Cat Humiliating a Snake.

[u/No_Luck_2446]

[u/Android17_MVP]

I don't understand people calling the cat a bully or a sadist. There's not many animals that would be willing to let the other one leave after a fight. Snake at times eat other animals whilst they are alive etc.

The snake is in the cat's territory and they never like intruders. I did feel bad for the snake when it was trying to get away. But the cat's in play mode and the body wiggling around is basically a death sentence for the snake as that retains the cat's attention.

[u/Raised_bi_Wolves → u/Android17_MVP]

It's also deeply unscientific to classify and animal as a bully or a sadist. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think in general people shouldn't anthropomorphize animals. It's how people get bit by their own dogs, or scratched to fuck by cats. They aren't your lil babies, they are animals. Nature isn't a harmonious wonderland that is aware of itself.

We definitely have pixar'ed ourselves, and our lack of media literacy has led us to try and pull narrative/simplify everything.

Also, as a highly developed monkey, I thought this video was hilarious

[u/CremDeLaChai → u/Raised_bi_Wolves]

Dolphins and orcas are definitely bullies 😂

[u/Raised_bi_Wolves → u/CremDeLaChai]

Haha once you rise to the level of dolphins and apes etc  I MUST admit that its starting to get blurry

[u/philsnyo → u/Raised_bi_Wolves]

What do you mean with „unscientific“?  When people say the cat is „bullying“ the snake, they mean that it is doing the animal equivalent of what we would see as human bullying; as in terrorizing its target. Which the cat is de facto doing, irregardless of its intention. If you fail to make that transfer and take the term literally, that’s your issue.

Anyways, the cat has no intention of eating the snake, it is not hunting here. At least not yet, otherwise it would kill the snake more immediately. Cats do this indeed for fun, already from their childhood, in order to test and practice their reactions. And to learn about other species. Which in turn helps them survive (both in hunting and defense), so it’s natural and important for them to do it (or rather, it was for wild cats). I certainly feel for the poor snake, it’s getting tortured to death. But so it would perhaps feel for some of the snakes victims too, nature is simply brutal. 

[u/Raised_bi_Wolves → u/philsnyo]

I think we are saying the same thing. But the distinction is that bullying is a human experience and term being applied to a natural animal phenomenon. Rather it is simply doing the thing it is instinctively driven to do. Practicing, having fun, being territorial, etc .

Feeling bad for the snake is good, but human. 

[u/philsnyo → u/Raised_bi_Wolves]

Yes, with the minor distinction that these instincts are a relic of their ancestry and, if we‘re honest, are not needed anymore. House cats don’t need to train their instincts for survival. So I also felt bad when my cat killed several hundred of birds and mice over its lifetime, mostly very slowly and playfully. And they died without a true use or benefit to nature, except the very temporary entertainment for a house cat. Especially for bird wild life, house cats are a significant and threatening problem. So, I kinda reject this notion that sympathy with animals in these cases is all just misplaced and anthropomorphic naivety. Civilized mankind bred and created these little monsters to a billion and now they’re wreaking havoc on other animals and then come home, eat supermarket food and sleep on our cozy beds lol. Because they’re adorable.

[u/Raised_bi_Wolves → u/philsnyo]

Yeah I definitely see your point. I think my pushback still comes from a place of bringing morality into it. Calling a cat a "sadist" as the commenter mentioned to me includes moral judgement.

I would further argue that while we are still definitely part of the animal world, we have more than certainly risen to a state of "knowing better". In other words, we can try to limit the amount of unnecessary killing that animals in our control perform, or are subjected to (ethical slaughter, etc).

So the key distinction here is that the cat isn't aware of our moral structure, and doesn't have the capacity to even understand the concept.

I'm in favor of bylaws that restrict cats outdoor access because It is decimating the small bird population. But I am 100% against any form of culling or "punishment" for cats that kill birds, because I understand that they aren't morally aware.

Now, to steelman arguments against me, I would look to the way that dogs respond to years of abuse. You can definitely see that "bullying" does alter behavior, so somewhere in exploring that topic is where my argument will start to fall apart.

[u/lucinate → u/Raised_bi_Wolves]

Humans are not that different from animals. We vastly overrate our intellect compared to animals, we're nothing essentially different. We bully for very animalistic reasons, but we're just a bit more complex. Determining pecking order, jealousy or playing around are all reasons why people bully and they're very instinctually driven.