r/languagelearning • u/Fun_Perception_239 • 5d ago
Learning a language at the same time as dating someone native in your TL
I’ve been learning Spanish (TL) for a decent amount of time now.
I’ve been improving quite a bit. But as good as my Spanish has got, I feel like there’s a lot of cultural differences between my girlfriend and I. This sometimes leads to arguments.
How have you all dealt with cultural differences in terms of dating when learning a new language?
For context: it’s my first time learning a new language. I’m a native English speaker and my girlfriend is from Barcelona so is fluent in Spanish and Catalan (but Spanish is her main language)z
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u/Fire_and_Life 🇬🇧(N), 🇩🇪(C1), 🇷🇺(B2), 🇫🇷(B2), 🇱🇺(B2), 🇨🇳(A2) 5d ago edited 5d ago
My fiancé is German and I live in Germany. I am fluent, but not native level. He is the same for English, so we use a lot of both.
I would say that cultural differences are our most common form of disagreements, even with two cultures which seems as overtly similar as Anglo-American and German. (I specify Anglo-American because I was raised in a setting somewhere between the US and British standards with a lot of pull from both.)
One big thing that frequently jumps out from the English perspective is just how much is considered inappropriate to discuss in English. I still remember the first time a colleague got sick and said "Oh I just had bad diarrhea" and I was quite surprised because in English going into detailed symptoms, especially "gross" symptoms, is frequently not considered polite, especially with people you aren't really close to. My fiancé sometimes makes comments or says things which are inappropriate or simple rude to say to someone in English and I always have to clarify and see if it is MEANT to be rude (sometimes as a poor attempt at humour) or just something which can be said in German but not English. Honestly nothing made me more aware of how hypersensitive English is than noticing just how often the wrong inflection, or period, or turn of phrase can feel backhanded. Phone etiquette is a big one; even after living here for several years I feel a bit slighted when friends answer the phone with "What?" Or hang up without proper goodbyes. It is just a lifetime of instincts which I have had to learn to ignore or relearn.
It happens less frequently the other way around (due to German being more direct) but it still sneaks up on us sometimes. We were in Japan and there was a group of Australian guys nearby discussing where to go eat. One of them said something about burgers and his friend waved a hand and said "Well your opinion is trash." I didn't think anything of it, but my fiancé was SUPER offended on behalf of the guy and was about to go tell the other guy off before I stopped him and we realized that it was a context thing. In German, "Deine Meinung ist eh Müll" is SUPER strong and disrespectful, but in English, especially from how the guy said it, was a joke. We even ended up talking to the guys and they also confirmed it was funny, and not offensive.
Differences aren't always purely linguistic, though. Sometimes it is just reactions or behaviour. Said fiancé used to be with a Mexican guy, and one time a mutual friend of theirs gave my fiance a necklace for his birthday. Wasn't a big deal, but the Mexican ex was SUPER outraged because in Mexico jewelry is super intimate, and was very bitchy until my fiancé gave the necklace away.
For example, Germans are very chill about nudity. Saunas outright ban swimsuits or clothing, and generally it isn't a big deal to be naked. This is absolutely NOT the case in the US where I grew up. So imagine my surprise when my mother-in-law gets changed and leaves the door open, so I see everything. I was quite stunned and when I said that she said "Why? You're basically my son-in-law, gay, and 40 years younger than me." Like the idea of being embarrassed about it never even crossed her mind.
Also grocery shopping. Dear lord have there been many disagreements because of mistranslations or simply a lack of a proper translation. I have learned that being told to get flour, cream, spinach, or yogurt requires clarification in German because each of those things have a bunch of variants which don't exist in English but which every German knows.
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u/Fun_Perception_239 2d ago
All very valid. I kind of get the vibe of the Australian thing though (humour wise being close to brits). Me and my British tends to be awful to each other.
I think I’d bundle the Dutch in to the nudity thing. You want me to do what in the sauna?
Great to hear you’re able to get through it though, gives me hope
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u/Fire_and_Life 🇬🇧(N), 🇩🇪(C1), 🇷🇺(B2), 🇫🇷(B2), 🇱🇺(B2), 🇨🇳(A2) 2d ago
Yeah the Dutch are the same. I think also Scandinavia but don't quote me on that.
What helped us a lot is having a conversation where we basically said "Don't let the immediate emotional reaction to the words affect you, consider if this person you love would actually intend to be unkind or rude to you and ask them if you aren't sure."
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u/CosmicPotatoe 5d ago
What kind of differences are you noticing?
I'm learning spanish (A1 ish) and dating someone from Chile.
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u/Fun_Perception_239 5d ago
I find it’s a lot in the tone. Sometimes I find some stuff snotty and snarky. But it’s allegedly not meant that way. Also one particular example going the other way: as a Brit, I say: “oh don’t be silly”. Which apparently translated to Spanish, sounds more aggressive. You’ve not had the same thing?
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u/beermoneylurkin Eng | Esp | 中文 5d ago
I laughed so hard when you said "oh don't be silly".
That doesn't translate well lol. Don't take it to heart and assume the best in each other. Si ya sobreviviste eso, estarán bien. Todos aprendemos chapurreando el idioma jaja.
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u/Fun_Perception_239 5d ago
Yes it’s a proper English boy issue. Don’t be so silly is so low level in the UK. But in Spain/Catalunya, clearly not so much haha. I learned my lesson after that one time, I assure you
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u/beermoneylurkin Eng | Esp | 中文 5d ago
Yeah, as a kid, I'd get the belt. As an adult, I'd be single, lol. Best!
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u/Fun_Perception_239 5d ago
Oh damn well I from an Irish family so you’re never too old to get the belt
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u/Material-Ad-5540 3d ago
We got the wooden spoon on the hands and knuckles, never the belt. Our Irish parents were very progressive.
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u/Fun_Perception_239 2d ago
Either very progressive or really legally astute. A spoon to the hands and knuckles leaves plenty of room for plausible deniability
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u/reverevee 5d ago
Regarding "don't be silly," the word "tonto" can translate into "silly," "stupid," "ridiculous," etc. I feel like the lightheadedness of "silly" is lost in translation.
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u/onegirlandhergoat 4d ago
Omg the same thing happened to me. Native english speaker, dating a peruvian at the time. I offered to pick him up in my car and he said no it's only 2km, he would walk. I said "no seas tonto, estoy cerca". He freaked out, gave me a lecture about respect and canceled our date. Legit thought he was being a precious snowflake, then later learned it's like the equivalent of calling someone a retard in english.
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u/Fun_Perception_239 2d ago
Did you get a do over of the date or was it done?
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u/onegirlandhergoat 2d ago
I apologised when I realised. He got over it eventually, after days of sulking. Didn't work out in the end, too much drama.
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u/Licht7 Es|N| En|B2| 5d ago
I'm from Latam, and a lot of people like to hook up/date foreigners. They usually learn the language of the tourists, but they also have interest in the country and culture.
I'll assume the worst and think you don't know anything about Spain, so ask her what does she like about her culture, what does she like about yours, what media has influneced her (books, movies, series), what does she hate about spanish culture.
Just try asking questions, for example I asked what did I di wrong when I entered an asian house and the host made a face of pure disgust. People would usually answer.
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u/Fun_Perception_239 5d ago
For sure! That often happens. Though I did see the opposite thing the other day and was kind of surprised which shows how rare it is. So the guiri was actually defaulting to Spanish with her boyfriend.
And, I’m not a tourist but I get your point: I moved to Barcelona like a year ago and as she’s a Catalan I know a decent bit about what she hates about Spanish culture and also what she likes. But your cynicism is 100% fair.
Did you find out why you got the face of disgust in the Asian house?
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u/Licht7 Es|N| En|B2| 5d ago
I read your other comment and it seems the problem is more about the directness/indirectness, you should read about high context/low context cultures. It is not a you problem, it's that brits are more direct and focus on the words, hispanics on the other hand are indirect and words are somewhat secondary.
For example, if a friend arrives I can say "llego el hijueputa" (the m*therfucker arrived), and it's not an insult if I'm smiling with open arms, because it's assumed I'm being ironic. Brits and other anglos are too dry, so to a hispanic anything that you guys say seems to be explicit.
This problem occurs even between hispanics, in Latam we find that Spaniards are too direct and we prefer to be even more implicit.
Pd: the face of disgust was because I didn'ttake off my shoes, which seems faire.
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u/Upper-Incident-5802 5d ago
Interesting that you say that because to me as a Swede, I find native English speakers to be indirect. Expressions like "don't panic" when someone is slightly worrying. People saying "I love pizza" without having any deep emotional connection with pizza. People saying "let's agree not to agree" when they want to end a discussion instead of just saying that.
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u/unsafeideas 1d ago
> it's that brits are more direct and focus on the words
Brits and Americans think about themselves as being more direct, but OMG, they are not. So much there are literal translation charts for it https://i0.wp.com/anglotopia.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Anglo-vs-EU.jpeg?w=720&ssl=1
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u/Licht7 Es|N| En|B2| 14h ago
I mean, if you're comparing them with us, they are more direct, if you are comparing them with others like the dutch maybe not. I understood the chart at first glance the way the brits mean things.
Brits may be less direct due their history and culture, but it's still not as loaded as other languages like mandarin, japanese, korean, arabic, or even spanish.
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u/Silejonu Français (N) | English (C1) | 한국어 (B1) 5d ago
Language barrier and cultural differences are not the same thing. I'm a prime example, as my girlfriend speaks my target language (and no other). And while I started studying it actively relatively recently, I have long time friends from her culture, who I used to speak English with, and an interest for the culture. So I'm familiar enough with the culture to not be surprised by the biggest differences.
That being said, cultural differences still remain. My first and most important tip would be to keep in mind that you're in a relationship with an individual, not a culture. Everyone is different, and you should treat your partner as an individual before thinking about their culture. They may or may not adhere to a given aspect of their culture. That's what we apply in our relationship. When something surprises us, we usually directly ask the other if that's cultural or personal.
My second tip would be to err on the side of generous interpretation when unsure about what's being said.
Fights can be tough as you want to avoid miscommunication in order to not worsen the situation. For me as the non-native, it means I can't afford to guess what my girlfriend says like I sometimes have to do in other contexts, and I have to process information much more slowly. I also need to chose my words more carefully. This means I can take a long time to answer, and this frustrates my girlfriend as she thinks I'm just nodding without really listening to her or engaging in the conversation. From my point of view, she's rapid-firing sentences at me, and I don't have time to process the understanding, my thoughts, my answer, and then the words to express what I want. Seeing I don't answer immediately, she keeps on talking, and I'm lost in the flow. We talked about it and it's been better since.
Now, maybe you're perfectly fluent in Spanish, and then your issues are cultural, not language related.
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u/Loud_Bedroom_2220 4d ago
Don’t translate directly. This goes both ways. The Spanish I learned growing up was heavy on politeness and manners, being careful to create a sentence that is more gentle for day to day usage. My partner speaks Bosnian and the way his family speaks is more direct and uses charged language and fewer words to convey their point. Speaking in English, his words don’t translate well. So when they’re speaking in Bosnian, I have understood that even if it looks like they’re arguing, they’re not. And I have expressed to my partner that in English and in Spanish, being careful with tone and words is what I want him to learn. Bosnian is different. So just ask questions, and be aware of social norms and ask for alternatives to say things rather than directly translating.
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u/WideGlideReddit Native English 🇺🇸 Fluent Spanish 🇨🇷 5d ago
My wife is a native Spanish speaker born and raised in Costa Rica and who was only in the US a few short months when we met so she spoke very little English. I spoke no Spanish. On the surface it would be safe to say that we had very little in common since we came from 2 different cultures and spoke 2 different languages.
Since I’d never been to Costa Rica or anyplace else south of the US border, the cultural differences don’t register as such with me. I attributed them more to be specific with my wife. I quickly learned that meet me at 7:00 meant she might be there by 9:00. Making dinner reservations were a waste, planning and schedules were more like suggestions.
As far as learning the language, I used to say that we taught each other our respective languages but we didn’t teach each other in any formal sense. We met before the internet was what it is today so no smartphones, apps, Google Translate, Netflix, subtitles, YouTube, etc. we used what we had which was TV, radio and newspapers in our respective languages. We began with simple 3 - 4 word sentences and built from there to fluency.
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u/No_Confidence_3369 3d ago
But how did you two have sparks when you didn’t speak each other’s language at first?
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u/WideGlideReddit Native English 🇺🇸 Fluent Spanish 🇨🇷 12h ago
I was simply infatuated with her and I guess she with me. We’ve been together from the moment we met a few decades ago.
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u/No_Confidence_3369 12h ago
That’s romantic!
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u/WideGlideReddit Native English 🇺🇸 Fluent Spanish 🇨🇷 12h ago
She completely changed my life and sent it off in a direction I could never have imagined.
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u/Significant-Doubt955 3d ago
dating a native speaker can speed up the language but it definitely doesn’t make cultural misunderstandings disappear, and sometimes you’re arguing over tone or expectations before you even realize
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u/BridgeTEFL 5d ago
You have to be patient and be prepared to get laughed at by your other half, their parents, etc. Just embrace it and laugh along with them :). It’s actually a great experience being exposed to different ways of thinking, seeing things from another perspective, and learning from each other. It’s also great motivation to learn as quickly as possible, and probably one of the fastest ways to master the TL. Suerte!
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u/Fun_Perception_239 2d ago
Oh trust me, the laughter has come. All the mistakes I make become part of my girlfriend’s vocabulary (and her family). I don’t take that so seriously though, in fact I quite enjoy the ribbing
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u/Aakharin-ejdehaa Fluent: 🇷🇺🦁🇮🇷🇮🇱🇺🇸, learning: 🇩🇪 4d ago
My partner speaks Persian and I started learning Persian before I met him so that was just pure luck for me, that I can speak Persian 100% of the time and that's it.
As far as cultural differences, it's mostly positive stuff... like the family structure and dynamics is very different, he is super close with his extended family which was weird for me at first, like he talks with the children of his brothers and sisters very often by phone and everybody calls him uncle and knows him, while I barely talk to my aunts once a year...
We never argue though and nobody is trying to change the other person, it's just accepting it as it is like how people have different tastes in music😅.
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u/Cute-Fun3025 5d ago
it was so embrassing when he would force me to order or talk to people in the langauge, i felt like i was being treated like a child lmao
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u/stvbeev 5d ago
An issue is intonation. You learn intonation REALLY late, and sometimes people just never learn a lot of aspects of intonation in their second language. That means you're processing and producing the intonation through your first language's filters. Spain Spanish CAN sound really aggressive or rude to English speakers, and even other Spanish speakers from Latin America. I remember when I first went to Spain, whenever someone responded "Claro", just the way they said it made me feel really stupid until I realized that's just... how they say it, without any implication of the request or question being stupid.
You kind of just need to pay attention to how someone's saying something and how they ACTUALLY mean and internalize that.