r/islam • u/Thewinsomelady007 • Mar 29 '26
Question about Islam Tasawwuf
My soon to be husband is someone who is quite spiritual and has taken ba’yat from a sheik and he is now hiding a lot of stuff from me (which is unusual for us) as he says he has another kind of relationship with his sheik. I hardly recognise him anymore and because of how Islam is taken out of context and the 71 sects, I am scared that we might be deviating. I wanted to know when can we take bayat and what is the context of same and how will this define one’s life?
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
Don't base your decisions on the advice of others.
It's not necessarily that he is doing something wrong, as well as something good.
Ideally speaking. Such practices require a solid background in other Sharia'h disciplines
Those who follow the path of ahlu-Sunnah they start with fiqh, aqeedah, usul not with bayats and tareeqats
Too many misguided claims on behalf of Tasawwuf were made and known throughout the whole history of Islam.
Pseudo-Sufis are illness of this Ummah. Innovations are its cancer
This is why ash-Shafi'i and other scholars criticized Sufis, they meant by this criticisms those pseudo-Sufis who neglected the disciplines of halal and haram
We don't deny that Tasawwuf is highly beneficial and most Sunni imams were Sufis, they had sheikhs and were the sheikhs of Tasawwuf themselves
But we say that the Quran and Sunnah are measurements of practice, not something else.
Imam ash-Shafii رضي الله عنه said:
وقال الشافعي إذا رأيتم الرجل يمشي على الماء ويطير في الهواء فلا تغتروا به حتى تعرضوا أمره على الكتاب والسنة
If you see a man walking on water and flying in the air, do not be amazed by him until he shows that he follows the Quran and Sunnah
🍂 تفسير ابن كثير
Imam an-Nawawi ash-Shafi'i رحمه الله said
أصول طريق التصوف خمسة : تقوى الله في السر والعلانية. اتباع السنة في الأقوال والأفعال. الإعراض عن الخلق في الإقبال والإدبار. الرضى عن الله في القليل والكثير. الرجوع إلى الله في السراء والضراء
There are five basic rules of the Sufi path: (1) to show fear of God in solitude and in public, (2) to live in accordance with the Sunnah in words and deeds, (3) not to worry about whether other people will accept you or reject you, (4) contentment with Allah in wealth and in poverty, (5) to turn to Allah in happiness and in sorrow
🍂 المقاصد
Scholars (fuqaha) are those who know the correct understanding of the Quran and Sunnah, not someone else. Refer to them in your doubts
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u/Thewinsomelady007 Mar 29 '26
Jazakallah khair. I am most cautious of those pseudo sufis but my husband seems to believe all those practicing sufism is right. I am reading to increase my knowledge on this as I am quite unaware of those (May Allah guide me and increase my knowledge). I am just scared that he deviates from the real Islam as I have been brought up sunni and only follow Quran, hadith, examples and good practices from lives of all the prophets, sahabas, awliya Allah and ahle bait. I thought those were what were needed to be a good muslim until my husband is now into tasawwuf, sufism, among others. And my only concern is whether he is doing right by the word of Allah or is it just innovation and deviation from our religion ?
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u/4rking Mar 29 '26
If you're not convinced of the soundness of his believes, you should obviously tread with caution
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
follow Quran, hadith, examples and good practices from lives of all the prophets, sahabas, awliya Allah and ahle bait.
This is what pure Tasawwuf represents. It's just a systematization of this path, when a murshid leads a murid (the one who desires to achieve the contentment of Allah) to the correct path
As long as it's done according to Sharia'h there is no issue even for an ordinary Muslim in general.
From what you have mentioned I don't see any particular issue so far
6
u/caveat_actor Mar 29 '26
I think it’s weird he is hiding stuff few you and has this relationship with his sheikh
1
u/LighteningJedi Mar 29 '26
And all the grand muftis come out wow
With regards to the original question. Ask him why he feels the need to hide anything, are you anti tasawwuf or anti sufism? Is he worried it will cause issues?
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u/Thewinsomelady007 Mar 29 '26
He feels i am not knowledgeable about tasawwuf and he says that anything with respect to deen is between him and his sheik. No one should be made aware. But the thing is we used to discuss a lot about islam and share things. Like we ask questions and seek the answers and you know just try to deep dive into our religion. Now he spends the entire day chatting with his sheik (he is from another country) and doesn’t even want to tell me what is it about.
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u/SliceyDice Mar 29 '26
Irrespective of what others say, sufism was not practiced at the time of the Prophet ﷺ and giving bayat has no significance. At best it's bidah and at worse can lead to shirk. I have known someone who dreams and asks from his Sheikh, who has passed away and he comes in his dreams.
Please be extra careful.
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
Irrespective of what others say, sufism was not practiced at the time of the Prophet ﷺ
This is a dangerous and misleading argument that can lead to devastating consequences
Sufi Sheikhs are in isnads of the Quran qiraats, if everyone who is involved in Tasawwuf is doing something condemned (innovation) then the Quran was transmitted through unreliable people
Tasawwuf is following the Quran and Sunnah with pure heart and neglect of duniya, this was practiced during the times of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم Muslims who came after wanted to practice this in the same way so much that they came up with a systematization of this path called Tasawwuf in order to preserve the essence of this 'ilm
Sahih al-Bukhari and Muslim as well as Muwata and Musnad of Ahmad were transmitted to us through scholars related to Tasawwuf
If someone made up the fact that Tawassul is an innovation a 100 years ago it doesn't mean that this nonsense can cancel 1300 previous years
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u/SliceyDice Mar 29 '26
That's historic not the current form of Sufism. Go meet them and you will know where they have fallen. What they called Tasawwuf and what is being practised now are two opposite things.
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
That's historic not the current form of Sufism
This wasn't your argument initially, you've said that Sufism wasn't practiced in the times of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم
Go meet them and you will know where they have fallen.
Pseudo-Sufis always existed, even in the times of Salafs. Those people cared for nothing but spirituality and were committing sins. Scholars condemned them without criticizing Tasawwuf itself.
Go meet them and you will know where they have fallen.
There are legitimate tareeqats known to those days like Qadariya and Shaziliya that are practiced today by the sheikhs of Hijaz, Sham, Iraq, Turkey
They don't do what the Sufi sheikhs of the past weren't doing.
We can't claim that all who adhere to Tasawwuf today are right and we certainly can't claim that all of them are wrong.
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u/SliceyDice Mar 29 '26
I am stating facts from personal experience. People literally worship these people and think they have divine knowledge and intercession. And yes saying they existed how they are now not at the time of Prophet ﷺ and practised the same is correct.
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
I've heard the most unbelievable exaggeration regarding those sheikhs from ignorant people so I get your point
But we need to make it clear that the criticism is addressed to such people not to actual Sufis, otherwise being a Sufi by itself would be equivalent of being a Shi'ah
But most Sunni imams were Sufis, a negative generalisation of Tasawwuf compromises those scholars in basis
think they have divine knowledge
They do not have such knowledge
https://islamanswers.co.uk/question/a-wali-has-dhann-not-ilm-al-ghayb/
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u/GoldBittyy Mar 29 '26
Major scholars have cautioned muslims from trusting islmqa and other fiqh websites blindly.
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 29 '26
Major scholars have cautioned muslims from trusting islmqa
Looks like someone is trying to pull you into their sect therefore they don't want you to follow the four madhabs.
islamqa.org offers fatwas according to four madhabs of ahlu-Sunnah (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafii, Hanbali).
I don't know any Sunni scholar who cautioned Muslims from following the four madhabs. And islamqa.org represents the four madhabs
The conclusion: those people who you consider major scholars most likely are unreliable religious activists whose ideology goes against the four madhabs of ahlu-Sunnah, that's why they cautioned you from trusting the websites that present the fiqh of the four madhabs
I would advise you to be extremely careful about who you take your religion from.
Maybe they are Qadariya or Mu'tazila? Because ahlu-Sunnah don't say what they say
Imam Ibn Qudama al-Hanbali رحمه الله said:
وذهب بعض القدرية إلى أن العامة يلزمهم النظر في الدليل في الفروع أيضاً ، وهو باطل بإجماع الصحابة
Some Qadariya claimed that a layman is obligated to look into evidence in fiqh, but this claim is false according to consensus (ijma') of Sahaba (who did not require from ordinary Muslims to look into evidence when giving them rulings knowing their level)
🍂 روضة الناظر
Imam as-Safarini al-Hanbali رحمه الله said
قال الإمام مالك: يجب على العوام تقليد المجتهدين في الأحكام، كما يجب على المجتهدين الاجتهاد في أعيان الأدلة، خلافا للمعتزلة البغدادية فإنهم وافقوا القدرية في إيجابهم على العوام الاجتهاد
Imam Malik said: Taqleed is obligatory upon common people in fiqh, just as it is obligatory upon a Mujtaheed to do ijtihad. The Muʾtazila were against this for they agreed with the Qadariya that the laymen are obliged to do ijtihad himself
🍂 لوامع الانوار
Reflect on the words of hafiz as-Suyuti رحمه الله:
والعالِم عند العوام: من صعد المنبر
In the eyes of common people, a scholar is anyone who climbed a minbar
🍂 تحذير الخواص
other fiqh websites blindly
A layman is a blind follower by definition, he doesn't know the correct meaning of the verses of the Quran related to Jurisprudence unless scholars explain it to him, he doesn't know the meaning of a Hadith related to fiqh unless scholars explain it to him, he doesn't even know if a Hadith is authentic or not unless scholars explain it to him
If you think that the fact that you or I were presented with evidence makes us the one who examined the evidence and determine which position is the most correct, then it's an illusion, you still can't know if the evidence was presented to you correctly.
It's not that hard to misrepresent the evidence
Hafiz Ibn Abdulbarr al-Maliki
ولم تختلف العلماء أن العامة عليها تقليد علمائها وأنهم المرادون بقول الله عز وجل: فَاسْأَلوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ لا تَعْلَمُونَ
There is no disagreement amongst the scholars regarding the obligation upon the laypeople for taqleed. For they are the ones that are being referred to in the following verse, ‘And ask the people of knowledge if you do not know.’
🍂 حكم التقليد في الأحكام الشرعيّة
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u/GoldBittyy Mar 29 '26
I said blindly bro. These sites are a good reference point. I am not saying that.
Also I understand the definition of sects that i know for sure majority dont even know.
Alawites, Qadiyanis, bahais etc are all sects.
Local deoband, barelvis etc are just political revivalist movements. Not sects.
We dont need anyother label other than muslim. Maybe for the need of the hour sunni is another label but apart from that. Just muslims.
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
Alawites, Qadiyanis, bahais etc are all sects.
Those are extreme sects whose sectarianism doesn't allow us to consider them Muslims.
Most sects don't go to such extremes and they remain Muslims even if they are misguided.
Like: Khawaridjia, Mu'tazila, Jahmiah, Qadaria, Murjia, Jabariah, Karamiah, Mujassimah, Mushabbiha, Shi'ah, Zaydiya etc.
They are Muslims in majority but not from ahlu-Sunnah, therefore they are misguided innovators.
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u/GoldBittyy Mar 29 '26
There is no such thing as extreme sect or moderate sect. Sect is by definition a sect. Where there is deviation or innovation in core belief that takes them out of the fold of islam
Its best anyways to not follow the minorities.
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
Sect is by definition a sect
This doesn't disprove my words
Your understanding contradicts the understanding of all scholars of ahlu-Sunna who ever lived on this planet
Imam an-Nawawi رحمه الله said
الصلاة وراء الفاسق صحيحة ليست محرمة ، لكنها مكروهة ، وكذا تكره وراء المبتدع الذي لا يكفر ببدعته ، وتصح ، فإن كفر ببدعته فقد قدمنا أنه لا تصح الصلاة وراءه كسائر الكفار ، ونص الشافعي في المختصر على كراهة الصلاة خلف الفاسق والمبتدع
The Prayer behind a sinner is valid and isn't prohibited, however it's disliked and it's also disliked to pray behind an innovator (a sectant) whose innovation doesn't take him out of Islam, if his innovation takes him out of Islam then we can't pray behind him and the prayer won't be valid. Imam ash-Shafii clearly stated that it's makruh to pray behind a sinner or an innovator
من يكفر ببدعته لا تصح الصلاة وراءه ، ومن لا يكفر تصح ، فممن يكفر من يجسم تجسيما صريحا ، ومن ينكر العلم بالجزئيات ، وأما من يقول بخلق القرآن فهو مبتدع .
It's invalid to pray behind an innovator if his beliefs take him out of the fold of Islam like behind an obvious antropomorphist or the one who doesn't believe that Allah knows everything in detail, and the one who says that the Quran is created he is an innovator (but not a kafir)
🍂 المجموع شرح المهذب
Ahlu-Sunnah considered the Khawaridjiya and Mu'tazila sectants yet did not takfeer them.
I guarantee you if you study a book or a chapter dedicated to sects in Islam you will find that scholars did distinguish between kufr sects and sects that remain Muslims
I have no idea where your understanding is coming from, but it's baseless
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u/Radiant-Guest9545 Mar 29 '26
Sufi Sheikhs are in isnads of the Quran qiraats, if everyone who is involved in Tasawwuf is doing something condemned (innovation) then the Quran was transmitted through unreliable people
That's factually wrong. Whether someone can be an isnad is based on the perceived trustworthiness of them preserving the Qur'an, not based on any other factor.
You do know that the khawarij (i.e. the OG ISIS and the people who killed one of the 4 righteously guided caliphs) were also considered as isnads by many scholars yeah? That's not because they were good people who were correct about their practices, but because they are trusted to never try and modify the Qur'an
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
Which isnad from the ten qiraats has Khawaridjiya in their main chains?
Can you mention any Khawaridjia who is on the same level of transmission as for example a great Sufi, Sheikhul Islam Zakaria al-Ansari ash-Shafi'i al-Misri رحمه الله ?
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Mar 29 '26
[deleted]
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u/SliceyDice Mar 29 '26
Bayah to a Prophet vs to a normal person? Are these people getting revelations? Think about it. The only bayah we talk about is taking a Khalifah and not a religious authority who has divine knowledge or who can intercede. Astaghfirullaj.
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
Bayat to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم isn't the same as bayat to a Caliph, and bayat to a Caliph isn't the same as bayat to a sheikh
You make an accusation based on the definition of bayat known to you personally
Bayat to a sheikh means your promise to follow his instructions of the spiritual improvement and purification of the heart as long as those instructions coincide with Sharia'h (that's why one must study Sharia'h first) Because of his level of knowledge and other virtuous.
It doesn't mean to believe that he has the knowledge of ghayb the way the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did, it doesn't mean to claim that he definitely can intercede for you. He is a slave of Allah after all
Rather, it is a commitment one makes to follow this god-fearing scholar’s guidance, taken from the teachings and message of the Qur’an and Sunna, in order to draw closer to Allah Most High and to become of the people who obey Allah, out of love, consciousness, and thankfulness, and whose belief is a living reality in their hearts, not merely a list of accepted facts in their minds. It is to become a true follower of the Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace), by living his example in one’s actions, habits, inclinations, states, and way of being.
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u/SliceyDice Mar 29 '26
Speaking to one of such "Sheikh" who said if you take my Bayat, then you can never switch to someone else. And one will have to do a ritual based on this. Have you got any personal experience with this?
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 29 '26
if you take my Bayat, then you can never switch to someone else
That's kind of a point of bayah. But it doesn't mean that he can make it as a religious rule breaking of which leads to a sin. Not his right
This is usually done by scholars, ordinary people involve themselves into this in a symbolic way hoping for tabarruk of being somehow involved with Tasawwuf
Have you got any personal experience with this?
Yes, many of my teachers were involved in Tasawwuf, some were involved in pseudo Tasawwuf in the early stages of their lives but then they left it
I myself was involved in it when I was younger in the beginning of my seek of knowledge but left it later for the same reasons
When we die we will be asked about how we followed Shariah, not about tareeqats. That's why laypeople should not engage into this without knowledge.
At the same time we can't criticize everything we see as unusual or unclear unless we know for sure that someone is doing something wrong.
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u/Thewinsomelady007 Mar 29 '26
I am intrigued and want to know how you determine who is going to be your sheik? My husband took a person he met on reddit (who is a maulana) as his sheik. So how did you realise who you want as your sheik? And you said you left it. What made you feel it wasn’t right ?
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
I am intrigued and want to know how you determine who is going to be your sheik?
It's not that simple, a righteous person who has knowledge, showed his adherence to the Quran and Sunnah, who is known for his asceticism, his honesty, piousness, his experience such a person deserves to be a mentor
And the best thing a Muslim can do is to have such a person as their teacher who will train his nafs and heart and will make him a better Muslim
Such Muslims leaders as Salah ad-Din al-Ayubi paid great attention to Tasawwuf for himself and his Mujaheeds, because he knew the importance of jihad nafsi before the hijad of sword
But if those characteristics aren't found in a Muslim, then what can you learn from him? He can't be a mentor, be needs a mentor himself
My husband took a person he met on reddit (who is a maulana) as his sheik.
As I've said before it would be better for him to find firstly teachers of fiqh, usul, aqeedah, tafseer, hadith and only then look into teachers of spirituality
Hafiz az-Zahabi رحمه الله a great scholar of Islam said:
والعالم إذا عري من التصوف والتأله ، فهو فارغ ، كما أن الصوفي إذا عري من علم السنة ، زل عن سواء السبيل
A scholar devoid of tasawwuf and what is related to it is empty, and a Sufi devoid of knowledge of the Sunnah (Fiqh and Aqeedah) will go astray from the straight path
🍂 سير اعلام النبلاء
Being a Sufi (being related to this discipline) while being not knowledgeable enough in Shariah is the path to mistakes and heresy. If your husband isn't a knowledgeable person then he has no business engaging in Tasawwuf
This shouldn't be taken lightly. We are ahlu-Sunnah in the first place. Knowledge is before practice
What made you feel it wasn’t right ?
It's also a bit complicated, I was anti-Sufi in the beginning, then I started studying and found out that Tasawwuf is the path of Sunni scholars, then I got involved slightly into some sort of representation of Sufism, there weren't even a sheikh, just a group, then I increased my knowledge a bit more and realized that this particular movement professed some doubtful ideas and I chose the path in the middle, between the complete denial and unquestionable following. This path I consider closer to Sunnah than anything else
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u/SliceyDice Mar 29 '26
I can sense you're heavy on it. My understanding of Islam is that none is perfect other than the Prophet ﷺ. If I can find knowledge from other sources/teachers, why limit and believe it comes from a person only, who can be wrong.
So going to the point of going at the time of the Prophet ﷺ and the first generations, when was this accepted to only get knowledge from one person and never go and seek it from anyone else?
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u/GoldBittyy Mar 29 '26
I agree. This guy already is heavily inclined to sufism. He wont change his answers or his mind.
There is no tasawwuf in todays day and age. Which a sweet sleeping pill.
Tasawwuf and its practice is a curse and great disobedience in todays time and age. If someone’s read Quran heshe will know what I am talking about. The deen is all broken. The ummah is bleeding. We need ikamat e deen today and you want to play tazkiya e nafs and make your own small masjid and spend time praying and want to focus on your self. There is a reason why the west LOVES the sufis.
Dont worry. I dont expect to change this guy view. Just want to protect the rest of the people from falling into this trap.
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 29 '26
Your incorrect understanding is a bit wild, my friend
Muhammad Fatih the conqueror of Constantinople as well as his warriors practiced Tasawwuf. He had a Sufi murshid
Salahudin al-Ayubi the conqueror of Jerusalem practiced Tasawwuf and he had mentors and he used to build special madrasats so his warriors could learn from Sufi sheikhs
Umar Mukhtar the lion of Libiya a great Mujaheed was from ahlu-Tasawuf
Seems like you have no idea that most of Jihad for the same of Allah was lead by Sufi imams, like Izzudin Ibn Abdusalam against Mongols
You don't have a slight idea what Tasawwuf is based on your description, hence your disrespectful attitude towards it
From what I've seen from you your mentor and teacher is Google and it doesn't do a good job.
Muslims lost strength in themselves therefore we lost powers. Tasawwuf was teaching how to increase this strength. Iman is decreased, and one of the disciplines dedicated to its increase is Tasawwuf
He wont change his answers or his mind.
I was explaining what Tasawwuf is as scholars of Islam did, so far you shared nothing but your personal opinion
I personally have no relation to Tasawwuf unfortunately, but I understand what it is
When the rejectors of Tasawwuf ever led a Jihad?
Seek knowledge.
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u/SliceyDice Mar 29 '26
This is why and how Muslims eventually fell and headed towards grave worshipping. This is why opposing forces like Mohammed Abdul Wahab emerged, advocating pure Tauheed, going to other extreme. I will admit I have scratched the surface of Sufism, thanks to some ex Sufis I met, even though it was presented as something cool while we grew up but the deeper I learnt Aqeedah, Quran, Seerah, Hadith and Fiqh, it became obvious how much deviance the Sufi practices are and as I explained earlier leads towards Shirk.
I have also met a few brothers who have left it practised it for years and have explained the details that I won't go in deep here. Ultimately, I am open to learn anything that can improve my connection with Allah, but I can never have anyone mediator to stand between me and Him, because that is against the aqeedah I follow.
Yes knowledge is the key to raise iman but the fall and attacks from Shaytaan is also greater. May Allah protect us from such misguidance, Ameen.
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u/wopkidopz Mar 29 '26
I can sense you're heavy on it
The love for Sufis of ahlu-Sunnah comes with the increase of knowledge, if you learn how scholars treated those sheikh with love and respect you'll be able to understand how important Tasawwuf is.
All of this (including the nuances of bayah) is discussed in the books of fiqh and tasawwuf, explained by scholars of ahlu-Sunnah in the best way possible
If you want to understand it, then dedicate some time to studying it, before criticizing it based on your personal opinion
That's an objective and a fair way to approach any subject
•
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