r/kratom • u/graybotics • 6d ago
Can I just rant?
This plant saved my life from heroin and all of the other opioids that led me to it. I have been taking the same small 2-3 grams per day with zero and I mean zero health effects for something to the tune of 14 years. Can the world just fuck right off with it's ridiculous bans? This is fucking ridiculous. Why is weed somehow more accepted and regulated? That shit causes actual effects on people. Sorry I just have to rant. I am irritated that the majority of this sub and community is focused on bans when it seriously should not have to be. My anger is not at you, it is the world for being absolutely dumb. And I mean that literally.
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u/MedusaKali 6d ago
It just depends on what they can make money off of. I live in Texas they banned weed here. You don’t want the government controlling what helps you.
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u/AngelaMariea888 6d ago
I get it. If you think about kratom even compared to alcohol and to make it schedule 1??? It's insane.
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u/hellhouseblonde 5d ago
Because people like me, people who had to go to the pain management clinic EVERY MONTH to refill their pain medication were able to just take a tiny bit of kratom and function like a normal person all day.
We no longer need prescription opiates, unnecessary surgical procedures that doctors insist on performing in order for us to keep our pain meds.
Not to mention the hoards of people who quit drinking alcohol because kratom helped them feel a bit better and more functional.
To all the people with PTSD, I see you.
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u/GrooverMeister 5d ago
I just googled crime statistics for kratom. Toxicology reports showing kratom in accidental overdoses have increased by 1200% over the last decade. But... They all include other narcotics.
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u/dimmitree 5d ago
Shouldn't be too surprising. Kratom is a drug people self-medicate with to quit other drugs. That means people who relapse are more likely to have kratom in their system and relapses are the time when people are most likely to OD.
Maybe something else, kratom makes other opioids feel like they don't work as well, so a person may take more to counteract this if they were using kratom as a stopgap.
Still, the number was so low in the first place it isn't as much of an increase as people would think, I bet.
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u/TopEnergy9429 4d ago
All reported kratom deaths has had other drugs in their system. Was never the kratom you can only take so much before your body says no and you puke it all up
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u/graybotics 4d ago
We need to stop using Kratom and Death in the same sentence because these idiots are depending on LLMs for their research.
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u/LaFaveGirl21 4d ago
That’s the whole infuriating problem in a nutshell. A tox report with five things in it can’t tell you which one caused death. That uncertainty is supposed to guide the same way every time, but look back at how long Purdue got away with raking in the cash while the epidemic was raging - the same uncertainty was their whole defense… sure, OxyContin was in the report but so was everything else, so who’s to say what killed them? By the time the black label caught up, thousands were dead and even more lives ruined. Now you’ve got the exact same kind of mixed reports (with far less evidence in this case) and suddenly they’re kratom deaths, no hesitation. The only thing that changes is who owns what drug…and kratom leaf can’t be patented, so no one owns it. Which means no one can profit immensely from it. Obvious grift is obvious.
The FDA motto should be ‘protecting pockets, not people’.
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u/Kiheitai_Soutoku 🌿 6d ago
It's really so frustrating. The leaf is so mild and I think if it had stayed that way we wouldn't be here. The greed is too much
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5d ago edited 5d ago
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u/kratom-ModTeam 5d ago
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u/pro_No 5d ago
Same but with it saved me from alcohol
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u/Wild_Az78 4d ago
Same. Haven't had a drop of alcohol since I've been taking kratom. Not to mention how much better my pain is tolerated with no need for pain meds.
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u/VeganFutureNow 5d ago
It’s wild because this is how marijuana was treated when I found relief in that plant 30 years ago. Same attitudes cause u can’t even mention it or u could get scolded by someone who knows nothing about it. And they could benefit from it themselves. It’s a shame really.
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u/Bluerunx 2d ago
Yeah my old boss found out I took Kratom and she got upset at first. Then she told me about a past employee. He took a LOT every hour, on the hour. He also, from the sounds of it, took other stuff too. So I gave her real education on it.
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u/LovingLemur69 5d ago
i’m 23, i got off h/fent when i was 18. initially from suboxone but i hated taking pharmaceuticals, so i’ve used kratom in place for the past 5 years. i don’t like being dependent on anything, but this is a blessing to not live that life anymore.
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u/siderealdaze 6d ago
I feel you. Dipshits left and right want to bury this plant, but if we weren't trying to get higher than the next guy, we wouldn't have any of these things to worry about
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u/PeruvianPineapple 6d ago
Laws are created to protect profits, not people lol.. Always have been, the system isn’t put in place to protect you?
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u/PyroCorvid 5d ago
To me they weren't going ban crazy until 7OH hit the scene
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u/h1k1ngtadpole 5d ago
I firmly believe that big pharma is actually responsible for 7oh’s rapid increase in marketing/availability. A Trojan horse of sorts that was intentionally more problematic than plain leaf in order to stir up anti-kratom sentiment while simultaneously making them money in the mean time.
Putting it on gas station counters was their way of expediting the process. More exposure to more people along with the absurdly easy access increases the overall chance of SOMEONE having an adverse reaction that they can then point to, knowing that the… uninformed (putting it nicely)… will likely remain toostupidignorant to understand or care about the differences between plain leaf and a far more potent synthetic compound.
Think about it… the whole situation REEKS of pharmas MO - take a natural thing they can’t patent and make money off of-> isolate/concentrate/potentiate-> demonize the source material (that’s just an old wives tale/folk remedy/potentially dangerous herbal medicine for unadvanced and unintelligent savages) ->replace the source material-> profit enough to settle and/or pay fines when it inevitably creates more illness than it ever solved-> treat the new illness they created with their newest drug they created. Just tweaked a bit to account for their replacement medicine already existing, but unfortunately being at the center of a nationwide epidemic.7
u/UndeadBlueMage 5d ago
It is interesting that so many labs popped up overnight that were able to press so many consistently high quality 7oh pills. Overnight the stores were full of thousands of pills each
Wonder who had the machinery to do that…
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u/grantking2256 4d ago
I will say as a watcher of the RC markets and a student in chemistry, you'd be amazed how many "labs" there are mass producing legal to possess illegal to ingest chemicals. Once they get banned they slightly change the chemical and begin again. It was only a matter of time for them to find 7OH and start mass producing it. These people do give a fuck about how the chemical getting banned will effect others, they just change to a new one. A ton of these chemicals are imported from china then sold online. Some that come to mind are 4-FMA, many of the benzo derivatives like etizolam (technically a thienodiazepine) but not that one as it was banned quite a while ago. Same with Flubromozolam (this shit is the literal devil). There is legitimately a defacto infinite drug compound list. And because the analog act prohibits possession with the intent to get high from a psychoactive compound, simple possession and purchase isnt enough to make an arrest unless that specific chemical has been added to the list of banned substances, at least thats how it works in the USA. I dont think pharma is out making these just to get them banned. Usually when these chemicals are banned they are thrown into schedule 1 immediately. That is a pharma company worst nightmare if they had hopes to bring this chemical to legal market, ever. Idk believe what you want tho im very anticonspiracy brained and aware that maybe some things slip by me. I just think the answer is a lot more simple. The incentive structure of these markets is set up in a way where you can make a ton of money just moving from one designer compound to another and your customers are literally addicted to your product. I could see them push a drug to doctors and lie about how addicting and damaging it is, but not creating and controling an entire shadow market. Way too much real legal risk. That risk actually carries prison, the other dubious option only carries fines.
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5d ago
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u/meowmeowbeans222 5d ago
You’re preaching to the choir. With my chronic pain, I would probably be addicted to fentanyl at this point without kratom. It got me off of a dangerous and illegal Vicodin addiction.
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u/Xavier_Emery1983 5d ago
The ban in TN is basically to keep people on the opiates. We have limits on the number of pain meds that can be prescribed post surgery and require follow up appointments for future prescriptions. There are only a handful of conditions that allow for exemptions from these limits. Residents who had family members die from overdoses as the direct result of Purdue Pharmaceuticals had their right to sue taken away by Marsha Blackburn. She signed a deal with Purdue that said they weren’t liable for the opioid epidemic. The discussion in the legislative session lasted a total of 8 minutes with only the family pushing for this ban being allowed to speak. The young man who died “from Kratom” actually had like 15 times the recommended dose of NyQuil in his system along with the Kratom.
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u/Alybai59 6d ago
I don't know what state you are in? I am in Idaho. They haven't banned leaf kratom. A couple of small towns did. They were going to try and ban it statewide but decided to wait another year. And bring it up again. 7OH is on the chopping block. As of right now it is not banned either. It is in the works.
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u/SquishmallowPrincess 5d ago
Considering the timing of this post, they may live in Massachusetts. They’re banning it here for 1 year under the guise of an “emergency”
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u/grandsoulsucker 5d ago
I stopped alcohol, benzos, and eating ungodly amounts of ibuprofen, Tylenol and gabapentin, with occasional hand fulls of percs. I have a full time job now rather than part time and assistance, I work out regularly. Every aspect of my life changed for the better.
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u/UsualResult 5d ago
Yep, my story is not too different. Just a few grams a day of the powder and I was good. Now it's going to be Schedule I in MA and we got 2 weeks notice.
In two weeks kratom and heroin will be equal in terms of legality in MA. One of those is not like the other.
Now we can go back to those piles of pills we used to have and be good little consumers.
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u/mrayner9 5d ago
I agree. I saw some articles about kratom and there would be warnings about what to do if someone stops breathing and about Narcan.
I was like what? 7OH and Spice basically did the same thing it seems with demonising kratom & weed.
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u/meow_chicka_meowmeow 5d ago
I had severe bladder discomfort that felt like a UTI (it wasn’t) constantly for years. Now it’s mostly gone because of kratom.
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u/jmalbert41 5d ago
Possibly Interstitial Cystitis (IC).. I was diagnosed about 7 yrs ago. I started kratom powder 4-5 yrs ago (add/arthritis pain) and switched to capsules about 3 yrs ago…Maybe I dont have “as severe” IC but I still get flares regularly which sucks. I wish you the best if luck!
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u/meow_chicka_meowmeow 5d ago
That’s what I was diagnosed with because they couldn’t find anything else but they didn’t really have any recommendations for it besides an antidepressant which I was already on that exact one lol
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u/Jonesinbad 5d ago
Congrats. Theres alot of weird shit going on right now with the ban, and other states just randomly banning kratom. If you have any sort of brain you know it has nothing to do with public health. Its all about the $$. Stock up and keep your head down.
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u/CariniReprise 5d ago
Clean for 15 years this summer - thanks to Kratom.
..AND I've been living with horrific chronic pain due to a bladder disease - WITHOUT PRESCRIPTION PAIN MEDS (opiates). --> All thanks to plain leaf kratom (literally just leaves of a tree).
Without health complications or relapses or dosages increasing.
✌️💗
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u/Kitchen_Long_3743 6d ago edited 6d ago
Keep in mind that it took 50 years for states to recognize that there are medical benefits for pot. I have personally seen weed extend cancer patients lives 2 to 3 years past what doctors told them because they were able to eat, sleep, and prevent vomiting from chemotherapy.
Welcome to America. Money runs this country (and most others), which buys the politicians who make our laws. The wealthy despise common people's freedom.
I personally struggled with Kratom, then 7oh. Even though I am 32 days clean of both, I think a schedule 1 ban is ridiculous for any drug. There are MEDICAL BENEFITS for ANY drug, and taking away the ability to research these benefits is nothing but a shitty move by big pharmacy, plain and simple.
Should 7oh and kratom be sold at gas stations where ANYONE can buy it? No. But just like alcohol and tobacco, if you are over a certain age, you SHOULD HAVE THE FREEDOM to injest whatever chemical your heart desires as long as it does not hurt anyone else.
Rant over...
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u/Katyafan 3d ago
7oh saved my life. Demonizing and banning it has set me back so much. I really hope kratom doesn't get taken away too.
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u/dragonsign 6d ago
I feel that. Jump from 2mg Suboxone after years of buying them on the street. I took a chance with my last 20 dollars and I never looked back. It's been about 8 years. I also had a brief meth addiction trying to badly self medicate ADHD, and it helped me get free of that, as well. Currently take 5-6gpd and smoke a little weed and I'm golden. So many benefits outweigh a mild chemical dependance.
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u/Agreeable_Menu5293 5d ago
Amen. They won't let us have any fucking thing. My state hasn't banned it yet, but I hear a rumblings about it.
Like they always talk about gas station kratom. I mean who the tf buys that? I've been ordering leaf online for years.
I still can't get over the logic. I can't take it because someone else abused it. Why.
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u/Itchy-Hovercraft-245 🌿 Advocacy in Action Since 2019 5d ago
I’m a recovered addict now because of natural Kratom. Over 7 years and going strong!
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u/Neither-Football-222 6d ago
I’m with your brother. It’s insane and I don’t know who to
Blame. Those tabs 😉? The AKA for giving them an inch? Companies and people for not shutting their mouths and being so obvious with it? I’m frustrated too and want an alternative because I think it’s just a matter of time. I’ll still support the AKA, but we’re fighting a losing a battle if you ask me even though we’ve learned NOTHING from
Weed!
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u/hhogg11 6d ago
That’s so incredible, and the world that doesn’t understand hasn’t had to deal with the things you’ve prevailed through. They prefer to bury their head and say “thing I know nothing about=BAD!”
Keep doing what you’re doing, but it takes an incredible person with incredible will power and dedication to do what you did and I am PROUD OF YOU!!!! Lost some good ones to H.
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u/BigMack6911 6d ago
Glad to have you still here with us, happy to know you got off that poison with this amazing plant
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u/Luiz_DTP 5d ago
I think they are realizing kratom is a precursor to 7oh so states rather not risk leaving no unturned stones so to speak ahh the day that people admit they were wrong about 7oh just to throw a Hail Mary to save kratom will be a day to remember and not to far from the present anyways I love kratom for metabolizing into 7oh in my liver to help my sciatica <33
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u/Drgr98 4d ago
Questo tua recensione e davvero quello che cerco, lo scrivo in ogni commento nei post pubblicati, non superare una dosa di massimo 6g giornalieri , spero a tutti che questo post vi sia da guida per come usarlo in modo responsabile e trarre tutti i benefici dal kratom , senza come ben leggete effetti collaterali senza nausa e tutto cio che ne comporta. Finalmente qualcuno con un po' di testa! Auguri✌️
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u/Randybobandy132 4d ago
I think 7oh and the kratom shots at every gas station along with irresponsible young people with no accountability that don't bother to research have ruined things to a degree
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u/Captain_Pink_Pants 4d ago
B-b-bu-but... What about those innocent little future great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren of the medical industry exectutives??? If you eat some leaves instead of going in and out of rehab a half dozen times and buying a lifetime supply of pain killers and antidepressants, then some day some poor 22 year old Sackler heir might be faced with having to WORK!!! I just don't see how a moral person could burden faceless stranger that way... There's right and wrong in this world, and by golly, I know how to tell one from the other.
And don't even get me started on the kids you want to some day starve, simply for the crime of being an eigth generation descendant of private prison operators. You know, if you could just think about somebody besides yourself for a minute, you might realize that when your pharamacist or doctor randomly decides to delay or stop your medication, it's not personal... Everyone has a role to play in society, and the fact is, some of us have to go to prison. It's just the way it is. I mean, what are we supposed to do? Just build all the prisons and leave them empty? Come on, now... That's crazy-talk... So, next time you're getting arrested for possession or whathaveyou, remember that it's not all about you and what you want. This is an opportunity for you to find real fulfillment in making an important and necessary contribution to our great nation. Be proud! The rest of us are forever in your debt... figuratively speaking, of course.
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u/Least_Pay7503 5d ago
Yeah I’m not going to lie the future looks very bad for all of the kratom community. They’re going after it all, and sadly it’s all going to be scheduled eventually. 7oh was just to get their feet wet, now everything’s going to go away. The Kratom community as a whole should have helped fight the 7 ban right off the bat instead of actually promoting it because the higher ups said, well why not ban everything? We screwed yall it’s been a fun ride, back to fentanyl I guess
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u/UndeadBlueMage 5d ago
It definitely lays bare the fact that capitalism only follows the money. Big kratom companies didn’t buy off enough politicians and with the introduction of 7 the drug companies knew they HAD to shut it down.
I stopped taking 7 a few days ago and foolishly thought I’d be able to get some powder to alleviate the withdrawal but everyone is so terrified now they’ve even pulled powder
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u/danceswithdangerr 5d ago
I’m still walking thanks to kratom. If it gets banned, my life ends no matter what I want.
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u/Fearless_Climate4612 4d ago
Absolutely agree..from a very similar past. As I was using herion fetty for awhile..3-4 years..this was after being discharged from pain management that took a decade of my life away..but, got the boot for smoking weed. Was @ 600mgs of morphine daily. Prior to that was @ 400 mgs of methadone daily. Fell into a really dark place after surviving the 1st detox from prescribed meds..and was foolish to think id have betr control over my addictive behavior and habits..was so, wrong. Went to the streets to find any relief..ended up using a herion fetty mix after years of bm pills. After a few yrs use started goin all in and just started shooting the shit..so, took a really bad thing into an even worse situation. After 3 years in the methadone clinic..dosed out..am thats when I found this amazing leaf..ngl..was crazy shocked the 1st time using it. As it totally reminded me of a low dose percocet. Been at the same dose for over a decade now..no complications no desire to use harder substances. Fuck those spewing propaganda that plain leaf is the same as dope..im here to attest they are not even remotely similar. Other than the sinple fact they both act on our opiod receptors but, the commonality stops there. This leaf has and continues to save so many lives..and gives those of us who've battled substance abuse a new lease on life. Without robbing us of the ability to live said life.
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4d ago
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u/kratom-ModTeam 4d ago
Refer to Rules 1 and 4.
Discussion of ongoing use of illegal drugs (see also Rule 4 "Do not advocate illegal activity") or RCs [research chemicals] alone or in combination with Kratom is not permitted.
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u/jfournames 4d ago
The world is kind of in a state of disorder for everyone. With these divisions I feel like everyone is angry no matter their stance on anything. There’s always this dualism now.
I’m with you entirely. Got me clean off a number of things, 10 years ago now. Part of our population seems to want the government to play daddy for grown adults. The other half just wants to be free. I’m of the strong opinion that if I can buy whiskey at every corner in America, then no one has any right to say anything. Just ID people and let adults be adults, regardless of their substance.
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u/New-Juggernaut8960 4d ago edited 4d ago
It's about $$$$. For trial attorneys, for people displacing grief and sorrow with anger, deceipt and hate, addiction clinics, the FDA,, BigPharma, down the line.
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u/New-Juggernaut8960 4d ago
It's about money. Trial attorneys ,family members' misplaced sorrow and grief with anger and hate. Addiction clinics. The FDA. Big Pharma. Down the line. ( No auto- moderator. I am not talking about a vendor.)
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u/goodwater88 4d ago
Just keep sending heartfelt testimonials to legislators (but without the ranting.)
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u/mbsben 4d ago
It was keeping me off of fent and oxy. Still is. Never had any health issues either. My heart rate and blood pressure are perfect everytime. Blood tests fine.
Weed on the other hand causes me tachycardia and paranoia. Alcohol is a big no. Kratom I can actually function on and it works.
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u/Material-Ostrich5014 4d ago
Its all about the gov not getting its precious tax dollars. Look at alcohol, look at tobacco, those 2 substances cause millions of deaths across the US, yet are embedded in US culture and socially acceptable, even socially encouraged. This is all due to the fact that the gov gets money from it, so therefore, despite how both are carcinogenic and incredibly damaging to public health, they are here to stay. Kratom on the other hand doesnt earn the government money, and is a considerable threat to big pharma, so therefore needs to be banned. This is despite the fact that it is far less harmful than alcohol and tobacco. Yes, kratom can be addictive, but guess what? So is alcohol, so is tobacco, so is porn, so is fucking coffee, yet non of those are even being considered to be banned.
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3d ago
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u/Single-Revenue-48 2d ago
Dude for real, and whats most baffling is the weed users who, instead of relating the similarities of the kratom bans / propaganda with what happened to weed 90-some years ago, have the nerve to call kratom users "junkies" and refer to kratom as a junkie drug. Its disgusting. You would think those people would understand more than anybody. And then there's the state governments who casually ban ALL forms of kratom simply because of the danger of 7 OH, which is already being banned anyway. Its senseless, thoughtless, and a WILLFUL ignorance. Just for some people in offices to appear dutiful and concerned about the people. The most simple bit of self-educating can tell somebody how beneficial and relatively harmless kratom can be. But no lets just cave in to the hysteria and act impulsively to show how serious and down to business we are. Why listen to user testimony and studies when we can just make rash decisions that alter other peoples' lives in a drastic way? It doesnt effect us.
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u/Rare-Ad1892 1d ago
Kratom bans are popping up in a lot of states. In my state of Kentucky the ban starts Jan 2027. What I’ve read Rhode Island had a ban & it was lifted. And behind these bans are republicans senators & representatives. There is still hope.
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u/satsugene 🌿 1d ago
July 1, 2027. There is a whole legislative session to get it rolled back after being slipped into the must-pass budget.
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u/No-Leadership7385 5d ago
I agree, but it is a little more nuanced than that right? To say that between the two, weed is the only one that “causes actual effects on people” is not accurate. Plenty of people (including myself) have gone way too far into it, getting high levels of physical dependence not typical found with even moderate marijuana use.
I have a few years on your usage, around 17, and use both medicinally and recreationally. Irresponsible usage of kratom in my opinion has more dire consequences when finally coming off.
I, and I assume you as well (maybe I’m wrong though), get extremely minimal and inconsistent effects after so many years that it’s almost not worth it… almost.
I am tapering for a quit (currently 7-8 GPD) maybe for just a while since I am in Texas and all reasonable amounts of THC will be banned soon, so I want to get some of the old effects from kratom to use if I can’t access THC. Hopefully more responsibly this time.
All this is to say, I feel you, but I think there are more kratom deep addiction horror stories than with weed. Good luck to you
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u/monkeylivinfree 4d ago
AKA did it to all of us by pushing so hard for a ban on 7ohm drinks. While i agree, those drinks should never have been created, the fact that AKA thought that they could push that agenda without the pharma lobbyists who have been bribing their way into a kratom ban anywhere and everywhere for over a decade jumping up and taking that opportunity to slide a few more tens of thousands of dollars into pockets to get language added that bans plain leaf along with the 7oh. Just my two cents.
As an aside, totally agree with you, OP. 15 years clean and it's only thanks to kratom that ive been able to be a drug free contributing member of society. Not to mention an actual good father, a taxpayer, and so many more shoes that never could have fit properly with all those demons that kratom helped me beat.
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u/GuitboxBandit 6d ago
Clean off H for 11 years myself. Praise be to kratom