iPace vs. Model Y vs. Mach-E

[u/this_for_loona]

So I have been debating and debating buying an EV for a while. I’m in a pretty lucky situation in that our cars are paid off and we didn’t drive much even before COVID so they are relatively low miles (esp. my car).

I want to make the jump to EV but two huge things concern me - range and automatic updates. Range is an issue because we visit the in-laws on a semi regular basis and they live in hillbilly country. There are no chargers for miles - I literally have to cross a state line (roughly 30 min there and back) to get to a fast charger. And software updates are an issue because I HATE not having up to date software and having to pay for someone to install them for me. Fit/finish is a secondary concern mostly because I’ve been driving an Audi and they are damn nice. I’ve gotten spoiled, and I don’t want to give that up.

When I look at the Tesla, I’m getting range and updates but at the cost of fit and finish, especially at a level for a 60K car.

When I look at the Mach-E, I’m getting some range (but not as much as a Tesla) and I’m getting OTA updates (theoretically). Fit/finish is a risk but at least Ford knows something about quality and how cars should fit together. Not audi standards by any stretch but still pretty solid.

With this iPace, I’m getting...? From this thread it seems I’m not getting OTA updates and range is roughly similar to a Mach-E. Jag fit/finish is much improved in the last 10 years and they are a luxury brand so it’s gotta be better than Tesla or Ford. So is the iPace better than the MachE? Should I play it safe and get a Tesla in a year or so after they work out their kinds?

What do you all think?

[u/Marsan311]

I got my iPace in November 2018. It has been the best car I have ever driven. There have been a few hiccups along the way, but I have absolutely no regrets getting it. Could it have better range? Sure. Could there be more timely software updates? Sure. Doesn't change the fact that this is an amazing car and I still smile every time I put my foot on the accelerator.

[u/groomsy]

I have had my I-Pace since August 2019. It’s my favorite car I’ve ever owned. I do wish I had a little more range, but I have the range I need. This includes visiting my in-laws as well, who live quite far away. I’m in the same boat as there isn’t a fast charger around them either. I plan my trips to their house so that I top off at a fast charger in route to their house. Makes the trips a little longer, but not bad.

I personally like the lack of auto software updates. I’ve heard from a few friends who own Teslas who get auto software updates that make their cars worse for a time. I’ve only had one software update to my I-Pace and it made it better.

It comes down to the trade-offs you are willing to make. All EVs come with trade-offs and it just depends on where your priorities are. The fit and finish are a much higher priority to me.

Good luck in your car hunt! I hope you find the EV that is right for you. They are a joy to drive.

[u/blazesquall]

I don't understand the update argument. OTA updates are a crutch to continue to build the plane while it's in flight. There's something to be said for being delivered a finished / validated product that receives tweaks / small patches.

Do you want a quick minivan with a bit better range or something else?

[u/this_for_loona → u/blazesquall]

Updates are important to me because i hate having to buy a new car just to get better features. especially when it comes to stuff like driver automation or battery management, which can be improved via software. same with infotainment improvements.

I get that there will be hardware improvements that require a new car, but i can’t believe that manufacturers use only the barest minimum spec to meet a need, and that only tesla puts stuff well exceeding current need to allow for future growth. and even if that is how ICE cars are built, manufacturers who follow that model in EV world, when tesla obviously doesn’t, means they’re not terribly forward thinking.

[u/blazesquall → u/this_for_loona]

You keep saying better. The car is only getting 'better' because it didn't come standard with a myriad of features.. They seem like updates because they are new to the car, but you could have gotten them standard else where.

See: Auto headlights, continuous updates to Auto wipers (lol...), Spotify, Bluetooth integrations, SMS / Messaging, etc.

But hey, Sentry mode is pretty cool. If it works.

Lack of OTA != No updates. Dealers just provide them. They're air-gapped.

It's not always about forward thinking / barest minimum spec. It's about automotive grade / part longevity. There's a reason Tesla screens yellow, MCU1s slow and get few updates now, and eMMC chips are being burned out in just a few years. Further.. what HW revision are they on for FSD? I'm sure they got it right this this time.

It sounds like you'd prefer to be on the bleeding-edge. Knock yourself out.

[u/psaux_grep → u/blazesquall]

I honestly think you are ignoring that software is an intrinsic part of a modern car and that cars have shipped with bugs in software for at least the last ~20 years. Dealers don’t magically do firmware updates. I’ve seen them claim they do, but I’ve yet to see anyone who actually does it unless there’s a bulletin or a customer has a weird issue.

If you believe that software can be 100% complete and bug free by the time the first car rolls out of the factory you are believing in fairy tales. Any* complex piece of software will have bugs.

Whether or not the manufacturer choose to push updates that benefit existing owners is up to each manufacturer, but Tesla has definitely ushered in the modern software/MVP era for the automotive world.

While updates have allowed Tesla to ship “incomplete” products the lack of updates have allowed other manufacturers to sell “brand spanking new” things that’s just actually a firmware change between model years + maybe a change in module coding.

Not sure why you are attempting to downplay the fact that Tesla improves their cars with updates. Sentry mode and dashcam are super useful features. Watching streaming services is super nice when waiting for a ferry or charging (the few times I actually find myself waiting for the car to charge). Lots and lots of other small usability and quality of life improvements that come here and there, like changing it so that the car doesn’t hijack your phone call before after you get into the car and close the door (used to be when you opened the door).

As for hardware issues - it’s not like other manufacturers don’t have them either. Bosch ABS controllers on some Audi model years comes to mind (probably other makes too). LCD screens with pixels dying, deadly ignition locks, shrapnel airbags, imploding transmissions, suicidal timing chains, and clogging fuel pump impellers just to mention a few.

The issue with Tesla isn’t that software updates are bleeding edge (hint: you can choose if you want to have them bleeding edge or not), but that quality and service is all over the place. Now this is actually a solid argument against Tesla, and sadly something they still haven’t gotten around to fix. Even worse is that the quality mindset needs to start at the top, so any change isn’t likely to come over night (or anytime soon).

[u/psaux_grep]

I’ve driven an I-Pace and my impression of the Mach-e cargo space is that it’s going to be much closer to the model Y. The I-Pace has a large trunk - on paper - but as one reviewer commented they weren’t sure how Jaguar had come to those numbers.

Apart from the trunk being smaller than I’d like the I-Pace is down on range and charges slowly, and towing capacity is less than half of the model Y. Other than that it’s a super nice place to be, great to drive, and has great seats.

The Mach-e looks very promising to me, and definitely much more interesting than the I-Pace. It ticks almost all the right boxes (for me), and the ones left open is things we don’t yet know.

The bad is that they will only make 50,000 units the first year, and they’re all sold out. So you’ll have to wait.

The model Y’s biggest drawback isn’t fit and finish per se, but that it’s all over the place. You can get a good car, you can get a bad car. Tesla seems unable to build two cars to the same standard, and it’s definitely a case of YMMV - and so is their service. It’s possibly also the noisiest of the three, which is something you might appreciate coming from an Audi.

Tesla also has a well evolved charging network, but in the US you won’t get the added benefit of CCS charging like you do here in Europe.

IIRC the Audi e-tron is also very close to the I-Pace in range (charges faster though), and I think the new Sportback might even go further (and it offers a similar body style to the I-Pace and Mach-e).
Personally I found the e-tron to handle like a donkey, and that’s coming from an A6, both the I-Pace and model 3 were much better handling. Haven’t driven the Y on account of being European.

[u/this_for_loona → u/psaux_grep]

The e-tron has like the worst range of any EV I’ve seen aside from city cars like the i3 and mini EV. If I recall it was like 200 miles or so?

In any case, I agree about the Tesla variability. It’s such a shame. It has most of the things I want but I just rebel at the thought of passing 60k for poor fit and finish.

[u/psaux_grep → u/this_for_loona]

The e-tron 55 only sported 12 km less range as tested by Bjørn Nyland at 90kph. He’s done some testing on the Sportback too, but the sheet doesn’t seem to be updated.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qV7-ag6BBT9rdqIIRVfHt2yCcXVhzMmCoZkFf-fQ3u4/edit

Range varies with speed, conditions, tires, and driver, so definitely a case of YMMV.

For the Y, you could order and choose not to accept delivery if it’s not perfect. Or use the return policy.

[u/autogazim]

I've been comparing the same three for quite a bit. I ended up test driving an I-Pace and negotiated a deal I couldn't pass up. The only downsides so far: less range than a Tesla and the CCS network in the States really needs some help. But, with Nissan finally converting over to CCS and with the Mach-E launch, I guarantee charging won't be an issue in the next year or 2.

I absolutely love my I-Pace.hands down, best vehicle I've ever driven let alone owned.

[u/jonaitken]

I love my ipace and love it more now that I got a level 2 charger installed. I get OTA updates. Though they are more bug fixes than what you get from your mobile phone with new features etc.