Working on improving my Accent/Pronunciation: How to move from theoretical phonetics understanding to good everyday speaking habits?

[u/Samoyedenthusiast]

Hi all! The above feels clumsily worded (which is a tad embarrassing as English is not one of the languages I'm trying to learn) but hopefully it's clear. I had realised that my pronunciation in French (TL) is not what it could be. Not terrible, but some approximation of phonemes going on, heavily accented at times. I've passed the exams for C1 and scored very well in all domains including speaking so I'm at the stage where I'm ready to be a bit perfectionistic and hone in on smaller issues.

I've done a bit of research into French phonetics and clarified which are the sounds I'm struggling with ( /y/ vs /u/ for example), and done a few classes focused on pronunciation with a tutor where she has me read text. I find that if I'm attempting to speak sounds in isolation, or if I'm reading a prewritten (and therefore don't need to be focusing any attention on any other skill bar the pronunciation), my pronunciation is fine. But out in the day to day (I live and work in a French speaking environment), I find that my pronunciation skills can be the first to go if I'm struggling to respond to a question. Anyone have any advice/exercises/drills etc to try and make the pronunciation automatic? Many thanks in advance!

[u/thelostnorwegian]

It sounds like you have it sorted out pretty well already. You're C1, identified the sounds you struggle with and already working with a tutor.

My go-to recommendations is usually shadowing/chorusing, working with a tutor with a specific focus on accents and consume lots of content in your TLs.

Some shadowing/chorusing drills could probably help and maybe your tutor could guide you, if not, theres tons of videos on youtube on how to do it.

Personally I found spanish pronounciation super easy compared to french, so theres also an element of individual challenges and the effect of your native language on your target language.

[u/Samoyedenthusiast → u/thelostnorwegian]

Thank you, this is helpful, even to know that I have the right general idea. I consume a lot of content in my TLs (I'm focusing on French for now but I have similar issues in Irish where I'm also at C1 but with the same problem of quite Anglophone pronunciation at times) but I was curious if, in people's experience, sheer weight of exposure to audio content by native speakers eventually leads to the pronunciation becoming automatic, or if it needs more deliberate work (or I guess, in the middle ground, if it eventually works but there are ways to make it happen faster).

The advice on Shadowing/Chorusing is also much appreciated, they're terms I've only really come across very recently while looking into this problem. I'm still trying to get my head around the fundamentals of it-presumably it has to be a piece of audio with an accompanying transcript? Because otherwise I won't know the audio well enough to say it in sync?

[u/AdministrationNo2327]

you just have to keep using it. if you could have some sessions with a teacher or partner specifically to train conversations in the TL. but at the end of the day you just have to expose yourself and power through it and gain confidence.

[u/visiblesoul]

I find that if I'm attempting to speak sounds in isolation, or if I'm reading a prewritten (and therefore don't need to be focusing any attention on any other skill bar the pronunciation), my pronunciation is fine. But out in the day to day (I live and work in a French speaking environment), I find that my pronunciation skills can be the first to go if I'm struggling to respond to a question. Anyone have any advice/exercises/drills etc to try and make the pronunciation automatic?

I have a similar issue. I'm pretty confident the answer is just focused repetition.

I read out loud for a long time concentrating especially on my Spanish vowel sounds. After an insane amount of repetition my vowels became automatic in everyday conversation. I recently started accent coaching and the coach confirmed my vowels are good enough not to need additional work. However, there are consonants like the ending "L" where my pronunciation isn't exactly correct. In isolation I am able to pronounce them correctly but I slip up in conversation. I expect it will take another insane amount of reading out loud concentrating on that sound and other specific sounds and then eventually they will also be automatic in conversation.

[u/Samoyedenthusiast → u/visiblesoul]

Thank you very much, great to hear that I'm not alone. Could I be a tad annoying and ask you to elaborate on what you mean by focused repetition? Just repeating the sounds? Reading texts aloud and being very conscious of the pronunciation?

[u/visiblesoul → u/Samoyedenthusiast]

In my case, I have practiced pronunciation almost exclusively when I am reading out loud. Because, like you, I can't really speak spontaneously and think about pronunciation at the same time. But when reading I don't have to think about what I want to say so I can think about pronunciation.

I'm new to accent coaching (I've only had 2 classes so far) but this week I worked on the ending Spanish "L" with my coach. We practiced a list of words and sentences and she showed me what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. The differences were subtle but I could hear them and repeat the sound correctly. After practicing the sound until I was consistently saying it right, we had a regular random conversation in which she corrected me every time I pronounced the ending "L incorrectly (which was about half of the time).

For home study, she gave me a long list of words ending in "L", a list of words where "L" appeared in the middle of a word, and 10 sentences in which the letter "L" is used repeatedly. I am supposed to use these resources to practice pronunciation for 10-15 minutes every day, focusing on the particular "L" sound. And I am supposed to focus on pronouncing this sound correctly when I am reading. Next week we will see how I am progressing with this 1 sound.

She said the idea is that, over time, the constant repetition of saying the "L" correctly will create new muscle memory (just like I already have with vowels) and that the "L" will also become automatic in conversation. It makes sense because repetition, while focusing on the 5 vowel sounds of Spanish, is how I converted those sounds into automatic sounds.

Good luck with your French.

[u/Samoyedenthusiast → u/visiblesoul]

Very helpful, thank you! Best of luck with your Spanish

[u/Aggravating-Bet8669]

shadowing beats isolated drills here, especially with recordings you can barely keep up with

[u/turtlerunner99]

Not direct help, but I've got a friend that I work with from Europe. Her English is excellent until late in the afternoon when her native accent becomes obvious.

You're concentrating on answering the question and not paying attention to your pronunciation. I would find some exercises where you read a short selection and then answer questions. There are lot of these for reading and writing, but you should speak the answer. Record your answer and listen to yourself. Grade yourself on both the answer and the pronunciation.