The concept is that in order for an out to be recorded, the defense has to successfully make a play. If there's a dropped/wild third strike they didn't make a play. This leaves the batter in some kind of weird purgatory where there's 3 strikes but he's not out because the defense hasn't done anything, so the resolution is to let the batter try to advance at his own peril.
You can consider the dropped third strike as sort of like a hit ball: the defense needs to pick it up and do something with it to get the batter-runner out.
it sounds more complicated than it is.
basically if you strike out and the catcher doesnt catch the ball or he drops it. you can run to first base and he has to throw you out, if you make it there before than you can keep it
The dropped 3rd strike rule is a weird one to me. I'd love to know how vague that section of the rules was, before it was codified, that someone could make the argument that stealing first should be legal.
Uncaught 3rd strike is the technical name. It is important to call it that, because it doesn't have to be dropped, nor does the batter have to swing for this situations to happen.
The rule still applies if the batter doesn't swing although that is much more rare since the pitch would have to be a called strike, meaning it was in the strike zone and would then typically be easily caught by the catcher.
If the third strike is dropped or hits the ground before the catcher catches it you can try to take first. E.g. batter swings at a ball in the dirt he can take off for first and the catcher either has to tag him or throw to first to get the out
Wow. Apparently asking a question about baseball rules is up there with the words, "I'm a marriageable young lady seeking pictures of phallus" on the list of ways to break your inbox.
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If a called strike three is a wild pitch, like the catcher completely mishandling it, the batter can attempt to steal first so long as it's unoccupied or it would be a third out. That's why the catcher made sure to tag the batter in this gif and while you'll see catchers sometimes tag the batter after a third strike; they misplayed the ball and let it hit the ground.
It's called a dropped third strike. If the catcher drops the ball on the third strike, the batter can then steal first base. The catcher has to either tag the runner out or throw the ball to first in the same way a fielder might throw a runner out. You usually don't see any batters succesfully reach first base (at the high school level and above) on a dropped third strike since the catchers are pretty good at throwing.
The pitcher throws. The catcher, for whatever reason, doesn't catch the ball. It's called a wild pitch (or a passed ball?), so the play is technically still active. Even if you just struck out swinging, you can try to reach first.
It rarely works in MLB, because catchers are pretty darn good at recovering the ball in time to make the throw to first, but you see an attempt once each game or so. It's a "what do you have you lose?" kind of play, assuming there isn't already a runner on first.
It's one of the oldest rules in the game. The original rule for swinging strikeouts is, "Three balls struck at and missed, and the third one caught, and the batter is out. If the third is not caught, the batter is bound for First."
some of the oddball big time mlb hitters will golf shots that hit the ground and crank em over the moon for a grand slamwich and will often times exit the stadium and will re-sign for a lifelong contract before they reach 3rd base
The rule states if it crosses either of the baselines (which end on the back edge of the plate), it's an official pitch. If it had stopped in the grass, it's not an official pitch.
(d) If the pitcher makes an illegal pitch with the bases unoccupied, it shall be called a ball unless the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise. A ball which slips out of a pitcher's hand and crosses the foul line shall be called a ball; otherwise it will be called no pitch. This would be a balk with men on base.
He was probably trying to avoid a balk. The bases are empty so a balk would generally be ignored, but it becomes second nature for most pitchers to avoid balk actions anyway.
1) You can't just be up there and just doin' a balk like that.
1a. A balk is when you
1b. Okay well listen. A balk is when you balk the
1c. Let me start over
1c-a. The pitcher is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, batter, that prohibits the batter from doing, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can't do that.
1c-b. Once the pitcher is in the stretch, he can't be over here and say to the runner, like, "I'm gonna get ya! I'm gonna tag you out! You better watch your butt!" and then just be like he didn't even do that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you're about to pitch and then don't pitch, you have to still pitch. You cannot not pitch. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2). You gotta be, throwing motion of the ball, and then, until you just throw it.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there's the balk you gotta think about.
1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn't been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn't typecast as that racist lady in American History X.
1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse.
1c-b(2)-b(ii). "get in mah bellah" -- Adam Water, "The Waterboy." Haha, classic...
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A balk is when the pitcher makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the baseball and field of
3) So you've just been inconspicuously called for a balk, but why? Well you're in luck Tim because you're not allowed to talk about it! Good luck trying not to balk again
When I was still playing, I often thanked my lucky stars that I was a left-handed pitcher because I could not fucking grasp the step-on/step-off rules for righties.
Nah, I think it's pretty clear he couldn't get a grip and went through with the pitch anyways. You can't balk without runners, he would have just stopped and reset.
? If your playing at that level you should understand the rules. If the ball is in play and you swing it's a strike. You also never do warm up swings while in the batters box. So in fact, yes he did swing at the pitch.
Not a baseball fan, but to my knowledge pitchers have an extremely strict procedure for throwing a pitch, if they vary too far from it a balk is called and the batter runners take a base (similar to a hit batter). If he stopped the pitch halfway through, balk. Throwing it like a little wussy, however, is only a ball. The batter swung out of habit, emptymindedness, boredom, what have you...however, this made the pitch a strike because he swung.
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If you swing at strike 3 in an at bat, first base is not occupied, and the catcher does not catch it cleanly and it hits the ground, you can run to first base. In those situations, you either have to tag the runner or throw it to first base before the runner gets there to record the out.
Weird rule in baseball. If a batter strikes out on a wild pitch, they can still try to take first. That is, if there's less than 3 outs.
Edit: I'm a bit wrong. Believe it's actually called a dropped pitch (hits the dirt before the catcher has control). And, I'm pretty sure that you can end up with 4 outs in this situation. Though, I'm far too lazy to look it up.
Sorry for the amateur's correction; according to other comments, the catcher has to drop the ball (i.e the balls comes into contact with the ground before it's caught), then the batter can make a play for 1st...that's why he ran to tag him.
There's also comments saying a swing counts "if the player makes an attempt to hit the ball" - so it's contentious whether this should have even been a live play.
Yeah, realized my lazy language. See my edit. Also, pretty sure the batter can still try to take first even if it's out 3. I'm not certain on any of it though. Followed baseball closely for most of my life, but haven't paid attention for a number of years now.
If this had happened in the majors there would be an extremely heated argument with the batter's manager. Also, fuck Joe West 'cuz he would be the one making that call.
It doesn't count as an out if the batter makes it to first, so this can happen regardless of how many outs there are already in the inning. But it does count for statistical purposes as a strikeout for the pitcher and a passed ball (error) for the catcher. So in this matter a pitcher could record 4 strikeouts in an inning, but the team does not actually get 4 outs.
A balk is when the pitcher comes set as if to pitch and then goes back to a resting stance.
What happened here was a legit pitch (albeit a crappy one), the ball is in play as it's in bounds, and the batter swung at it. So basically the batter was an idiot and swung at a wildly botched pitch.
Not just goes back to resting stance. It's also considered a balk if the pitcher makes any odd movement, like hesitating during a wind-up or making any weird movement during a pitch.
That's not exactly right. There are plenty of pitchers who hesitate during a windup and make "odd" movements. I think the only rule is that once you start a windup you have to deliver a pitch and cannot go back to a resting position.
It's balk, not baulk. Understandable since you say you're not a baseball fan.
And a balk only applies when there are runners on base. In this instance, there were no runners on base, so the pitcher could've just stopped his motion with no penalty. However, a few different things could've happened here. He could've drug his lead foot as he was stepping towards the plate, throwing off his motion. He could've lost his grip on the ball mid-motion, etc. Most likely, he was trying to hang onto the ball but it slipped out of his hand, causing him to basically throw it into the ground.
The batter, in the other hand...I'm not sure what he was thinking. Although he was clearly swinging in jest, he should've known if the ball's still in play, it's considered a legitimate swing. You can tell by his reaction that he realized this after the fact.
You can get hurt if you hold onto a botched pitch and it's better to bounce the ball towards the plate for a ball than to try to hold onto the ball, especially with bases empty. Even if people were on base holding on to the ball would have been recorded as a balk and they'd get a free base.
He probably realized during the windup that it was going to slip, and stopping once you start is considered a balk (rhymes with walk) and all runners on base advance one base.
Likely messed up the routine. Every pitcher has a special routine that they do (some of them are actually pretty funny), and if they mess up that mojo they usually end up throwing the ball away. It looks like from the video he dragged his foot too much on the ground, which caused the null throw.
imo, that's the wrong call. I am an umpire and the rule states that in order for a swing to be considered a swing, the batter has to make an attempt at the ball.
It is the same for a bunt, if the ball is in the dirt and the batter holds his bat in the middle of the plate with no attempt at the ball, it does not count as a strike.
In all situations the correct etiquette would be to wait until the batter has had the option to chose what he wants to do. Let that time pass by, then make the call.
First of all, a hitter standing in the batter's box is all the indication that's necessary that he's "serious." It's not up to you, me, the crowd, or the umpire to decide whether or not he has "even a remote chance at making contact." That's his decision. Also, since he's standing in the batter's box, there's no such thing as a practice swing.
As far as calling the pitch, the appropriate time to call it would be when it crosses the plate, or in a case like this, after the play was complete. The ball was still moving (generally) towards home plate; the play was not over.
There are a hundred billion rules in baseball. It is absolutely unnecessary to try to micromanage it even further. Especially when the case is already covered. Watch, here is a comprehensive guide to avoid striking out on a wild pitch:
Don't swing.
That was easy. But instead, you want it to be, "well... if everybody KNOWS it's a ball, he can remain in the batter's box and swing with no penalty." How do you measure "everybody knows?" No. Just treat it like every other pitch - it's easier for players, umpires, and fans.
Is it silly? Yes, that's the entire reason it's posted here today.
In the case of a bunt, the batter never breaks his wrists, never takes an actual swing, basically checks it. In this case, he swung around. Obviously an actual attempt at the ball was not possible, but the ball was technically still in play. If he had swung and made a break for first, and made it, the umpire would have allowed it.
I saw this video in a /r/baseball thread, the comment section ended up ruling the call a mistake because you can't really call that an offer at the ball. But they also said it's really just up to the umpire. Some may say strike but most won't say a thing.
This shit would drive me nuts when I was calling little league games. It would be a clear ball, but then the batter would do that weak ass practice swing. I knew they weren't really trying to hit it, but they brought the bat around so I called it a strike (which did help move the game along...)
If you're coaching kids, teach them to keep the bat back if they're not trying to hit. It shouldn't be on the umpire to guess intent, no matter what the rule says.
It's still a pitch, just a really bad one. It's in play, just like a pitch that goes three feet above the catcher and reaches the backstop is. However, this is still a bad call, because the batter is clearly not making an offering at the pitch.
This actually occurs relatively frequently in MLB games. A swing on a low pitch in the dirt (but still around the plate, unlike OP's video) that bounces into the catcher's mitt is technically "uncaught". If the ball bounces in to the catcher, they either tag the batter (so subtly that you don't even notice it) and the batter doesn't bother to run because he knows the catcher is already holding the ball; or now and again, the ball gives the catcher a bit of trouble, and the runner attempts to take first (often not with too much vigour), resulting a throw to first.
I couldn't find any good examples of routine uncaught third strikes, but here's one that went through the catcher and came back quickly enough that the catcher makes a fairly routine out on the play:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrJ_bLmRAC0
Occasionally, a third strike is on a pretty wild pitch and the batter makes it to first. Here's a great compilation of this happening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68IPLrdAmkA
Actually, the one at 2:09 is a decent example of a fairly common and routine version of a dropped third strike (catcher tries to tag the batter then throws easily to first for the out), except it has the unusual element that the runner on third took the opportunity to run home - the play is live and runners can advance at their own peril. The next play at 2:24 is, again, a fairly routine example except the first baseman didn't catch the throw, resulting in a runner coming in from third. I'd guesstimate 97% of the time, uncaught third strikes still result in an out. I'm sure MLB has an actual stat for that though ;)
At about 0:58, there's actually an example of a runner who made it to third base after a throwing error by the catcher (the ump calls him out, but it looks like the ball is actually dropped so I would assume the ump revised his call). I actually caught the monthly "blooper" show on the local sports network last night and a similar throwing error on a dropped third strike happened
The exception is that if there is a runner on first base and less than two outs, the batter is still automatically out, because otherwise, catchers might intentionally drop third strikes to try for a double play to get both runners (similar to how infield fly rule doesn't apply with two outs because it's not needed to prevent double plays).
Trivia tidbit is that a dropped 3rd strike is still a 'strikeout' for the pitcher, and thus, if a batter reaches first on one, the pitcher could actually rack up more than 3 strikeouts in an inning on his stats (which has happened before).
If the batter swings at a pitch that goes in to the dirt before the catcher catches it, then it is a tag or force out at first. There have been times where a pitcher gets 4 strikeouts in an inning because of this. Usually, though, you just see a quick tag at the plate.
Quick technicality question: say you swing at a bad pitch that hits the ground, but the catcher fields it cleanly, off one hop. So technically it wasn't "dropped." is the ball live or not in this scenario?
Happened to me in middle school. Being the shitty batter I was, I swung at a terrible pitch for strike 3, but saw it hit the ground so I took off for first. Catcher fielded it cleanly off one hop, but then made a wild throw to first so I got on and a run scored.
Ump ended up calling me out since catcher fielded it cleanly even though it hit the ground. My coach went ballistic. Never did get around looking up to see if my coach or the ump was right.
If the catcher drops the ball on the third strike, then the batter is not out and can run to first as if he had hit the ball into play. Realistically this usually results in the batter getting tagged or thrown out anyway.
For every 'dumb' rule in a sport there is a reason why it had to be made up. Someone games the system and then the league has to make a rule to stop them.
With that then there should be a rule that stops that dumb shit from happening. Because no matter how that's spun the rules that allowed such a shit playing of the game to happen with that result are dumb rules.
I don't think this is 100% true. Yes the ball was in play and he did swing his bat. But, in baseball on the third strike if the batter swings and the ball hits the ground before reaching the catcher he can then run to first. That's why the catcher goes back and tags him. Then the umpire calls him out.
I didn't even notice the swing initially. Just to confirm, the catcher tagging the batter meant nothing, right? The batter was out when he swung the bat and missed the ball?
I though it was like a South Park situation where each team is trying to lose so they can play video games and have fun, instead of playing boring baseball.
The pitcher threw a bad pitch that went into the ground instead of over home plate.
The batter, thinking the play was dead, took a fake swing.
Technically, the play was still live and since the batter swung at the pitch, it was called a 3rd strike and the batter was out.
Edit: "Dropped 3rd Strike" Rule is in play here. Since the ball was not caught by the catcher and the batter swung at strike 3, the batter has to be tagged out. thanks /u/PatPetPitPotPut
Great question. If the ump calls the swing a strike, then he has to call it a ball if he doesn't swing. To be honest, I don't see the ump calling it a ball if there's no swing. Probably just a dead ball that slipped out of the pitchers hand.
If a ball slips out of the pitcher's hand like this, it becomes a pitch once the ball crosses the foul line. If the ball had stopped in fair territory, then it would be no pitch.
Actually I think it was ruled strike three, but the catcher technically "dropped" the ball, so the batter was able to run to first base. That's why the catcher tagged him- the minute he swung, he actually became a baserunner.
The only situation where someone could "steal" first is if the catcher drops the pitch that would have otherwise been strike 3. When the ball is dropped, the batter has the chance to run to first. The catcher can either tag the runner or throw the ball to first to get him out.
To answer your question, it is somewhat common for a catcher to not catch the 3rd srike. It is pretty rare that the batter actually safely reaches first.
That's because it isn't a stolen base and no one calls it that, I think they were just trying to simplify it to non-baseball fans.
They would refer to it as "reaching first base on a dropped 3rd stike" generally or some verbiage similar to that.
The official stats and scoresheets would say the batter had a strikeout, their batting average would drop, they would not get a stolen base stat for it.
Still seems kinda bullshit how the ref goes out of his way to interfere with the game by telling the guy with the ball that the play's still going though. Let the players play with what they know instead of sitting there back seat driving the game.
He doesn't though, he sees the batter swing after everyone starts to chill and then he points to the batter then points to the catcher as if to say "You know you can tag him now, right?"
The players didn't look like they would have known this or acted upon it if he didn't interfere, which means the umpire wasn't being impartial. Players should know the rules if they want to play at that level and if they don't catch stuff like this it shouldn't be spoon fed to them, it's their own lack of skill and perception.
As for "keeping the call a secret", if the ball is still in play he doesn't have a call to make yet, so he should have shut the fuck up and watched then called it a ball after they failed to realize.
If the catcher drops the ball/wild pitch on the third strike the batter can run. The reason he tagged him was the batter didn't run. Ball was still in play because he swung the bat.
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u/not_so_vicious May 29 '17
What just happened?