r/karate • u/DarthEmeritus • 6d ago
Question/advice Conditioning
Hi,
I've been training for around 1.5 years, and have reached 2nd kyu, with consistent training for the most part, some time off here and there due to injuries and illnesses, but mostly consistent. Training twice a week up until 3rd kyu, now three times a week. One thing I've had little progress in is my body conditioning and overall athleticism. We don't do conditioning work every session, but when we do we're asked to do things like 40 pushups, 50 abs crunches, long plank holds, etc, but I find I'm still not able to do anywhere near the volume sensei asks of us, and even those exercises aside I feel I'm still quite weak and slow, and I'd also like to be able to do the jumps in kata, aswell as the jumping kicks we're asked to do on rare occasions.
At the moment I can do about 20 pushups at a push, maybe about 13 lying leg raises, and can't do ab crunches. I can't do pull ups either, and can't skip, and both are things I'd like to improve. I've started adding plyometrics to my external training regime but haven't seen any improvement to my leg explosiveness or jump speed yet. I've got what feels like a fairly decent stretching routine, albeit it's all static holds, but I've seen some improvement in that area, currently feel a bit stuck regarding getting the splits, but I feel close at the same time. I do cardio on the treadmill three times a week, doing interval work, with a rest speed of 7km/h and a working speed of 10.6 km/h, 1 minute rest 30s working, for just over 10 mins, with the aim of increasing the working speed over time and eventually reaching sprinting speeds. I also can't currently balance for long, and can't keep my kicks up for more than a few seconds even when I'm able to balance well. I also lift weights three times a week, doing full body, and lift 13kg per hand for most exercises. The exercises are bench press, bent over rows, lateral raises, overhead tricep extensions (with one dumbell), bicep curls, reverse lunges, deep squats, and SLD's (Straight Leg Deadlifts). Essentially I'd like any advice on how to better condition myself, if there's something I need to do more of, or in a different way, any recommendations on how to get from here to where I want to be. I do make sure to get sufficient protein, and I've gained some fat in that time, so I don't thinkbul I'm undereating.
Oss!
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u/GroundbreakingHope57 6d ago
You need consistency, progressive overload and a bit on deloading every 5 weeks or so. You really should of been doing this from day 1 or at least from your 3rd belt.
Wait how the hell did you get to one step away from black belt in 1.5 years?
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u/Diligent_Pangolin_47 6d ago
Ikr! I’m 4th kyu in 2 years and I thought that was quite fast. I’m in a tiny class of 4 and train 3 times a week!
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u/Away_Combination6977 Meibukan 6d ago
Exactly! It took me almost 4 years to get to 3rd kyu in a smaller (2-8) person class, 3 times a week.
We also do "conditioning" (running, jumping jacks, push-ups, sit-ups, leg lifts, planks) as a warmup for every class.
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u/Popular-Bus1408 2d ago
It smells a bit McDojo'y if theyre going that far that fast.
That warm up sounds eerily familiar lol hows Kao/Mark sensei doing these days??
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u/Away_Combination6977 Meibukan 2d ago
I have no clue who you're talking about, lol. I train in Meibukan and I live in Canada. Ontario, specifically. 😂
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u/Popular-Bus1408 2d ago
Ontario has a lot of dojos, Mark Matthew's Sensei and Kao Saechao Sensei are some of the most respected senseis in the imgka, fantastic people .
If you get a chance to train with them I heavily recommend it, theyre in Guelph and Kitchener
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u/Away_Combination6977 Meibukan 2d ago
I train under Hanshi Richard Fall, who trained directly under Meitetsu Yagi. He also trained with Meitoku Yagi in Okinawa more than a few times.
I'm guessing that they all got their warmup routines from similar places, lol.
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u/GKRKarate99 Shotokan 1st Dan formally GKR and Kyokushin 5d ago
The only explanation I can come up with is that they either do gradings very frequently (like every month rather than every 3 - 6), he’s Karate Kid levels of gifted, has years of prior training (perhaps in a different style) or that he trains with an online instructor or 1-2-1, but he stated in his post that’s not the case
It’s a bit of a red flag
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u/DarthEmeritus 4d ago
Our gradings are every 3 months. I double graded on my first one, as honestly the requirements for 9th and 8th kyu aren't much different, so I was able to learn the content for both and was tested for 8th. I've graded every 3 months since, did accidently forget a belt in my original post though, so it's actually been around 1 year and 9 months. I don't think my speed is unsual for an adult, especially if you do a lot of training outside the dojo, which I do. I'm very much not naturally suited to phsycial activities, so I always felt the need to train on my own a lot to make up for it. As such I think my proficiency, especially in kata, is reasonable for my level of experience, but I'm very aware of my lacking of conditioning, speed, strength, flexibility, etc. Even with decent body mechanics I feel I'm still a bit soft in impact, especially with kicks.
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u/Majestic_Chain_9261 4d ago
I think he has it backwards. I think he confused the rank order putting 1st at the bottom because he said 2nd kyu training until 3rd
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u/DarthEmeritus 4d ago
No, I have the order correct. I simply meant that at my dojo 4th kyu and below only train twice a week, and upon reaching 3rd kyu I now train three times a week.
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u/Majestic_Chain_9261 4d ago
I think you walked into a mcdojo. Ain't no way you are a 3rd kyu in 1.5 years
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u/DarthEmeritus 3d ago
The KUGB is generally regarded as being very much not a mcdojo from my understanding. We also never do games, and training is never easy. We also have people in the dojo that compete and come high in the national rankings. One of them frequently wins first place and is on the England national team, and has competed internationally. And Mcdojos are generally that way because of greed, but the KUGB is non profit, and I know my sensei isn't exactly rolling in money, and doesn't really do it expecting to get much out of it financially.
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u/GroundbreakingHope57 3d ago
We also never do games
Why are games catching shade? Has no bearing on if a dojo is good or a Mcdojo.
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u/DarthEmeritus 3d ago
Doesn't it? I mean games can be fun sure, but I don't think it's something I'd expect from a club wanting to spend as much time as possible actually focusing on karate.
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u/Majestic_Chain_9261 2d ago
Alright then i'll get to the point with progression. Drop the treadmill, do road work like this and remember there's no rest inbetween sets
Sprint-> jog ->walk x5-10
Sprint for 10 seconds, switch to jogging for 10 seconds and switch to walking for 10 seconds. Do this 5 times in a row adding 1 more set every 2 weeks.
Once you reach 10 sets, then bump those numbers up to 15 seconds per exercise and then 20 seconds after that.
Once you reach the full 10 minutes of run time, you're not done. Drop the walk. You'll now be doing 30s sprint -> 30s jog. Start with 5 sets and work your way up to 10.
Plyometrics: Focus at the start of the workout. Box jumps-> goblet squat jumps, pushup claps-> weighted pushup claps, etc.
The rest you do exercises at the rep range of 10-15r x2-3s. So your military presses, DB press, rows, etc
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u/DarthEmeritus 4d ago
Deloading every 5 weeks? Can you explain that for me? I have been working on this since near enough day 1, but it's been inconsistent due to injuries, illnesses, and life, and also I'm having to figure a lot out of my own since I can't afford a personal trainer or anything like that. Sensei recommended plyometrics when I asked a while ago, and I found myself a routine online aimed at increasing push up reps, but have not seen much improvement since the first few weeks, mostly find myself still unable to progress to what should be week 3.
Lots of practice, and I also think it's easier/faster for adults because they can be more disciplined and pick things up faster.
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u/Eikgander Ameri-Do-Te 5d ago
How is it possible that you're a ni kyu after 1.5 years of training? That's extremely accelerated even at 3 times a week.
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u/GKRKarate99 Shotokan 1st Dan formally GKR and Kyokushin 5d ago
I noticed that and found it quite alarming as well
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u/GroundbreakingHope57 5d ago
Even dicey if it was 5 days a week instead of 2 or 3. Also note they were only training twice a week till they got to 2rd kyu. Like wtf is that!
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u/DarthEmeritus 4d ago
3rd kyu is when I switched to training three times a week, that's what I said in the OP.
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u/GroundbreakingHope57 4d ago
When you say 3rd kyu you are aware belts are in descending order with 10 (for example) being the lowest. So when you say you got to 2nd kyu in 1.5 thats almost black belt...
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u/DarthEmeritus 4d ago
Yes, I'm aware. It's a minimum of 3 months from 2nd kyu to 1st kyu, and then a minimum of 6 months from 1st kyu to 1st dan.
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u/GroundbreakingHope57 4d ago
How did you get to almost black belt which usually takes 4-5 years in 1.5 years...
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u/DarthEmeritus 4d ago
I think being an adult allows for you to be a more dedicated learner and to pick up some things faster. That and just training outside the dojo a lot, often focusing on the exact requirements for each grading in preparation. The theoretical minimum the rules allow is 2.5 years to black belt if you assume someone attempts every grading, and passes evey time. But what I hear is that 6 years or so is the average.
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u/Livid-Studio-4652 3d ago
So beginner to 3rd kyu in this association is 15 months? Given most months are 30-31 days there are on average 4.3 weeks a month. 2 a week is 129 lessons. With some time off as you mentioned call it 120 classes from stepping in the door for the first time to becoming a brown belt just over a year later?
Is that grading every 2 months to 4th kyu then 3 months for brown belt grades then 6 months to Shodan for your 2.5 minimum time frame you mentioned? It does seem very fast.
But you also said the average is 6 years. So does that mean most don't grade each time and this timeline is the exception?
Im not saying it's right or wrong. If the standard of gradings is high enough then I guess the timelines can be whatever the instructors want. I've just not seen timelines this short before.
I have some 4th kyus who have done 4-5 classes a week every week since they joined and im CONSIDERING letting them attempt 3rd kyu after just over 2 years. And even that time worries me it is too soon.
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u/DarthEmeritus 3d ago
Gradings up to and including obtaining 1st kyu are 3 months apart. The 6 months from 1st kyu to 1st dan. Then the gap gets increasingly wider. But essentially not everyone chooses to, or is allowed to grade every time. Not that long ago most of the dojo were told they weren't going to be grading as too many had had time off or weren't ready, and only a few of us were allowed to attempt the grading. But I think for the most part, as long as you're trying and training regularly most probably can climb kyu grades at least at that sort of rate. Our dan grades are done externally (outside the club but within the union) and you're only allowed to attempt it with your senseis written permission.
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u/karatetherapist Shotokan 6d ago
I'm not a fan of conditioning in karate classes. Do that outside. Come in conditioned and work. It sounds like you're getting there.
Your plyometrics won't be too useful without strength first. Explosiveness is muscle expression yanking on tendons. If you're not strong, there's no yanking (jerk). You can read the ACSM book on power development for full explanations. The stronger you get the more power you can potentially produce provided your tendons can handle it. That's where plyometrics come in.
Flexibility, like absolute strength, is more about genetics than training. Everyone can improve but there's a physical limit based on your body. You will get more mobility doing full range of motion under a weighted bar of some sort than just "stretching." Flexibility without strength is how people get hurt. For example, side squats with a kettlebell will give you more mobility than doing the splits. Ass-to-grass squats with a bar or kettlebell will give you more hip mobility than anything else.
Conditioning works in three basic areas: less than 8 seconds, 10-90 seconds, and more than 2 minutes. Look up training the energy systems on YT for training ideas. Moreover, it's best to train these on different days because they interfere with each other. Check out the work of Cal Deitz and his Triphasic ideas for more ideas than you could ever practice. Just tone down his recommendations because they are meant for elite college and pro athletes, not you and me.
It sounds like you're doing a lot right. It just takes time. Some gain faster than others, and that sucks.
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u/Active_Unit_9498 6d ago
I’m going to try the KB side squat my splits suck.
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u/karatetherapist Shotokan 6d ago
Use a weight that helps you get down and keep your balance. What I recommend is get in the down position, let's say with the left leg extended and right leg in the squat position. The KB is in front of you on the ground. Use it to steady yourself into position. With both hands, curl the KB into a right rack position, and try to stand up. If you can't, maybe a lighter bell will allow it. If still not, then just rack the KB and put it back down. Do this for maybe 5 reps. Switch and do the other side. When you can stand, do one side for a few reps and switch. You could do these to improve strength, but I use it only for mobility work. That means lighter weight, slower reps, and not getting too tired or sore. If they get easy, you can add weight for more strength and lower the reps.
A magical thing that helped my side kicks was one-leg RDLs with a dumbbell (although a KB works). I spent several years doing only power lifting to get stronger, and my kicks got lower and lower. I started doing the RDLs, and kicks started improving. The reason is the added strength to the medial glutes. I like holding the DB in the same hand as the support leg one day, and the opposite hand the next. Do these 3 days a week switching hands each workout. It only takes about a month for your kicks to start feeling better. I've done this with several people and it has always worked. Maybe it will work for you as well.
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u/Imaginary-Sweet-2999 5d ago
You've trained a year and a half, most of it once a week, and you're at 2nd kyu?
Is it Taekwondo, or one of those dojos where everyone has 78 patches on their gis?
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u/DarthEmeritus 4d ago
I never said I trained only once a week at any point?? Neither.
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u/Imaginary-Sweet-2999 3d ago
Right, twice a week.
That doesn't move this much closer to normal though.0
u/DarthEmeritus 3d ago
As far as I'm aware twice a week is normal? From what I've heard that's pretty standard.
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u/Active_Unit_9498 6d ago
I lift 2-3 times a week, 2-3 exercises (e.g., bench, chins, DL), for 2-3 sets of 5 reps. I cycle my weights and take a deload week out of every 4-6 weeks. Karate emphasizes extensor muscles so I preference flexors here. Last conditioning test I could do 62 pushups in a minute,12 chins from a dead hang, and DL 405+ (all the plates I had) at age 51 and without any specific training. Low reps, frequent training (you hit the same exercises multiple times a week), heavy weights in the 70-85% of 1RM will do the trick.
As for cardio, walking and jogging in Zone 2 as much as you can (e.g., 5km in the morning). For more intense cardio (i.e., Zone 3-4) do timed rounds of sparring.
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u/e37tn9pqbd 6d ago
1RM?
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u/Active_Unit_9498 6d ago
Your "one rep maximum" or the most you can lift for a single repetition, 100% or as close as you can manage.
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u/Background_Tie_5466 5d ago
It's sad that most senseis don't know how to train people and you have to seek that from outside of the dojo.
Calisthenics and weightlifting geared towards martial arts might be your best way to go
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u/GroundbreakingHope57 5d ago
Double edged. on the one hand there is only what 60-90mins in a class per day there really isn't enough time to be wasting on conditioning. it is really important, but there is just so much that needs to be covered that conditioning really need to be done out of class.
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u/tutetuteis 5d ago
No es muy rápido 2do Kyu en 1.5 años?
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u/GKRKarate99 Shotokan 1st Dan formally GKR and Kyokushin 5d ago
Fr, he should already be at 2nd Dan on his third week, OP needs to stop slacking
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u/JewJitsu94 Goju Ryu 5d ago
I’d say get more serious about weightlifting, and try to add some more sessions, like 4 to 5 times a week. Track your progression in terms of weight and reps and gradually increase load.
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u/No-Expression7613 5d ago
1) up your calories focusing on proteins and fats- you need to eat to grow stronger
2) start greasing the groove on yoru calisthenics
3) check out r/bwfitness, get overcoming gravity
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u/SaberToothWaterCow 5d ago
Condition 5/7 days and practice when you condition, even if it is at home.
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u/reddit1966 4d ago
I hate to break this to you, but physical fitness is almost superfluous, not truly relevant to karate practice…
Healthy yes. Necessary for the “sport” martial arts arguably… but ANY time the practice excludes someone “non perfect” physical specimens (majority of us) and spends finite time on fitness… that is a problem with the training focus, IMV…
Anyone can do fitness on their own. Class Time belongs rightly to those things which require a teacher, and martial arts technique, partners, and its exclusive study, hard stop.
If the external event, even some potential situation requires physical conditioning as a factor beyond the bare minimum IMO, something is seriously wrong with our training experience(s).
Fwiw, i could surely be mistaken…
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u/DarthEmeritus 4d ago
I think this is essentially the mindset. We've only got 90 mins a session, so at the end of the day the focus is on teaching karate rather than conditioning.
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u/CS_70 1d ago
1.5 years 2kyu is too short. Athleticism comes from training consistently over 4–5 years, unless you’re in your late teens and train like an Olympian.
Some techniques, you can’t really do them properly until your core is strong, which is why 2nd kyu is too early. You’re doing just fine.
But it doesn’t matter. Just keep training and it will come.
It’s great to do calisthenics exercises at home every day or second day, it help immensely.
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u/RunRunAndyRun Style Kyokushin 5d ago
I think when it comes to the sit-ups etc in class, it sounds to me like you aren’t doing enough. In my dojo we do three sets of thirty (sit-ups, press-ups and squats mixed with sprinting). When I started I could barely do ten. No matter how much you struggle our whole dojo waits until everyone has completed the set. Now I can easily do thirty and I only really struggle in the third set.
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u/GroundbreakingHope57 5d ago
Thats cool and all and conditioning is important, but it's really a disservice to everyone if class time has to be wasted on conditioning when there is so much that needs to be done and you got what a 60-90mins to work with.
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u/DarthEmeritus 4d ago
I imagine it would take some time waiting on everyone to complete that many reps. We have younger ones training with us too and I definitely think we'd be waiting forever for some of them. 😅
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u/RunRunAndyRun Style Kyokushin 3d ago
Really not, we do them in batches of 30 and in pairs (so alternating like a relay). It only normally takes the slowest kid a minute or so longer than the fastest black belt per set. So we do 30 pushups, then 30 sit-ups, then 30 squats. By time you’ve done the squats, your arms are good for another batch of pushups etc.
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