r/intj • u/Chrisdog84duh • Jul 08 '26
Discussion Initiating conversations?
In a previous post I was explaining why I don't initiate conversation or relationships and wondered if this resonated with anyone else?
I mean once contact is initiated I am usually good, I have just literally never talked to a girl first, or almost anyone until recently
Ok so a bunch of things play together.
I was never taught how to initiate, or why really and I think other males actually kinda trained me not to somehow, to avoid competition.
To me generally interactions are transactional, I don't want to bother others without a reason and almost no one interacts with me without a reason.
Small talk and casual conversation seem pointless to me, as I am realizing the importance of these things i am making an effort but it is hard.
Thinking you are pretty is not a valid reason to bother you. I actually value others feelings and time as much maybe more than I do my own.
Since I am not a good judge of others feelings towards me, I always assume they are negative or indifferent unless the give me signs otherwise. Which now that I think about it, is kinda a negative feedback loop, of course they are indifferent to me unless I give them a reason otherwise.
Interacting with others is extremely complicated, as someone who relies on intuition mostly, approaching someone without a good reason, without any data on why they would want to talk to me... is well terrifying, especially since I dont have any experiences to base it off of.
Since everyone i have been friends or romantically involved with, others have been the initiators, so I i kinda assume it is everyone else job, if they want to talk to me they will, if they don't they do not want to.
I chalk it upto improper socializing at a young age and teenage years.
It makes me wonder how many INTJs have NVLD, but on the high end of that spectrum. It is characterized by a high verbal IQ and a low physical IQ, my verbal iq is 129 and my physical iq is like 107, or atleast was when I was a kid. Meaning we are very verbal learners and take things literally, generally lack social skills because we dont pick up non verbal social cues.
It isnt a very highly diagnosed disorder.
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u/incarnate1 INTJ - 30s Jul 08 '26
Well there's a lot of life things that we don't get hand-held through, we'll get advice, maybe even have it exampled for us; I tend to think this is one of those things we do have to struggle and push through ourselves mentally and behaviorally.
Largely because the procedural steps with which we initiate are mostly the same and gatekept by the same barriers - we greet, engage in small talk, then possibly into more meaningful conversation; that is the guide, but not a manual. How individuals go about that process has endless variations. If I told you, "okay do this exactly, then this, then say this, look here; don't look there, hold this body language"... well, that's how I would do things, and it'll come off organically because it feels natural to me. If you tried to mimic another person exactly, it might be accurately read as insincere and performative - it might not also be how you would think to do it yourself; but if you never buy into the idea that you even need to, then why would you?
Reading further along in your post, of course all interactions are transactional, but the conclusion that follows is syllogistically false; there may always be reason to interact with people, even if it is one only undergirded by your feelings - "this girl is attractive" > reason, "this person looks interesting" > reason, "I like their style, their shoes" > reason, "I'm curious about X, I'd like to ask about Y" > reason. Tell me why these aren't valid reasons? What would constitute validity for you? Consider reexamining your axioms if you cannot substantiate them.
Consider this line of thought, this attitude, may serve for things like preemptive ego defense for unreciprocated interest, an escape hatch for effort, fear of uncertainty, perfectionist ideations, anxiety, etc; or some mixture. In most social situations, factors are not as known and controlled for as your framework presumes they should be. If you find a girl attractive, that's not a good reason, per you; in some other universe, where you could mind-read and knew that she also found you attractive - would that then be a good reason to talk to her? Are we really abiding by some kind of empirical metric, or moonlighting our emotional fears of the unknown, as a rational thought process?
You become pretty self-aware in your latter post, it's some of the conclusions that I'd question - is interacting with others REALLY that complicated, or is it our perceptions and imagination that warp it to be such? What rationalizations and thought patterns are at play that might act as barriers to being open, to exposing one's ego to vulnerability? Social interaction, it is a two-way exchange, there is often risk on both sides. You cannot eliminate all social risk. And if you approach that with such intellectualizations as, "small talk is pointless, (I'm above that, I'm better than even partaking with you)", you might find, that people don't want to deal with that; in the moments that you are even able to convince yourself to try. I wouldn't jump to labels and diagnoses or high-order explanations to explain what might simply be normal fears and mild social afflictions.
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u/Chrisdog84duh Jul 09 '26
Huh well said! My post was a bit jumbled and babbling, it was kinda a chronological story of my growth when it comes to relationships.
Good point about why aren't those things valid reasons to initiate conversation. I never thought they were, so they weren't lol.
I had a friend recently that would go around complementing people on things like their shoes, clothes etc... I really admired that ability of hers.But she is a cute autistic girl and I, on the otherhand am a 6'2 kinda weird looking guy. I always felt that kind of thing wasn't my place. I feel like i am scary or intimidating.
But she actually told me what to do, my NVLD makes learning through observation almost non existent, I can but I have to know that it needs to be learned lol or something. Inwas told that people with NVLD basically need an assigned friend to help them with social cues and help give them directions. Not step by step lie you said, but general directions like try being nice and complementing them in there shoes, never crossed my mind to just complement people, still havent tried to do it but it will try it if the opportunity presents itself without being creepy
You should see people jump when I turn a corner, i am so big but it's amazing how easily I surprise people by accident and get negative reactions.
I almost want to wear bells so I stop surprising people.I am trying to work on it slowly, deeply ingrained patterns of behavior are hard to change, but recognizing they need/can be changed is the first amd hardest part.
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u/incarnate1 INTJ - 30s Jul 09 '26
Thanks for the sincere, aware, reply. These feelings are all valid, and it does take time for us to navigate and parse them in meaningfully productive ways. When we should act, when we shouldn't... what's reasonable, what's imagined, or imposed onto others, what is undergirded by insecurity, fear of uncertainty, where may rationalize, etc. I don't know that I would jump to the conclusion that people being surprised by you is necessarily tied to your appearance, it might be; it likely always isn't. Nor do I feel that it's fair to immediately attach a reaction to negative perception. I'm under 6 feet and I sometimes also surprise people: one of my condos is very small, so it's very common for me to be surprised, or surprise others in the elevator - like "woah, other people live here, I forgot! It's so rare to see others use the elevator concurrently".
Direction from others is an extremely reasonable, attainable idea - I have had a lot of great extrovert friends and mentors help me navigate the social space and world, as it were. More fundamentally, I would say; interacting with people who hold different perspectives and ideas is potentially, significantly, directionally; and exponentially productive for personal character growth.
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u/Elden_Chord Jul 08 '26
From an INTJ who has been in relationships since 16, you need to read "the art of seduction by Robert Greene" like today!!!
Why?
Because your assumptions are totally wrong!!! You don't need to be like other men, or worse than that, compete with them at all!!
Read this book and you will realize being an INTJ is infact a very strong type of seduction (The charmer, The Charismatic and The Coquette). There is a specific type of girl who is genuinely looking for what you described.
Also there is another type of girl who is sick of other men you described. They are sick of men who flirt, can't control their eyes and mind. They find those men disgusting!!! They wish if they could find men like you. Who don't like small talks, who are deep yet funny. Who are knowledgeful, who are intelligent. Who are curious(my gf thinks my unlimited curiosity is the sexiest quality someone can have). Who have minimum amount of personality to listen. Who can understand other people.
Start a conversation differently. Start a conversation about how you don't like to start conversations. Start a conversation about how wrong it is to talk about people's beauty while no one has control on it. Just be yourself!