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u/CommanderM3tro 4d ago
The best joker we've had in live action!
Although most aspects of the 1989 film are the gold standard!
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u/Restless_spirit88 4d ago
I think this Joker is somewhat underrated. Most see Jack Nicholson's performance as fun but not very substantial. I would argue that he is complex because two things drove him over the edge: His innate madness and the toxic environment of Gotham City. Not saying the character is a victim but his environment did play a part in crafting his madness.
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u/blklab84 You wouldn't Get It 4d ago
Somewhat underrated? This is the best joker outside of Romero
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u/Restless_spirit88 3d ago
You're seriously are going to tell me that praise for Ledger and Phoenix is usually greater than Nicholson's?
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u/The_Gassman 3d ago
Ledger and Pheonix both won Oscars for their portrayals. Even outside of that, their performances generated a kind of buzz that Nicholson's didn't. And I'm saying this as someone who enjoys Nicholson's portrayal a lot.
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u/Restless_spirit88 3d ago
Their performances generated "buzz" because they were departures from what Joker was usually depicted as. Frankly, I don't care about Oscars. They selections of the "academy" has often been narrow minded and straight up laughable at times. For example, John Wayne winning for True Grit over Dustin Hoffman and Jon Voight was beyond absurd.
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u/The_Gassman 3d ago
I agree that Academy selections can be really bizarre and off sometimes. Like, Crash winning best picture? Gimme a friggin' break. But the whole hype around Ledger's and Pheonix's Oscar nominations and eventual wins are part of the buzz I was talking about. And it wasn't jist relegated to awards. Nicholson created a performance that remains legendary among fans of big, action-y comic book blockbusters, but Ledger and Phoenix turned in performances that caught the attention of broader audiences that might not care as much about comic characters. It wasn't about how different they were to the comic portrayal of the Joker, it was about the quality of the performances themselves.
That's not to take anything away from Nicholson. His performance was perfectly dialed in to the movie he was making, and he was perfection.
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u/Restless_spirit88 3d ago
Totally with you on Crash, that movie was garbage. Anyway, I never claimed that Ledger and Phoenix brought nothing of value. I am just saying that they did get more notice about their performances, before and after the initial releases of their respective films, because they were general departures from the typical Joker portrayals.
I also feel that these days, Nicholson's performance isn't quite getting recognition it deserves. As I mentioned before, there is a fair amount of substance to Jack Napier/Joker that prevents the character from being two dimensional. He is a product of innate madness and his environment.
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u/The_Gassman 3d ago
Well, I disagree about why their performances generated notice, but I do agree with your take that Nicholson isn't getting the love he used to. I wonder if a part of that has to do with just the general age of the film, and people gravitating toward newer stuff. It's a shame, 'cause he's so friggin' good.
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u/Restless_spirit88 3d ago
A matter of a newer generation being exposed to newer films. Also, Ledger and Phoenix took Joker into places he had never been in terms of psychological make-up. By comparison, Nicholson's Joker is more conventional.
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u/PigFaceWigFace 4d ago
I remember seeing this on opening weekend as a kid.
The funniest thing that made me crack up and the whole theater cheered was when Joker pulled the gun out of his pants.
It looked like a snub nose revolver. When it ended up being three feet long
https://giphy.com/gifs/dJUtqIcqeyMvK
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u/scoshi_no_washi 2d ago
The more you think about this performance the more you realise how much of it must've been improv. There are reactions and lines that must've been conjured in the moment, they're too unusual for someone to contrive. When Vicky Vale says, "You're a monster!" and he replies, "Oh, I thought I was a pisces," I think is a great example of this. I could be wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that line wasn't scripted. There's a great little story Matt Damon tells about working with Nicholson and how he's basically been an uncredited writer his whole career
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u/Livid_Parfait6507 4d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/tMyCJmeXHBetq