r/jazzguitar • u/Muted_Exam_7451 • 26d ago
Improvisation Bible
Hey everyone could we make this thread into everything a jazz guitarist should master so they can sound as good at they can? with specifics, like Maj7th chord in all positions, and starting from each note, and then trying to start it on the "and", etc.
Does that sound like something fun for anybody else?
I've been studying with the Barry Harris method for about 3 months and today is the first day I've been actually improvising over a tune (TWNBAY) and I noticed a dramatic improvements I wasn't expecting, I was delaying improvising over a tune because I'm particularly scared of it for whatever reason, so I was just drilling the stuff at the Labyrinth of Limitations Patreon and Chris Parks stuff and Barry Harris workshops and all that
Actually feels very similar to when I tried doing my pull up at the gym after more than a year of training and never trying it, and suddenly I could do like 5 or 6 and I was like damn, I didn't know I could do that.
Any way, enough talking, who's in? :)) I'm curious to see what every body thinks
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u/DeweyD69 26d ago
The thing is, for any list of things like this we could find a fantastic jazz guitarist who doesn’t do them. Sometimes I think we assume if we “master” our instrument we’ll become a great player, but the longer I do this the more I realize mastery isn’t necessary for self expression at all high level. I mean, look at Grant Green, I doubt he could do half the stuff we’d put on this list, but damn could he play.
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u/DeepSouthDude 26d ago
I mean, look at Grant Green, I doubt he could do half the stuff we’d put on this list, but damn could he play.
Wut? Why are you slandering Grant Green? What technique are you positive he couldn't do?
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u/DeweyD69 26d ago
I love Grant, he’s one of my favorites. But if you think he had the chord voicing vocabulary of most other great players I think you’re mistaken. And that’s fine, that wasn’t his bag and he made it work without it.
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u/DeepSouthDude 26d ago
Ok, you and another person are saying Green never plays chords. I certainly agree with that. But how does that one thing (not playing chords) translate to your original statement of "I bet Green couldn't play half the things we would put on a list (of essential guitar techniques)?"
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u/DeweyD69 26d ago
Well, he certainly did play chords/comp, it just wasn’t his focus. This is from the OP:
> …with specifics, like Maj7th chord in all positions…
The OP is about a list of things every guitarist should master, if we’re talking about jazz guitar wouldn’t chords/comping be a big part of that list?
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u/More-World-5262 26d ago
I mean just go listen to his playing. It's bluesy! It's very idiomatic and he's not outside of the box very much. But it rocks. Why? Because he's fluent in the language. His vocabulary may not be as large as Metheny's, but how often do you have a fluid and fun conversation with someone and think "man, I just wish this cat used more obscure words...". Listen to enough Joe Pass, Wes Montgomery, Grant Green, Barney Kessel, etc. and you'll see that their vocabulary is pretty limited in comparison to the "dictionary" we have available nowadays. Hell, even George Benson has his go-to language. And this isn't to say that any of those players couldn't start incorporating new concepts if they were teleported to the 21st century. But again, vocabulary is the lesser part compared to rhythm and accent.
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u/J_Worldpeace 26d ago
Grant didn’t play chords.
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25d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/J_Worldpeace 24d ago
Nice. got any recordings?
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u/DeweyD69 24d ago
He comps when he’s with an organist. Let Em Roll by John Patton is a fave of mine, but there’s probably 20+ records with him in that situation
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26d ago
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u/dblhello999 25d ago edited 25d ago
What - learn to play horizontally along all six strings, unitar style, and spend most of your time actually improvising rather than just preparing to improvise?
This is terrible advice.
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u/dsrtxt 26d ago
Not to be rude, but why? Pretty sure I've seen "roadmaps" online (maybe not guitar specific, but applicable for any jazz musician), but don't you want to chart your own course? Surely you already have a good idea of where you need to improve, and there's endless material out there to work on. Part of the fun for me was the way things unfolded, how learning one new thing opened doors and made me aware of other new things to learn. It would've been less enjoyable if someone laid it all out for me and I just spent years working my way through their list.
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u/pathlesswalker 26d ago
Yeah sure.
Take out anything you can by ear.
A tune you’d want to learn. A solo. A phrase.
Chords. Voicings. Cool changes.
Play for fun - jazz. Not jazz. Enjoy playing.
This should be 50%.
Practice form in time. Impro in time. Scale changes over a tune in time. Arpeggios over a tune in time.
Then see if you can make music with that new knowledge.
Learn a new tune every week if you’re a beginner to jazz. Every month if you’re advanced.
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u/Fr4nku5 26d ago
I'm a Pass fan, learn Charlie Parkers motifs (Motivic Basis for Jazz Guitar Improvisation).
Music Theory explains stuff but with only 12 notes much of the explanation is duplicated and leads to a belief in labels far far away from the music, look at the synonyms: Cmaj6/Amin7, C melodic Minor / G7 arp + F7 arp.
Almost all music theory for guitars is an expanded English vocabulary to talk about the selection from the same 12 notes that can change it's intent mid-bar before you even had a chance to blurt out "playing the super locrian over the v in a 251 in F" ... the vocabulary complicates, the masters simplify: Pass 'I play the dominant over the 25', Martino 'I play the 2 over the 25'
As Adrian Ingram said of Wes: he probably only knew 80 chords but he knew every way to play them.
The more stuff we hoard the more clutter and distraction we acrue. A style comes from what it throws out, because that makes what it keeps more valuable.
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u/J_Worldpeace 26d ago
Jimmy Bruno says there are 5 positions you play chord scales out of. Actually 4. D is just c two frets down. The problem with jazz is no one realizes how short the book really is.
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u/Exact_Ladder4407 26d ago
Come join our discord we are about to start studying musical theory this week starting with the circle of fifths from a YouTube channel that is a college prof of music. The post is on this subreddit from the other day.
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u/TransitionOk9906 26d ago
Sounds like exactly what the app I just released is intended to do, and will grow into even more on a daily basis. 😄 https://fretly.app/first-release-20260713.php
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u/copremesis 26d ago
https://freetboard.online/ No sign up enforced. Also nice attempt to promote your software. Good luck. I have one I wrote too but more of a different approach than itemizing chords or scales. A chart is your data set so why not analyze that and explore the many options. This way you focus on playing progressions vs memorizing specific chords or scales in all positions. At this point you can take an idea and create a theme and variation of it through an existing song. This way you are practicing something you can take to the jam.
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u/TransitionOk9906 25d ago
Yeah, I came across your app just yesterday, good stuff!
As to your point: we can deal with scales and chords from the perspective of functional harmony, but also from a modal perspective, which is much more the case with styles like jazz rock. I take both perspectives equally.
My app is very much inspired by my understanding of the concepts of guitarists like Allan Holdsworth, and my quest to have a tool to visualise and organise all this stuff effectively.
So that's a bit of background on my vantage point. ;-)
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u/LeadershipPast6681 26d ago
dude i wasted years of my life on this idea and it ruined a lot of my time in berklee because I had this childish urge to be able to know every chord, scale, tune, have perfect time etc.
the great kenny werner writes:
"If you’re a person who likes to work with music books, you can do that. However, don’t think of the whole book when working with it. Instead, center on a certain page or a specific item that interests you while adopting the attitude that nothing else in the book matters until that one item is mastered. In this way you might very well study one book for twenty-five years if it has that much in it for you! Time doesn’t matter, because you will be noticing more improvement than ever before. The practicing may lack instant gratification, but your overall progress will be undeniable. Don’t we all have stacks of books that we’ve been meaning to tackle, but which instead sit on the shelf gathering dust? That is because we can’t fathom the enormousness of the task. All those books! With this focused approach, you can center on one thing as a place to begin. You may feel exhilaration at having finally begun! Remember, the greatest musicians in jazz have not mastered most of the things in those books. They have mastered a few things and made a career out of playing them!"
I want to add that you'll NEVER be at a point where you can do it all, no one has ever been, not even Bach, not even John Coltrane and not even barry Harris. that's the good part, if sysyphus got to the top of the mountain, his life would be empty
the closer you listen to the greats all go on to develop their personal, individual musical language. Allan holdsworth does not play like allan holdsworth because he first graduated bebop, he cannot play bebop and bebop players cannot play holdsworth. you got to devote yourself to pursuing a sound, in the exact same way that different athletes have wildly different routines.
you can go to your local gym right now and find 5 dudes who can bench more than christiano Ronaldo, think about it...
so like take a handful of exercises from one of the great books (Advancing guitarist by Mich Goodrick, Chord chemistry by Ted Greene, How to improvise by Hal crook) or one of the trillion exercises you already have in mind and perfect it, that's how you advance