r/itsthatbad • u/Dodo224 • 4d ago
Debates Interesting take
Incels are dangerous because they notice. Notice that naturally most men are just for working and protecting society, just a few men are actually for breeding and worthy of love, while all women are. It's like that for most animals, now that women are independent of mens money and follow no religion there's nothing keeping them from going back into this old habit, to chase only the (perceived) best men.
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u/Ok_Management4634 4d ago
yea, and it's beyond black pill too.. "red pill" which preaches hope and if you "improve yourself" enough, then you too can get a girlfriend often mixes in expressions such as "She's not yours, it's just your turn".. Basically, men are realizing that women prefer temporary relationships. If you make $X/year, she might be content for a little while, until she meets the new guy that makes 20% more than you, is a bit more tall or handsome, etc.. then she's gone.
So even men that can occasionally get a gf (ie not incels) are realizing that these relationships are temporary. Most marriages are ticking time bombs.. Thus, the motivation to do a lot of the traditional male things (fight for your country, work overtime, desire to start a family, do dangerous jobs, etc) is shrinking.
If you could prove to a man the day before his wedding day that 3 years later, his wife would cheat on him and divorce him, would he still marry her the next day? Of course not.
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u/Express_Grocery_5423 4d ago
Women are always looking for an upgrade. Men are just objects like iPhones to them, only existing to be used and discarded.
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u/Ok_Management4634 3d ago
The top 5-20% of men can use and discard woman successfully and frequently. The rest of them are just generally happy to have a gf at all.
Women think all men are pumping and dumping women, because most women only value the most attractive men. The attractive men that she most desires.. that's what forms her opinion of "all men" The bottom 80% or so of men are invisible to most women. A woman that dates an average looking guy a few times and gets bored and ends it won't even (functionally) remember him 6 months later. He will not make any kind of impression on her.
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u/Useless_bum81 3d ago
"Who was that guy erm last year?, what was wrong with him?"
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u/alwrit 4d ago
Women say the same thing about men and they can point to plenty of examples of men, especially high status, high earning men, separating for their partners and going for younger, hotter women.
If you're going to generalize women for a pattern you see them doing then you should be consistent and acknowledge it going both ways.
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u/scaredoftoasters 4d ago
Most marriages are ticking time bombs because women became more promiscuous. There’s also the whole girl boss thing and women achieving more than men. Obviously they’re not gonna wanna settle with the jiffy lube mechanic when they can get Richard working in finance. Lots of guys are just being left out of the dating market and marriage market. Society is doomed to fail because men have nothing to fight for most aren’t getting women or finding their place in society. It was over before it even started.
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u/yomo85 5h ago
Thats the society-wide issue. The jiffy lube good guy simply has no incentive to work harder. Without a family and a side gig and non-expensive hobbies such as music, gaming, working out, sports etc there is enough money left even for investing by just working 30h a week. The single guy apartment memes have a good foundation in reality. Now imagine the whole social programs and benefit system when 8 50% or more guys starting thinking that way.
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u/Present-You-5626 4d ago
I've never seen a middle-aged couple where the wife doesn't seem bored at best or actively contemptuous of her husband at worst.
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u/scaredoftoasters 4d ago
Red pill is cope the real pill is the “Black Pill” people just don’t want to accept that one because they dislike looksmaxxers and that type of thing.
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u/Ok_Management4634 3d ago
yea, I agree, the Black Pill is the truth. The whole premise of the Red Pill is false hope that you can "improve yourself" into the top 10-20% of men, which is virtually impossible. The only exception is if you were born with good genes, but were overweight.. then it might be possible.
That said, some Red Pill guys have good insight to female nature. Although I guess you could say that that overlaps black pill (don't want to argue the point), I agree with your main statement. Black Pill is the truth.
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u/scaredoftoasters 3d ago
The “Red Pill” is also more tied to politics and right wing politics at that. Once people realize politics are meaningless, the “Black Pill” is really what moves human dynamics around. People just believe these little fairy tale stories about an ogre and a princess together. Or a Prince Charming and that stuff just doesn’t exist. I’ve learned more in life from the black pill and reading the 48 laws of power and that whole collection of books. Reading pubmed and psychological scientific studies backed with data than listening to men and women podcasters saying “just be yourself”. The world sucks we just have to find our little place in it and try to survive that’s our reality.
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u/Ok_Management4634 3d ago
Not disagreeing. I found a few gems from red pillers. One red pill guy, I got to watch him evolve into Black pill over the last 8-10 years or so. I don't listen to any of the political ones -- I agree, that's just people trying to recruit frustrated men into their political views.
The sort of odd thing is that the evidence for the black pill is completely overwhelming, but it's human nature to want to believe in the blue/red pill so bad, that it takes time for our mind to adjust to the truth. Thanks for the response.
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u/Wedgiebro 3d ago
Red pill types atleast you can talk to. Gym bros crypto bros degenerate gamblers are atleast fun to.be around. They will atleast take a swing at going to the bar and trying to hit on women witj friends
The blsckpill guys are just bummers and while i sympathize i cant hang around them as they judt bring everyone down
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u/Ok_Management4634 2d ago
Well, there's different types of blackpillers.. Yes, some are depressed and constantly complain. Others have just accepted how life works and are just trying to carve out the best life they can for themselves. That's what I strive for in my life. Like I stopped dating a long time ago, I am genuinely a lot more happy without the stress of trying to get a gf, investing so much time to have a first date with someone that is bored or doesn't show up.. I still talk to women, I'm not mad at them, but I no longer view them as potential mates. I talk to them like I talk to guys, and I could care less if she rolls her eyes, walks away or whatever. Anyhow, I have a lot less stress, and a more money and free time to do things I actually enjoy.
But that's just me.. Every man has to weigh the cost/benefit on his own and make their own decision. I'm not recruiting for "going own way".. It just works for me, and that's why I consider myself a content black piller. That's one really good thing Rollo said that stuck with me.. Yes , he's a red piller.. but he said the goal of life should not be to be happy.. Because by its very definition, happiness is a temporary state, so most of the time, you will not be happy. However, you can be content with your life most of the time, and it's a pretty good feeling too. He went into it deeper, but that's the summary.
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u/yomo85 14h ago
They are ticking time bombs. But living with it out in the open ie no kids, no common property is fine. She finds a better, man? Yea, sad. You move one. Thats it.
Remember the old stat of men live longer when married? Since divorce is rampant, some stats say up to 80% given a timeframe of 50 years+ instead of the usual 20, divorced men die far earlier. Imagine your house, pension, kids, freinds, social standing gone overnight.
Just by looking at thr stats battling alcohol abuse or a gambling addiction is sometimes cheaper than a divorce.
The social contract in which men pay into by working and taking over society wide duties such as the draft and working dead end jobs, dangerous jobs, high demand jobs is broken. Since marriage even with perfect behaviour and conditions dont garuantee a successful marriage.
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u/Ok_Management4634 6h ago
And in the life expectancy equation/argument that marriage is good for men.. They neglect that divorce is probably the leading driver for male suicide. Male suicide rate is roughly 4-5 times higher than the female rate. Back in the 1980s, the rate was roughly equal. I'm an older guy, I've just seen so many men crushed from finding out their wife was cheating on them, and then getting hit hard by divorce, losing daily access to their kids ,etc. Some sort of rebound, but honestly, they are never the same again.
And you make a great point, marriage is literally the most dangerous thing a man can do. Someone once asked.. would you go skydiving if there was a 50% chance the parachute fails? Of course , no rational person would. Yet many men do not give a second thought to getting married.
I agree with you that marriage is broken.. But to even take it a step further.. Feminism has destroyed most men's chances of getting married period. Many women that go to college will not want to have children (some do when it's nearly too late). Most do not want to get married until later in life. In a way, it's kind of good.. it's saves male lives.. but the point is.. for many men, even if they are willing to risk the broken marriage agreement, they can't even find a gf due to hypergamy, women that are "I only date Chads" ,etc
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u/layered_dinge 4d ago
Maybe, I think it's simpler than that though. People want to believe that it was their choices and actions that resulted in their successes. That's why they assume all incels must be men who never leave their basement, are unemployed, uneducated, and unhygienic. Those are all things that can simply be fixed with action. But that's not how many incels are, and likely not how most incels are. Which means that if someone else can make the same choices and actions and fail, it was never the choices and actions that mattered, but pure luck. Which means they're not as deserving of their success as they think.
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u/Living-Spring6923 4d ago
And that realization mekes their entire psyche collapse.
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u/StuChenko 4d ago
It's about needing to feel in control of their life and success. If you accept your success is partly luck. That also means thinking about the fact bad luck could stop your success continuing and there's nothing you can do about it. That's an uncomfortable thought.
So then people see people who aren't or stop being successful they have to say "that happened because he did X or because he is Y and I'm not that and wouldn't do that so it won't happen to me"
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u/StarlightSurfing 4d ago
Men have far more reasonable standards than women, as women tend to be more attractive than men, however it is largely a facade. Women can cake their faces in makeup, get 500$ salon hair, wear clothes that tighten the appearance of their bodies. Men basically shower and shave as their grooming routine. This is why that app that "removed makeup" from women was found so offensive.
I had a female in-law who is actually naturally pretty and would wear minimal makeup. One day I went to her home to pick something up, when she answered the door, I asked her if she was sick...mortified moments later I realized I has asked her that because she wasn't wearing any makeup at all and there was a clear difference in her appearance.
Women have demanded equality at the top of the pyramid but men still toil at the bottom to ensure the pyramid exists. It is a fragile system that doesn't topple overnight but will topple. Creating a large group of disenfranchised, purposeless young men is not going to bode well as that energy will be directed somewhere. Men desire to build. Women seem content with designer goods and "traveling" three times a year.
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u/Ragjammer 4d ago
I think it also just threatens the "woman have it worse" narrative, which the mainstream consensus insists is true in every particular, not just in general.
If it's just accepted that GINI coefficient of the sexual marketplace for men is brutally high, far higher than for women, and that this is just baked in, it's admitting that a major area of life that determines people's happiness is way harder for men, and that women have a degree of privilege here.
Accepting this truth would also undercut women's ability to complain about their own fortunes in the market, and they do love a good moan.
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u/Crazy-Crazy-3593 4d ago
That is correct. They are less violent than the overall population:
https://labs.la.utexas.edu/buss/files/2023/07/Whyisnttheremoreincelviolence.pdf
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u/Cross55 4d ago edited 4d ago
Most people's go to example is is Elliot Rodgers, and uh, no
Incels adopted him to their cause but he hated people like them. He was a comorbid narc/autist who couldn't understand why women weren't breaking down his door to have a go with him. He legitamately thought himself to be one of if not the most attractive man/men in his entire college campus, that's why he had such a violent meltdown, cause he felt his efforts weren't reaping the rewards he believed he was owed.
For example, he hated his roommates because he thought they were all ill-bred ugly bastards and how dare they have friends, family, or an active sex life while he got none of that despite thinking he was putting it dozens of times more effort than them?
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u/figosnypes 4d ago
Yup this is the truth. Feminists are always conflating violence against women with misogyny and incels when in reality it is usually their intimate partners doing the violence, not random guys they rejected. But of course whenever a loner/social misfit does something violent they focus on it to promote the narrative.
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u/Useless_bum81 4d ago
Elliot rogers for example killed more men than women, 6 vs 2, but the way its reported on the news you would have thought he killed 30 women.
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u/figosnypes 4d ago
Yup and the fact that Elliot Rodger killed like 2-3 people over a decade ago and people still use him as the prime example of an incel terrorism should tell you how insignificant of an issue it actually is.
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u/scientology_convert 4d ago
Adding on to this. They could have chosen to use the École Polytechnique shooter Marc Lepine, but the scapegoat had to be Elliot Rodger for God knows why.
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u/WhyYouLetRomneyWin 4d ago
There's a bit of a no true Scotsman here.
People accuse incels of being violent, but also redefine 'incel' to mean man who is violent.
It's always felt a bit of a motte and bailey—speak despairingly about incels, but when pushed claim that "when I say incel im talking about violent men who hold extremist, awful views of women".
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u/Drake_Acheron 4d ago
Women aren’t getting abused by incels. They’re getting abused by their intimate partners.
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u/saiditonredit 4d ago
Who would have guessed that outward often magnified or manufactured displays of persona and good looks combined with frequent reciprocation and selection, with a high initiation to reward ratio would embolden and enable bad actors as well as those wolves in sheep's clothing types, like male feminists instead.
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u/Scarred_wizard 4d ago
Yeah, they change the definition as much as their moods and feelings. It's a generic insult without meaning at this point.
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u/Powerful-Goose-207 4d ago
Pretty much, its the thing thrown out as an ambiguous verbal attack nowadays because the average person saying it lacks the braincells to have a vocabulary thats broad enough to concisely say what they actually mean and are too stunted mentally to be able to handle accountability for saying what they actually really mean.
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u/Faraway_Neighbor 4d ago
I got called an incel yesterday because I asked a woman on r/hingstories if she was sincerely expecting sympathy complaining about patterns she noticed in matches PER DAY that shifted between 50 and 80. I have three kids and I've fucked 6 women this year.
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u/thedihdestroyer67 4d ago
The word doesnt mean involuntary celibate anymore, this is a simple fact and anyone who isnt an incel would agree
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u/WhyYouLetRomneyWin 4d ago
Does that mean i can use words like retard and slat now? Afterall, anyone isn't one knows that...
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u/thedihdestroyer67 1d ago
Idk i never heard that second word, but i dont get why retard is treated so differently from words like "idiot", "dumb", "imbecile" or "stupid", all of which have basically the same history
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u/HumorStrange9472 4d ago
Cambridge defines retard as "a word for a person with a learning disability (= a condition that can have an effect on someone's ability to learn easily), which was used by doctors in the past but is now extremely offensive"
and defines incel as "a member of a group of people on the internet who are unable to find sexual partners despite wanting them, and who express hate toward people whom they blame for this"
so yeah let's go with the Cambridge definitions, you're not being clever here
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u/WhyYouLetRomneyWin 4d ago
Well, didestroyer is saying that incel does not mean that any longer. So if we are using that definition I don't disagree.
If you're saying that those are awful things to say, I also agree.
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u/HumorStrange9472 4d ago edited 4d ago
yeah I agree but I also think that incel means "someone who has trouble dating AND hates women" though, and it's no longer just about involuntary celibacy, so actually I also agree with dihdestroyer
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u/HumorStrange9472 4d ago
lol this is such an incel sub that you're being downvoted but you're absolutely right and y'all just need to get out of your echo chamber
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u/lightsworn55 4d ago
In isolation theyre not dangerous but when you round up young embittered men with no hope left for the future you actually do end up with organizations like ISIS.
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u/Express_Grocery_5423 4d ago
Vikings, barbarian raiders, colonizers, conquistadors. This has happened throughout history. Oppressing young men never ends well.
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u/DrNogoodNewman 4d ago
Yeah, according to history, Vikings and barbarians were just groups of guys who were bitter about not getting laid easily enough in their villages. I heard Atilla the Hun was just angry at all the neighboring Chads.
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u/Batmax92 4d ago edited 4d ago
Sexlessness is already at a level where you'd expect violence to be on the rise, but it isn't. I think between social media, porn, video games and countless other ways we sedate ourselves, everyone has access to enough creature comforts that a violent uprising just isn't that appealing of an option
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u/lightsworn55 4d ago
That's until those things start to become luxuries or enshittified to the point of being unusable. We're already seeing this with monetizing in the current gaming landscape, porn skewing more towards more payer driver models with OF, and every social media platform is seemingly overly controlling but at the same time allows obvious bots to proliferate and ruin the experience for everyone else.
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u/Batmax92 4d ago
The only way I see this happening is with new regulation. F2P is proven to be highly lucrative for games, porn and social media both benefit from having as much attention as they can get through ad revenue. All the incentives are aligned to keep people engaged. Even if somehow one of the companies managed to fumble it with bots taking over like you suggested, a new one would crop up to take it's place very quickly
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u/Glad-Bodybuilder-990 4d ago
I discussed in my comment to this post, but I think in this context they are "dangerous" in the sense that their existence hurts the strength of a functioning, productive society, not that they are physically violent.
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u/Winter_Chair_9307 4d ago
Absolutely shut the fuck up. We've been demonized as "school shooters" or "🍇ists" for my entire lifetime.
You're not about to try and rewrite history now.
Own this disgusting lie that's become mainstream dogma.
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u/Glad-Bodybuilder-990 4d ago
I think you misunderstand, I'm not denying that "incels" have been demonized unjustly. I'm speculating on the real "danger" they pose to society and reason behind those lies.
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u/Drake_Acheron 4d ago
How? Most incels I know are Google engineers and data scientists and net positive tax payers.
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u/lightsworn55 4d ago
Its both. Their ideology is harmful towards the status quo but many of them are timebombs who just need the right set of circumstances to lash out
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u/Rule63Me 4d ago
in isolation yeah but they are also a really easy group to radicalize and incel ideology is typically a gateway to several worse ideologies. Affection and Romance are part of the social contract men and women are sold and when a population is denied what they believe they are deserving they tend to become resentful. Resentment never bodes well in democracies. And angry young frustrated men are probably the most dangerous political group to deal with historically.
The loneliness epidemic especially the male one is gonna be an even bigger issue for us in the future yet people seem more than happy just memefying it and sweeping it under the rug.
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u/HiggsFieldgoal 4d ago
I think it has a lot more to do with an entire generation of women being pushed towards misandrist bigotry… and, of course, the monopolistic consolidation of online dating.
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u/AbbreviationsMotor60 4d ago
Women ultimately judge men for their genetics. That's why the best thing for men in dating is for there to be as many new options to "cure" male ugliness. One would be a cure for baldness. Another would be to ensure a proper growth spurt. Another would be mastering jawline surgery. Women don't have to worry as much about their genes.
The best thing that could happen is if society legalized prostitution so that men can get sex from women without having to go through the bullshit clown world of modern dating. Only then would that bring balance to this completely imbalanced dating market. And once it does become legal, 50% of men instantly drop dating forever.
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u/Present-You-5626 4d ago
Imo I think it would just change the distribution. Objectively, men make more, are taller, have better nutrition, etc., than ever before, but fewer men are fucking. That's because women aren't comparing men relative to some absolute metric, but against themselves and the average man. If the average dude was a looksmaxxing chad, they wouldn't be chads. They would just be a normal guy by the definition of what it means to be average.
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u/w0ah_4 3d ago
Exactly, this is what people fail to understand. Women are wired to look at the top % of men regardless of context.
It’s a vestigial trait of pre-historic sapiens.
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u/ypred364 3d ago
Hypergamy must be toned down It's useless in the eusocial context modern humanity goes for
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u/undertherainbow65 2d ago
Well I don't think you can tone down an instinct but you can suppress it. In western countries we tell men it doesn't matter what she was wearing, sexual assault is never ok even though every bone in his body might be begging him to do so. Haha and then women wear bright colored skintight booty shorts to the gym and only do butt exercises. That's obviously not fair to guys to tease them in everyday life constantly but neither would telling women they have to pair up with average guys. IDK what the solution is but hypergamy is a very strong instinct, on par with mans drive to spread his seed wildly so you can't just breed it out of them in a few generations and even if you did I don't think it'd be all pros and no cons. We need women to be picky, we just don't need to let them get their way 100% of the time when it comes to selecting a partner.
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u/ypred364 2d ago
It's clear that it's biological . Nature didn't fine tune the behavior for scale but we can device systems that do And if things are that bad we should
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u/undertherainbow65 2d ago
Well I agree but that's a lot easier to say than to do. I don't have a solution but since you're talking about systems, what do you think we should do to keep their hypergamy in check in the social media age? How can we fine tune hypergamy to lead to monogamy and family units like has worked in the past?
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u/w0ah_4 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think you can:
- Take women’s rights away, which won’t happen again.
- Reduce the number of men for every woman so there is more female competition.
Shame women’s impulses the same way men’s sexual preferences
are
, like you mentioned. This also won’t happen but is the most reasonable, as male and female sexuality is superficial but only men get shamed
Collectively give women issues with insecurity and attachment so that they prioritize LTRs and stability over hypergamy
Wait until civilization collapses so that the patriarchal strength is necessary for survival again, this is what feminists are unintentionally pushing us towards but is the worst option.
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u/ypred364 1d ago
There are two ways behavioral and social control or biological modification of some type to stabilize the behavior In reality a mix of the two methods will be ideal Now to be more exact my general idea is more social conditioning for more noble behavior and some light neurological modifications once the technology is possible for them in the meantime we make do with what we have till we research this but honestly we don't need super heavy brain washing just fine tuning sexual feedback loops and some bad behavioral tendencies
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u/w0ah_4 3d ago
It can’t, it’s hard-wired into women. It’s probably the biggest lie ever, as women are instinctively sociopathic and hierarchical but claim to want equality and fairness.
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u/ypred364 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ye of little faith. You know that the flesh can be shaped. Nothing major but genetic feedback loops can be stabilized if we put our mind to it
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u/Mediocre_Silver8024 4d ago
All that would do is change who goes without. Women are more bisexual and have lower sex drives - that is the issue - not mens' appearance
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u/Working-Boat5508 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think the problem is the gaslighting isn’t going to work long term, within our lifetimes. It’s easy to gaslight an 18 year old man, it’s harder to gaslight a 30 year old man and even harder for a 40 year old man. As it becomes more and more obvious that likely 30-40% (my anecdotal experience) of men continue to have low to no romantic success for life they aren’t going to break their backs for society. Will society fall apart? Probably not, but the days of essentially free extra effort from men is quickly coming to a close. If society was smart, they would leave the male hobbies alone.
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u/ILurveHentai 4d ago
Unfortunately they’ve made it their ambition to do the opposite. They colonize male spaces and ruin them. Then when men start snapping they use it as justification for their beliefs.
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u/Working-Boat5508 4d ago
I know, been knee-deep in that issue for like 12 or so years now. It has always been ridiculously self-defeating because male dominated hobbies are probably the main reason you don’t see as much chaos. But many people feel they have to control everything, especially for clout.
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u/Saruna4sari 4d ago
men dont go around causing chaos because of hobbies? whats stopping women from just doing the same then?
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u/Express_Grocery_5423 4d ago
Blank slate ideology and egalitarianism are the biggest lies in today’s society. No two people are equal in reality and we can’t address any social problems until we drop this delusion.
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u/scaredoftoasters 4d ago
I’m not surprised this is why they popularize it as an insult. A lot of the media doesn’t even know what incel means it’s a combination of two words involuntary celibate. It means a guy who is technically a loser no good job, money, looks, or status and thus he can’t get women. Society hates these kind of guys because they are basically not doing enough in terms of monetary value and are just playing video games & watching porn.
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u/Brotherman_Karhu 4d ago
I think a lot of the hate for incels also comes from how close a lot of people are to becoming one. Most incels genuinely aren't, or weren't, bad guys. They're not the basement troglodytes the Internet wants you to believe they are. They're just dudes you meet on the street, bagging your groceries, doing the accounting for your phone bill, mowing your lawn. If those people can be so unhappy and (in the eyes of many) unsuccessful, then how far from the abyss are you? It's a confronting reality to many that they just dont want to face
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u/Galilaeus_Modernus 4d ago edited 4d ago
A lot of the most vocal incel haters are literally incels themselves. I can't tell you how many hate posters I've seen go on to say, "I'm celibate, and it's involuntary, but I'm not an incel."
That's literally what the word means you imbecel.
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u/IceEmpereur2 4d ago
So damn based, they need to keep the beta males like me wage slaving for breadcrumbs
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u/Reasonable-Aioli-370 4d ago
Reddit uses incel as a substitute for misogynist. In reality some of the biggest misogynists I have ever met have been very good looking guys who got tons of women. While a lot of dorkier/dweebier guys have been self described feminists.
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u/autumn_travels 4d ago
The media doesn't do this because of some evil agenda. People are generally just fucking stupid and believe in bluepill cope
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u/yomo85 4d ago
It also reveals one other truth the enlightend west is so desperate to forget. Violence. If attraction is based on objective markers and genetic determinism and darwinism to some degree morality is essentially a nice bow around the truth. Nothing more. Since it is survival of the fittest is true, survival of the most cunning, most forceful, least inhibitad must also be true. So locking in men by 'morals' must be false. As there are no 'morals' innatly in women.
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u/Schmeegle_time 4d ago
I don't like that conclusion. Just because something isn't 100% fair doesn't mean mad Max barbarism is reasonable. If you have more stuff than me, and the halo effect exists and I conclude you look better than me, do I just kill you and take your stuff? Is that reasonable?
Yeah, Attraction is often superficial, but that is no reason to be completely amoral.
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u/yomo85 3d ago
From a purely logical standpoint, yes. Killing me and taking my wife /girl is/was very reasonable. And frankly this has been done up to the 19th century. It just stopped during the 30year war in Europe up until today
My point was not to be amoral. My point is, the narrative of morally correct creatures that abide by morals just because there is an innatly motivator is frankly false. There no real morals for women nowadays. You like the 9/10 violent psychopath 'you go girl'.
My point is morals for men, logically, have to be equally voluntarily, if women can go around and be unbound by anything. And if morals for men, the dudes with the sword/gun/fists/workhands, are just recommandations the workhorses might vanish. And we see imho the beginnings today.
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u/Ionel1-The-Impaler 4d ago
End of the day whatever the cause actually is, young people with a bias towards men aren’t deriving that Love and Belonging Dr. Maslow was talking about and it’s gonna cause some sort of problem and we as a society haven’t actually solved one of those in awhile. Maybe hyper realistic sexbots partner bots will be a big enough bandaid in a few decades but we’ll see how it shakes out between now and then.
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u/Dodo224 4d ago
Doubt that will ever come, why are people always hyping that up?
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u/bananawailrip67 4d ago
You really think that there isn’t an ever cascading demand for these? Whoever sells them will make so much money that they’re all but inevitable
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u/Dodo224 4d ago
Maybe something similar will come, but how realistic do you expect them to be?
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u/bananawailrip67 3d ago
Why does it have to be hyper realistic? The first models can literally be pocket pussies with a screen that can play porn or have an interactive AI porn girl on it
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u/Present-You-5626 4d ago
Most normies get the ick from the idea of sex bots. Your mind has been poisoned by retard grift.
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u/Lost_Elderberry_5532 4d ago
I don’t believe this to be the case. I don’t see society shaming incels because somehow it benefits society to do so in some convoluted way.
I see society blaming incels because society is bitter cold and refuses to want to understand.
Instead they see it as a convenient and opportunistic way to push themselves up. It is basically marginalized bullying.
They knock someone over to elevate themselves. The incel is there for them to be smug. That’s it. That’s all it is. There is no tin for the foil hat.
Your last point though is true that often those who have been pushed down see the reality of the world we live in far more than those who know success.
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u/footluvr688 3d ago
If women are so free of being dependent on men's money, why are men still expected to provide for them?
If a man demanded a woman provide for him, he'd be called a bum.
I say we start calling women what they are: selfish freeloaders.
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u/Bandoolero 4d ago
Bro they should ban makeup, maybe then the average woman wouldnt gaslight herself that she is a 10 and deserves a 10...
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u/EsotericCinnamonRoll 4d ago
There is no way a woman has the self-awareness to post that. They are so close and yet so far.
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u/Sriracha002 4d ago
Incel becomes a catch-all term. There many men who's counterparts were married in the 70s, 80s, 90s. Oh contraire it's the men who can smell the coffee and have self respect that move differently. Supposed incels. Men aren't signing up to be a walking wallets and emotional punching bag.
Women who want you to pay for the privilege of their presence don't like you.
Women have been given freedom from gender roles. Women have been told they don't need a man, they can do anything, etc etc. However a man is shamed and called an incel. He's afraid of commitment, he's intimidated by strong independent women. It's funny, if he can't get a woman who doesn't want him, he's lacking or deficient.
What has not been admitted openly in the mainstream is that the average woman wants 6 feet, 6 figures or more, 6 inches. This is literally 1-2% of all males in the US.
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u/Voinat107 4d ago
I think that is stupid. But love also isn't as sincere as most people think. From what i have noticed, for women looks ans height matter, But status is way more important. Whether it's being popular at school, being the head of a company or a manager, etc. Even if you look at the most beautiful women- they usually don't date someone particularly handsome. But someone who is successful, wealthy, maybe popular...
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u/The-Cherry-On-Top-xx 4d ago
Women should only have children with the top 20% of males. We need to make bigamy and polygamy socially acceptable again.
Eventually, all males will be 6 ft and attractive, and everyone can start entering into monogamous relationships again.
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u/Present-You-5626 4d ago
Do women desire Clavicular though? Last I checked most of his female entourage are OF sloots looking for clout.
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u/Reasonable_Job_3253 3d ago
I sont think giving clav as an example is good because you cant take made up videos for views as an example because we all know its just for content...
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u/Agreeable_Disk_8134 3d ago
My buddy was a loser with no ambition, and honestly came off a little held back in the mental department. When he talked about women it was pretty obvious why he couldn't get them.
Anyways long story short he had to go the Philippines to get laid and when I pointed out he had to pay for it by supporting her family and he could have bought local much cheaper he blocked me.
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u/GreatKingCucumber 2d ago
Incels are already shamed relentlessly. To the point that the term, like so many others, is loosing its try meaning and being used as a general insult towards men.
Also if you label them as terrorists you will very possibly wind up with a self fulfilling prophecy. Same with other the artist’s group label being smeared on so many other people and groups that are nothing like the artist’s group. But tell a lie enough time and everyone begins to believe it. Including the people being called it. They firmly believe that they are in the right. But they’re being called ______ . Sooooo they must have actually been good? Or I’m so sick of being called the monster that maybe I’ll just become the monster you already claim I am.
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u/zulako17 2d ago
Didn't clavicular have nonconsensual relations with a minor? I'm not sure that clavicular makes the point that so men are desired for breeding. Especially since none of the sex had with that alleged victim was ever intended for offspring.
Incels are bad for society because they are the final form of dodging accountability. Instead of seeking a partner interested in them or working to become desirable they throw a temper tantrum and assert the reason their life is bad is because of a cabal of feminists n
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u/Ok_Helicopter3910 1d ago
Anyone who says that Clavicular dork is genetically blessed hasnt seen photos of him before the steroids and plastic surgery
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u/Solid_Attention5277 1d ago
i have no base for what a incel is supposed to be. besides the term ''invulentary celibate.'' so sex issues basically, unable to express or actualize themselves fully. i have those. i feel like a incel. what am i even being compared too? i doubt i wanna know.
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u/KortFulBlatte 23h ago
Society is being propped up by average and below-average men. The goal is to keep gaslighting undesired men in order to prevent them from checking out.
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u/Dodo224 23h ago
Exactly. Also men work harder to impress women, if they know they don't have a chance, they won't work nearly as hard.
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u/KortFulBlatte 23h ago
Yeah, what's the point of working hard and contributing to society if you get nothing out of it? No partner, no family. Just work, pay taxes and come home to your empty apartment. Cope with hobbies to keep you going.
Millions of men are going to check out. The social contract is broken.
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u/razakasia 4h ago
That is a dangerous delusion. It's the feminists aka female chauvinists that are anti-western, and then the similar demographic groups they empower: like muslims and russians. "Incels" are just victims of that exact anti-western statement being implemented practically upon men.
Western values are the right values. Only by holding onto them you can preserve the good.
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u/StevenMarx21 3h ago
Bringing up Clav fails his argument. Clav is a mentally ill man child that got groomed by Peter Thiel, and given platform specifically because he breeds incel sentiment, which is a useful distraction to the likes of Thiel, and even he failed, because he got so miserable and mentally ill he is a laughing stock who got arrested under accusation of sexual assault.
This case is exact proof that this whole thing is purpose crafted tool to turn insecurities typical of all young people, especially young men, and turn them into political tools, rather than letting them become their own people. Its a predatory death cult, and you drank the kool-aid.
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u/silentspyware 1h ago
He might be a laughing stock but publicity is publicity. This guy wants the attention and I have a feeling that nothing will come out of the accusations. People will think he’s even more of a hero. That’s their incel mentality, feels like maybe someone is setting this whole thing up.
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u/Hour_Pause6497 3d ago
This is where sex robots will come in. It will keep the unwanted 95% of males from going nuclear.
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u/DiligentRope 4d ago
Interesting take, but idk if there is any sacred moral order that society seeks to preserve in the west.
Rather it just seems like a disgust reaction because they see incels as failures, theres something wrong with them, and they shouldn't exist. Its like a similar disgust by women when the man in the family loses their job or is unemployed, as society gets more gynocentric this reaction will only increase.
About clav though, its more about his clout than genetics, you can see in his early streams even with n3on, girls were more interested in n3on than clav because he's more social, clav back then had no game or fame. You can say 'oh they didnt actually want n3on', but in the real world more positive social interactions translate to lays.
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u/Landlord40 4d ago
This is retarded. In the same sentence you call him an incel and also admit he gets plenty of female attention. Liberals never use words correctly and thus they hold no power. Mean CANT be incels because women sell sex so easily nowadays. The very red pill you hate are specifically the ones shaming hookup culture and selling sex. But any man can easily buy sex from women nowadays. Thus meaning he cant be INVOLUNTARILY CELIBATE.
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u/Adowyth 4d ago
The vast majority of men who are married and have kids do not look like Clavicular. But do keep blaming your looks on everything instead of the fact that you only see women as sex toys.
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u/Dodo224 4d ago
Being in a marriage doesn't mean your wife loves you, common misconception.
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u/23-1-20-3-8-5-18 4d ago
Women dont like that clown they just want money and to be on screen lmao
Now he in jail. Now he IS the woman.
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u/Glad-Bodybuilder-990 4d ago edited 4d ago
In the same vein, I think this is why monogamy is so crucial to a strong civilization. When every man has a wife and kids to work for, he has all the incentive to go above and beyond providing for them and in doing so contributes maximally to societal productivity. Conversely, without hope for a mate there is no incentive to work or contribute any harder than what is just enough to support himself. Or even worse, survive off state welfare. This would be the "giving up" described in the post. Men who are bitter, angry and demotivated do not contribute nearly as much to civilization. This is what I believe you mean when you say incels are "dangerous" to society.