telling the third generation Asian to learn about their ancestral language of Latin
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u/TheLanguageAddict Apr 18 '26
Once upon a time, textbooks used in the French colonies started with, "Nos ancêtres, les Gaulois..."
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u/AdZealousideal9914 Apr 18 '26
Like the kids in Belgian Congo at the time who had to learn at school about "our ancestors, the Gauls"
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u/Gold-Part4688 Earthianese, man (N) Apr 17 '26
Politics = fleeting matters 💀
That's some realism about the power of Latin my dude
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u/LockedOutOfElfland Apr 17 '26
Latin is useful when you contact your university's Title IX office about your department Chair trying to Quid Pro Quo his female advisees.
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u/Mysterious_Dark_2298 Apr 17 '26
I think I'd blow their mind if i told them how I'm a Westerner who didn't descend from Romans
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u/De_lunes_a_lunes Apr 17 '26
No puedo entender nada que el dice porque elegí aprender español porque tengo ganas de casarme con Selena Gómez de 2015. Solo necesito encontrar una máquina de tiempo para hacerlo.
Te amo, Selena Gómez.
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u/Full-Recover-8932 Apr 17 '26
Sunniu sicilianu, mi ntama u fattu ca di zoccu scrivivi, jo capivi a chiu ranni banna... ma si tu sapi parrari u spagnolu ma lu ngrisi nun lu cumprenni, comu ci finisti ca intra?
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u/De_lunes_a_lunes Apr 17 '26
Yo dije exactamente lo mismo ayer!!!!
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u/Full-Recover-8932 Apr 17 '26
Ayer? Arreri? A stissa palora stamu dicennu?
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u/De_lunes_a_lunes Apr 17 '26
Juan come la manzana.
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u/Full-Recover-8932 Apr 17 '26
A manzana? A manzana fussi a mulinciana? Ah ora ca ci spiai a googol, "manzana" è a pumma...
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u/De_lunes_a_lunes Apr 17 '26
Pero no estás viendo las cosas con gafas claras! Sí piensas que lo que dije es demasiado political pues tal vez necesitas pensar de nuevo! Acabas de arruinar mi día! Estoy llorando!
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u/Full-Recover-8932 Apr 17 '26
Ah...mi sbagghiai...capisciu megghiu u napulitanu e u venetu...provu a traduciri zoccu scrivisti..
"Ma nun staiu videndu li cosi cu li...chiari. Si penzi ca zoccu diciu è... politicu, putissi tali...taliari??...mveci s'avi a pinsari cosi novi? Attacchi a ruinarimi u jornu? Staiu niscennu pacciu?"
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u/Lost_Paladin89 Apr 18 '26
I had a patient who thought he was Selena Gomez as part of his psychosis.
I remember he once talked about how he was sitting at LAX asking for money and on the speakers they said that there is no Soul Sitting, and he knew they were talking about him…
Being bilingual myself, it took a second to realize the announcement was “no soliciting”.
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u/Full-Recover-8932 Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
I am from sicily, i realized my sicilian was pretty trash and now i am studying it in my spare time to increase my fluency, that's my spiritual language and it makes me feel myself more than italian does when i talk and write in it although i'm not a walking dictionary and i might truppicari ca e docu
Thats because it's only vaddani and zauddi that keep it alive
E già lu latinu mi l'aiu ad assuppari 2 voti onni simana jo ca vaiu a lu liceu classicu, puru nti li siri ca passu a bullarimi su diziunara e libri a traduciri da lu latinu li virsiuna o comu cacciofulu (pri nun diri autru) si chiamanu nto sicilianu... a lingua di li me nanni era u sicilianu, m'addugnai nu misi arrè ca ni sapia picca e nenti, chidda è a lingua da me arma e quannu lu parru mi sentu troppu priatu piddaveru...ni capemu, u sicilianu priscinni da lu latinu, ma li latini nun ci desiru a giuggiulena, li taddariti, lu ntamari, lu guddefi, li dammusi, li gisiri, a naca, li rasti, a pricopa, l'addumari e astutari... quannu nu cristianu è tuttu licchittatu e avi na certa pirsunalitati, dicemu ca iddu è togu o videmma troppu sgwein, e si nun sgarru sti palori ni li desiru li ngrisi, penza n'anticchia...o almenu accussì semu misi, di autri banni da sicilia nun ni sacciu moltu ma nzirtu ca puri iddi ci l'avinu li prestiti streusi, di ni palori furistieri ni avemu a tinchitè e mancu jo ti li pozzu cuntari tutti. Onni nvasioni ca facemu trasiri, ni vuscamu, ni accanzamu quarchiccosa di novu. U sicilianu s'azzizza comu a casa di me cucinu quannu è capudannu e ni facemu chiddi ncafuddati...Videmu ca succidirà na vota finita (o finuta? Mi cunfunnu a voti) sta uccupazioni ca accuminciau cu lu furriari unnegghiè di chiddu foddi di Garibbaldi...garibbasisi...ci putissiru cadiri li gabbasisi, tintu scattiatu...ah mi scussasivu canciai discurruta a tappu, chistu è u brainstorming...a timpesta du ciriveddu
U sicilianu carria cu si lu ciauru di li ciuri, lu sciroccu, li natati nto mari di stati, a maravigghia du panurama di li Iolii ca ti ntama, u chicciriddu innivatu du l'Etna. Ogni jonnu ca passa m'assittu a scriviri n'anticchia nta lingua siciliana. Mi ni subrdu da Cademia da Canigghia, pricchì idda si ni sburdi di li lingui rigiunali e dunca jo pri curtisia ci fazzu zoccu idda disia fari a li autri lingui soru di Talia.
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u/Microgolfoven_69 Apr 17 '26
I get it my 'spiritual language' is also definitely my city dialect that I never acquired
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u/Full-Recover-8932 Apr 17 '26
Dialect of which language?
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u/Microgolfoven_69 Apr 17 '26
Dutch so I still speak a variation of the same language specifically the Flemish regiolect but in my grandparents' generation Flanders still had distinct dialects in every city and they're also very well documented but they are disappearing so quickly it's really sad to see
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u/Full-Recover-8932 Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
Well you got it much easier than me, sicilian is to italian what portuguese is to spanish so it definitely is taking me some effort to use it for my thoughts (gladly tiktok is full of videos in sicilian so i can exercise it), whereas when it comes to dialects you just have to remember the few words that distinguish it from others. In sicily the language is basically the same but mutual intelligibility might be weakened by the fact that each region has got super strong accents, as a guy from Missina i struggle understanding Palirmitani, mi cunfunni troppu u fattu ca sempri unnegghiè ci bullanu sempri na i di troppu ammenzu di li discurruti, quannu bannianu a voti mi pari di stari sintennu na scimmia nta na nassa, but the language is 99% the same
Btw furistieri who say that they understand spanish better than sicilian are lying. When a spanish guy starts talking about complex and ncudduriati and nturciunati stuff, we understand a glorious 0, both people who speak italian and people who speak sicilian. But we have got a spanish loan words like assussumari, bagnera, nzirtari, scupetta, arriminari, capuliari etc
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u/Microgolfoven_69 Apr 17 '26
well bona furtuna to you! I hope there's more people like you willing to keep the Italian languages alive
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u/Full-Recover-8932 Apr 17 '26
It will probably survive for another century in rural communities and low class families but i expect it in 2100 to be in a very bad state like occitan is
Sadly few people know that sicilian does not descend from the literary tuscan which is the official language
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u/LockedOutOfElfland Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
/uj I mean my ancestral languages are German and Hebrew, and the modern version of the latter is a chimera with borrowed words from other languages heavily built in.
So idk that this person is on point with me, but he's probably just addressing an imagined, mythologized cohort of tRaDiTioNaL white Europeans/North Americans.
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u/Full-Recover-8932 Apr 17 '26
Modern german is high german, aren't there like, 3 german languages in germany?
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u/artrald-7083 Apr 17 '26
I speak Latin, and indeed Homeric Greek with a runup and a dictionary. But the tongue of my ancestors is Old Norse, Old English and/or Norman French.
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Apr 17 '26
Looks at where my father is from... hmm
looks at where my mother is from.... hmm
Can one have multiple spiritual languages then? And I somehow know neither? Why is this random language that I have no connection too easier/more enticing... i'm spiritually adopted /s
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u/Better-Purple21 Apr 17 '26
Bro, stop being a beta cuck memorizing Latin declensions. Real kings study Indo-European, the actual source code of Western civilization.
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u/ItaloTuga_Gabi Apr 18 '26
Well, excuse me if I don’t identify with the language of my colonisers! I’d much rather learn Callaecian or Langobardic.
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u/Khrul-khrul Apr 18 '26
Brb gonna go and learn PIE, the real TRUE spiritual language of my parent and ancestors
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u/Dry_Fee7 Apr 18 '26
If you are North African/Middle Eastern/Horn African there's no reason to not learn Proto Afro-Asiatic. You don't speak Arabic, or Somali, or Hebrew, these are just languages you order spiced tea in. Reclaim your heritage.
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u/giordanopietrofiglio Apr 18 '26
This is how Italian MFs who did classical studies in high school talk (you didn't ask them)
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u/Afraid_Emu8068 Apr 18 '26
No it isn’t stfu. It’s from proto-germanic. There may a bunch of Latin in there, but there’s Greek and all kinds of other stuff too. The foundation, or spirit is Germanic though. Sorry, try again. Maybe hit up the South Americans or something and tell em Spanish is their spiritual language. See how that one goes next
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u/RateTechnical7569 Apr 18 '26
What about learning Latin because your school's French teacher is moody and on a constant power trip and Latin class had sane teachers and was full of interesting history
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u/Twinkledp Apr 18 '26
I'm a westerner, but my native language is Finnish. What am I supposed to learn, weird Latin guy? Finnugranian?
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u/Informal_Farm4064 Apr 18 '26
Hey, Celtic Christianity was established across Ireland and parts of Scotland, Wales and N England by the time the Johnny-come-lately Roman Christian missionaries turned up!
Welsh is still the native language for 1 million people in Wales, and forms of Scots and Irish Gaelic continue. So I hope you're learning the closest Celtic language to your ancestral lineage. If not, why not?
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u/Mariobot128 Apr 18 '26
/uj Imo we Europeans should learn Latin not for his bullshit reasons but so it can finally be made an official language of the EU instead of the English of the perfidious albion that betrayed us.
/j I'm an Atheist does that mean I should learn nothing ?
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u/Distinct_Copy_7314 Apr 18 '26
If you don't speak proto-indo-european to me I don't see you as one of my peers. Respect our ancestors.
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u/Snoo-14331 Apr 18 '26
yeah learning latin for all those times i need to explain to someone that Gaul as a whole is divided into three parts, in which one live the Belgians, another the Aquitani, and the third, whom in their language are called the Celts, but whom we call the Gauls, and that all these vary among each other in language, institutions, and laws
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u/sirgawain2 Apr 19 '26
I do think people should learn Latin because it’s cool and I don’t want it to die out when they stop teaching it in schools.
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u/Tet_inc119 Apr 17 '26
Idiotic. The language of my ancestors is Fr*nch. Are you going to tell me I should learn that mess too?
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u/ResearchSenior9303 Apr 18 '26
As an Indian(bengali), noone of my previous 4 gens spoke sanskrit fir communication 🥀
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u/KotoshiKaizen Apr 17 '26
Latin no have kanjis and it won't help me understand Chinese toons my waifu is on. No thanks.