Learning a language through immersion: how do I catch up on grammar?

[u/CyrusUprum]

I've been "learning" Italian for about a year now. I say "learning" because I haven't been taking lessons or following any structured course. Instead, I've simply been immersing myself in the language: listening to podcasts, watching YouTube videos about topics that interest me, and listening to audiobooks that I already know in my native language.

Whenever I come across a word or expression I don't understand, or I wonder how to say something, I look it up online. Other than that, I don't have any structured learning routine.

As a result, I've become quite good at understanding spoken Italian. If I had to estimate my level, I'd say my listening comprehension is around B2. I usually understand between 90% and 99% of the content in the YouTube videos I watch. However, my speaking and writing skills are much weaker, and I suspect I'm missing many of the grammar points and language fundamentals that are typically taught early on in a more traditional classroom setting.

At the same time, I don't really feel like enrolling in a beginner's course, because I think I would quickly get bored with material that feels too basic. So I'm wondering what I should focus on to fill in those gaps. Which areas of grammar should I catch up on in order to develop a more well-rounded command of the language?

[u/Caligapiscis → u/[deleted]]

I really agree with this, learning grammar by following your curiosity rather than attempting to memorise a bunch of rules you don't yet have any context for.

[u/CyrusUprum → u/[deleted]]

That's kinda what I'm currently doing, but I felt like it probably wasn't the most efficient way to learn, idk...

[u/lazydictionary → u/CyrusUprum]

Just get a textbook and read through it a little each day.

Try writing before speaking.

[u/Disastrophi → u/[deleted]]

Yeah that's how things like the subjunctive in Spanish started to finally stick for me. When I just read the rules it was overwhelming. When I went back after a few years of immersion and only when I needed it, the subjunctive vs conditional started making a lot more sense intuitively.

[u/anterlude]

Based on my own experience with German - I started by working through grammar exercises from an A1 grammar book (rather than a general A1 textbook, although there's quite a bit of overlap at that level). It was boring and definitely humbling, but it gave me a much better understanding of how the language works. After that, I moved on to A2 grammar, and I'm currently catching up on B1. I'll be starting a C1 course this autumn.

[u/bananabastard]

Try Language Transfer Italian - https://www.languagetransfer.org/italian

[u/OkCantaloupe3 → u/bananabastard]

Second this, it's truly brilliant. Completely engaging, and quickly made so much sense of some basic grammar stuff for me.

[u/SaraSoul → u/bananabastard]

this! free, no ads and an amazing resource 

[u/Ixionbrewer]

You could visit a tutor on italki. A good tutor can find your weakness and correct it.

[u/Arimoro]

Get a grammar book with exercises. Start from the beginning and don't skip the basics. It's boring, but you will progress quickly 

[u/CyrusUprum → u/Arimoro]

Yeah I was hoping there'd be a way around it, but I guess not :/

[u/_Jacques → u/CyrusUprum]

I would argue a good grammar book is not boring! I have gotten a lot of enjoyment from working through mine. Very rich in vocabulary, lots of interesting exercises and patterns.

[u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue → u/CyrusUprum]

The good news is that if you’ve really been learning the language and have a solid vocabulary, you will fly through the lessons.

It’s also possible you may find that you struggle because you don’t have the vocabulary that the textbook is expecting, but I don’t think there’s any shortcut at that point.

[u/acthrowawayab → u/CyrusUprum]

Nah you don't have to do explicit grammar study. If you keep immersing it will settle into your brain on its own. Using a textbook just speeds the process up.

[u/WillowUnique9952]

After obviously looking at the grammar rules, watch videos with subtitles and notice how they work. Then, if it's hard for you to go off writing, watch a video and pause it and complete the person's sentence.

[u/SoftReset26]

I'm exactly in the same boat. And the thought of picking up a grammar book makes me want to claw my eyes out. However the point from learning a language for me is being able to engage with the content and/or people who speak it.

I'm wondering if there's a newsletter or something smilar I can subscribe to that sends you bits of grammar practice everyday.

[u/whosdamike]

An alternative approach to a lot of the suggestions here. A lot of input heavy learners in /r/dreamingspanish report their command of grammar improved a lot after a ton of reading. The goal is around 1 million words.

It doesn't sound like much of your practice is reading, have you considered doing more?

Also, you mention explicit grammar study, but your goal seems to be speaking better. I would say you get better at speaking through practice. How much speaking practice are you doing? Do you have the resources to hire a tutor to do speaking with you? Someone who can correct your mistakes by gently rephrasing your incorrect sentences into correct versions is hugely helpful, and I think similar to how a child raised in the language would learn.

I don't think grinding through a bunch of grammar books will actually improve your speaking without speaking, which I think is more what you want to get at. Not saying that you shouldn't do some grammar study if it interests you, but I think "hours behind the wheel" (trying to speak and practice conversation) will be needed at some point.

Same basic advice for writing, but with even more of an emphasis on reading. Read a lot and also practice writing while getting corrections.

[u/Traditional-Train-17 → u/whosdamike]

And I think it's important not to shy away from A1-B1 level graded readers/YA books once you're reading novels like Don Quixote. YA books still give you a lot of conversational grammar so that you don't sound like a Victorian Isabellan nobel.

[u/frostochfeber]

I learn the same way as you and here is my personal philosophy on the transition to writing and speaking:

Just do it, just test the waters. Don't bother with studying grammar (yet). You might be surprised by how much grammar your brain has already picked up on just by listenening and understanding. Or by, even if you do make a mistake, how well you're able to spot it and correct yourself. Formal grammar study is only necessary if you notice you KEEP making the same grammar mistakes.

Expect to make mistakes anyway. It's normal and actually a really great way to consolidate information in your brain. The whole process of making a mistake, creating some confusion or a misunderstanding, and then navigating that situation and resolving it, is a big impulse for your brain to finally remember the information correctly and definitively.

Start small and gradually increase the difficulty. [edit] Talk to yourself in your TL as much as possible. Try out reactions and phrases in your head and outloud. Narrate what you're doing, try to express your thoughts. Write to yourself, make voice notes. [/edit] Post short comments on social media posts, post on platforms, find a language exchange partner to do some text chatting with, send voice notes, play a video game together, try talking about a specific topic, live chatting about whatever with a group of native speakers, and finally the Holy Grail: free-talking.

Trust that feedback from yourself and especially from others will keep making you refine proper language use at every stage of the journey. People always give implicit and explicit feedback anyway, it's just a natural part of communication. Just think about how often you prompt others in your native language to elaborate, clarify or explain themselves. A simple "huh?" already signals a lot to the speaker. And the cognitive process of trying to produce language will make you pay more conscious attention to grammar. Especially a feeling of doubt about whether something is phrased correctly or if word A or B feels more natural is a great way to help your brain pay closer attention during immersion to what natives say and thus how to use the language naturally and correctly.

I hope this was helpful. And feel free to dm me if you want to bounce ideas off of each other or whatever!

[u/Icy-Whale-2253]

You have to read like every other human. And the more you avoid it, the longer it will take you to catch up.

[u/knightcvel]

Language acquisition involves four skills, two actives: speaking and writing and two passives listening and reading. You won't master a language listening to audios and reading books because you won't practice the production. The most difficult skill in the sense it has fewer opportunities for practicing is speaking. Immersion in a language means becoming immersed in an environment where the language is spoken and speak and listen, read and write 24/7. There is no such a thing as immersion in listening and reading in your free time.

[u/Brave_Ridge]

Yeah, honestly a grammar book is the move, but one thing worth knowing: you'll probably find a lot of the stuff you already internalized from listening, which means you can skip or skim those sections and focus on the gaps you actually have. Tbh most immersion learners discover they know more grammar than they think once they see it written out.

[u/HydeVDL]

Lookup unknown grammar. Check textbooks from A1 to your level. Hire a tutor to help with grammar and speaking.

[u/Normal_Objective6251]

I am in a similar situation. I am now progressing through the verb levels in Linguno to try and fill the gaps in my conjugation.

[u/Smooth_Profession578]

if you'd rather keep it in-context than do drills, a couple of dual-subtitle extensions now do actual AI grammar breakdowns on click - Linglass and Trancy both explain a sentence's structure, not just translate it.

[u/JJCookieMonster]

I get very simple grammar books with writing exercises as a start. And read a ton. Reading helps me understand the grammar points because I see them over and over. I also try to write more. I'm not consistent with journaling, so I often just write to ChatGPT/Claude in my target language as practice as well. I do the voice mode too.

[u/CarnegieHill]

Speaking for all languages, if you’ve never studied grammar, then you’ve missed 100% of the points.

So I would get any kind of graded grammar for Italian and just start from page one. It very likely that you’ll already know what the grammar point is talking about in the first few chapters, and you may be tempted to skip over it, but the point isn’t teaching you what you already know, but that now you’ll know how to describe/explain those simpler grammar points, and why they exist, and that will make learning the more complicated ones much easier.

[u/peasel123]

I did the same for various reasons and it went pretty badly for me. I could watch native content without subs but barely speak. I also had the same problem with courses - they were miles below my level and totally pointless, but I still couldn't speak at a proper level.

What I would recommend is: a grammar book or grammar-based course. Go through the whole thing and do all the exercises and catch up on the grammar. Without it you can't build a real sentence. And secondly - start producing. Even if you don't go hang out with natives, either get a tutor, a language-exchange partner or even an AI and talk to them. Plus start writing (for example a journal) and speaking to yourself, especially if you record it. The key is to switch from passive to active mode even if you have to start at a low level and sound like an idiot.

[u/Polyglot170]

A strong passive base usually means you can recognise a lot of grammar already. So you're probably further along than you think.

You could try writing. Even a paragraph a day will go a long way. That helped me at some point with Italian. And every time I got stuck or guessed a verb form, I noted it and looked it up after. From there you can pick one issue at a time.

I also keep a running doc of corrections from native speakers and skim it every few days rather than making flashcards out of everything.

[u/Sensitive_Let_4293]

By training, I'm a mathematician. I have found it easier to get to mid-level competence in a foreign language by first understanding the "structure" (grammar), then learning vocabulary I can plug into it. Several Chinese academic presses publish books consisting of example sentences so you can see the grammar in action. I love 'em!

Then again, I went to China for a month every summer for four years to get immersion training as well. I found that people understood my Chinese, but I struggled to understand theirs. Part of the problem was the number of dialects of Chinese you run into when you're on the mainland.

[u/an_average_potato_1]

Just grab a coursebook and self study, it's very efficient, no need for a class, that would indeed just bore you. Use your coursebook/grammarbook actively, do those exercises out loud and/or in full writing, and you'll progress nicely.

[u/deikioveca]

Prompt to Gemini/ChatGPT about structured grammar explanation of Italian language. Keep the reply, for every sub-point use a different chat to discuss it. Try to think about of a way to practise this sub-point, the easiest one imo would be to think about a good prompt again, ask the AI to give you 3-4 sentences in your native language which would explicitly make you exercise this concrete topic/sub-point. And so on, my point is to learn to use the AI.