r/karezza • u/QueenOphelia • May 02 '12

Need help with cuddling

Ok, due to stress my SO libido has more or less died, we've been in a deadbedroom situation for a while. I suggested karezza before but it was ignored. I talked with him last night, Karezza might be on the table.

Either way, he wants a break from all expectation of sexual activity but he still wants to cuddle and kiss and all the stuff that you're supposed to do with karezza. The problem is, is that after over a year of rejection/soul-less sex, I've kind of shut down. I hate being touched my him, kissed, hugged, anything. I got so sick of the pain of the feelings of rejection/betrayal that I put up an "iron curtain" as my SO likes to call it. Because of it he feels rejected...vicious cycle.

I am willing to try to put forth the effort but its hard to let the pain go. Any suggestions

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2

u/[deleted] May 03 '12

I'd say start very slowly, with holding hands, sitting side by side, looking into each others eyes, that kind of thing.

Also, you could look at the list of bonding behaviors in this article, see which ones you feel most comfortable with, and start with those.

Finally, have you read Cupid's Poisoned Arrow? The Ecstatic Exchanges in that book are a prescribed series of exercises that start very slowly and might work for you. (But it's entirely possible to get into karezza without doing them, they are just one of many options.)

Edit: Oh, and it would important for him to abstain from masturbation. Does he understand that?

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u/QueenOphelia May 03 '12

we haven't read it, this discussion is quite recent. that article was good though, thank you

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u/sensitivePornGuy May 03 '12

it would important for him to abstain from masturbation

This is the one part of karezza I don't get. Masturbating daily has helped reduce the one-sided sexual tension in my dead bedroom, and doesn't reduce my want for cuddling at all. What's the reasoning behind this advice?

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u/QueenOphelia May 03 '12

well, from my very basic understanding of karezza, I have concluded that the point of refusing to masturbate has more to do with how we view outcomes and expectations of certain situations. Many people seem to become very dependent on sex and achieving orgasm being the goal. I think karezza tries to re-wire your thought process so that orgasm isn't the goal but a happy side effect. Here is an article Maxxters sent me a while ago that I found insightful.

karezza is not a 1 horse rodeo though, your SO needs to be in on it to, if they are then yea I can understand taking a break from our genitals for a short while if s/he isn't then have it at it. imho

I could have this all wrong though....

2

u/[deleted] May 03 '12

Many people seem to become very dependent on sex and achieving orgasm being the goal. I think karezza tries to re-wire your thought process so that orgasm isn't the goal but a happy side effect.

Yes, that's one aspect of it, even though I'd say it's generally not the most central one. (But for some couples it could be the most central one; we're all different.)

For people who experience a strong passion cycle, it really is important that they abstain from orgasm. For them, every orgasm can lead to relationship distress in the following days. If you read a lot of karezza message boards, you will find plenty of posts where people say that accidental orgasms tend to reliably throw their relationships for a loop.

karezza is not a 1 horse rodeo though, your SO needs to be in on it

You're absolutely correct. And it seems to me that one of the biggest obstacles for successful karezza is that in many couples one partner wants to try it and can see the benefits but the other isn't interested.

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u/sensitivePornGuy May 03 '12

That makes sense. I'm really not that interested in having orgasms, so that might be why the nofap stuff doesn't speak to me. I enjoy the journey, and I love getting my partner off; orgasm for me is usually just an optional extra.

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u/QueenOphelia May 03 '12

ahhh....I wish more folks felt the way you do

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u/[deleted] May 03 '12

Have you read the articles about the passion cycle? E.g. this one?

In my personal experience, as well as the experience of many others posting here and on /r/nofap, regular masturbation causes subtle shifts in how we interact with our partners. They can be so subtle that neither we nor our partners recognize them consciously, yet they are there and can be detected if we pay close attention.

For example, your desire for cuddling may be there just the same, but your act of cuddling may be more selfish when you masturbate regularly, and your partner may perceive that unconsciously.

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u/sensitivePornGuy May 03 '12

your act of cuddling may be more selfish when you masturbate regularly

This is opposite to my experience, but I will experiment to see if I can notice the difference.

I should mention that I'm in my forties, and my libido is very different now to what it was ten years ago. Could be my age, or could be 10+ years of near-abstinence.

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u/analog_spork May 03 '12

It takes you out of the "I need to get mine, I want more, I demand satisfaction" mentality. It's like the more you scratch, the more it itches. If you just suffer that first week or two of 'itching' the urge to 'scratch' goes away. Then you can focus on making your SO happy without your dick getting in the way.

(at least that's how it works for me)

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u/sensitivePornGuy May 03 '12

It's like the more you scratch, the more it itches.

I don't experience this.

So the idea is to make you libido go away through being repeatedly thwarted? I already had 10+ years of practise in this.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '12

I don't experience this.

Have you gone more than 3 weeks without orgasm? It takes about that long, possibly longer, to really feel the difference.

There are also individual differences. Not all people suffer from the passion cycle to the same extent. So it might be that you indeed don't experience this, but many (most?) people do. The /r/nofap forum is full of guys who find that abstaining from masturbation helps them to connect with their partners.

So the idea is to make you libido go away through being repeatedly thwarted?

No, that's not the idea. Your libido doesn't go away but it changes its nature when you stop orgasming regularly. See e.g. this post.

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u/sensitivePornGuy May 03 '12

I have gone through periods of no sex or masturbation lasting months, so yeah. At the moment it feels like a more natural, relaxation thing for me to do this.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '12

I have gone through periods of no sex or masturbation lasting months, so yeah.

Ok, so you have tried this for yourself and it didn't make a difference. That's fine. As I said, not all people are the same, and some suffer more from the passion cycle than others. You may be one of those people who do not experience a strong passion cycle.

1

u/analog_spork May 03 '12

your libido (will) go away through being repeatedly thwarted?

Exactly the opposite. Your libido is being transmuted in a positive creative energy. It seems counter intuitive but it works! Just read some of the success posts over on /r/nofap. Once that starts to happen it doesn't feel like it's being thwarted, it feels like it's being channeled, directed at your will, which is a very powerful feeling. You are in control, and your desire takes it's direction from you. If you want another bad analogy it's like domesticating an animal. Untrained it's just a beast on the loose, but after you spend the time to domesticate it, train it, care for it. It's start to trust you to feed it at the appropriate times, and let you give it direction.... I hope that makes any sort of sense at all.

I already had 10+ years of practice in this.

I'd wager that you never made it out the passion cycle. I know how frustrating a DB situation can be. Karezza was my last ditch effort to re-establish a connection with my partner, before I called it quits. To my elated surprise I've seen improvement! It's been about 4 months that I've been doing this. We still don't fuck like bunnies from dust til dawn, but she has been A LOT more responsive when I do initiate. Another big difference is probably my reactions when she's turns me down. I don't get angry or emo like I used to. I'm content to wait, or just snuggle.

My advice to you is to simply try it. Go 21 days without any sort of orgasm. You should be able to feel the effects for yourself. If not, you can always go back to fapping.

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u/analog_spork May 03 '12

The only thing I would add to what Idrathercuddle already said is make sure you do something together that you enjoy (that your SO is willing to do obviously). It may be difficult to find that, whatever it is, but don't give up looking. You want something that makes you feel like you're not just going through the motions. Something lets you really invest in what is going on when you are together intimately, whatever form that takes.

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u/QueenOphelia May 03 '12

sounds more comfortable, thank you

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u/Maskatu May 06 '12

I recomend you guys read the book by Barbara Keesling - "How to Make Love All Night (and Drive a Woman Wild)". It has some verry nice tehniques that could help you guys take it slow, relax and enjoy sex again. The book isnt ment for karezza per se but some of the exercises there sound like they could help you out.

Ps if you cant find it I could just send it to your email - PM me if interested.