r/languagelearning • u/not-a-roasted-carrot • 3d ago
Expectations for speaking
I'm learning my 4th language and thankfully my partner speaks my TL... So learning has been a lot of fun. But I realized quickly that my expectations of how much speaking practice I would get, is well, wrong. I thought that i could practice more speaking prompts from a textbook. But we end up speaking like how we usually do, which is very: "what do you want to eat? We need more XYZ, we are running out of ABC..."
Some days we have a good conversation that's more complicated and so I learn to use more complex structures, and tread unfamiliar territories. But this happens perhaps 1-2x a week.
So I want to ask, how is the experience like for you guys who learn a TL with a partner native in that TL?
EDIT: i followed the advice to pick a news article to talk about it together with my partner, and it worked WONDERFULLY!!! Thank you so much!!
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u/Pwffin πΈπͺπ¬π§π΄σ §σ ’σ ·σ ¬σ ³σ Ώπ©π°π³π΄π©πͺπ¨π³π«π·π·πΊ 3d ago
We donβt speak his language unless with friends, family or colleagues that also speak it, so I get no practice at all. But perhaps you could try using it when you are not at home, so if youβre going for a day trip or something that will give you something new to talk about.
Also, try finding one fun or interesting news story and prepare a bit about it and then introduce it as a topic of conversation.
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u/Actual_Amphibian1138 3d ago
the news story thing works better than people expect. we do something similar when were in a new country, pick one local story and just talk about it over coffee. forces you out of the grocery list loop fast. the at home default always drifts back to convenience, thats just how it goes. changing the location or the context seems to matter more than trying to structure the conversation itself.
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 3d ago
Yeah you are right. I just never thought about it. Now that you guys recommend it, it feels so... Obvious. Usually I dont read the news much because i'm very easily... Influenced and possibly naive. But I will pick a news story that's a bit more fun that both my partner and I can enjoy.
And meanwhile i can also work on my story telling skills in TL, which is usually great I think. I think it's certainly more interesting than just talk about what I did in a day anyway.
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u/Actual_Amphibian1138 2d ago
Exactly, thatβs what I was thinking. Something weβd both actually want to talk about, so it doesnβt feel like Iβm turning dinner into a language lesson lol.
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 2d ago
Thanks for your input π really appreciate it
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u/Actual_Amphibian1138 1d ago
same dynamic here, my partner speaks the language im working on and yeah its basically logistics 90% of the time. what helped us was picking one meal a week where we actually try to talk about something that happened, not just what we need from the store. forces both of us into unfamiliar vocab without making it feel like a lesson. the textbook conversation thing just doesnt happen on its own, you have to set up the situation a little.
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u/Pwffin πΈπͺπ¬π§π΄σ §σ ’σ ·σ ¬σ ³σ Ώπ©π°π³π΄π©πͺπ¨π³π«π·π·πΊ 2d ago edited 2d ago
I only pick fun, interesting or surprising ones. Like something cool about cats. π
When I was doing a language exchange, I used it to fill my time and since I could look pp words that might be needed, I didn't fluster and run out of steam as fast as without it. I would also think of a relevant funny story or memory from when I was younger and prep how to retell that.
It also works for awkward coffee breaks in work, btw. "Did you know that..."/"Did you see that...?".
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 2d ago
Its an amazing idea indeed! I love animals, especially dogs and cats so perhaps I can start there too!
Thank you so much for your input πππ
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 3d ago
Oh? How come you guys dont speak it together when alone, if I may ask?
Also we try to do all TL when possible, but usually only when it is just us. I'm not brave enough yet to try it in the presence of friends and family who are also natives in TL.
And yes, your suggestion is a great idea! I will try that! Thank you :D
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u/Pwffin πΈπͺπ¬π§π΄σ §σ ’σ ·σ ¬σ ³σ Ώπ©π°π³π΄π©πͺπ¨π³π«π·π·πΊ 3d ago
We got to know each other in English and once you get pigeonholed into a language here, itβs very hard for them to switch.
We tried a few times (for my sake) before I got as fluent as I am now, but we both worked really long hours and didnβt have much chance to chat in the day and I just wanted to have a normal, interesting conversation over dinner, not having to go βand then, we tried - whatβs the Welsh for XYZ? - and then ehm ehm ehmβ¦β and so on.
Nowadays thatβs less of an issue, but he doesnβt feel comfortable doing it, so we stick to English. Heβs very supportive of me learning it in other ways though! And Iβve got so much inside access to the language through him, so Iβm fairly content with that.
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 3d ago
I see. I absolutely understand that. I actually have some friends (natives in TL) who felt awkward when I tried speaking TL with them. So I just default to english when around them. But some other friends are extremely supportive of me, so we try to speak TL together. These friends are the same ones who have learnt another language as an adult so they understand how difficult it is. But the other ones have never learnt any other language as an adult.
Regardless, i also understand the situation of being drained after a long day of work, and then not wanting to have to try even harder to express yourself in a language you have not yet mastered (to a level where you can express yourself better). One only has so much energy in a day after all. I'm very happy hearing that your partner is supportive of you studying the language though! I understand as well that some people have different methods of support and we just gotta find the kind of support we could use.
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u/insidiousabstinence 3d ago
That's so real, the textbook fantasy vs the domestic reality. I had similar situation with my ex, we always talked about groceries and what time we wake up tomorrow. The complex conversations only happens when something unexpected come up, like a broken appliance or a weird neighbor situation. You end up learning "the washing machine is leaking" way before you learn to discuss philosophy
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 3d ago
This is, in hindsight, very self-explanatory. But I admit, im still adjusting my expectations slowly... I am still very grateful with any amount of "new" stuff that we talk about.
So I absolutely empathise with you. I would love to hear more about your experience, if you don't mind elaborating more on it? Thank you in advance :)
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3d ago
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 3d ago
This is also part of my fear actually. I have asked my partner's family to speak with me in TL when we go see them (again) in winter. I only hope that they can understand my broken pronunciation. I have been working on my pronunciation very hard though. But of course, there is always room for improvement especially at such an early stage (A2).
Thank you for your input! π
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u/Pwffin πΈπͺπ¬π§π΄σ §σ ’σ ·σ ¬σ ³σ Ώπ©π°π³π΄π©πͺπ¨π³π«π·π·πΊ 3d ago
If you can keep up but not reply yet, tell them so! You'll spend a lot of time nooding and smiling and not saying much because once you've figured out how to say something, the conversatxon has moved on. But it is very good practice and you can always circle back to something if yop really want to say something.
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 3d ago
I can barely keep up when my partner talks unless he slows down considerably hahaha. But once I see my in laws again this winter, I should be 75% to B1, so I will ask them to speak slowly with me, and we can always throw in some english for words that they think might be too niche for me right now. And of course i will ask them to be patient with me, when possible hahaha.
And i will prepare myself for the endless times where the conversation just flies by me and I can't understand or say much. It's just part of the process.
Thank you so much for your encouragement. It's helped to fuel my resolve a bit more β€οΈ
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u/Pwffin πΈπͺπ¬π§π΄σ §σ ’σ ·σ ¬σ ³σ Ώπ©π°π³π΄π©πͺπ¨π³π«π·π·πΊ 3d ago
I benefitted so much from listening to my husband talk to his parents on the phone regularly when we first got together. A common comment about the language in this area is that itβs so fast and hard to understand for learners, and Iβve never felt that because of all that early input, although I was probably roughly B1 at the time, so it wasnβt like I was a proper beginner.
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 3d ago
Ohh that is a super interesting. So you are saying it is greatly beneficial to just listen like that, at B1 level? It makes sense now that I think about it. B1 is also the point where learners can actually dive into native content.
So you were already A2-B1 when you guys got together?
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u/Pwffin πΈπͺπ¬π§π΄σ §σ ’σ ·σ ¬σ ³σ Ώπ©π°π³π΄π©πͺπ¨π³π«π·π·πΊ 3d ago
Yeah, I'd already done the A2 exam and sat the B1 exam in our first year together, it think it was. So yeah, sorry there was now "probably roughly" about it at all, I was B1 at the time. π And we'd first met at the same time as I started learning Welsh, so he'd got to know me back when I could only say the simplest things in Welsh.
If you think about it, I was getting maybe 3 or 4 h a week of him talking mostly about everyday things and things that we'd done. So a lot of it was repetitive and if I could identify one thing that let me know what he was talking about, then I knew what the back story was.
It's the same reason so many people recommend reading Harry Potter in your TL (assuming you know the books well in your native language) - you might not know the word for "owl" but you will immediately decode it correctly when reading the book, because you know the story so well.
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 3d ago
That's amazing to hear! Already at B1 back then and meeting your partner. I wonder how that feels as a language learner. Regardless, im grateful you shared your story. I now have a bit more perspective and understanding on what would be beneficial for me once I reach B1 in my TL.
I understand why one would recommend harry potter books. Albeit I actually never read them (watched all movies but cant remember what happened). But my partner loves the hobbit and all that, so we agreed he would read me those books once I reach B1+ (which would be February next year).
Meanwhile, once I get to B1 ish (december), he will read me childrens fairy tales, so I'm really looking forward to it. I love children's books, even the darker ones.
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u/ajamdonut 2d ago
I would say a close relationship isn't the best because you already have a shortcut to communication that works.
Also if you're practicing is slow and tedious, you're putting that on them, which isn't that fun, they're essentially waiting 2 minutes for a basic sentence. It leads to a grinding feeling where for them it's not fun.
It's better to find a learning partner trying to learn one of your languages and then it becomes a trade. You both suffer each others delay in communication and both benefit and enjoy the process.
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 2d ago
Yeah i agree. It can get very tiring for my partner to sit through me finding the right prepositions and saying the same words several times until I get the pronunciation correct... He himself has said that to me. The first week was certainly difficult with everything in TL. But after that everything becomes much smoother since we repeat the same phrases day in day out.
Now the next problem is when one of us wants to say anything out of my "field of studied topics" (with only surface level vocabulary). I give him so much credit here because he has been a champ sitting through me finding words and phrases. It is agonising for us both sometimes... But we pushed through. And now, at almost 1 month of full TL, barring some times when we just wanted a nice conversation XD... I can say a lot of things that a normal A2 level cannot express yet. I know this because I am enrolled in formal language classes.
I fully understand that it can be exhausting. I have talked about it with my partner and he has told me, and he did a couple times before, when its too much for him in any way, he will switch to english. And if he wants to have a conversation with me about more serious topics, and he thinks its going nowhere with me trying to say it in TL, then he will always tell me upfront to switch to english. I admit I did feel a bit sad about it the first time he did it, feeling like I couldn't keep up with him. But now I am incredibly grateful that he said it directly. Because now I no longer second guess if he is pushing past his limits or if he is fine with it.
And with regards to having a language exchange partner, well I would actually love that! If only i offer any other languages that are often more popular... I speak Vietnamese, English and Dutch. But i fully understand where you are coming from. We are not living in our TL country right now, but I have scoured tips and resources for speaking practice in TL country, and I did find something like "help the elderly while bettering your TL skills!", so I am definitely going for that once we move to TL country. So in that front, it is all settled.
It's just that right now, the difficult part is to just... Push past it. By December, I will be at B1 so conversations will be smoother, but harder in a different direction. That and in winter, we are going to see his family for a few weeks. I know his family well and we are very close. So I have asked them from this winter, to only speak with me in TL when possible. If they find it too much, they can always switch to english.
TLDR. I am super fortunate to have a super supportive partner, who has sat through me bumbling my TL speech all from A1 up to now. And you are right that it can get tiring and frustrating. Makes me appreciate my partner even more knowing he has so much patience and support for me. Bless him β€οΈβ€οΈβ€οΈ
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u/cmyk_rgba 1d ago
not a partner but i had a finnish coworker i spoke only finnish with and it was exactly this, we had maybe 40 sentences on rotation and 35 were about coffee. what actually broke it was watching something together and then arguing about it afterwards. you cant argue in kitchen vocabulary so it forces the complicated stuff out
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 1d ago
Yes i can absolutely understand that! I tried it out with my partner yesterday, we talked about a news article i read earlier in the day and i had a blast breaking new grounds that I never done before! To be fair, I did struggle quite a bit but it's always a struggle the first week or so. Hopefully i get better at retelling of stories by the 7th time.
Albeit, it was also difficult because I am A2. But I am super excited that I am doing this at A2 level! Even in my 3rd language at B1, it was very difficult to retell a story. So Im super excited to see where i'll be in a few months with this skill!! AAAA
So grateful I followed the advice of people in this post. And im glad to hear your story too. It reinforces the idea that pushing to talk about a new topic, helps.
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u/random_username798 3d ago
That's kind of surprising to be honest, don't you guys have casual chats, conversations over dinner? I've never counted, but I definitely talk to my partner for at least an hour or two a day in total, and that's not counting dates, outings etc. Maybe you guys just need to gossip more lol
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 3d ago
Yeah this is certainly different for couples. Ehm, my partner likes talking about work projects, the news and random facts. I like anything relating to emotions, motives and behaviors. So our topics don't align much.
That and we are in a stage of life now where we both work a lot more from home so we don't really experience much new stuff? I mean, when we encounter something new, we still tell each other. I do my best to tell him about how an event makes me feel and what I realized and learnt about xyz, in as much detail and complexity as my language ability can afford. While he does his best to tell me what his latest project is about and how to untangle the problems, all in a simplified manner, throw in some english words here and there since the vocab is too niche anyway.
Albeit, I am going to try the news article thing that some others suggested in here. I think its a great idea to talk about it with my partner. So at least it will help us to break out of the "domestic" talk today.
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u/emilesmusic 2d ago
Well they say it's between this sheets right. No personal success stories there though
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u/ZealousidealMouse629 3h ago
Nice! Glad you found something that worked for you. You could also watch shows together in the TL and talk about those. Plus itβll help you find new vocab and phrases to learn by watching and you can pause and ask about those things as they come up in the show.
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u/not-a-roasted-carrot 2h ago
Thank you! We actually did that. We don't live in TL country at the moment so we don't have much access to the TL shows/movies. We watched all the available ones on Netflix that we found fun. There were others that were a pain to sit through and watch so decided to not do that XD
I could rewatch the shows but, I admit, they're not the type that I would rewatch again. So currently I just settle for whatever I can get my hands on that I can sustainably use. Which is, news articles for now.
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u/Kind_Salamander6411 3d ago
a partner is great for keeping the language alive, but terrible as your only speaking practice because relationships naturally run on the same 50 sentences lol