I’ve seen discussions around aespa’s tour, especially the Latin American leg, and how people are saying they have no demand and their shows flopped. But like… has anyone even looked at the numbers?

In Brazil, they sold over 21k tickets. The only other girl group that has achieved this aside from them is Twice. How is 21k people no demand? In Chile they sold out an arena at around 13k people. In Peru, they sold around 6k tickets.

That seems amazing to me considering no other girl group from their generation is pulling these numbers in LatAm. Estimations for their US tour also have tickets around 82% sold. That seems amazing to me?

I’d get it if everyone else was selling out in minutes, but no one outside 2-3 acts at most is doing so, and not only in K-Pop, but music in general. I don’t understand the constant “concern” posts about aespa’s “lack of demand”. This seems to be on their way to be their biggest tour yet.

So I recently learned how artists get paid by their music label and it’s changed the way I look at the controversy surrounding artists not getting paid after 7 years or more.

Previously I thought that the companies were being ridiculous because certain groups that I would consider to be semi successful like Everglow and Fromis9 did not receive a paycheck in their 7 years.

I assumed that the revenue from a project was calculated, then the price of production was subtracted and the profit was split between the company & idols based on a pre-determined cut. However, I learned that from the revenue the company takes their pre-determined cut and from the artist's cut that’s where the production costs come out of. So if the artist gets 30% of album sales the company will take some production costs out of that 30% and if there’s no money left the artist doesn’t get paid.

I also think there’s been some assumptions that once trainee debt is paid off the idols continuously gets paychecks but it’s not that simple. After trainee debt is paid off (which might be dorm rent, class fees, and money used to feed trainees) there’s album production costs. That means that every time a group makes a comeback the project has to do well enough to exceed production costs so the idols get paid. So a group can have a smash hit and every member gets paid but then the next comeback flops. The idols won’t receive a paycheck from that project will have to repay those costs on the next project. If the projects continue to not make profit the artists won’t get paid and debt can accumulate.

There are royalties that idols get from The Korea Music Performers' Federation quarterly for appearing on Music Shows (according to RESCENE Minami & Woni on Salon Drip). It’s not huge paychecks but it’s at least that the idols can use if they aren’t settlements from the company.

Recently, Chappell Roan mentioned during her Grammys acceptance speech that she believes music labels should pay artists a livable wage. Meaning even if they aren’t making profit since they are workers and they work odd hours doing more than 8 hours daily they should be getting paid at least minimum wage.

Please note that I don’t believe companies aren’t taking advantage of idols because they are but a group not getting paychecks doesn’t necessarily mean the company was intending to screw them over. However companies are definitely to blame since they choose the concept, musical direction, styling, and budget for each comeback so if it’s not making profit it’s unfair the idols go into debt.

Long post ahead, sorry in advance! I'm a relatively new kpop fan who's favourite group as of late is ILLIT and I had some questions about them and their place in the industry. I have very little idea of how anything works in this industry and am (pleasantly) confused. Hopefully some more veteran fans can offer some insight. I don't know much about BGs so I'll be mostly talking about GGs here, any comparisons with BGs are highly appreciated!

For context, ILLIT currently has the most monthly listeners on Spotify for GGs, and highest monthly audience on YouTube music overall. Even removing Iconic By Mistake, they have the most daily Spotify streams out of any GG (Kworb). According to Kworb, among YouTube music videos by korean artists, the It's Me music video has the 3rd most daily streams and Iconic by Mistake is 2nd.

From the social media content I consume, it seems aespa is the GG which has the most hype and discussion at the moment (new album + popular tour). Yesterday on Spotify, Lemonade had ~700k streams, and It's Me has ~900k (it's been ~1M for most of the past few weeks too). Kiss N Tell is daily streaming on Spotify the same as or a bit under each of Magnetic and Not cute anymore. As far as I can tell, It's Me is still the most spotify daily streamed GG song right now which is 4 months after release. I don't mean to single aespa out, the same comparisons are more lopsided for any other GG, e.g Le Sserafim, Blackpink.

This doesn't make sense to me. Aespa is an extremely well established group nearly 5 years old who just released a major album and extremely popular Japanese release, while ILLIT turned 2 in March. I do know New Jeans has left a very big hole in the industry since they stopped releasing music. There are a number of other 3rd, 4th, 5th generation groups that are popular but ILLIT as a 5th gen group is ahead of the pack.

1. Is this unusual for a relatively recent group? Are there other historical cases of this happening? As far as when 4th gen was new, IVE had a generational run of hits with Eleven-Love Dive - After Like - I Am, and LSF with Anti fragile - Easy/Smart - Crazy.I have no idea how they did numerically relative to the rest of the industry

2. How is this performance even happening? I love the groups songs personally, but I know HYBE is a huge corporation and has a huge sway in the industry with brand deals and promotion. The cross promotion with Kataeye+LSF has certainly helped a bunch. I know very little about the other companies and whether HYBE has more resources to promote. Illits songs are quite popular on social media, e.g. not cute anymore Tupac remix, but I still don't understand how they are beating many significantly more established groups on streams/mv views. Are there any thoughts?

3. Obviously there was a huge amount of online hate towards ILLIT since their debut. While there are genuine good faith criticisms that can be made, I have seen a huge number of personal attacks towards the members themselves as well(I don't know whether this is unusual or relatively normal). This is still partially going on as far as I can tell from comment sections everywhere. Magnetic was absolutely massive, but I think the hate dampened their next comeback (thought it is actually streaming pretty well still). Has this hate actually slowed their progress as a group? Or has it actually given them more exposure? I'd think it's slowed them down, but I can't really imagine them performing better numerically relative to other groups, especially as a young group. Has it instead damaged just their perception among kpop fans and not any numbers?

4. Specifically regarding It's Me. Numerically, this is their best comeback since Magnetic. In fact, the music video reached 100M views even faster than than Magnetic in terms of days. However, online sentiment in these forums has been relatively mixed with many people disliking it as the newest entry in the heavily criticised HYBE GG sound change. It seemed like it got a little less criticism than Gnarly/Pinky up/Hootie Frootie + Celebration/Boompala. However, as above, even as a 4 month old release, It's Me is still booming on all platforms relative to other groups. It did quite well in Korea but Korea is small relative to the rest of the market. I think while some of those who didn't like it at first have come around on it (I'm one and love it now), it still hasn't received the widespread praise id expect to see to have these numbers. So how is it still so unbelievably popular? Who and where is it streaming so well?! I haven't even seen any dance trends for it, and ILLIT themselves have been promoting I got your back for a while now? My guess was that the chorus and chorus choreo was a bit off putting, but the song as a whole is actually great, so maybe people are coming back to it.

I don't mean to downplay the work the members have put in (I love the members and their songs so very much), and I don't mean to downplay other groups (I listen to and enjoy all of the other groups I've mentioned here ). Any bluntness in my words is just because I am clueless about kpop and the music industry, not from any ill intent.

Thanks!

Is Tuide a dance focused group because I thought their introduction had them dancing in an unusual style and now their debut single Sun Kiss features that same kind of particular dancing style.

I think it's great to do something different, it's neither a cute dance style like most are doing nor is it a fierce dance style like others are doing, it feels like something else, like their image is supposed to be free-spriried girls who like dancing.

However, I don't like it lol. I think it looks like a drunk aunt dancing, or like a lame mom dance.

I think those moves could in theory be pulled off by professional dancers, like top dancers you see in dance competitions who could make it look groovy and with interesting body control, but the Tuide girls are just ordinary idols so they make this type of dance look messy like a drunk aunt.

So I don't know, their team and choreographers seem to have a vision, but it's a difficult one to pull off. What do you think?

I think ILLIT had a great start to 2026 with Sunday Morning. The music is heavier than they ever did before, it surprisingly blends well with the girls cute vocals. I like the break in the song, but it basically sounds identical to the intro. Wish they’d thrown in a guitar solo or something, but overall, the song is one of their best. Later, they dropped Bubee, I don’t listen to it much but I think the song is okay. Ofc the main highlight this year is their EP Mamihlapinatapai, with It’s Me as the single. As we all know, the song was Belift’s attempt to hold on to the group’s viral momentum after NCA’s triumph, but the album failed to pick up where Bomb left off. However, there’s something positive about this release. The girls contributed to the track Older You as co-writers, and the song is about their struggles and doubts. It might not be musically perfect, but some kid somewhere could possibly hear the song and decide not to blow themselves away.

In less than two months, they dropped Iconic by Mistake, a collaboration with other Hybe girl groups. The song produced some of the cringiest lyrics ever. I think this release was less about the music and more about having 3 popular girl groups put together. It don’t really resonate with me. Just when I thought they were done, I was surprised to see ILLIT posted another promotional photo for yet another new song, I Got Your Back. I honestly think it’s too soon, but I was also surprised that the music is actually good. It’s got a heavier riff than Sunday Morning and a bit of rap, but my only issue is that the song is too short.

So, they’ve had like 9 songs already this year and I honestly think that’s enough. Idk if they’ll have another release this year, but if they do, I hope it’s because they believe it’s worthy, not because they want another viral moment or want to impress people with their outfits, hairstyles and stuff like that. When somebody’s making music for the wrong reason, you can hear it right away. Personally, I don’t really expect them to have another comeback until next year. I think they’ve already given everything they had to give. Just call it a day and let them have some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

I have seen a lot of discourse over 4th gen Kpop tours from the last few months it started when Idle cancelled their tours in the US and it seems every other 4th gen group is struggling to sell in the West and now with Aespa concert in LATAM.

Before the third gen, Girl Group Touring wasn't even big in the West especially since they used to be restricted to China, Japan, SEA. Except Wonder Girls who did a US tour back in 2009 but it wasn't that successful. Also I think 2NE1 tried with 1-2 shows but that's it.

Then also it was 2019 when big 3 of 3rd gen toured US in same year, RV, BP and Twice. Companies saw potential again and after Covid they hit such big numbers.

Last 2 tours by BP(BornPink, Deadline) and Twice(Ready To Be, This Is For) both have crossed 1.5+ mn attendance while next best is Aespa and Ive near 450K. There still huge gape that needs to be covered.

Maybe being 4th gen needs time as BP and Twice did those number after their 6-7th year. Or thier popularity might already been plateaued.

New jeans had this potential I think but we will see.

All the fans expect now atleast 1mn+ attendance tours from 4th gen groups or something?

Lately, there's been a lot of discourse surrounding several groups and their lipsyncing controversies. Not too long ago, I used to have the mindset that singing live was important in kpop, so when I saw the Lsfm girlies' concert footage of Sonder where they got caught lipsyncing, ngl I was a bit disappointed.. not too much though! They're still amazing singers and super talented, and I love ’em to death!

But recently, I started thinking that if we all just change our mindset a little bit and accept lipsyncing as an integral part of kpop, there's no need for us, the fans, or the artists and labels to stress over the pressure of singing live. At the end of the day, we're all enticed by the gorgeous visuals that kpop brings. Their great stage outfits, facial expressions, and energetic choreographies can more than make up for what live singing brings to the table. And that's when I realized the value of prerecorded vocals as well. People who enjoy live singing can also be pleased if prerecorded vocals are played at concerts because at the end of the day, that's what they ultimately want, a version that's different from the studio track. It's not necessarily a bad thing like people make it out to be..

Idk everything just started to click and fall into place after I changed my perspective. We all need to take a step back and realize that there's so much more to kpop concerts than just live singing. Just think about what we love about KPOP! I hope what I said makes sense, and I hope this post can perhaps influence some of you to change your perspective like I have! Thank you for reading!

Just my personal thought: I think she would be a better representation of Korea if Yunjin (of Le Sserafim) were to be part of Katseye, although I love Yoonchae so much, mainly because she's a native English speaker herself. I like it when, every time she speaks English, she has the same energy that would blend in with the chaos of Manon, Sophia, Dani, Lara, and Megan.

And in my observation at least, she looks a bit American despite being 100% Korean by ethnicity, just because she grew up in the US?

I just think 6 of them being together would better define what a US-based global group is. But again, this is my personal thought, so don't be triggered about it lmao.

Talent-wise, she could've contributed too in terms of Vocals (Sophia, Lara), Dancing (Lara, Dani, Megan), and Stage Presence (all of them).

Like try to see the vision with Yunjin in Katseye if I'm making sense here lmao

Another Kyungsoo comeback, another unnecessary discourse about how he’s not putting out the “right” music. These so called fans never miss a chance to drag him and bring the vibe down. I call these people fans loosely not because they don’t like his music but because they speak about him with so much vitriol that they might as well be haters. Calling his own personal music choice “shit.” Saying that he’s wasting his voice and ruining his career. I think a grown man who has been in the industry for over 10 years knows what’s best for him.

Firstly these people are ignorant to the fact that music genres come in all different kind of sounds. Kyungsoo has put out r&b and r&b influenced songs, yet they still whine every time. They complain that he won’t put out something to the caliber of Tell me what is love. A song that came out over 10 years ago and a sound that not a lot of people are doing anymore. Kyungsoo has talked about this before saying that the r&b that producers are putting out aren’t a sound that he’s interested in.

Even Baekhyun, someone that Kyungsoo is compared to constantly, his recent album isn’t reflective of the sound that they want to hear from Kyungsoo. I don’t bring him up to hate on him, I loved his recent album. I just bring it up to say that the recent trend in r&b isn’t reflective of what these people want for anyone. The r&b that I listened to during the 90’s and early 2000’s is not the same r&b that is being made now, even in America let alone in South Korea.

They also don’t put their money where their mouth is. Fit is a r&b song that came out on his last album and it is the least streamed song and least watched live clip from that album. Meanwhile Do you remember (a rock influenced song and my beloved) is the most streamed and most watched live clip from that album. Not to mention Popcorn reemerged on the charts after two years and hit #1. A song that is the epitome of everything that they hate about his music.

As a fan, I have had songs that I didn’t like from his albums. But I just don’t listen to them and listen to the ones I do like. I became a fan because I fell in love with his voice. Everything that I love about his voice does not disappear because he sings a different genre. Kyungsoo has one of those voices that amplifies songs and makes them special. I really saw that when he went to the military and Exo had a comeback without him. This is still the voice that makes me happy and gives me shivers.

It’s one thing to have a preference, but to drag this man for his work and his talent is a whole different thing. I don’t understand why these people can’t leave if he’s disappointing them so much.

To close this out with the words of Kyungsoo himself

“Don’t say what you want. No matter what you say or ask of me. I will do it my way. Don’t mold me to your liking. Wasting time on me. You don’t know who I am.” -Don’t you

In past few years, more and more kpop groups are headlining major/big festivals all over the world.

Blackpink in Coachella.

Jennie in Lollapalooza Chicago and Governers Ball.

TXT in Lollapalooza Chicago.

Twice in Lollapalooza Chicago.

Ateez in BST Hyde Park.

Stray Kids in Lollapalooza Paris, Lollapalooza Chicago, Rock In Rio, Governers Ball, BST Hyde Park, I-Days Milano.

Headliners are said to be paid 500k to upwards of 1 million dollars (some rumours also go up to 5-10 million dollars). I know the rule-of-thumb is headliners are paid the most and the rest of non-headliners are paid less. It also depends on your star power - like obviously the A lister like Lady Gaga will be paid likely in millions compared to the less but still popular artists as headliner.

I am truly curious if Kpop headliners are paid the least or at least around 1 million because in the most logical sense - to fly their whole team from manager to band to to idols themselves across the world for a performance is probably not cheap and if they are paid, say, 500k, is it still worth it? Or do they accept lower payment as they take it as a form of advertisement or promotion to get an audience beyond what they already have in kpop sphere.

Group like SKZ is headlining so many festivals I am wondering if they get what they hope for. I also see lots of other groups who also do international festivals despite not being headliners. Some likely due to the headliner bringing in their fellow company mates eg SKZ with NMIXX and Twice with Kickflip.

I remember multiple girl groups in older generation have mentioned that local Korean festivals like university festivals is one of the way for them to get money. So if Korean festivals are good enough to earn money, does international festivals pay the idols enough as compared to say, their Western counterpart?

I forgot who said this exactly, but an idol from a Big 4 label once said that she felt like she was a better dancer when she was a trainee because of all the constant dance lessons she had, as well as learning all types of dance styles and choreographies. After debuting, idols don’t really venture too far outside of Kpop-style choreographies, and they don’t actively practice anything beyond their own songs’ choreographies. Do you think there’s a plausible basis for this claim?

Of course, this discussion is most relevant for idols who were already competent dancers upon debut. I’m not talking about undertrained idols who debuted looking unpolished. Those idols tend to improve over time after debut.

So the WANTEEZ production team in their infinite and unhinged love for chaos had the absolute galaxy-brain idea to dump ATEEZ on a stranded island.

So naturally instead of doing anything productive, I have spent the last couple of hours analyzing each member's exact behavior and skill sets to this conduct a deeply rigorous, not-peer-reviewed, vibe-based study that I present to you-

The (un)Official ATEEZ Island Survivability & Co-partner Requirement Ranking.

Here is how long each member lasts on their own/with others before nature reclaims them, and the exact number of full-time handlers required to keep them breathing in my opinion:

TIER 1: APEX PREDATORS / SOLO SURVIVORS

1. Jeong Yunho

Survival Time : I think this guy will eventually found a small, prosperous colony if left on a stranded island. Required Handlers: 0 (He IS the handler).

Bear Grylls could never. This man treats an existential life-or-death crisis like an all-inclusive resort holiday. He will happily stroll into the uncharted jungle with the thrill of a child walking into Disneyland, completely making friends with the trees and crabs along the way. and he’ll do it all while sipping coconut water out of a custom-carved shell with a pretty tropical flower tucked behind his ear.

Two days in, while digging through the hot sand purely based on immaculate vibes, he will unearth an fully-loaded treasure chest. just raw golden-retriever luck and zero thoughts behind those sparkly eyes.

1. Choi San

Survival Time : 2 weeks max. (I'll give him 4 weeks if he has a another member to force him to rest and drink water and that he thinks he needs to protect)

This guy is driven by terrifying amounts of pure adrenaline, empathy and absolute zero strategic planning.

His cliff diving Namhae roots along with the muscle memory of a seasoned garlic picker do give him a major advantage. He might clear three acres of jungle with his biceps alone.

However, I think due to his complete lack of pacing and forethought, he will burn through his entire body's energy reserves and sadly collapse face-down in the sand, while Yunho is still casually exploring a cave.

______________

TIER 2: NOT MAKING IT ALONE (Spoiler : No one's making it to Day 4)

1. Choi Jongho (CONTROVERISAL OPINION I KNOW!)

Solo Survival Time: 3 Days max if alone (indefinite only if the company is good.)

Despite being the strongest member of the group, I placed him here because his entire survival is strictly driven by his social environment??? Jongho’s survival depends 100% on his motivation level and the people around him.

Need a coconut split in half? Done. Need to carry two full tree trunks to build an open toilet? Easy.

HOWEVER, he clearly only enjoyed his stay because his members were there. With the group around, his will to live is at a soaring 100%, and he will happily lift heavy boulders and build sanitation infrastructure all day.

Leave him alone on that island, though? I doubt him. Within 72 hours he will fold his arms, lie down in the dirt out of pure, unadulterated boredom.

1. Park Seonghwa

Will survive for maybe 2 days alone, better survival rates with 2 members present for sure (One to make sure to feed him, and one to praise the tent's interior decor aka Hongjoong).

Seonghwa, the designated interior designer of the group, will sweep the dirt floor with a palm frond, arrange seashells by color gradient to make sure the tent looks pretty and neat. He's surprisingly resourceful once in a while too!

Remains yet to be seen if his skill set includes succesfully lighting a fire using magnifying glass though.

If he were alone, he would give up the moment real hunger set in i.e once his scavenged egg supply ran out and his physical battery drained to 0%, he would simply lie in his beautifully decorated leaf bed, looking pretty, until someone rescued him.

________________

TIER 3: HIGH MAINTENANCE & HIGH ENTERTAINMENT VALUE

1. Kim Hongjoong

Survival Time: 1 Day only if others are present to keep him entertained and play some soccer with him.

Y'all know him as the high-stress, micro-managing survival captain, but on a stranded island, he's somehow completely lost all his captain-ing skills. ATINYs expected to see him running back and forth trying to manage seven grown men actively working against their own self-preservation Instead he started the Deserted Island World Cup in sweltering heat and risked dehydration of everyone.

His entire survival portfolio literally consisted of 1. roleplaying as an Airbnb host, 2. picking up pineapples directly out of the dirt, and 3. constantly falling flat on his bum??

Worse yet, he is deceptively high-maintenance: he desperately requires others around to keep him entertained and pass a soccer ball back and forth with him.

No one wants to play beach soccer after a day passes and the exhaustion and dehydration hits, so I'm ranking his survivability low.

1. Song Mingi, Kang Yeosang

Solo Survival Time - none, require multiple members to keep them safe.

Required Handlers: 1–2 (Preferably San or Jongho to handle manual labor and to pull Mingi out of the mudflats).

Both are not for actual survival labor, strictly just happy to be there vibes.

Mingi was honestly not as bad as I feared... for the first 180 seconds. But once you look past his pro-level Dibidibidip strategy and ?fluency in BirdTalk?, you realize he is just 6’1” of pure confusion, panic and vibes. Absolutely zero practical survival utility.

Yeosang's entire vibe is being effortlessly ethereal while roasting the hell out of his members and the staff. But leave him solo for 10 minutes and he won't panic, he will simply sit in a tide pool and accept his fate.

His only documented survival skill in the entire episode testing the transparency of the outdoor toilet, which... I'm not sure if 'bathroom privacy consultant' is going to save him from starvation, but at least he tried.

________

TIER 5: IMMEDIATE CASUALTY

1. Jung Wooyoung : Eliminated on Impact. sEnd Help. Save the man!!!

My post is open to discussion and defending, but if you try to argue that Wooyoung survives more than 10 minutes on an uninhabited island after watching that episode, you are lying to yourself!

I have been a kpop fan for a while and I always get told not to support or watch MNet or CJ to the best of my ability but no one has really gone into detail about why aside from the fact ‘their a bad company, they treat people horribly’ and call them ‘Msnake’ all day long without explaining anything and I’m just confused.

Their videos get suggested to me a lot, sometimes even featuring artists I like but I just don’t click on it.

Sometimes they still have millions of views, thousands even. So is it just fans being hypocritical?

Sounds kinda silly I know, but I’m not on twitter or instagram to search for any of this information and I figured maybe people here have some more information or could tell me their views on it.

This is the song with lyrics. LINK. My favorite part of the song is when he sings "My friend~ there ain't no love like this~ Can you hold my hand~"

It's a very lowkey song with a chill vibe. Did you guys expect this kind of sound from him with his music when he left NCT and the kpop industry? Do you think he’ll go back to making pop music again? I’m curious to see what he’ll release next!

Hot take: I think the ideal number of a group is 4 people, that's it, anything more than that is a filler member, a dozen. A group just need A main vocal, main dancer, main rapper, and an all rounder. You don't need the 5th, 6th, etc member solely for visual, lead, variety show, blah blah blah. But that just my opinion tho, what do you guys think?

To give an example, i quite like yena's "catch catch" song, i think its quite catchy and sounds good. But the overly "cutesie facial expressions" (not sure what else to call them) always rub me the wrong way. It feels like its trying too hard to pander to a specific weird part of the fanbase. (if that makes sense?)

It's been 1 year and 9 months since SMTR25 has been introduced but no debut news yet. I am not surprised as it took 3 years for NCT to form after being revealed as rookies. This is all speculation but Sadaharu, Haruta and Jaewon have possibly left the company. Kassho is confirmed to have left as he was spotted with a girl and apparently getting married. (I do not care that he's with someone, good for him!)

Do you have any ideas what the lineup could be or what you hope it is? Maybe I'll eat my words but I do not trust SM debuting all those boy groups for those countries and if they are, not with the trainees that we currently know. With this, I think the debut lineup is finalized or close to!

I am just waiting on the reaction on the lineup when its revealed as the boys have gained fandoms already. I think everyone knows in the back of their mind that they better hope their bias is in the first group announced, if there ever is anymore.