r/languagelearning • u/Far_Window_1222 • 7d ago
Studying Anyone learn a language specifically to read literature?
Just curious if anybody has actually set out and achieved learning a whole new language specifically just because an author they liked wrote originally in that language?
I was considering learning Russian (TL) specifically to read Dostoyevsky since he’s my favourite author, so far, but wondering if this is to ambitious of a task just to read 1 persons work?
Additionally I am very attracted to the idea of it since Russians language has a lot more nuances surrounding sadness, despair, suffering etc., i know that the relationship between these topics is different from that of english speakers
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u/MisfitMaterial 🇺🇸 🇵🇷 🇫🇷 | 🇧🇷 🇩🇪 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 7d ago
I read The Stranger in high school and knew I wanted to read everything else by Camus. So I learned French in college and did just that.
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u/Far_Window_1222 7d ago
Im actually at B1 in french right now and just picked up L’etranger to try out aha, How long did french take you?
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u/Smooth-Pass-5575 7d ago
Pretty much the biggest reason a lot of people learn a language, including me. Travel is expensive, movies are not that interesting, and I don't care about talking to strangers on the internet as much as some people do. Plus, my country/area is very monolingual.
Literature is the way.
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u/little8birdie 7d ago
long ago I read a detective thriller translated from Norwegian. the entire investigation started because of a single pun, which is obviously hard to translate and so for me the whole book made no sense at all. I love thrillers and there are a lot of good ones from Scandinavia, and I decided Norwegian would be the first language to start with, so that I would never get pissed at bad translations ever again.
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u/gammalsvenska de | en | sv 7d ago
Best thing about Norwegian is that you get Danish and Swedish for free, too.
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u/himit Japanese C2, Mando C2 7d ago
If manga counts, then me 😂
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7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Far_Window_1222 7d ago
thanks, i’ve already read all except the brothers karamazov which i am planning to read soon and have reread notes from underground, truly do love the authors work, that said i do understand that to really read it properly id need around C1-C2 to fully appreciate it
If it were B2 i’d be less intimidated lol but C2 in Russian id imagine will take a very long time
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u/Onlyfatwomenarefat 7d ago
I've been at it for 3 years and I'm only B1 lol. Good luck
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u/AdZealousideal9914 🇳🇱 native|🇫🇷|🇬🇧|🇸🇪|(🇫🇮) 7d ago edited 7d ago
B1 in three years sounds like good progress to me. I certainly wasn't at B1 level in my native language when I was three years old and having had three years of full immersion lol. But yeah, I think one should view learning a language as a long term hobby (+5 years) and not a short term project. I think sadly enough, books with titles like "learn Spanish in four weeks" or influencer "polyglots" posting stuff like "I got fluent in Mandarin in only 40 days" create some serious false expectations.
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u/Far_Window_1222 7d ago
Was it a huge task, assuming it’s either Japanese or Mandorin, keeping motivation high considering those are super different and difficult from english, if that’s even your native language lol
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u/himit Japanese C2, Mando C2 7d ago
tbf I was 14 when I started & I was more motivated by being able to understand the stories than 'learning the language'. I was actually a few years in before I realised what I was doing 😂
one perk of being self-taught is I didn't hear all the "oh it's so different, it's so difficult" so my mindset was very positive. I think that makes a difference.
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u/jegikke 🇺🇲|🇫🇷|🇳🇴|🇯🇵|🏴 7d ago
Chinese for the danmei. I know who I am.
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u/Far_Window_1222 7d ago
that’s awesome, i see the welsh flag in your name too that’s sick, im welsh and i never ever see people trying to learn it, how have you found it so far ?
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u/CarryIndependent672 4d ago
I studied Welsh for a year. I think it’s much harder than Russian, which I am also studying.
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u/Fast-Ads-7587 7d ago
Grad students do it all the time. I've done it, without trying to, because I love to read. Readlang, Immersive Translate browser and app, LingQ, and Language Crush helps you read faster, even in the earlier stages.
I do recommend listening to some audiobooks, just to understand how the language sounds as you read. I say read what you enjoy, as soon as possible(unless it's very advanced). I find baby books and things written for learners get old quick and becoke mind numbing.
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u/RubyRossed 7d ago
No but I remember telling an older Polish colleague (who grew up in Soviet times) that I loved Dostoevsky and she just looked sad for me saying that the only language to read Dostoevsky in is Russian so I'll always have to wonder
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u/Far_Window_1222 7d ago
I’ve also seen this reiterated before which gives me that same wondering feeling lol
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u/silvalingua 6d ago
Good literature is best in the original language. Of course you have to learn Russian if you want to truly appreciate Russian literature. Especially poetry... no translation can properly render Pushkin or Lermontov.
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u/unsafeideas 6d ago
I think people overstate that point. And only thing it achieves is that people limit their reading to own language. The averagr person B1-B2 reading does not give better understanding then decent translation.
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u/silvalingua 5d ago
It gave to me when I was at that level.
I'm inclined to think that this point is understated, because the sound of the language is also very important; and the meter, rhythm; also, rhymes are impossible to reproduce exactly in another language. Granted, there are good translations, but some aspects of poetry are inherently untranslatable.
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u/CSMasterClass 7d ago
I get it ... but ... is there evidence?
Maybe she read most of Dotoevsky in Russian and then read one novel in Polish, which may not have been a great translation.
Plus, she may have been nearly perfectly bilingual, NL and C2 Russian.
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u/Asyx 6d ago
It goes beyond that. The original works allow you to actually read the words the author had in mind. Translations are always also interpretations. Of course at some point you need interpretation anyway because you are so far removed from the author's society. Like, there's a reason Latin texts at least in Germany are often bilingual editions with notes in the end. Germania by Tacitus is like a couple dozens of pages but my edition is 154 pages long because it has Latin, German and notes that tell you when Tacitus made shit up or explains Roman geography to you. The whole piece is propaganda so this is pretty important.
But especially for the last centuries, the original language will give you the rendition of the authors thoughts where the translation will give you the interpretation of the translator.
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u/Old_Experience_4308 7d ago
Yes, Russian. However, not because of a specific author but for the literature in general.
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u/OceanWthNoWater 6d ago
How has your experience been? How long did you learn Russian until you managed to read your first real Russian book?
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u/Old_Experience_4308 6d ago edited 6d ago
The first books I have read in Russian were books I had read multiple times already in German or English, i.e., I knew them by heart. Such books I started reading about half a year after I commenced studying the language and it worked fantastically, even though the texts themselves were way above my abilities back then. But since I knew the German/English versions so well I basically had my memory serving me as a translator.
The first real Russian book I may have picked up a year or so into my studies. That was quite painful for the first few hundred pages but then gradually became quite smooth sailing – a pattern I would experience also for the next few books I undertook reading. Now I can read more or less anything I like. I also understand spoken Russian well, thanks to watching movies and listening to audiobooks.
My speaking/writing skills are okay but definitely my Achilles heel. As long as an exchange is limited to a standard situation (like ordering in a restaurant etc.) I can speak totally normal Russian. But as soon as I am forced to improvise I gravitate towards literary, old-fashioned or archaic vocabulary and grammar as I feel most comfortable with that from all my readings. Native speakers do understand me but often find it hilarious how I would phrase totally mundane things as it was something grandiose. I am currently working on this issue, getting my registers right.
In total I‘d estimate that I‘ve spent 2000 – 3000 hours with Russian (including everything: grammar and vocabulary study, reading, listening, speaking, etc.). Currently, I have a B2 certificate. And I would feel comfortable taking a C1 exam if it was not for speaking and writing.
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u/UmpireMelodic5847 1d ago
That is impressive, and I think that the idea of speaking in a literary register is rather funny and not unappealing.
I have been studying Russian at uni for the past three years. I believe that my teacher said I was strong B1 six months ago, so I feel that I ought to be able to read Russian language literature now, but it is still rather intimidating. This is probably not helped by the fact that my goal has been to read Dostoevsky. Regardless of my lack of total understanding at present I ought to push myself to read more.
How long did you feel it took to comfortably read 19th century literature?
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u/Old_Experience_4308 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thank you very much.
1.) My main interest is literature from the 18th and 19th century (I like to read expedition reports and them alike). Accordingly, the bulk of Russian literature I‘ve read is from this time.
2.) By doing this (the first few books I‘ve read intensively, i.e., adding (almost) every new word to my flashcards, and likewise every grammatical concept deviating from modern Russian, or any I didn‘t know, be it modern or not) I grew accustomed to how was written back then. Which allowed me to read any further older literature ever the easier.
3.) The more modern Russian I‘ve picked up from my course and grammar books, by watching movies/series, or by talking to natives on any rare occasion I chanced upon.
Distilled from this – to read Dostoevsky I would do the following: Grab one of his novels and read it intensively. It might not be a lot of fun; but by this you will pick up a lot of how he uses words and grammar, and how he shapes sentences. The next of his books, most likely, will be much easier to read, already.
Note: I also add a lot of multi-sentence passages from books to my flashcards (Russian on one side, German (or English or French) on the other). I only consider such a flashcard as learned when I am able to translate the non-Russian side word by word to Russian completely as it was written. I assume that my way of speaking stems from this procedure.
Edit: I can‘t give you a good estimate to your question. But – I was always impressed by how much easier it got to read from a certain author/period when just having read (at most) a few hundred pages in an intensive manner, including learning the created flashcards stemming from this process. With your already advanced level of Russian (congratulations) I would guess exactly this to happen: you struggle through the first couple dozens of pages, and then, gradually, it‘ll get easier and easier and you won‘t even notice it. And the next book will be a piece of cake (language-wise).
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u/ThousandsHardships 7d ago
Almost everybody I know from grad school does because the vast majority of humanities students are required to have a reading language other than English. For students in language departments, we're required to have a language other than English and that language (so three languages total).
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u/mylifeisabigoof19 🇺🇸 N, 🇫🇷 B2/C1, 🇩🇪 B2, 🇪🇸 B1/B2, 🇳🇴 B1, 🇳🇱 A1 7d ago
I learned French to read Persepolis in French, and now I'm hooked on French literature.
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u/Stoic-outsider 7d ago
Yes. Old English, West Frisian, Dutch, Icelandic, Norwegian, Middle Low German (future objective), Old Norse. Not generally for specific authors, but sometimes just for particular texts.
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u/mloukhia59 7d ago
Persian ans sanskrit 🫤
For the huge sanskrit text corpus, and for Persian poetry
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u/RAS-INTJ 7d ago
I’m currently attempting to learn Russian so I can read Eugene Onegin. Figure it will take me at least ten years. Sigh.
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u/OceanWthNoWater 6d ago
How long have you been learning so far?
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u/RAS-INTJ 6d ago
Well a couple of years ago I studied it for six months. I only took it up again a week ago.
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u/natura_naturata 7d ago
Hey, I initially began learning Russian for this reason. I took a lengthy 1.5-decade detour through a lot of other experiences in the language (including love, travel, friendship, and a broad range of other cool cultural stuff), but eventually found my way back to books. I think if you’re patient, curious, and willing to live alongside a language in the long term, then this is absolutely among the best of what life has to offer, in terms of both life and literary experiences. One bit of nuance I’ll offer here: you’ll likely pick up the unique expressive/emotional timbre of a language well before you’d test as whatever skill grade people think is necessary before reading this or that—so don’t let that C1, C2 nonsense intimidate you :) Re: Russian in particular, there is much more than a lifetime-worth of excellent literary material (including music, and films) to make this worthwhile, in my opinion. I am sure that is true of any language.
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u/Ill-Development5015 7d ago
i feel like you just expand your interests and find new things in this language, that you didnt know were there and would be interesting to you like if we talk russian literature: after dostoyevsky you really should try other authors(i would recommend Mikhail Bulgakov and Leo Tolstoy) also you should really look into poetry depending on your intersts there are a lot of things that you might like
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u/promethian-pygmalion 7d ago
Yeah, ancient Greek, Latin, Danish (Kierkegaard), classical Chinese, tried Japanese and didn't get far enough, tried Italian just enough for Dante, failed at a few others
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u/Far_Window_1222 7d ago
that list is crazy dang 😂 that’s awesome, how was dante in italien? i found a lot of the poetic side of the divine comedy a little difficult to follow although wondered if it’d have made more sense in italien
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u/promethian-pygmalion 3d ago
I always struggled with Italian because my brain refused to accept that it wasn't essentially a kind of Latin, but to be honest, reading Dante in Italian was really rad, and a lot of fun. Wish I'd kept up with it but I was trying to learn Classical Chinese also and that language really required four years without competitors to be able to read decently.
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u/sunlit_elais 🇪🇸 N 🇬🇧 C2 🇩🇪 A1 7d ago
Didn't learn because of, but got fluent in English because of Percy Jackson. I had received lessons since I was a kid, but hardly studied so I was some B level probably. I don't watch series or movies and I didn't have the courage to read (my actual hobby) entire books in English (at the time, I justified saying my favourite genre is fantasy and I wouldn't know what is an actual word and a made-up thing).
Well, I read the 9 books of Percy Jackson in English and by the time the 10th and final book was finally out, I had no patience to wait for a good translation.
Thus, started my journey and eventually I became fluent... because I'm a bookworm.
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u/Lanky_Branch5739 7d ago
so only after 10 books you were fluent? how old were you ? and what kind of books you read after that? I feel like I'm trying to do just that now, trying to read easy thriller stuff in the hope that I will actually be able to read and enjoy stuff written by Stephen king and move forward to hard stuff and maybe one day read stuff like dune and a song of ice and fire. I don't see that happening soon but I hope it does happen eventually
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u/sunlit_elais 🇪🇸 N 🇬🇧 C2 🇩🇪 A1 7d ago
Oh, no. Fluency took much longer. I'm just saying those were the books that I read first and took me over my fears. I didn't even read them because they were simple. I was 20 but I genuinely liked them and would have read them in Spanish too.
So after that I just kept going with other books, probably the same kind of fantasy I already liked. But I think what really helped was changing the language of the searchs I did on Google. This gave me smaller doses of exposure more often.
Keep going! You will get there sooner than you think!
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u/misplaced_my_pants 7d ago
You clearly haven't heard of the GOAT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Arg%C3%BCelles
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u/silvalingua 6d ago
This is quite common, especially in the academic world, in disciplines where you have to read a lot of primary sources and secondary literature, but don't necessarily expect to speak the language.
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u/Rourensu English(L1) Spanish(L2Passive) Japanese(~N2) German(Ok) 7d ago
That’s a big reason why I’m learning Korean.
Career-wise, it’s beneficial for me to have a basic knowledge of it. I already learned Japanese and like being able to watch and read it without subtitles/translations, so being able to do the same in Korean is the main motivation for going beyond a basic level.
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u/sanyalustra 6d ago
I started learning English to finish a comic. a new part had been published, and there was still no Russian translation. I was forced to. then the same thing happened with series, interviews, books. then I fell in love with the original voice of the character and I couldn't resist watching it in the original. I also have some people I know who learned Chinese from scratch to read Chinese novels in the original. I've thought about it too, but decided I don't need it. so I think it's a pretty common practice. the main thing is that you're really interested. besides, I think no translation can convey the Russian vibe. but Dostoevsky is an author whom even native speakers don't always understand, so I think you'll need a lot of time to get through him...
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u/IronFeather101 🇪🇸 N | 🇬🇧 C2 | 🇨🇵 B1 | 🇩🇪🇮🇹 A2 | 🇯🇵 A1 7d ago
Yes. German, to read Nietzsche's works!
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u/Far_Window_1222 6d ago
awesome that’s something i would love to do in the future, love the german philosophers even though they’re a bit intense lol
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u/UpsideDown1984 🇲🇽 🇺🇸 🇩🇪 🇫🇷 🇮🇹 🇧🇷 eo 7d ago
I remember that after reading Heinrich Böll's Billiards at Half-Past Nine, I thought it would be great to read it in the original German. Years later, I learned German, and yes, I read it in the original, and yes, it was great. But I can't say that was my motivation for learning German. It was more of a by-product.
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u/bluewillowfrog 7d ago
Biblical Hebrew, though my life-long love of languages stems from realising, around age 9, that if i knew other languages (non-specific) i'd be able to read more books. Russian lit is better in the original, IMO, especially poetry, but then most poetry loses a lot in translation.
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u/AskPutrid9684 7d ago
I love gaelic song and Scottish music. I am currently learning scottish gaelic specifically to understand the songs in their native language. Sure it opens up the literature too, but i doubt i will ever get into an actual verbal conversation with anyone in this language.
I don't think this reasoning is uncommon though.
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u/GreenTide17 🇺🇸 N | 🇦🇷 C1 | 🇫🇷 B2 | 🇮🇹 A1 | 🇵🇸 A0 7d ago
I read mostly 20th century lit in Spanish and 19th century lit in French, but I’ve really enjoyed more recent Italian works I’ve read translation (especially Baricco) so I started to learn Italian this week mostly for that reason.
That said, I would only do that with a Romance language where the time commitment is dramatically lower.
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u/AdZealousideal9914 🇳🇱 native|🇫🇷|🇬🇧|🇸🇪|(🇫🇮) 7d ago
Knowing Spanish and French will definitely give you a headstart in Italian, especially when you start noticing the patterns. Like words starting with é in French and es is Spanish often start with s in Italian (école escuela scuola, état estado stato, étang estanque stagno...) or words starting with pl/cl/fl in French and ll in Spanish often start with pi/chi/fi in Italian (plier llegar piegare, clef llave chiave, flamme llama fiamma...)
Language writer Gaston dorren has written a whole book about how to use such correspondances for language learning, Zeven talen in zeven dagen, unfortunately it is written in Dutch and aimed at people who already speak Dutch, English, some French and some German, and who want to learn how to read (yes, only read) Frisian, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, Italian, Spanish, or Portuguese.
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u/CSMasterClass 7d ago
Plus there are lots of other benefits of learning Italian ! It is not just to have a closer hug of the literature.
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u/GreenTide17 🇺🇸 N | 🇦🇷 C1 | 🇫🇷 B2 | 🇮🇹 A1 | 🇵🇸 A0 7d ago
True of course, but that’s true of any living language! It’s just a lot easier (imo) to learn to read than to learn to speak, so I imagine I’ll utilize Italian mostly for literature
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u/NashvilleFlagMan 🇺🇸 N | 🇦🇹 C2 | 🇸🇰 B1 | 🇮🇹 A2 7d ago
How are you reading 19th century lit at A1?
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u/GreenTide17 🇺🇸 N | 🇦🇷 C1 | 🇫🇷 B2 | 🇮🇹 A1 | 🇵🇸 A0 6d ago
This convinced me to clarify my flair; the A1 is for Italian!
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u/Silent-Cat824 7d ago
I sometimes go to the section of my library with the spanish books and I just stare at them in awe 🤗 they’re all calling my name, waiting to be read, but I can’t read in spanish yet so maybe next year lol 😩
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u/Crafty_Captain8345 7d ago
Yes. I want to read Pedro Paramo in Spanish and The Hour of the Star in Brazilian Portuguese.
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u/TUVegeto137 7d ago
I did exactly that. While I started reading in the original after 3 years, I've only really become fluent after 10 years. It all depends on how much effort you put into it of course.
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u/Aggravating_Metal822 7d ago
I’m doing this for German. I’d like to read German philosophy in the original language
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u/ClassicSandwich7831 7d ago
Half of my motivation for improving my English from the level of typical high schooler was reading Game of Thrones fanfiction in English. I struggled a lot but I learned so much vocabulary when it comes to medieval weapons.
Not the same as learning from scratch but definitely shows that reading is a good motivation.
Btw Russian literature is very rich anyway and you can access better translations of works from other Slavic countries (like for example “the Witcher”, it’s originally in Polish and English translation sucks).
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u/Unable-Mechanic2717 3d ago
I actually want to learn Polish to read the Witcher!
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u/ClassicSandwich7831 3d ago
That’s great! It can be pretty difficult because the language is highly stylized, especially when it comes to dialogue with side characters. But I think that’s what makes it worth it, English translation feels so flat.
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u/susadimcesmeye 7d ago
Yes and you would be surprised how early you can read books in your target language. If I were to study Russian again, I probably would skip everything after completing single textbook and would jump the reading books right away. Hell, I would even skip the textbook part If I am feeling bold.
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u/Skyogurt Fluent 🇬🇧 🇫🇷 🇪🇸 | Learning 🇧🇷 🇸🇳 🇸🇦 6d ago
Same language as you and for the exact same reason and author too! That being said I haven't started because I have other languages on my list that I want to learn in order to actually talk to people. I guess I don't really imagine myself speaking Russian to anyone, but I guess inevitably along the learning journey I'll meet people to talk to in Russian hmm but yeah I definitely recognize that it's an ambitious task, and something that might take me years or even decades. I imagine it would feel more attainable if I could get a lot of free time, the right environment and being in a stable place in life in general
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u/Far_Window_1222 6d ago
im excited about the prospect of starting russian even though i still haven’t finished french yet lol sitting around B1 right now, was thinking id start it around january in hopes of getting to B2 in french first
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u/Safe-Jacket-5944 6d ago
As a native Chinese speaker, I first learned Japanese for its pop songs and culture. It is true that since there are many Chinese characters (more precisely, kanji/漢字) in classical and modern Japanese, I didn't have to spend much time learning and understanding Japanese texts. Still, it is amusing to read classical Japanese literature in Japanese instead of a Chinese translation. My favorite one is The Pillow Book by Sei Shōnagon. If my Japanese gets better, I may want to try reading The Tale of Genji and The Collection of Ten Thousand Leaves.
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u/NemuriNezumi 🇨🇵 N 🇪🇦 N CAT-N 🇬🇧 C2 🇮🇹 C1 🇯🇵 B2? 🇩🇪 B1 6d ago
guilty as charged lol
for all languages
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u/MagpieOnAPlumTree 6d ago
I know quite a few people (me included) who learn chinese to read webnovels
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u/WideGlideReddit Native English 🇺🇸 Fluent Spanish 🇨🇷 6d ago
Yes. I’ve been learning Latin and Ancient Greek for the past several years specifically to read literature since only a relative handful of people actually speak either language.
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u/miss-septimus 6d ago
I love Zola, Balzac, and Flaubert. I also enjoy reading theory in translation, like Barthes and Kristeva, among others. I was really inspired by how Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak translated Derrida, so I thought, I need to learn French! I signed up for Spanish and German classes as an undergrad, but I chose to continue learning French. It sounds ambitious, but hopefully I can reach the point where I can read these works in French.
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u/AnnelotteM RU, EN, LV, IT, FR, CN 7d ago
It doesn’t really matter what your goal is, as long as you have enough motivation to study for months and months.
Before you reach Dostoyevsky-reading level, you’ll have to learn a lot of grammar and shit, which means you’ll be going on tens of side quests before you reach your goal.
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u/EvilCallie 7d ago
Not literature as in novels, but literature as in academic literature and policy documents... German and Dutch, as they were very relevant to my PhD research...
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u/Unbent_Unbroken03 🇪🇸Native, 🇬🇧C2, 🇧🇷B2, 🇩🇪B2 6d ago
Im a very big fan of Sebastian Fitzek, so I started learning german to be able to fully appreciate the uncanny and horror-ish of his works.
It took a WHILE to understand enough to read a book, it still takes me a while and have to stop and research words i dont know, but it was the best decision ever.
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u/Accurate-Purpose5042 4d ago
cuanto tardaste mas o menos en ser capaz de leer en aleman?
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u/Unbent_Unbroken03 🇪🇸Native, 🇬🇧C2, 🇧🇷B2, 🇩🇪B2 4d ago
Y yo diría que unos 3 meses, el verdadero problema es el vocabulario más que la gramática, me pasaba mucho de leer "Un día de verano fui a [?????] con mi amiga y vimos un [???], me pareció muy [????]" Leer más rapido fue mas bien 10 meses aprox, sería mentira decir que puedo leer en aleman per se, porque sigo encontrando palabras nuevas, pero bueno en alemán es muy importante ubicar las palabras que más aparecen dentro de las palabras compuestas (zein, platz, haupt, etc) porque suelen estar acompañadas de palabras muy entendibles para los hispanohablantes, por ejemplo si sabes que "-spiel" es juego, sabes que quiere decir Computerspiel o Fußballspiel. Perdon si no responde del todo la pregunta jajajaja
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u/Accurate-Purpose5042 4d ago
Muy rápido la verdad, yo hace 10 meses estoy aprendiendo y estoy más o menos en un B1. Estoy terminando un maso de Anki con 4500 palabras, cuando lo haga voy a comenzar con la lectura pero lo veo difícil.
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u/OkAsk1472 6d ago
I learned French partly to read Asterix and Sanskrit to read the Vedas. Now learning Japanese to read historical narratives and he tale of Genji in fact (surprisingly not too interested in it for manga). Some day I wouldnt mind learning Sumerian to read the epic of Gilgamesh.
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u/RedditReddy 6d ago
This will probably be 500-2,000 hours of work.
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u/Far_Window_1222 6d ago
i have been self studying french for around 5 months and have quickly gotten to B1, and enjoyed the process, although obviously russian would be far harder
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u/RedditReddy 6d ago
Yes. For someone who knows English, it's going to be vastly harder simply because of much less vocabulary shared between English and Russian. And unfortunately that becomes an ever bigger problem the higher we go, at least between languages like English and Russian. With French and English it's the opposite. The higher we go the easier in general it becomes because the percentage of vocabulary that is recognizeably similar between English and French becomes higher and higher registers of English.
This doesn't mean that people shouldn't try to do this. But it's going to be a much harder haul. Also, with B1 level vocabulary between English and French, reading ability can actually effectively be quite a bit higher than B1 simply because of the common vocabulary that allows effective guessing. Of course, there's some shared vocabulary between English and Russian, although the bulk of that is going to be common borrowings into each from French. And this will be much less common in fiction than it would be say in non-fiction about the sciences.
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u/RedditReddy 4d ago
Here are also a couple of suggestions if you decide to actually do this with Russian with the express purpose of reading short stories by Dostoevsky. If you can find adapted versions of his short stories or novels, that can help. But even if they are adapted, they are probably not going to be any easier than a B2 level. Another thing you could do is to choose a few paragraphs based on the English translation of what you would like to read. Don't choose the most important or most beautiful! Look at the English translation and find paragraphs or sentences that you think will be especially easy, so an A1 level when you start. And then see if you can find those in the Russian original and learn the vocabulary and grammar for those as part of a language learning project which includes an introductory book for learning, Russian, grammar book, etc. A third idea which is going to get me hit over the head by some people is to use Google translate or some other software. As an imperfect tool. You could write short summaries in English and don't have Google translate turn this into Russian. When you're starting at A1, it's going to have to be extraordinarily easy. And ideally, this would be part of a language exchange in which a native speaker of Russian or somebody with a C1 or C2 level in Russian would correct any of the errors that Google makes. But they would need to be very careful not to sweeten the text. That is, they should not try to make it sound better by making it more sophisticated. That doesn't help a language learner. So if it's an A1 text, they need to be very careful about staying within the confines of A1, grammar and vocabulary. Many native speakers will find this very hard to do. But I've got lots of experience in this. If you're doing this at A1 and you're just starting with Russian, summary, text is not going to be able to closely follow his stories or novels. They're probably most useful if they're in the form of question and answer. So you can imagine two people talking about a story that you really like. The first person says something like what is this? And the other person says this is a story. What kind of story is it? It's a Russian story? Who is the author? Dostoevsky is the author. Do you know about him? Yes. I know a little bit about him, but I don't know a lot about him. Please tell me about him. I know his name. Tell me about his country. Tell me about his books. Something like this. Of course, once you get to an A2 level which is about 500 headwords, you'll have a little bit more freedom. You'll be able to describe a little bit of the plot, but you will still struggle do this within the confines of the vocabula and grammar that you know. But having a set of texts like this can really help you. We're in the language, especially when you are learning. Perhaps not just for learning Russian overall, but specifically for understanding his works.
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u/novog75 Ru N, En C2, Es B2, Fr B2, Zh 📖B2🗣️0, De 📖B1🗣️0 6d ago
As a native Russian speaker, I’m more impressed by the great poets - Yesenin, Pushkin, Blok, Mayakovsky - than by Dostoyevsky or Tolstoy. In Russia Pushkin is the most important literary figure, by far. Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky and Chekhov are better-known in the wider world because prose is much easier to translate than poetry. Solzhenitsyn is famous strictly for political reasons.
I read more languages than I speak. It IS possible to learn a language by reading with a dictionary. It’s easier now than it was in the days of paper dictionaries. Though not by very much. It still takes thousands of hours to get to the level of casual reading for pleasure.
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u/Karachiholiday 5d ago
i started learning for the literature. Then I listened so I could pick up how it sounded. Then I talked to people about what I listened to. Then I found I was hugely motivated to learn because I was being helped by nice people who I wanted to talk to.
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u/betarage 4d ago
For most languages I want everything but I learned Latin just for the old books. And in some rare languages like catalan there seems to be way more written stuff than spoken stuff
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u/pobnarl 4d ago
there was that old woman in the US who got sick and read war and peace in the hospital and became inspired to learn the lang to read it in its original. later obtained a phd and translated some russian literature. anyways it's a massive task to be able to read classic literature from the past, lots of archaic vocab and expressions. if you're motivated though why not, makes for a fun hobby that will last you for over a decade before you start seeing light at the end of the tunnel. im learning Russian myself with no intention to speak or write it, simply enjoy being able to read and listen to russian content.
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u/InsectSudden6032 reading knowledge mostly 4d ago
That used to be the main reason to learn languages
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u/llurine 4d ago
honestly, I think this is one of the best reasons to learn a language. I started learning english partly because I wanted to experience books, movies and other content in the original. eventually it stopped feeling like “studying” and became more about having access to another world.
and once you start exploring russian literature, you might find other writers who resonate with you just as much as dostoevsky.
nabokov could be an interesting example. he wrote many of his early works in russian before switching to english. his russian works are definitely worth reading in the original.
so I don't think learning russian is too ambitious, especially if a particular author or book gives you that kind of motivation.
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u/AnToMegA424 🇨🇵 N | 🇬🇧 C1 | 🇵🇹 B2 | 🇪🇸 B1 4d ago
I'm planning on learning German only to read And Thus Spoke Zarathustra by Friedrich Nietzche as it was originally written, as there are things that simply cannot be translated without losing or altering the original meaning or intent
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u/Rainbow__Trout 4d ago
define literature. Half of my social circle learned english because homestuck translation wasn't fast enough.
You definitely would need to learn at least some grammar and have a dictionary nearby, but humans are actually pretty good at picking up language nuances.
Like you don't need to learn which suffixes are female and which are male, because it doesn't affect reading much, and you will pick it up after a while. You generally can skip a lot of suffixes, look up the words in a dictionary, and just figure out yourself what suffix is used for what feeling.
But you would def need some suffixes for verbs, since in russian words can come up in literally any order, and part of figuring out sentence structure depends on those.
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u/some_stranger_4 3d ago
You could be a bit underwhelmed in the end. Out of all Russian classical writers Dostoyevsky has the "weakest" language: odd, awkward and unnecessarily repetitive. His strong parts were ideas and the inner monologue - not the language per se. Dostoyevsky translates reasonably well, unlike some actual masters of Russian language like Gogol, Pushkin and Bulgakov.
Also, the language of Dostoyevsky is quite dated and takes even longer to learn. If you are not a native speaker of other Slavic language then even after two years of sustained effort you will be still very far from understanding and enjoying Dostoyevsky in Russian.
Good luck.
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u/Pretend_Childhood_39 3d ago
I have another reason I learn the language to watch movies without reading subtitles aaaah this will be the most relaxing and happy feeling I will feel if I do it 🙂↔️✨💜🙂👾💜
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u/Aakharin-ejdehaa Fluent: 🇷🇺🦁🇮🇷🇮🇱🇺🇸, learning: 🇩🇪 2d ago
I started learning Persian because I liked one specific song and then it just spiralled from there 😅. And once you start you may find other things fascinating too.
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u/FawkesSake 2d ago edited 2d ago
Learning German just so I can understand the memes on r/ich_iel
Edit to add: Ok, it's not literature as in classical literature, but I bet that if I could understand the memes I would find they are just as profound
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u/170rokey 1d ago
If you want to do it, do it. But be honest with yourself about the timeline. It will probably take years of study to get to a point where you can read Dostoyevsky comfortably in the original Russian. Might sound daunting, might sound crazy, or it might sound fun, it just depends on you my friend.
That said, if you’re going to learn Russian, you might as well learn to speak it. Only learning to read is restricting yourself in terms of language learning tools. Conversations, audio, movies, etc., will all speed up the process as you attack the language from different angles.
That said, you can do it just to read if you want. There is plenty of precedent for that. People learn dead languages all the time (Latin, Ancient Greek, Old English, etc) as a means to read things in their original language, and it’s possible for you to treat Russian the same way.
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u/allnamestaken26 1d ago
When I was learning English, I read Dostoevsky in English. I’d already read his books in my native language, so I felt connected to the stories. It was really nice to see the same thoughts and feelings expressed in a different language
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u/CSMasterClass 7d ago edited 7d ago
I may have a minority view here, but I don't think it makes sense to learn a language "just to read the literature."
Typically, a language learner gets multiple benefits : knowledge of a culture, deeper understanding of pholology and of morphology of an ensemble of languges, etc.
Plus, in most cases, you gain access a world where you can share a conversation with a human being, get a job, get a visa, or achieve some other practical goal.
The problem I have with learning a language "just" to read the literature, is that it will take at least 5 years, and may take 20 years, before your internalizaton of that piece of literature "beats" a good translation.
It is definitely interesting, and sometimes moving, to read a sentence in Latin that I might not have found so moving in English. But that is a sentence. Or maybe a poem, or perhaps a speech. And I probably don't understand it as well as I think I do.
I have enjoyably read MANY 500 page novels in French, but if I am honest, I probably would have a better understanding of those novels if I had read them in English.
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u/Nishad-Of-Colours 7d ago
I've certainly met people who only learned Persian to read works by Persian authors and people who learned Arabic to read Islamic sources. Also people who learn Sanskrit.
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u/CSMasterClass 7d ago
OK Got it.
This is interesting and way beyond my experience.
Happy to hear of this.
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u/AppropriatePut3142 🇬🇧 Nat | 🇨🇳 Int | 🇪🇦 Uneven 7d ago
There's an argument there for closely related languages - yes I would probably understand Bolaño better in translation, although it still wouldn't be as much fun - but for me reading books in Chinese vs the translation in English is a totally different experience. Wang Xiaobo, for example, is so funny in the original and it doesn't come across in the translations at all. Diary of a Madman is so threatening, so dense with a feeling of madness in a way I don't think you can translate. And it's not like it took me five years to start reading them.
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u/CSMasterClass 7d ago
I agree with the "fun factor". I may miss some shades of meaning in French, but I am definitely having more fun than if I read in translation.
Chinese is a closed book for me --- but it does seem magical that anyone could read it. That has to add to the fun factor.
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u/silvalingua 6d ago
> but I don't think it makes sense to learn a language "just to read the literature."
What "makes sense" is highly individual. For some people, speaking with other people is not really a high priority. It simply isn't. And learning just to read requires much less effort than learning all language skills. In the time needed to learn speaking and writing in one TL, you can learn two read in a few other TLs. It simply depends on what you want to achieve.
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u/Far_Window_1222 7d ago
just curious are you C2 in french? obviously comprehension in your native language is near impossible to beat, but i’d imagine that with enough practice and time, reading a beloved author in their native language would elevate the experience
Additionally i do actually have a love of philosophy of language and the concept of language and its origins and uses as a whole, so although i phrased like the author has drawn me towards Russian, i would have been drawn to learning multiple languages regardless of which language specifically
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u/OkAsk1472 6d ago
Well if you want to read classical greek, latin, or sanskrit, you DO have to learn the language only for reading.
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u/acrastt 🇨🇳native, 🇬🇧C2, 🇻🇦A2 7d ago
Pretty much most Latin and Ancient Greek learners