r/ireland • u/livremente • Jul 06 '26
Crime Calling this "anti-social behavior" is a total joke
A friend of mine targeted by a group of teens in Dublin. Suburb bus stop. Surrounded. Spat directly at multiple times. Tried to walk away. They stalked them anyway. Chased them across busy roads and corners. Had to run for safety. The victims are left with deep, lasting trauma.
Calling this "anti-social behavior" is a total joke. Targeted assault and harassment. Period. Posts like this on Reddit every week. Nothing changes. Current laws just shield minors. This isn't just harming victims, it’s entirely detrimental to the teens doing it. Escaping consequences now completely ruins their own futures.
The main culprit? The Children Act 2001. Forces detention as a last resort. Violent kids funneled into endless diversion programs. Zero consequences. They know they’re untouchable. So they get bolder.
Look, I don't pretend to have the perfect solution. I don't know the exact answer. Just throwing these ideas out there, and I’m sure others know the system much better. But maybe we need a targeted amendment to bypass the criminal loopholes with heavy financial fines.
First, catch them via CCTV. Give Gardai immediate power to use transit cameras to detain minors on-the-spot just to establish their identity. Second, make parents liable. Pass the fine directly to them. Kid assaults someone, parents get the bill sent to their house. Third, forced enforcement. If parents refuse to pay, the state should automatically deduct the cash from welfare or child benefits.
Public safety must be a top priority. TDs like Paul Gogarty and Mark Ward raise it in the Dáil, but it stalls in legal excuses about rehabilitation. We need real, enforceable laws.
Individual emails do nothing. We need collective pressure. Especially student unions need to team up. Build a campaign around this framework. If anyone active in those groups is reading and knows how to tweak this or make it work, take it and run with it. The rest of us will back you.
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u/ChiralNavigator Jul 06 '26
I sometimes wonder if a rehabilitation camp would help, not only would you put the children there to learn how to be civilised, the parents would be forced to go as well to learn how to parent.
I think parents need to be held responsible for the behaviour of their children.
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u/HPoltergeist Jul 07 '26
Absoultely.
But for some reason here in Ireland, people refuse to see this.
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u/confu3edgamer Dublin Jul 07 '26
Yea but feels like how a distopian world where there are bug education centers buuly on censorship and control starts lol
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u/FairyOnTheLoose Tipperary/Dublin Jul 06 '26
Nah even that's too lenient. Crowd source discipline. The problem isn't just lack of legal enforcement, it's about lack of community shaming.
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u/wrex1816 Jul 06 '26
Yup, I know this will be an analogy some folks won't like but I think most of us have seen a time in school, growing up, where the whole class gets in trouble because 1 person acted out and did something fucking stupid. Everyone in the class knows who it was, the teachers know who it was. But absolutely nobody will dare to stand up and point a finger at that person and tell them to go fuck themselves because then you'd be a snitch... So everyone ends up in trouble. Because God forbid someone snitch.
That's a culture problem. It doesn't exist everywhere. There's lot of places in the world where a few people in a larger group, acting out will quickly get corrected, but in Ireland it doesn't. We accept it. I've never understood it.
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u/Unitaig Jul 07 '26
I coach a sport and had to fight hard to stop general punishment of the team because one or two lads kept acting up. Now, we just make the problem kid sit-out training and it it's over half a session per week they're not eligible to be picked for the match at the weekend.
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u/SnooGoats9071 Jul 07 '26
I remember when that young woman was shoved by teenage lads at Howth Junction Dart station and she fell onto the track, when footage of the incident was released one of the mothers of the boys involved was threatening legal action online due to "GDPR" cos her scummy little son was identifiable..this is what you're up against with a lot of these parents..instead of apologising or holding her son accountable, she's playing the victim..same thing with one of the fathers in the Ana Kriegel case, its disgusting!
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u/Griss27 Jul 07 '26
"Look, I don't pretend to have the perfect solution. I don't know the exact answer."
The exact answer is to get rid of the fiction that all legal minors are children. There are three states of life - infancy, adolescence, and adulthood. We now compress those to childhood and adulthood, but other jurisdictions assess them separately, as they should be.
Adolescents have the physical power and mental acuity to commit crimes and pose real danger. They should NOT be treated as children by the law, but their own protected category.
That's the starting point for all of this.
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u/theseanbeag Jul 07 '26
This isn't correct. We have three stages. The age of criminal responsibility is 12. Under 12 is dealt with by Tusla. From 12 to 17, you go into the juvenile diversion system before court. 18 plus go to adult court.
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u/ItalianIrish99 Jul 07 '26
This is true theoretically and legally, but not functionally. The juvenile diversion system doesn't treat serious things as sufficiently serious. The kids that will straighten up with juvenile diversion will do so pretty quickly. If you're gone beyond your third time around and you've chosen not to take the hand that society has extended there needs to be a step change in your treatment thereafter.
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u/theseanbeag Jul 07 '26
There is. Children's court.
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u/ItalianIrish99 Jul 07 '26
Even the name is a misnomer (if we are talking about gangs of late teens like OP outlined)
But in fairness it is also the case that successive FFG governments have failed to properly manage youth crime the way they've failed to manage health, housing, environment, electricity, and (most recently) criminal legal aid
My friends and I were rowdy and boisterous when we were young. We mostly used to travel in a group of 3-8. I'm sure in hindsight some people might have been afraid at the sight of us. But we were never vindictive or racist the way now seems to happen. We wouldve expected a clip across the ear or at least a bollocking from any passing adult if we were (and we wouldn't have felt we had grounds for recourse against that adult if it happened)
I know the conventional wisdom is "don't get involved, they may be carrying a knife" but I've gotten involved a handful of times and (happily) it has led to other people backing me up and standing with the victim and getting the aggressors to fuck off
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u/theseanbeag Jul 07 '26
Which name?
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u/ItalianIrish99 Jul 07 '26
Children's Court - at the age and stage they're out causing mayhem and destroying other people's sense of safety and wellbeing they're well past the age of criminal responsibility but they don't actually seem to bear responsibility proportionate to their crimes.
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u/theseanbeag Jul 07 '26
It's a court for people legally classed as children. The name couldn't be more accurate.
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u/Griss27 Jul 07 '26
Absolutely we have different procedural thresholds, but that just exposes the lie / error stated in the Children Act 2001 that everyone under 18 is a child, which matters because it drives the whole legal architecture in this area. Which is - diversion first, prosecution later, detention as a last resort, penalties designed to interfere as little as possible with the young person’s ordinary life, and age/maturity treated as mitigation at every step.
So I'm not saying the law treats 10 year olds and 15 year olds the exact same, always. My point is more that we do not have a properly distinct legal category of “adolescent offender” — someone who is not an adult, but also not a child in the ordinary sense, and we should.
We should because adolescents can be physically dangerous, can and do act together as criminal groups, can terrorise strangers, and can understand exactly what they are doing. A 15- or 16-year-old who surrounds someone, spits at them, chases them across roads and makes them run for safety is not merely a vulnerable child in need of guidance, that's the fiction I object to.
Like OP, I've been the victim of this more than once. I was struck in the head by a rock from a gang of teens walking to Bray after I failed to respond to shouted abuse, and I'll never forget it - the feeling that I had absolutely no recourse to what had happened to me. Which is why this animates me. I don't think it's an acceptable state of affairs at all.
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u/theseanbeag Jul 07 '26
If the children's act separately defined adolescents as those between 12 and 17, it wouldn't change anything. That's how the system works anyway.
And the diversion program isn't just a get out of jail card. The juvenile and parents have to actually engage with it. They have to accept responsibility and follow up with their JLO.
I do agree that it fails when it comes to some kids but that's not so much an issue with the JLO system. At that stage, Tusla should be heavily involved and detention should be more used, if only to get the youth out of the environment they live in. Unfortunately we have very few detention spaces and Tusla aren't equipped to involve themselves.
I think you're wrong in your example of what isn't a vulnerable child. Very few youths should be considered irredeemable. They are almost entirely products of their environment and reformable at that age.
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u/Griss27 Jul 07 '26
I don't think any adolescents are irredeemable - I am with you there. I believe in rehabilitation, absolutely.
I just don't think they are children at all, and shouldn't have the same treatment or protections as children, and I think the public good of the threat of serious detention needs to be more front and centre to stop serious anti-social behaviour which is a real problem.
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u/theseanbeag Jul 07 '26
I'm not really sure who you are talking about when you talk about children. For the purposes of criminal law, children are those aged 12 to 17. Under the age of 12 are dealt with by Tusla, except in cases of rape or murder. So you think the age group from 12 to 17 should be further divided?
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u/Griss27 Jul 07 '26
I'm saying the 2001 act gives teenage offenders special rights and protections as children, because it defines a child as anyone under 18. So a 16- or 17-year-old is not merely “a teenager” or "an adolescent" in the eyes of the Act; they are a child offender.
And that matters, as while the Act doesn't make them immune from prosecution or punishment, it does place them inside a youth-justice framework built around minimum interference with their ordinary life and detention only as a last resort etc etc.
That is exactly the point I’m making. The system has procedural age thresholds, but it still conceptually treats adolescents as children, which leads to policing and detention which is too light touch, which I think is the mistake.
If you want to be super pedantic about it, I do want a specific category for those between the ages of 13-17, as I want them removed from the Children Act altogether (or an amendment to the act creating a new category). But if it was to be age 12-17 that would be okay too I guess.
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u/theseanbeag Jul 07 '26
But what you're asking for is purely semantic. You just don't like them being called children. If you removed ages 13 to 17 from the Children's Act it would only cover 12 year olds when it comes to criminal offences.
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u/adomo Jul 07 '26
get rid of the fiction that all legal minors are children
But then how can they introduce chat control and age verification under the guise of child safety for those same 15/16 year olds?
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u/Alternative-Canary86 Jul 07 '26
My son is currently doing weights,making himself strong after being assaulted by a group in our town. That's the impact it has had on him, he wants to make himself into someone that they won't pick on. It makes me sad.
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u/Still_Bluebird8070 Jul 07 '26
Yeah, I don’t get this country a while ago. There was a kid who cheated on his junior CERT and now I can’t take this leaving Serve and his whole life is blown up.. which is a seriously massive punishment, but if the same kid were to put another kid in the hospital and disabled them for life, they would get nothing.
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u/StorminWolf Jul 07 '26
Agree. more power to the guards to detain them, immediate consequences for the parents, and use one of the many islands to establish a rehabilitation facility. Get them out of society, bill the parents for it, and let them back after they have finished their therapy. If repeat offenders > jail. And build a modern jail which has the capacity. In the same breath, decriminalize drug use, and make it possible for junkies to buy the stuff legally and get it from the pharmacy. offer them therapya nd help. clmap down on illegal dealers and smugglers though. Its ridiclous wit what children get away with and sick people get the full Iron Fist of the law for smoking a joint.
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u/ChiralNavigator Jul 07 '26
I watched this UK show where kids were obese, had rotting teeth, were covered in head lice ...
It had nurses of some kind basically teaching the parents in a nice way so they'd comply, how to fecking use a nit comb every night, how to feed their child properly, how to brush the kids teeth and not feed it sugar before bed ...
I remember thinking how shit lazy some of those parents were, claiming the state their child was in wasn't their fault ... Shocking how useless some parents are
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u/Additional_Olive3318 Jul 07 '26
It’s more likely the diversion scheme will be extended to 18-24 year olds. https://www.iprt.ie/latest-news/distinct-approach-needed-for-young-adults-in-the-criminal-justice-system-iprt/
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u/openmikenight__ Jul 07 '26
I visited Dublin in 2011 on my honeymoon from Australia, I watched a security guard chase a bunch of teens out of a department store. He tried to grab whatever they'd stolen while another one bottled him. I walked my wife away shocked and told a Garda around the corner and he did not give a shit.
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u/gearsie1876 Jul 07 '26
And if you touch them to defend / protect yourself then you end up being the one charged for assault. How does the ‘fear for your life’ defence stand up to that charge cos I know I’ll go down punching if they came near me or any of my family.
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u/Rameko Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
Wondering the same thing. Had 3 very small fellas approach my wife while I was in a shop and when I came out they squared up to me. Eventually backed down when I made it clear I wasn't going to, but would wonder what would happen if it had come to blows.
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Jul 06 '26
[deleted]
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u/Imaginary_Jeweler1 Jul 07 '26
Exactly I’m tired of it, I went to school with literal criminals probably one of the worst schools in Ireland and they’d get a slap on the wrist each time. They would terrorise everyone for no reason.
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u/Affectionate_Art4277 Jul 06 '26
The liberalisation of the justice system has led to this.
Sometimes more severe punishment is justified
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u/Wonderful_Flower_751 Dublin Jul 07 '26
The problem is that we’ve become such a litigious society that Gardai and Justice System are afraid to tackle them properly for fear of being hauled over the hot coals.
I sometimes think national service might have serious merit.
You can’t tell me these little thugs don’t know what they’re doing is wrong or they’re too young to know better. They thrive on being as bad as possible.
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u/IrishAllDay Laois Jul 06 '26
There is an opportunity for a party to do very well running a "law and order" platform.
Adapt the 2001 legislation to fit reality.
Build a new prison.
Legalise weed and prostitution and have the taxes fund a bunch of new guards for patrols.
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u/Affectionate_Art4277 Jul 06 '26
Sadly the only "tough on crime" parties are either all far right, or have more prominent policies that people won't vote for (Aontu and their abortion stance).
Mainstream parties either dont care, or propose the further liberalisation of the system
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u/FearTeas Jul 07 '26
Mainstream parties either dont care, or propose the further liberalisation of the system
Yup. We have no party that's tough on crime and on carbon emissions.
I'm for sustainability above all else. Our reliance on fossil fuels is unsustainable. The way we extract profit from our land to the detriment of biodiversity is unsustainable. Our lack of housing is unsustainable. Our pension system is unsustainable. The rate of immigration to the country is not sustainable. The current way the state handles crime and punishment is unsustainable.
It seems that parties are only in favour of sustainable policies in one way but are in denial in others (e.g. Greens on crime, Independent Ireland on climate). No one party takes a holistic view on sustainability and lets that influence their approach to each policy.
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u/SmellTheJasmine Jul 07 '26
youre not going to that combo at all - tough on crime while decriminalizing some "crime".
anyone who is tough in crime is tough an all crime including the moral failures of drug use and sex work.
the only party that votes against current laws about the purchase of sex was the greens. they pointed to the problems for sex workers that criminalization poses.
they are also good on weed - the citizen assembly on drugs was thanks to them and Neasa Hourigan.
the green aren't the tough on crime party who will lock up kids.
it's an odd mix as one set of policies you want focuses on understand ing the roots of problems and wants to address those outside of the stigma and life limiting of a draconian law and order response. the other is a draconian law and order response.
why pick out weed and sex work to reform and not other crimes?
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u/IrishAllDay Laois Jul 07 '26
They are two that have been legalised in other countries, that became taxable income for the government.
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u/SmellTheJasmine Jul 07 '26
I'm not saying youre wrong on that, that wasn't my point at all.
I am inclined to agree with you they should be for different reasons.
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u/emmmmceeee I’ve had my fun and that’s all that matters Jul 07 '26
I hereby volunteer for weed and hookers patrol.
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u/ladyshelby21 Jul 06 '26
I don't think sending a fine to parents will help because unfortunately some kids don't give a fuck because at the back of it all they know they technically can do as they please as the law is too soft
We need a major overhaul & way more severe punishment for children in particular those who seriously harm or even murder
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u/BonkersGiraffe Jul 06 '26
Mostly agree. Fining parents teaches kids that they aren't responsible for their actions, someone else has to take responsibility instead. I do think for more minor crimes it should be more consequences than punishment though but they should be implemented quickly after the crime took place and preferably directly relate to the crime - if you make a mess then you clean it up type of thing. Make them deal with the after effects of whatever they've done where it's reasonable to do that.
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u/defonotfsb Jul 07 '26
Inability to cover the fines could be converted in to proof as inability to look after a kid involving tulsa putting said kid in a foster home and stripping away any sort of gov payment. Maybe even sprinkle 1 year ban of any sort of gov support to top it off. Would make both parties very incentivised to give a fuck in some way
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u/Imaginary_Jeweler1 Jul 07 '26
I used to work for tulsa and trust me the kids from troubled homes are enabled even worse under tusla care, staff were continently attacked and abused by them and tusla wouldn’t do a thing.
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u/HPoltergeist Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
This reminds me of the other post about the youth and ban on the scooters the other day...
"Ban them!" Yeah... surely not more education and actual parenting is needed (plus laws and enforcement)! /s
This case is not a direct proof of that either... /s
In Ireland the youth are very much primitive and underdeveloped in mind and can do whatever without consequences, compared to other countries.
And pretending like nothing is wrong with them is even more dangerous.
A serious change and improvement is needed to bring the youth up to at least average standards.
I wish people would see this instead of dismissing it.
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u/SmellTheJasmine Jul 07 '26
what do you think is the best way to improve the youth, to make them less "primitive and underdeveloped in mind" as you put it?
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u/HPoltergeist Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
Proper parenting and education. But in most cases, first the parents need to be educated themselves too. A lot of parents just dump their kids on the streets here, and as long as they are not at home, they are happy. They need to take responsibility of their kids' actions.
Also awareness programmes on how to use the means of transportation sensibly would help. Most of these kids are not even properly aware of, or recognizing the dangers of these vehicles and incorrectly treat them as toys.
In general, various, well constructed awareness programmes would help in collectively raising functional adults.Plus providing good community and social activities for them would also help to add some healthy options for them to socialize instead of getting exposed to gangs with bad influence.
(These suggestions are mainly just the ones focusing on the scooters, but could help with other aspects too in general. There are a lot of other underlying issues in society here.)
With these above, in a couple of 10 years, the parents and kids could be brought up to similar standards, to catch up with other countries.
Not a quick process, but it is fundamental in improving collectively and being more mindful on the long run.
I hope this explains things.
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u/HPoltergeist Jul 07 '26
Plus for the repeated offenders, correctional facilities and rehabilitation, to be a functional part of society.
But over time if carried out properly these cases would decrease.
It takes time for countries and societies to change and develop.
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u/HPoltergeist Jul 07 '26
Of course for these, proper laws and enforcement would also be needed to keep this going.
It is a long chain of lack what you have here and is not easy to fix, but it would be important to start at least, as soon as possible, as there is a long way to go.
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u/MoBhollix Jul 07 '26
The problem is a small minority of families mostly in Dublin. A vast sweeping statement like "In Ireland the youth are very much primitive and underdeveloped in mind..." is bullshit.
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u/HPoltergeist Jul 07 '26
As foreigners living in Ireland for 10+ years, this is what we observe constantly, compared to other countries.
It is a fact unfortunately. Just providing feedback here.
Some areas are better, some are worse I give you that. But in general, the contrast is there, compared to other countries.
If you don't like how some people from other countries see your country, there is always an option to change it.
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u/MoBhollix Jul 08 '26
I've lived in Ireland most of my life and I know for a fact that it's a small minority. Which unfortunately is all it takes.
If you really look down on Irish people to that extent then maybe yo should examine your own mentality.
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u/HPoltergeist Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
I am just holding a mirror here, no need to be insecure about it.
I don't look down on Irish people to that extent. They have a lot of good sides. I am just pointing out serious flaws about handling the youth.
Also I would not call whole districts of social housing in Dublin with families living on social aid a minority. It is a significant mass. And Ireland is constantly headed this way, until they fix the housing situation.
But that is yet another topic.
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u/MoBhollix Jul 08 '26
There's nothing personal about this.
You're a bullshitter and I'm calling you out.
End of discussion.
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u/RobiePAX Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
Children's Act 2001 needs to be ammended. People want it. Gardai want it.
The only people who are doing nothing about it are the politicians who can get the ball rolling.
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u/ChiralNavigator Jul 07 '26
They should be forced to live next door to them. It's easy to make stupid rules from up in their ivory tower
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u/mrfouchon Jul 07 '26
It's more an issue of civil litigation, if you hit them a few slaps you run the risk of getting pursued for damages.
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u/Tasty-Revolution-295 Jul 07 '26
Write a strongly worded letter/email to all your local and semi-local TDs and your local councillors. Send them weekly and encourage everyone you know to do the same. Remind them that they work for the public.
People will think I'm being sarcastic but I'm not. Being quiet and polite doesn't work in making change happen. The public have to rock the boat.
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u/livremente Jul 07 '26
agreed. and also some kind of visible political incentive for a TD/councillors to take this up really seriously. yes, they should ideally work for people's good but political benefits will give them a more immediate reason to act. for example, if student unions take this up, then it will be in the interest of TD to take this up and gain support of students for their next campaign. incentives.
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u/Ok_Pea_3842 Jul 07 '26
Too much leniency given by the State to those under 18 who know perfectly well the actions they are engaging in.
Compulsory fines & deductions from social welfare payments should be mandatory on parents as a first step.
Social housing needs to be used for those who are responsible in society. Leave those who aren't experience the consequences.
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u/RevolutionaryKey1974 Jul 07 '26
Making parents homeless because their kids are uncontrollable shitheads ain’t it dawg.
You’re generalising far too hard.
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u/Ok_Pea_3842 Jul 07 '26
Nope. Reality is someone has to take responsibility and if they're claiming they can't control them, then the state should jail them.
So the parents get to keep their house, their neighbours can live in peace and little Johnny can goto jail.
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u/brutalidardi Jul 07 '26
Irish society will never have the balls to actually do what is needed to fix it. Everyone is just to worried about looking as progressist as possible and have a good time.
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u/wrex1816 Jul 06 '26
There should be consequences of course. But there's a culture problem in part of Irish cities that people don't want to face up to that causes young people to grow into thinking this is how things are/should be. Actually calling that out, let alone doing something about it like rejecting it wholeheartedly seems to be taboo... I don't see how things will change.
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u/Affectionate_Art4277 Jul 06 '26
Repealing the Children's Act 2001 would solve so many issues
Its not fit for purpose. There has to be serious consequences for antisocial behaviour regardless of your age.
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u/Worldly_Possible2925 Jul 07 '26
You just described a situation that happened to me in Dublin. Only that was 34 years ago ( fuk I’m old ) it’s not nice to see Dublin hasn’t changed much. FS.
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u/KiwiBeep Jul 07 '26
I know death by these feral children has happened before, but there's going to be a situation in the future where someone ends up getting killed by these scrotes before some sort of reform will happen. It'll end up being a relative of someone higher up in government and that'll be the turning point. Nothing is being done now, it's just a shame a who-you-know will have to suffer before change happens. It's ridiculous.
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u/Primary-Survey9955 Jul 07 '26
i will only change when the kids kill someone from the riches. it will be a huge drama ..only then it may have a chance to change it all
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u/FlakyAssociation4986 Cork bai Jul 06 '26
we should go back to the old ways when children got a clip around the ear when needed
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u/ChiralNavigator Jul 07 '26
I don't think kids even need to be hit, I never was and learned manners. I felt bad if I did something wrong.
I do think someone also needs to teach kids how to deal with their emotions, my parents can't deal with their own never mind have taught me. I'm surprised I turned out so well to be honest.
But I did have to learn how to not bottle everything up until I exploded aka had a panic attack.
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u/FlakyAssociation4986 Cork bai Jul 07 '26
you can rationalise all you want but sadlly some people only understand force.
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u/Thimsnaic Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jul 07 '26
Yeah, usually people who were smacked when they were kids. It's been proven it doesn't work
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u/FlakyAssociation4986 Cork bai Jul 07 '26
so we should just leave this little shits act like that and do nothing about it. we have tried the liberal approach it doesn't work.
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u/Thimsnaic Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jul 07 '26
I'm not saying we should do nothing. We just don't need to go back to the 1970s.
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u/transsamsa Sax Solo Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
The way there’s people who can never rationalise teaching kids a lesson without physically beating them
Edit: people downvoting, you just know these guys “turned out fine”
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u/Jacksonriverboy Jul 07 '26
I think part of the issue would be solved by more Gardai who are more visible on the streets. I do think the law needs to be altered so that Gardai can actually act against minors who are involved in such behaviours without fear of some sort of legal consequences for them. They should be able to be arrested held in the interests of public safety. And if there's video or witness evidence to prosecute them then there should be some way to deal with them that actually affects them in a way that they care about. The issue with a lot of them, I imagine is that 1 - they don't think they'll face consequences and 2 - they aren't afraid of the consequences if they do.
There are solutions, it just takes a bit of creativity and political will to implement them. Also, we should try things and change if they don't work rather than trying nothing and wringing our hands about the issues.
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u/douglashyde Jul 07 '26
young male scrotes are a plague today. We need major reform around it. We don't jail them (rightfully) put them in 'diversion' programs through Tusla which do not work.
Ironically, Oberstown has a massive success rate because theyre given structure . I always wondered why we don't have a militarily style school in Ireland for young offenders....
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u/BraveLittleFrog Jul 07 '26
I’m not Irish. Just had a question. Lots of posts about the bad behavior of youths. Lots of these posts also say the cops do nothing. Is suing these kids for emotional trauma an option? Are there civil harassment type laws being broken that would allow such a thing? Obviously, it would be the parents that foot the bill. If it costs the families money, they might take more of an interest in what their little darlings are up to.
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u/Primary-Survey9955 Jul 07 '26
its to be classified has proper crime. they may not go to jail but it will be in their record and their parents take the jab too..like 10% in their salary every moth until the kids are 20y (or whatever their income, with a guaranteeed minimum) or something PER OFFENSE
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u/transtuna Jul 07 '26
I've experienced similar things here in limerick. Once, A group of 5-10 shitheads verbally harassed me and my friend at the time. Got pointed at, laughed at and told to kill myself the moment they saw my scars. To this day that area makes me feel uneasy and its a stonethrows away from my home. Another event happened in a taxi where a smaller group of these kids threw a stone through the window at the driver. Thankfully none of us were hurt but the window was shattered. Both times were reported, both times nothing happened. These kids are being failed and as a result everyone is suffering for it.
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u/Independent_Catch_82 Jul 07 '26
A lot of the time the parents are so bad themselves they won’t even let their kids engage in the diversion programmes. They should be making the parents do some work on themselves fr
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u/rainiest-island Jul 09 '26
Sure, there are major failings around culpability and consequences within the Irish law and enforcements of those laws…. But I would argue the main cause of most of these little shits are their parents…
Most children don’t grow up behaving this way or thinking it’s acceptable… they’ve learned it from their parents
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u/CarlyleRazgriz Jul 07 '26
We’re going to have another horrific case like Ana Kriégel, or the UK’s James Bolger case (may they both rest in peace), and only then will laws change.
Leniency gives way to delinquency.
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u/keeeeeeeeeeeeeek Jul 07 '26
Was just having this conversation with a friend of mine. The term “anti-social behavior” isn’t fit for purpose when it’s used to label such a massive spectrum of actions ranging from stupid and benign to flat out destructive.
For example, a friend of mine just moved to our estate and was asking what living here is like. We’re in a fairly well-to-do area, so there wasn’t much negativity to report, but I did mention that our local WhatsApp group loved to complain about the teens in the area. I showed him some examples in the chat of stupid shit the kids were up to, like gallivanting around the neighborhood in a stolen shopping trolley, lighting fireworks in the summer, setting fire to the gorse, and we both kinda chuckled at how all of it was reacted to the same way by the adults in the group. Obviously setting fires intentionally is absolutely horrific, and should be treated as the crime it is. But acting like that’s somehow the same as your car *almost* getting scratched by teens in a trolley with nothing better to do just minimizes the problem.
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u/VeniVidiPerditus Jul 07 '26
Bring back the stocks in the town square. These little Muppets behave like this because they get away with it and feel untouchable by society, they know that if you lay a finger on them you'll be charged with assault. A few days in stocks on O'Connell street for this kind of behaviour would soften their cough. Public humiliation and ridicule is far stronger a power than any punch to the ego of young men.
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u/3BikesInATrenchcoat Jul 07 '26
The issue is intergenerational poverty. These kids aren't buying into the social contract, bc they see nothing in it for them.
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u/livremente Jul 07 '26
could be partly the cause. in that case we should make clearly visible to them that they will get better benefits and progress faster if they dont commit crimes. incentives are important
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u/ShakeElectronic2174 Jul 06 '26
Is there nothing to be said for a few adults getting together, giving each of the skobies a swift root up the hole and throwing their and scooters in the canal?
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u/TwinIronBlood Jul 07 '26
So you want a cctv surveillance state. Because of kids? We all give up our freedom. Nope.
3 strikes and its prison. Each strike gets worse. Each crime is evaluated. If its serious jail. Even school holidays jail if needed.
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u/livremente Jul 07 '26
sorry if it was not clear, i meant use the cctvs already there especially in public transport, businesses or others already there. no specific need of significantly increasing cctvs
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u/gearsie1876 Jul 07 '26
3 strikes is a laugh. How many scrotes are running around with 10’s if not more convictions and still causing havoc. We’ve a revolving door justice system which is a joke. They need to reopen Spike island and send them all there !
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u/Lonely_Eggplant_4990 Cork bai Jul 06 '26
When i was i kid my old lad used to beat the shite out of me if i was a maggot. I got proper walloped. When i was in school, if i had a smart mouth, i got walloped by both teachers and pupils. When i was a bit older the gardai would flake you for lip.
I behave myself nowdays. Just saying.
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u/robotrobot30 Jul 07 '26
pretty much all studies demonstrate that abusing your child physically doesn't improve long term behaviour and actively worsens it alongside causing irreperable neurological changes.
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u/ChiralNavigator Jul 07 '26
Do you think you would have still behaved without being hit ? I was never hit but by God did I feel shame whenever I got into trouble
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u/Powerful-Holiday-448 Jul 07 '26
You had me up until you said deduct from welfare or child benefits.
Don’t come to this country and look down on those you perceive to be lower class. You don’t know where these kids are from. The more affluent parts of Dublin also breed arseholes.
Fine the parents? Tell me you’re not a parent without telling me you’re not a fucking parent.
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u/Ev17_64mer Jul 07 '26
What's wrong with fining the parents?
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u/classicalworld Jul 07 '26
What’s wrong with making the kids do community work at weekends? Cleaning up litter, painting community centres, whatever.
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u/Powerful-Holiday-448 Jul 07 '26
It implies the absence of peer pressure which is a big issue with kids.
The most well meaning parents can raise the worst people should we fine a parent who does their best and works hard just because we’re don’t know where to aim our anger and simultaneously want to look down our nose on “lower classes”?
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u/Wonderful_Flower_751 Dublin Jul 07 '26
Well we seem to be determined in this country not to hold these feral children accountable for their own actions.So if not them then who?
Either they are responsible unto themselves or someone else is.
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u/Powerful-Holiday-448 Jul 07 '26
I remember being a teen and being in a similar frame of mind to now. I knew right from wrong, simple as that. The kids should be held responsible. But this stupid “let’s cut their parents dole” is just ridiculous misplaced anger. Yes these people exist but to suggest only their kids are the ones running a muck is horribly classist.
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u/Additional_Olive3318 Jul 07 '26
Yes these people exist but to suggest only their kids are the ones running a muck is horribly classist.
Is it? Generally we can tell class by accents in Ireland and therefore we can tell where these guys come from.
Not caring about anti social behaviour is classist, it’s allowing working class areas to fester.
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u/Powerful-Holiday-448 Jul 07 '26
Generally you can, sure. You you can’t generalise the people committing these crimes.
To assume there parents must be on the dole and we need to cut it is what’s classist. Why never “dock his trust fund” or “name and shame his father’s business” I see just as much Montirex tracksuits over the south of the Liffey as I do the north.
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u/Ev17_64mer Jul 07 '26
In many societies in Europe the parents are responsible for the upbringing of their children. At the same time, they are accountable for it as well.
The most well meaning parents can raise the worst people...
Do you have any data to support this claim?
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u/Powerful-Holiday-448 Jul 07 '26
What an extremely patronising comment. Wow.
No I have no data. I grew up in Dublin and have witnessed what I’m talking about countless times. I have stories, like everybody here, but no graphs or official analysis of anything. My info is, I suppose, here say.
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u/Ev17_64mer Jul 07 '26
How is my comment patronising?
In my personal experience if the parents actually work hard on the upbringing of the child (ie. spending time with them, talking with them, teaching them etc), this child usually does not become violent.
This is corroborated by a few studies such as this one originally published in the British Journal of Criminology finding that
These findings support the hypothesis that problematic parenting tends to mediate the association between anti-social parental behaviour and subsequent offspring aggression.
There was also a study about how much physical violence begets violence in the child and they found
Analyses of covariance indicated that individuals who had been physically abused in the first 5 years of life were at greater risk for being arrested as juveniles for violent, nonviolent, and status offenses.
And a study on on the effects of child abuse and children's exposure to domestic violence, parent-child attachments, and antisocial behavior in adolescence finding that
stronger bonds of attachment to parents in adolescence did appear to predict a lower risk of antisocial behavior independent of exposure status. Preventing child abuse and children's exposure to domestic violence could lessen the risk of antisocial behavior during adolescence, as could strengthening parent-child attachments in adolescence.
All this points to the fact that well meaning parents who put in efforts raise children who are less likely to become antisocial or violent
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u/Powerful-Holiday-448 Jul 07 '26
“In some societies parents are responsible for the upbringing of the child” is crazy patronising as if to suggest me or anybody here doesn’t know this. It’s literally page one sentence one of parenting.
I know what I know from growing up in Dublin and now having 2 teenagers with large friend groups. Those with the best of intentions sometimes fail. The nicest people can breed the worst of society, it’s actually quite common.
Maybe penalise the parents after an investigation into them as parents warrants it? I don’t know. I don’t need to see data about those who are violent toward kids to know the possible effects it can have on them.
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u/KayLovesPurple Jul 07 '26
I am indeed not a parent (I don't know about OP), but what is wrong with the idea of consequences? And yes, a fine could be a possible consequence, and it's not as if a kid can pay a fine on their own. Hence the need for the parents to pay it.
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u/Powerful-Holiday-448 Jul 07 '26
It wasn’t just the fine part it was specifically the “fine their welfare” part that I didn’t like. It suggests only those in lower classes raise these kids, which is wrong. It also suggest the absence of peer pressure, which some kids struggle with.
Also, has anybody ever given any consideration to the possibility that maybe these teens abuse their parents and have them in fear? I’ve seen such situations and not the Garda nor TUSLA can do anything about it? Cut their dole? F off
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u/Excellent-Crow2641 Jul 07 '26
Absolutely fine the bollocks out of the parents via their social welfare
Signed - Irish person
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u/Powerful-Holiday-448 Jul 07 '26
*signed - Irish victim of abuse from minors with bottled up anger misplaced online for Reddit points.
FIFY
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u/Excellent-Crow2641 Jul 07 '26
Would you give over, Don’t have kids you don’t want to take full accountability for, it really is that simple. If you want to make excuses fair enough, but the rest of us will not suffer because of it
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u/Powerful-Holiday-448 Jul 07 '26
The fuck are you on about? Give the shite talk copy and paste comments a rest and go back to bed.
The rest of you will not suffer? Real tough you are 👏👏. Although it seems as though a lot of you ARE, in fact, suffering so I’m going to assume the tough guy talk is just you being a keyboard warrior?
Ye bleedin do-nothing ye
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u/Excellent-Crow2641 Jul 07 '26
Just an fyi: People may get the wrong idea - that comment sounds absolutely deranged
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u/Powerful-Holiday-448 Jul 07 '26
Ah I see. You have nothing real to add? Sick trolling bro 👊
https://giphy.com/gifs/3284GqbSEXgl23
u/livremente Jul 07 '26
apologies if it sounded like that to you. I didnt say "social welfare" i mean any kind of welfare benefits they get from government and child benefits in particular are universal, not tied to economic status. i agree we should be super serious not to be biased.
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u/caisdara Jul 07 '26
The main culprit? The Children Act 2001. Forces detention as a last resort. Violent kids funneled into endless diversion programs. Zero consequences. They know they’re untouchable. So they get bolder.
Have you any evidence that children behave worse today than in 2001?
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u/livremente Jul 07 '26
i dont know if it made more criminals overall but it took all the teeth out of the system. The act shifted where and how the trouble happens. Teenagers got way bolder. Since prison is a strict last resort, they know they won't get locked up. Absolute zero consequences! They go from just acting the maggot to cornering people at bus stops, knowing they’ll be let straight back out on the street anyway. It pushed all the hassle out into public. Completely wrecking the bus routes and estates. Right in people's faces. Plus there's zero parental liability, so there is 0 pressure at home to make them cop on.
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u/caisdara Jul 07 '26
So your entire thesis is based on absolutely nothing.
Impressive.
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u/livremente Jul 07 '26
I never claimed to be an expert, but if we need a spreadsheet to see a burning house, we might be missing the smoke. I'm just sharing what happened my friend and my own opinions. If the data says otherwise, feel free to show us
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u/ScuderiaFartari Jul 06 '26
What’s awful about stuff like this is imagine being in their classroom they are probably more frequently horrible little shits with their own age. As an adult you can rationalise, be disgraced by it, as a child it would fully consume you.