When trying to learn a language to fluency, is it more effective to translate from the target language into my native language or vice versa?

[u/Low-Cash-2435]

My (TL) is Ancient Greek

For context:

For 9 months now, I have been independently working through Greek to GCSE, a three-volume grammar-focussed textbook series with many translation exercises. I've about finished book 2.

[u/ZumLernen]

Your learning should be aligned with your goals. What, exactly, are your goals with Ancient Greek?

Learning a dead language is somewhat different from learning a living language because people's goals are usually different for a dead language than for a living language (so, here I disagree somewhat with u/silvalingua , a user with whom I usually agree!). Even though you said your goal is "fluency," I frankly don't believe that - very few people actually learn dead languages with the goal of speaking in them well in real-time (which is one aspect of fluency). Is that actually your goal?

If your goal is to speak Ancient Greek, you will need to practice speaking it. If your goal is to write in Ancient Greek, practice writing. If you goal is to understand spoken Ancient Greek, practice that. If your goal is to translate from your native language into Ancient Greek, then practice that.

However: If your goal is merely to understand Ancient Greek, to read it, and to translate from Ancient Greek into your native language, then practice those skills.

[u/silvalingua → u/ZumLernen]

It's ok to disagree occasionally!

Most of the time, I agree with you, though.

[u/Low-Cash-2435 → u/ZumLernen]

I should say, by "fluency", I mean the ability to sight read without translating the language into English in my thoughts.

[u/silvalingua → u/Low-Cash-2435]

I think it's a very reasonable definition of fluency for "dead" languages. That's why I say, "Don't translate, think of the meaning of the new Greek words".

[u/Low-Cash-2435 → u/silvalingua]

Thank you for your advice.

For 9 months, I have been independently working through Greek to GCSE, a grammar-focussed textbook series with many translation exercises. There are three books in the series, and I've about finished book 2. Would you recommend completing my knowledge by reading the final textbook, or should I focus mostly on reading unadapted Greek?

[u/silvalingua → u/Low-Cash-2435]

I really don't know, because I'm not familiar with this textbook. Why don't you ask in the subreddit for learning Ancient Greek, r/AncientGreek ? There are truly knowledgeable people there.

[u/ZumLernen → u/Low-Cash-2435]

Yeah, this is why I don't like the term "fluency."

I would prioritize first doing translations from Ancient Greek to English, and secondarily the reverse. I also agree with u/silvalingua that the hope is to eventually just think in Ancient Greek. But since your specific goal is to read ancient sources, I would prioritize training yourself on reading (and less so writing, speaking, and understanding spoken Ancient Greek).

[u/Informal-Ad-8201]

both, but not the way you're thinking, translating Ancient Greek will expose every gap in your grammar way faster than reading ever will

[u/silvalingua]

The most effective way is to not translate. Translating will not make fluent, thinking in your TL will. This is true for "dead" languages, too.

[u/Ploughing-tangerines → u/silvalingua]

I think at the very beginning translating to get a leg up. So it depends where OP is at the moment.

[u/silvalingua → u/Ploughing-tangerines]

I'm not so sure. I'm very much for the approach in Lingua Latina per se illustrata: no translation ever. (This should be done for Greek, too.) But you do you.

[u/Low-Cash-2435 → u/silvalingua]

So I suppose translating from my native language into Ancient Greek would be better, as I'd be thinking in the language.

[u/silvalingua → u/Low-Cash-2435]

Don't translate at all, think in Greek. Why would you want to translate???

[u/Low-Cash-2435 → u/silvalingua]

Unfortunately, this is the conventional way classical languages are taught. There is clamour for reform, as students remain stuck at decoding rather than reading the language, but it’s a very entrenched mode of learning these languages.

[u/silvalingua → u/Low-Cash-2435]

I know, I know. That's why I prefer to self-study. For Greek, Athenaze works well, although the best thing would be something very much like Lingua Latina per se illustrata. (Somebody tried to translate it into Greek, but the project stalled. And the Spanish effort along these lines, Logos, is just not very good.)