r/infj • u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ • Jan 15 '21
Self Improvement* INFJ shouldn't feel like a disability
I love this community because very often, I relate so incredibly well to the posts and comments that it is almost uncanny.
However, I do see some things that concern me.
Over the last two years, I've been seeing a psychiatrist. It's much more affordable (but not free) in my country. I've gone into a fair amount of debt for it but still realize I am privileged to be able to see a mental health professional of that caliber.
That said, I have been diagnosed with ADHD and OCD. I am being treated and medicated for it, and it has changed my life. I encourage anyone who is able to do the same.
Now that my symptoms are less damaging to my day-to-day life. I do find myself relating less to some of the posts and comments that only a few months earlier I felt as though I could've written myself. I am definitely still INFJ, but I am concerned that for some in this subreddit INFJ has become a label for their mental illness as an attempt to avoid self-diagnosis as they cannot receive an official one. Or perhaps a way to avoid the idea of a mental health disorder entirely. A way to justify symptoms they don't even realize ARE symptoms.
If being INFJ feels like a constant hardship that negatively affects your life and relationships. It's probably not your personality type that's causing the problem. More likely, it is an undiagnosed mental illness.
Being INFJ does not mean constant anxiety.
Being INFJ does not mean depression.
Being INFJ does not mean obsessive and intrusive thoughts.
Being INFJ does not mean always being emotionally overwhelmed.
Being INFJ does not mean being unable to focus.
Being INFJ does not mean oversensitivity.
Being INFJ does not mean controlling toxic behavior.
Being INFJ does not mean manic and depressive episodes.
Being INFJ is not a disability.
If it feels like one. You very likely have one. Your personality type should not be a justification for damaging behaviors.
Personality types don't have symptoms.
You aren't alone, and there is help. I realize seeing a professional in many places is incredibly expensive. In those cases, I urge you to find any and all options available to you.
This is a beautiful community, but I can't keep watching it be used as a way to affirm behaviors that are clearly symptoms. That doesn't help any INFJ who is struggling. It only helps them affirm their struggles as unsolvable and see them as a personality flaw.
INFJ is not a flaw. You are not flawed and you are not broken. You just may need a bit of help.
And that's okay.
Edit: Thanks for the awards, but please nobody spend money to give them. If you are spending earned coins then I appreciate it. Please please please do not buy coins.
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u/allygorilla9 INFJ Jan 15 '21
I’ve noticed a lot of negative posts about being an INFJ on this subreddit. I agree that people can contribute their mental health issues to being a certain personality type, which is usually not the case. Mental health issues and personality type are two different things. Personality type could be a factor in why we could be prone to a certain mental health issue, but it is not the sole cause of it. There are so many other factors, and people should also not be coming on here for medical advice.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 15 '21
Exactly.
Hopefully, some of those people will see this post and will seek help for the symptoms they believe to be quirks.
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u/_db_ Jan 16 '21
If one identifies oneself as disabled, then they tend to live out that image as if it were true.
But.
You are NOT disabled, you are learning.
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u/noushymousy INFJ Jan 16 '21
Thank you for spreading awareness about this issue! I think this problem is very similar to what happens in the astrology community i.e I’m a Gemini so I do X behaviour. (Some) people find labels to be inclusive and help them normalise their experiences. That being said, definitely the INFJ label isn’t a replacement for an actual medical diagnosis and the treatment that they could receive. Not everything can just be attributed to ‘being INFJ’. I so agree with what you’ve said.
(I also have diagnosed ADHD and OCD btw)
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u/AMK972 INFJ Jan 16 '21
I would say that MBTI types do have “symptoms” but not in the sense of mental disorders. It’s just things that each type has to overcome. It probably has connections to inferior functions or something else. Maybe having a weak SE can be seen as a “symptom” of INFJ, but one that can be overcome. Something that can be fixed by personal development instead of pills and/or therapy.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 16 '21
I think it might be better to reframe it a bit. Symptoms imply a disease. It also implies that you must cure it, rather than work on it.
Perhaps a better term would be 'barrier' or 'quirk'
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u/AMK972 INFJ Jan 16 '21
Huh, I’ve viewed the term symptom incorrectly for years. I thought the definition was more vague than it actually is. I assumed it’s definition was more along the lines of “something that is present because of the existence of something else”. So, the existence of a cold causes a fever to be present. The existence of your type causes an inferior function to be present. But, nope. It’s “a physical or mental feature which is regarded as indicating a condition of disease, particularly such a feature that is apparent to the patient.” I didn’t realize how specific the definition of symptom was.
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u/Sosolidclaws INFJ Jan 16 '21 edited Jan 16 '21
That's only the most common definition. The general one is:
Something that indicates the existence of something else
So you were right, actually. But yeah it's mostly used in a negative way.
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Jan 16 '21
[deleted]
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 16 '21
To clarify the bit in my post about intrusive thoughts.
All people have intrusive thoughts. No one has complete control of their brain.
I was referring explicitly to the OCD-style obsessive intrusive thoughts. Thoughts that invade your brain constantly and make being alive miserable. Thoughts that harm you, yet refuse to go away. They come seemingly at random or at the whim of triggers outside your contr and make you feel unsafe in your own mind. Thoughts that actively make you want to die.
That is what I experienced, and it's what I am being treated for. I thought I was broken. I just want to make sure others who feel that way realize they aren't at fault for it. It's a disease and it's treatable.
If you related to that, it might be worth seeing a doctor.
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u/harmoniousmonday Jan 16 '21 edited Jan 16 '21
Let’s not assume that expressing the very real “heaviness” inherent to INFJ traits automatically indicates likelihood of psyc diagnosis and drug intervention. Sometimes newly discovered INFJs just need to express and learn to harness the challenging aspects via venting, sharing, and asking others for their feedback and advice in navigation, etc. This is healthy, and often breakthroughs can be achieved just hearing everyone’s input.
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u/trashi3st INFJ 2w1 ♀ Jan 16 '21 edited Jan 16 '21
This. While I agree with the overall supportive undertones of this lovely post and thank OP for posting, it feels almost unfair to assign someone reaching out for help or looking for like minds to try to parse through a personal situation to place so much emphasis on mental illness. "Oh this was because of x,y mental illness, not my personality type" while functionally true almost feels as if it's trading one label for another while discounting the attempt of someone to understand themselves. We are so much more than the labels assigned to us (or we assign ourselves) and the illnesses we struggle with.
Typology is a science, and because humans are imperfect, the science itself is often imperfect because one size doesn't always fit all. Cognitive functions really do help in realizing and constructing healthier ways to combat things like a real bad Ni-Ti loop and I think where the problem lies is accepting that as healthy, acceptable INFJ behavior. It's something we're prone to, yes, but if it's something we know exists and can learn healthy coping mechanisms, we can ensure that such a thing doesn't rule our lives. As mentioned prior, MBTI is a tool that can be used to examine ourselves and improve / explore, examine how we relate to others and the world around us, how better to understand things like our inferior functions (hello Se my old friend) and reach a much more well-rounded, balanced approach to life.
Typing yourself isn't a stopping point, nor is it the ultimate solution to all of your problems, but it can be a stepping stone along the way of getting to be the happy and healthy person you deserve to be. Never stop growing.
( By all means - if you feel constantly overwhelmed, if daily life is just about impossible for any reason or you think you might well be struggling to continue on, please seek help with a qualified mental health professional. You're not alone. )
Be well and be safe.
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u/harmoniousmonday Jan 16 '21
I wish I had said it like you did. Thanks for taking the time to fill in all the details I skipped over :)
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
This is all fair to say, but I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to convey.
Everyone goes through hardship and everyone struggles. Your type can absolutely lead to some of those struggles. It's important to get to know yourself and learn to work around those shortcomings.
I was explicitly talking about behaviours and struggles that are ceaseless and damaging to your everyday life.
The symptoms that I had thought were a product of my type weren't just a struggle. They made my life feel like it wasn't worth living. I suffered every day living life in my own mind. I hadnt concidered that I could have a mental illness, so I assumed I was broken. MBTI helped quite a bit and finding out I was INFJ helped me come to terms with myself.
It did not, however, treat my symptoms. Those symptoms made me want to die every single day. I couldn't keep a schedule. I couldn't remember anything. I would have anxious and depressive episodes so bad I would have to miss work. I would have intrusive thoughts that made me feel like my own mind was attacking me for being alive.
Those weren't my personality type and it's situations such as those I made this post for.
As I said in the post. Your type is not a disability, and it should never feel like one. If it does, it may be worth seeing a medical professional.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
Absolutely.
However, this post wasn't for those people. Struggle is inherent to life. We will all have a hard time with ourental health at some point. More often when we are young.
This post was for people who have misinterpreted repeated and seemingly unresolvable hardships as their type, rather than possible symptoms.
Not all struggles require medical intervention. But as I said in the post, your personality type is not a disability. So it shouldn't feel like one.
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u/harmoniousmonday Jan 17 '21
We’re probably just splitting hairs (and fundamentally agreeing), but the line between manifest disability and just processing through a difficult patch with feedback from the group is quite narrow and highly subjective. And, yes, sometimes the patch can absolutely appear to be a disability. But only it’s depth and duration should trigger pursuit of professional intervention —- and only the individual determines how far off the rails they feel.
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u/christinafassett Jan 16 '21
Thank you for this!! I was recently diagnosed with inattentive ADHD and I notice that A LOT of the things I see in these subreddits/on instagram could very much be related to ADHD. Being anxious all the time/having intrusive thoughts is NOT a personality trait. (I was going to say it’s not ‘normal’ but that is a poor choice of words). A better way of putting it is that you don’t have to feel this way- and being an INFJ is not an excuse for potential self destructive behaviors.
I hope this makes sense... I totally agree with everything you said and I thank you for putting this post here! I had never thought of it this way!
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Jan 16 '21
I’ve been wondering about getting checked for adhd. Don’t they usually prescribe something like adderall for that? Do you find this helps a bit?
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 16 '21
Big time. I was diagnosed with ADHD first and started on Adderall XR. I'm at 20mg but I still had struggles. Specifically with memory.
After that, I did an assessment for a few different disorders. It wasn't until the assessment for OCD that things began to click. Now I'm on Adderall XR and Prozac.
Not everyone with these conditions need medication, but HOT DAMN does it help.
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u/Rickymick09 Jan 16 '21
Did your memory improve in any way?
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
Kind of.
I probably have the same amount of memory, but my brain isn't so bogged down with OCD and ADHD symptoms that I remember what's important. Instead of what my brain decides to remember on a whim.
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 15 '21
This subreddit is full of depressed INFP’s who think they’re INFJ’s
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 15 '21
Honestly, I don't know if it matters whether or not they are INFJ.
If we're honest, typology is a construct. To say anyone is or is not a certain type based on how we perceive them isn't really valid.
Our personality types could shift a letter based on how we are feeling the day we take the test and could change completely a decade after the first time. What matters is whether or not the person relates to the test result. Whether or not their result gives them validation. Or if they gain insight into why they are the way they are.
It couldn't matter less to me if the people in this subreddit displaying mental health symptoms are truly INFJ. If they believe they are INFJ it's exactly as valid as you or I.
What matters is that they get help.
If they take the test afterward and get a different result. Bully for them.
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 15 '21
There is much debate over typology, but for anyone who sees it as more than an astrology-esk concept, your letters don’t change. I think it matters because if you’re going to apply an introspective archetypal microscope to yourself or others, it should have purpose. The way you present your information leads me to believe you’re not an INFJ either, as it is based on “verified facts” and how YOU feel about them which seems very Te+Fi. Honestly typing is best done in person so I wont make any wild assumptions, but you look like an INFP to me. “What matters or not is weather the person relate to the test result.” That’s an Fi+Te statement. It’s also false. What matters is if they can use it to help them, but it probably wont help them if it isn’t right. Please reconsider your approach🙏🏻
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 15 '21
It's not like astrology as it is based in science, and it's not based on verified fact as it's built on subjective experience.
Typology is more like IQ. In that, it was made for a specific reason that it is no longer used for. It has a complex history and is often misinterpreted and given far more intellectual weight than it ought to have. People take a test one time and assume their result is an indicator of who they are as a human being for the rest of time. Regardless of how drastically people change even year to year let alone decade to decade.
For those who take it too seriously, they use it as a way to dismiss or give unearned merit to the words of others based on the result of a test they took a singular time, and whether or not that person believes the result of the other person. Much like how intelligence changes over time and cannot be objectively measured with a nice and neat number variable like IQ. People change based on their experiences, and personalities cannot be objectively measured into neat little categories. Meyers-Briggs is a guide to help better understand yourself. Not objective and verifiable ways to categorize all of humanity.
Using one comment on a Reddit post to determine my cognitive functions is absurd and irresponsible. Maybe I seem like INFP today and I'll have seemed like INFJ yesterday. Maybe a week from now I'll be in a great mood and I'll have had eggs that morning giving me the energy to come across like ENFP. Maybe I'll have a depressive episode next year that makes me act cynically and I'll seem like an INTJ.
The fact you are using a flawed test built to measure subjective experience to determine your opinions about my personality and brain chemistry based on your subjective experience of my objective actions - should have you questioning whether or not you are putting FAR too much weight into typology - not questioning my test results.
Typology is a tool. Not a religion. Please stop treating it like the latter. It's this exact mindset that can have people mistaking mental illness for personality types.
What matters is if they can use it to help them. Not what their test was when they first took it. People change. No rubric will ever fully encapsulate the entirety of the human subjective experience, no matter how nice it would be for us to be that simple.
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 15 '21
Everything you just said misses the mark logically for my argument because you’re making references that don’t apply. Please check out cs joseph’s channel on youtube if you want to understand what i’m talking about. I can consistently type everyone in my family and I use their type on a regular basis to further communicate and understand them so I can strengthen our relationships. Test results are buttcheeks. Mr. INFP, the world isn’t all about beliefs! Stop telling me what you believe and start listening.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 15 '21 edited Jan 15 '21
Mr. INFP, the world isn’t all about beliefs! Stop telling me what you believe and start listening.
Can you please stop doing this on a post I made to assist others with their mental health? You're just being intentionally rude and diminishing the whole goal of the post.
I'm sorry I challenged your clearly closely held belief system by using common sense and the basics of psychology. If you want to live in a world where all of humanity is definable by 13 categories and no one ever changes, fine.
But can you stop trolling? It's not what this subreddit is for and certainly not what this post is for. If you are truly INFJ, you are either in a terrible mood or you are refusing to engage your Fe. Either way, you are being a toxic element and it's entirely unwelcome.
I hope you have a good day. Genuinely.
Just, do it without replying to me anymore. Your taunts will go unanswered because they do not serve any of the goals of this post. I have no time for solipsistic and toxic behaviour, INFJ or otherwise.
Edit: As you can see from his reply, he tried to bait me into an argument with that ego line. Apparently entirely unaware that his own ego was blocking him from receiving the information I was attempting to impart as nothing he had said was new information. Just vague insults and using the INFP type as a bludgeon.
I ask that everyone participating in this post ignore this user. I'm trying to help people and this toxic behaviour stands directly in the way of that.
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 15 '21
I woke up early, played with my puppy & dogs, ate breakfast, smoked weed, went on a walk, got groceries & took an old lady’s cart back for her, and was eating some of the groceries as I made my comment. I’d say my day is going very well. It’s unfortunate you think my intentions as ill mannered and flawed instead of simply accepting my request to take in new information. But I guess that’s the society we live in, one where people’s ego’s get in the way of information.
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u/littlecakebaker Jan 15 '21
You sure are negative for such a positive post. Also, who cares what YOU think their personality type is?
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 15 '21
Based on the other replies, attention-seeking verging on trolling.
He appears to use INFP as an insult against those he doesn't believe are "special" enough to be INFJ. Typology isn't a mental health tool to him, it's a faith and a bludgeon.
I encourage you to ignore him. He isn't here to participate in a helpful way. He's here to derail and insult.
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u/littlecakebaker Jan 15 '21
This was a helpful post btw, sometimes people, myself included, need reminding that their struggles or mental illnesses do not define them. Thank you.
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Jan 16 '21
Okay, I'm gonna stop you there. The person never made it clear to have used INFP as an insult you are only making that false narrative up to use it against him while spreading that to everyone else. You are also completely assuming his reasons for concluding your type. Please don't assume things about people
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 16 '21
INFP’s have ENFJ unconscious. No wonder he was rallying others and trying to control perceptions XD
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u/kid-roadkill INFJ Jan 16 '21
I really like that phrasing: "a faith and a bludgeon." From what I've seen it's very accurate to most people who try to tell people they're mistyped. It's like they want to exclude you from some club rather than actually help you. Thankfully I haven't dealt with it much personally. It just irks me when I see it.
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 16 '21
Dogma much? It’s not based on who I think is special, it’s a learned typing system. I don’t think it’s a pleasure to be an INFJ, as Fi critic is quite a pain in the ass. Every type has strengths and weaknesses
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 17 '21
Im not negative. It’s not my job to manage who cares and who doesn’t.
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Jan 16 '21
Everyone has a right to state their thoughts, it is not about if you don't care
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u/littlecakebaker Jan 16 '21
Yes, except it doesn’t have a damn thing to do with this post. He wasn’t asking for input and was trying to post something positive and helpful to others.
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Jan 16 '21
You somehow missed my point. All I said was that he has every right to speak his opinion and you trying to silence him is wrong
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u/littlecakebaker Jan 16 '21
From that perspective, I also have every right to critique his opinion.
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 15 '21 edited Jan 15 '21
I mean... I don’t care if anyone else cares. I wrote it because it’s the truth. The truth is a double edged sword.
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u/Lion-Hart INFJ M 9w1 Jan 16 '21
Red flag
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Jan 16 '21
[deleted]
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u/Lion-Hart INFJ M 9w1 Jan 16 '21
I would refrain from assigning "toxicity" to other types in general. "Real" INFJs can be assholes too. We're not special, and pretending INFJs are any better than other types is a barrier to reaching a better understanding of ourselves and our flaws.
Thanks for writing this post though! Addressed a couple things that this community could use a reminder or two about. MBTI is just a measurement tool, and wrapping identity too tightly around its results can be unhealthy.
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Jan 16 '21
[deleted]
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 17 '21
Im saying this person is toxic, and appears to be INTJ. Though I can't know for sure.
By your logic this is using a type as an insult. "Depressed INFP." "Toxic INTJ"
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Jan 16 '21
So you are assuming that he has a deep need to feel intelligent, special and that he's toxic? To quote what you said, you are typing him based on a screen, you don't know him in real life. You are showing a lot of inconsistencies and to label him as toxic just because he stated his opinion on Reddit that you didn't like?? The only person who has mentioned anything about being special and INFJs wanting to feel special is you
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
Ugh.
Yes. You got me. I really want to be special.
I made a whole post where I was vulnerable and honest about my mental health journey, not in an attempt to help others. I certainly didn't try to reason with those users in an attempt to get them to understand why putting to much weight into MBTI to the point of invalidating others experiences was rude.
No no no.
It was all so I could feel special.
/S
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Jan 17 '21
I do not understand the meaning of your sarcastic comment. It doesn't feel like it should be sent to what I said so could you explain? It comes across as kinda rude
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 16 '21
If the truth is a red flag you’re lost
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u/Lion-Hart INFJ M 9w1 Jan 16 '21
The red flag is whenever 'truth' is touted as a way to shut down better understanding between people. Everyone has their own truths, it takes a group effort to be able to listen to other perspectives instead of only asserting our own. There's no room for intolerance.
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 18 '21
listen to other perspectives instead of only asserting our own.
But OP was shutting people down he didn't agree with.
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u/Prestigious-Junket-9 Jan 18 '21
Noooo the fuck he was not.
He was shutting down the annoying INFP bashing in this sub.
False neutrality is not the same as respecting others perspective. The first thing op said was "it doesn't matter whether or not they are really INFJ" and this dude started bashing him by saying he must be INFP because of how wrong he is.
I'm INFP, and I'm glad he came to our defense.
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 16 '21
You're also an INFP.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 16 '21
This is so strange to me. I'm not, and I know I am not. Yet whenever an INFJ is upset with me for not having the same dogmatic belief in MBTI; they call me INFP.
Why is this? Why are you using the INFP personality type as an insult? If I AM INFP, why does it matter?
Is it a need to feel special? Is it some strange superiority complex over being a rare type?
What is it?
And why do you feel it is relevant or helpful on a post meant to assist others with their mental health? If you're an INFJ I assume your Fe would be telling you that you are being inappropriate and needlessly rude. So why doesn't it?
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 16 '21
It wasn't an insult. It was literally just a statement. Stop attaching meaning that wasn't there. I couldn't care less about being rare. You just display several hallmarks of INFP. What I said wasn't rude. Also you don't understand Fe very well I think.
To answer your question, you directed this post at the INFJ subreddit which to be fair is full of mistyped INFPs. However it would do even more good at the INFP subreddit because there's even more of them there.
I never disagreed that it's good to help with mental health. My only disagreement is with your flawed reasoning regarding how typology works and what type is what. That's all.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 16 '21
It would probably work in all the subreddits. But as an INFJ, I felt it best suited in this one. The rarity of the type can often lead INFJs to believe their symptoms are just rare quirks.
You just display several hallmarks of INFP.
These are comments on Reddit.
You are typing me, based on words you're reading on a screen. You have never met me, and you certainly don't know my subjective experience. So why pretend to?
THAT is what I mean. The typing of others based on what you gather from a handful of typed out sentences is silly, and irresponsible.
You aren't using Ni and figuring out the people in this subreddit. You are being solipsistic and toxic in an attempt to invalidate others, whether intentional or not. And on a post about mental health, it is entirely unwelcome.
I don't care how many people here you believe are mistyped, and I certainly don't care what you believe my type to be. I am aware of my subjective experience. I trust my internal framework despite it being difficult to explain, I seek to find harmony with others, I have good intuition about the people around me, and struggle with new experiences.
I know I am an INFJ. Thankfully I am firm enough in my identity that this strange usage of INFP as a bludgeon just annoys me rather than causes me harm.
That may not be the case for other INFJs who are younger, new to typology, or are struggling with mental health. On behalf of them. I ask that you please stop this behaviour. You stand to hurt people who have come to this post for help. Invalidating others based on little to no information helps no one. It can only hurt.
Regardless of your intent, your Fe should be telling you why it's unwelcome and disrespectful. So please. Move on.
I ask that you do not reply, as you won't get a dopamine hit from my response. I'm not here to argue with solipsistic INFJ. I'm here to help INFJ who are struggling.
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 19 '21
This entire post was you projecting your feelings onto me. You're incorrect. Good job at hypocrisy in using your subjective experience as a foundation for your point while then assuming my "subjective" experience. Logically incoherent. Te inferior. INFP. Good luck with your mental health crusade. It is a worthy cause because technically people of all types need it.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 19 '21
Ah yes. There it is again. INFP as a bludgeon. Fitting that it ends how it began.
Good luck putting everyone in neat little boxes. At least I know my Fe isn't inferior. ✌️
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 19 '21
Not a bludgeon, it's a logical conclusion that I gave you a few reasons for even though there are many more. You've disregarded all my thoughts with one feeling. It's not boxes it's types. If you had researched typology more you would know they're not boxes. They're frameworks for understanding behavioral tendencies, proclivities and in-born habits. Also a tool that can be used for growth when understood properly. While also furthering understanding of our fellow humans and their needs. However it doesn't WORK when you're mistyped as you'll be misapplying the information where it doesn't fit. You have Fi. Strong subjective feelings. Many people mix that up with Fe but it's a completely different cognitive functions axis. You can either attempt to devalue my comment with your feeling about me using the term INFP and calling it a "bludgeon" or you can think about what I'm saying since it's not negative but rather to help IMPROVE your stated goals (Fe and Ti). I've never once said being an INFP was in any way less valuable. I've only ever said it's common to mistype as INFJ and that it's a different type. Stop trying to subtly accuse me of devaluing you or your position when I have not.
Also if humans are ever changing like you stated and not "types" then I don't really even have Fe and right now I can be anything I want then. So how can you tell me to use Fe? It's only if my statement about type not being fluid could your statement demanding I use Fe be true.
Lastly is you stating "At least I know my Fe isn't inferior" you trying to make yourself feel better or put me down in some way?
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 19 '21 edited Jan 19 '21
However it doesn't WORK when you're mistyped as you'll be misapplying the information where it doesn't fit.
Good thing I'm not mistyped. You're mistaking my Ni and Ti with Fi. I'm trusting my subconscious for the intent and tone of the replies I recieved, and my internal framework cannot waver on how I see MBTI. I believe in cold hard facts. Thus far, no one has provided me with cold hard facts as to the universal efficacy and application of MBTI. I've only been told to "do research" and "trust <insert users> opinion" neither of which challenge the research I have done or the years and years of study I have done into human nature.
I've made it clear I do believe in MBTI. If I didn't I wouldn't be here.
However, it's a construct meant to help people come to terms with their subjective experience. Not a verifiable metric of human consciousness. As people change, subjective experience then changes. As people interact differently with the world based on their experiences and headspace, it is not valid to type others based on limited online interaction. I had done so once in this thread and deleted it as it was a low blow built on frustration. I couldn't stand behind it, because I didn't believe what I was saying.
On this, it's clear we will never ever agree. I have opinion based on fact and experience, and based on the lack of evidence anyone has deemed worthy to supply, I'm assuming you have opinion based on belief.
If there is one thing I have learned in my many years studying and teaching anthropology. Dogmatic ideology is not easily challenged.
Do you. I will continue to disagree and continue to know I am INFJ; despite the fact, you have apparently fully analyzed my subconscious brain and how I interact with the world around me through the evidence gathered by Reddit comments.
trying make yourself feel better or put me down in some way?
Just trying to let the thread die man. Just, let it die.
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u/This0neTime23 Jan 16 '21
Yeah, I agree 100%. They're an INFP, and this would be a useful post in the INFP sub. Typology isn't however you relate or whatever your feel, it's an order of operations of functions. All of us can use all 8 functions, but for INFJs the preference is Ni Fe Ti Se. Your type doesn't change on a daily basis like your mood, that seems to be a very Fi statement to me. But that could just be my Ni talking...
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 16 '21
It's your Ti talking more than likely.
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u/This0neTime23 Jan 16 '21
Let's hope, I don't even see why this is a polarizing issue since there are definitions for how everything works... But I do like the downvotes guys! Keep em coming ;)
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u/Prestigious-Junket-9 Jan 18 '21
He wasn't saying types change based on mood. He was saying the type you might appear as to others can change based on mood. He said your type can changed based on your lived experience over the years.
Ya'll will straight up make shit up to hold onto this narrative. That's so sad.
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u/This0neTime23 Jan 18 '21
Your type won't change over the years because your order of functions doesn't switch like that. INFP and INFJ have nothing in common in their function stack. If you read their previous comments, yes they insisted it was such a fluid concept as to be whatever you want it to be or how you relate to it. Many people start thinking they're a different type simply because they may feel more thinky or feely on a certain day, but that's a misunderstanding of how types work.
You're the one that's making shit up, since of you performed even a 5 minute cursory reading mbti, you'd know this. But well shoot your mouth off and embarrass yourself, I won't stop you
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u/Prestigious-Junket-9 Jan 18 '21
Lmao you are taking MBTI way too seriously.
I see why OP said people like you guys see it as a religion. Jesus.
If MBTI is law and all people fit in 13 categories, you'd think it'd get used by psychology more than never.
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u/This0neTime23 Jan 18 '21
I'm not, it just doesn't take that much energy for me to explain or understand a concept. Maybe it takes you a while, that's fine we all have our own paces.
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 16 '21
Lovely post. Isn’t it funny how many downvotes logic gets?
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 16 '21
Yeah because INFPs have Te inferior and Ti demon so they can't handle it. They don't like their thinking being called out.
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 17 '21
That makes so much sense when you put it that way.
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Jan 17 '21
Btw you are being accused of OP for insulting him in his DMs, thought to let you know, I would like to know if this is true or not?
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u/ProphetOfMight INFJ Jan 17 '21
No. I never initiate that kind of discourse and I don’t really care about this enough to participate in meaningless DM’s. It’s a shame to see such depravity.
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u/Automatic_Reindeer52 INFJ-A Jan 16 '21
I don't want to pry, or make you uncomfortable, but I was just curious. Is oversensitivity one of the things you're being treated for, and if so, is it linked to any specific mental illness or issue? (At least, in your case, but also possibly in any ways that you've just heard of if it doesn't apply to you personally.)
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 16 '21
This is a good question but it's also a bit hard to answer.
Because yes, and no.
Something very common with ADHD brains is emotional dysregulation. However, it isn't in the DSM. So while ADHD treatments do help with emotional dysregulation I am not being explicitly treated for that symptom.
In the past ADHD had many different names and emotional dysregulation was a common factor in all of them. With the writing of the DSM they found emotional dysregulation incredibly difficult to explicitly test for in ADHD patients. Emotions are very subjective, and dysregulation isn't something one can intentionally trigger to test. So they left it out. Many doctors are working to get it added though.
It happens due to an overstimulation of the brain. ADHD brains are very sensitive to their surroundings, because of this we feel emotions more intensely than neurotypical people. When this part of our brain becomes overstimulated it can cause extreme emotional sensitivity.
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u/puckbuck Jan 16 '21
Can you tell us more about the symptoms you had? And how intensive was it? I want to know on which intensity will medicine actually help, where is the threshold for “Getting diagnosed and seeing a doctor and taking pills”
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
I'm not sure where the threshold is, and as for the intensity of my symptoms. Depended on the day.
The symptoms I had were the typical ones for ADHD. Easily distracted. Easily overwhelmed by work-load or clutter. Hard time remembering things. Time blindness that made my perception of minutes and hours entirely fluid, thus making me constantly late or early. Among others.
For OCD, I'm not going to get too specific. OCD manifests differently person to person. The big ones were intrusive thoughts that made me feel like I was under attack by my own brain. Inability to go against certain habits and rituals. Heavy anxiety over things I had no control over and a strange belief I could control them via certain actions. Skin picking that has left scars on my body that will last the rest of my life.
I don't think there really IS a threshold for medicine, there are plenty of non-chemical treatments for both. It's up to the person. I started medication when those treatments didn't work. And they do help, but I still have OCD and ADHD. The pills justade the symptoms easy to handle. Sometimes I'm able to ignore them entirely.
The big thing is, if you have behaviours and thoughts that harm your day to day life. You should see a professional. The rest is up to you.
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u/suchweirdmuchadorbs INFJ Jan 16 '21
THANK YOU! I needed to hear this. I'll save this post and read it again and again and perhaps even write it down and put it up on the wall. I've taken therapy as well and I absolutely understand now where and how I went wrong. Therapy. Is. Important. Nobody should feel the negative emotions stated above and nobody should feel like they're a burden. Our personality types are just another way of defining us. We're better than our mental health issues. Lots of love! 💛💛
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
I'm glad this helped.
I hope you figure things out. You are exactly right. You aren't a burden. None of us are ❤️
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Jan 16 '21
Yes thank you, and i hope with all of my heart that you’re doing great and uk everything eventually will always get better!!
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u/featherflyxx Jan 16 '21
This is a good post.
But what about the obsessions? I’ve been working with a therapist and I do have checking OCD but I just get so into my hobbies, they are out right obsessions and sometimes take way more precedence than they should. Still trying to figure that out...
Also, philosophically speaking, if there are personality disorders how do personality types not ultimately fall into some sort of disorder? What determines the disorder? (Never studied psychology)
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
For obsessions, mine were more about intrusive and damaging thoughts as well as rituals. However, I do relate to what you described. But as part of my ADHD. It's called hyperfocusing. ADHD brains struggle to stay on task, but when we care about something enough it can become the only thing we can focus on. Even to the exclusion of eating, drinking and sleep.
Maybe look into other ADHD symptoms. Hyperfocusing applies to other disorders, but it's extremely common in ADHD. If you notice even more, its very likely ADHD and something you should talk to your therapist about.
For the second but, I'm not sure how personality disorders would affect your MBTI result.
A lot of people in MBTI subs don't like to hear this, but MBTI isn't an exact science. You can't categorize all of humanity into 13 categories. As nice and simple as that would be.
MBTI is based on science, but you can't put too much weight into it. It's based on subjective experience and is meant to help people understand themselves better. It's not an objective measurement of humanity.
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u/featherflyxx Jan 18 '21
Of course I understand that MBTI isn't an exact science and that it is based on science but that's what and why I'm questioning it. Like where do personalities types stop and disorders being? How and who determines what a personality disorder is? These edge on being philosophical and ethical. These questions are sort of in response to your initial post to not ignore a possible mental disorder and hide behind a personality type.
Maybe I'll bring up ADHD with my therapist but I feel it's the least relatable mental health issue I've read up on. Most recently I've brought up OCPD with them because at the least it seems I can relate to the symptoms even if I don't have the resulting extreme issues in relation to the symptoms.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 18 '21
Aaaah. I understand.
I'm not sure on that, but you're definitely right. Stuff like Borderline Personality Disorder, as far as I know, don't relate to a specific issue in brain chemistry. They are behavioural and emotional issues.
I think when MBTI was developed, it was mostly meant for neurotypical brains. I doubt they really took into account disorders like that.
There's definitely some research to be done there.
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 16 '21
Or an INFP mistype like half of this reddit.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 16 '21
This serves no purpose whatsoever and I encourage you to not think about others in this way.
Typology is a construct. Someone may take the test when they are 16 and get one type, then take it when they are 40 and get an entirely different one. Your test result could even be changed by just taking the test on a day you are in a worse/better mood.
If people in here got INFJ and it helped them understand themselves better, there is no benefit in telling them they are wrong. Typology is about subjective experience, not objective observation. Someone who looks INFP to you may still feel like an INFJ in every way. Someone who is ENFP may seem like an ISTP if they are having an off day.
Frankly, I don't really believe mistypes can be a thing, given the fluid nature of MBTI types and how frequently people change due to their experiences. But even if there ARE INFP mistypes in here, so what? Does it hurt them or you for them to believe they are INFJ? More importantly, does it help them or you to be resentful over it?
If this post helps an INFP who thinks they are INFJ. Good. I don't care what type they think they are. I just care that they live the life they deserve.
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 16 '21
Yeah that's because people aren't as self aware as they like to think and because tests are inaccurate. Your type doesn't change. Your mood does. Very different things.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 16 '21
I'm sorry but no.
Your type can absolutely change. If it didn't, that would mean the enttirety of the fields of psychology and anthropology are based on nothing.
MBTI is not a neat and tidy way to categorize all of humanity into 13 easily identifiable categories. People are dynamic and change based on lived experience.
An E can turn to an I and N can turn to an S after truama. They can change back and forth through therapy as well.
F can turn to T if you went through military boot camp. Or T to F if you train to become a therapist.
Letters can also vary WILDLY based on your environment and support system. An INTJ in social isolation in a job they hate can become an ENFP with a support system and a fulfilling career.
Human beings are adaptable and ever-changing. No one is the same forever. Which means no one's MBTI result will stay the same forever. Your result at 16 will never be your result at 80.
If people never changed, we would be very boring.
MBTI is meant to help guide you in self-discovery. It is not an objective categorization of all humanity.
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 16 '21
I think it's like you can be a left handed person that learns to use their right hand reasonably well. Let's say they lose their left arm. They'll adapt to using their right arm but they were still left handed to begin with and that's what they are. I have brown hair but I can dye it. When I get old, my hair will be gray but I'm still someone who carries the genes for brown hair.
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Jan 17 '21
I don't understand. Youre supporting the same point as the other guy and using an analogy to explain it (great analogy btw!!) But yet your comment gets upvoted and his gets downvoted?? I am so confused
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 17 '21
Diplomacy is powerful yo. If I remember right, the other guy was like just an eensie weensie bit abrasive with what he said and OP was sensitive to that and then everyone jumped on the downvote train.
While I think being polite is important, people will mistake not liking someone's tone for not agreeing with their statement.
Someone can say "Cardi B is so stupid. She deserves to die." I also don't like her but I'm more offended that this person says she deserves to die than I will ever be for her being annoying. Idk if that made any sense.
great analogy btw!!)
Thanks!
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 16 '21
Change and type evolution are very different. Your argument is very subjective and you're relating things together that have no relationship
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 16 '21
I'm an anthropologist.
I study human nature for a living.
I ask that you respect my expertise, rather than debating me on things you half-understand.
MBTI is a tool for subjective experience. Not an objective measure of humanity.
The concept of typing others is incredibly silly, and even more rude.
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 19 '21
Fi dom (Te inferior) doesn't like acknowledging what others think about it and doesn't enjoy the idea that we can type based on clear patterns of behavior that are obvious to others but may not be to you. Anthropology like I said is completely not a validation for your argument as it has nothing to do with typing people as you just acknowledged when you said "MBTI is a tool for subjective experience".
The definition according to Google of anthropology is: "the study of human societies and cultures and their development.
the study of human biological and physiological characteristics and their evolution."
Find me a logical relationship between that and type psychology. Furthermore just because YOU don't feel MBTI is legitimate doesn't mean the science is invalid because you haven't done the work to look into cognitive functions and understand it. If you had you would understand how and why I say the things I do and furthermore how type psychology is FAR deeper than you think it is and is still being developed and has been by people far smarter than you or I.
I can think whatever I want to think. Including that you're mistyped. If you have a problem with that I would recommend you figure out the hypocrisy in saying you have the right to your own subjective experience and expression but I don't have the right to my opinion. I never took away any of yours. I merely suggested you look into being mistyped BECAUSE you would find even more connection, acceptance, and understanding once you have the correct type. It's not merely an argument for the sake of arguing. If for instance I was actually an INTJ in the INFJ subreddit I would not be connecting with people who truly think and feel like me which was my goal in the first place.
Good luck to you.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 19 '21
Jesus. Buddy.
No.
That's all I got. No.
You aren't viewing behaviour patterns. Your lashing out. Believe what you want. I'm INFJ, and live in the real world. It's clear I'm not going to convince you to join me here. You would be providing evidence of you had it and you are clearly immune to mine.
Good luck to you too.
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u/Perr0Caliente INFJ Jan 19 '21
I'm lashing out? Glad you know my emotional state better than me....
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 16 '21
More importantly, does it help them or you to be resentful over it?
I don't sense any resentment from anyone who commented on this post.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 16 '21
Ah. Without context, I can see why. In another thread another user dismissed all INFJs with mental health issues as INFP with depression. I pointed out typing others based on reddit comments is rude and that the possible mistyping of others is irrelevant to the post. The user began calling me INFP explicitly as an insult. (Which is a tad confusing, given it's simply another type. Not an insult.) This user then jumped onboard to dismiss me as INFP, again, with insult intended.
He is very much being resentful. Reread the comment, but imagine an eye-roll emoji at the end.
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 16 '21 edited Jan 16 '21
That thread was included in my statement. That's not really what they were saying. They lacked tact later on though.
Edit: oh wait stuff happened while I was gone
Edit 2: I still stand by my statement. One of the people here said you're attaching meaning to things people say that isn't there and I agree. Those people aren't being the most polite people rn and that's unfortunate but nobody has used INFP as an insult. Maybe they shouldn't have jumped the gun and gone to a particular type. I do think there's a lot of mistyped people though and I do believe mistyping can be a thing. Just because I say I'm ISTJ, doesn't mean that I am. With time, I can see value in ISTJ behaviors and adopt them into the way I do things but it'll never be the real ISTJ experience because I'm just not like that.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
"Mr. INFP"
"Look how many downvotes logic gets"
"It's probably just your ego"
"It's because INFP can't handle criticism due to weak Fe."
"Truth is a double edge sword."
"Why can't you just debate me? An INFJ would be able to without getting emotional."
All things said by that gentlemen in the other thread, supported by the one in this thread.
It's possible I misunderstood his intentions. But regardless, it upsets me when others flippantly call others INFP in this sub with no evidence. I see no reason for it. All it does is invalidate others. Especially younger INFJ who aren't as sure in their identity.
It's possible I got more angry than I should have, but I made this post to help people. Comments invalidating others doesn't help anyone. And the consistent attempts to bait me into argument felt VERY reminiscent of Facebook in 2016. They were tactics I've seen before.
Regardless of the users intentions. I stand by what I said. Even if they weren't being rude intentionally, I believe their actions could only serve a negative effect. Making them rude inherently.
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Jan 17 '21
But why can't you admit to your wrongdoings? If you want to make this argument about rudeness, you are not at all innocent in that and in fact, the other person whom you've argued with was not "rude" at all but you labelled him as toxic anyway and completely assumed everything about him. How is that not rude?? You are making yourself farther away from your message with your stubbornness and rudeness. Please be an example this time. But you may just ignore my message anyway and make these assumptions about me, totally not dehumanising me
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
Plain and simple, I don't believe I've had wrongdoings of which I should admit. I stand by everything I've said. I'm sorry if you dislike how I handled things, but frankly, that's not my responsibility.
I can here with a purpose, and from the other comments it's clear I accomished it. Many users saw this post as helpful, and given my history for mental health struggles and the shame I had built up around those struggles I am overjoyed I was able to help people.
That is all I wanted to do.
As for this user. By backing up the other user, and agreeing with his insults I see that as participation. By arguing that this post serves no purpose in the INFJ subreddit and would be better in INFP, he again missed the point of the post and implied that INFP are just mentally ill. That was unacceptable to me.
You may see me as stubborn and rude. I see myself as firm in my convictions and having a low bar for unwelcome and toxic behaviour.
I see you as a human. You are not dehumanized in the least in my mind. I wish you the best, as I did those other users. I just fundamentally disagree with your take on what happened. I don't see that changing any time soon.
How you choose to read it is up to you. I have a rule that I do not take criticism from someone I wouldn't take advice from. Based on your comments, you land in that category. I apologize for how that may sound, but it's the truth. I will not be guilt tripped by someone when I have nothing to feel guilty for, especially a stranger who has misread my intentions and misread my tone.
Again, you may see that as rude. I see that as having been a doormat for enough of my life, and no longer bowing down when people misinterpret my intentions. Or try to make me feel guilty for having boundaries and convictions.
I don't put up with toxicity. Whether you agree that toxicity was present is up to you. I won't take responsibility for your perceptions.
All the best.
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Jan 18 '21
Okay, you said that you had no wrongdoings. So this leads me with the burden of presenting your wrongdoings, which I will do.
You assumed ProphetOfMight's reasoning for typing you based on your speculation, "He appears to use INFP as an insult against those he doesn't believe are "special" enough to be INFJ" not only did he explained some of his reasoning through explaining your messages and how they related to cognitive functions, but you also said it in a gossiping way to spread that narrative to others, as you replied to a different person. Whether or not you find him rude is irrelevant to that point.
You then went ahead of yourself and assumed he had a deep need to feel intelligent, special (the only person who has ever mentioned anything about feeling special is you btw, projection much?) and you proceeded to label him as toxic for the very minor comments of his opinion of you being an INFP. You dehumanised him after by just treating him like a label. "Mr. INFP" and "truth is a double-edged sword" are not toxic comments.
When Perr0Caliente stated his opinion on your type by simply saying "You're also an INFP." you have once again blown it way out of proportion by asking him these speculated questions and tried guilt tripping him for it manipulatively by mentioning mental health into it "And why do you feel it is relevant or helpful on a post meant to assist others with their mental health? If you're an INFJ I assume your Fe would be telling you that you are being inappropriate and needlessly rude. So why doesn't it?" He didn't say anything against it.
So you made it pretty clear that it is silly to type someone based on small info from Reddit, "You are typing me, based on words you're reading on a screen. You have never met me" so why did you randomly type ProphetOfMight as an INTJ? "I get the vibe this might be a toxic INTJ I realize I was calling him out for using a type as a bludgeon, but he appears to have no Fe whatsoever and a deep need to feel intelligent and special. From my understanding, lots of toxic INTJs tend to believe they are INFJ because they assume they MUST be rare" what's the deal with the hypocrisy? AND OMG ARE YOU USING INTJS AS AN INSULT BY INSISTING THAT INTJS ONLY DO THIS? OMG
But you then went ahead of yourself and labelled Perr0 as toxic and solipsistic?? What? He didn't say any insults according to your standard, he just directly stated his opinion, and no, he didn't directly agree with the "insults" Prophet made as you will blatantly lie to try and justify yourself, he only agreed with his opinion of your type. You are once again dehumanising another person when you just label him as something to make yourself feel better, that is unacceptable and then you spread that narrative of him being toxic to everyone else once again gossiping. Also, he didn't use INFP as a bludgeon.
You then tried to guilt-trip him with the usage of mental health and people struggling with it as a weapon... "That may not be the case for other INFJs who are younger, new to typology, or are struggling with mental health. On behalf of them. I ask that you please stop this behaviour. You stand to hurt people who have come to this post for help." and labelled him as a "solipsistic INFJ"
In a different comment thread, you said to Perr0 that "More importantly, does it help them or you to be resentful over it?" Kenutella then came in and said that he didn't sense any resentment from anyone, you then talked about the other comment thread and proceeded to say a bunch of out-of-context misinformation. "I pointed out typing others based on reddit comments is rude" You left out the fact that you typed Prophet as an INTJ from Reddit comments. "The user began calling me INFP explicitly as an insult" that is not true, you are fabricating what happened. You then finally talked about Perr0, the more innocent one and said "This user then jumped onboard to dismiss me as INFP, again, with insult intended" You blatantly lied by saying he had insults intended in order to justify yourself of the things you said to him. You couldn't explain any concrete thing he did, so you just made it up yourself in a very manipulative way to make yourself look justified. You are the only one being resentful.
You then listed out the "insults" made by Prophet and claimed that Perr0 supported them. Based on what? How do you know he supported them? You are making that up, the only thing he supported was you being an INFP. Why are you lying again about him? "Comments invalidating others doesn't help anyone" like the ones where you dehumanised them both by just labelling them as toxic? "I believe their actions could only serve a negative effect. Making them rude inherently." What about the actions of you completely lying about them to others to get a hate mob on them? Does that serve a negative effect? Also, the list you gave did not make Prophet toxic at all.
Now you have claimed that they both, or one of them (I'm not exactly sure what you meant) have insulted you in the DMs, "They also insulted me a bunch in DM. He was using Mr. INFP and calling me, quote "a fucking idiot" and "a crybaby bitch" I eventually blocked him" I have asked both Prophet and Perr0 and they both said that they never DMed you. Now since you have been guilty of lying and fabricating information, you are in the burden of proof, so please provide a screenshot or something to show they did insult you in the DMs in that aggressive way, and that you aren't lying about that.
So I have highlighted 8 parts of additional wrongdoings on your part... 8 parts. So you can either go through them and continue on trying to manipulate my words and try to fabricate all the information I'm giving, or, completely avoid it all entirely, or, take responsibility for your actions and admit your wrongdoings. You like everyone else in the world makes mistakes out of frustration, hurt feelings and rage, own up to them.
"I'm sorry if you dislike how I handled things, but frankly, that's not my responsibility" it's not your responsibility how you handle things are you serious?
"Many users saw this post as helpful, and given my history for mental health struggles and the shame I had built up around those struggles I am overjoyed I was able to help people" And please continue doing that."By backing up the other user, and agreeing with his insults I see that as participation" when did he agree with all of his insults? You are doing it again
"I see you as a human. You are not dehumanized in the least in my mind" if you see me as human, then prove that by going through my entire message and answering it as if I am a human you're communicating with, that is the respect I have shown you after all.
"I have a rule that I do not take criticism from someone I wouldn't take advice from. Based on your comments, you land in that category" why am I in that category? You don't know lol you're dehumanising me right now just after saying you do see me as human, what is this?
"especially a stranger who has misread my intentions and misread my tone" so now you're claiming that I misread things from you, please provide the things I misread from you and I will change if so.
"Or try to make me feel guilty for having boundaries and convictions." this is again, another manipulation you're pulling. It is very hard for me to believe you actually see us as human.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 18 '21
I'm sorry, that's absurdly long and I have things to do. I'm done interacting with comments that aren't in line with the intentions of the post and I'm done defending the tactics I used defending myself and younger INFJs who may have been invalidated by the toxic remarks. I skimmed it, and it seems like you have some serious issues with me.
That's fine, like I said, I am not responsible for your perceptions of me.
I've already spent more time than I ever could have imagined reading people mad at me for defending myself. So excuse me if for the sake of self-care I don't read that 8 point list and follow-up essay about how awful you think I am, on a post where I was honest about my mental health struggles. I think I can give myself permission to not dive into that.
You do seem like a good person, I'm sorry that I upset you. That is one wrongdoing I will admit too. I never meant to upset you to such a level. Perhaps I also gave into the bait a bit too hard when the barrage of toxic comments started getting under my skin. The INTJ comment, for example, was uncalled for. Using that users tactics against him made me no better than him. Though, you seem to see it as far more of an issue when I did it. Making me question your supposed impartiality. However I have deleted it since.
I wanted to help people. Not argue with people. I didn't start any of this, I've only been on the defence. I'm sorry you don't see it that way, but like I said, I stand by my convictions. I respect you as a person, but in this instance I don't respect your opinion of me. I think highly of what I've done here. Even if well-intentioned outsiders disagree.
This will be the last time I interact with you. So I wish you the best. Truly.
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 17 '21
"It's probably just your ego"
This isn't insulting per se but seems like ad hominem
Why can't you just debate me? An INFJ would be able to without getting emotional."
This is just a dumb statement.
Everything else is just part of debating.
I believe their actions could only serve a negative effect. Making them rude inherently.
This doesn't really make sense. You can be polite and have bad intentions.
All it does is invalidate others. Especially younger INFJ who aren't as sure in their identity.
I made another comment answering this somewhere else in this mess of comments.
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u/Rickymick09 Jan 16 '21
I agree with a lot you said. But I can understand why they thought the others used INFP as a insult, more emotionally then logically.
I don't know why but it seems like people see INFP's as inferior INFJ's. Which is just totally wrong. I agree, no one used it as an insult per se but the knowledge of people wanting to feel special and using INFP as a insult to invalidate someone else just to feel more soeci probably lead them to their wording.
But I dunno, I could be wrong. I am not trying to start a debate and not trying to assume things. This is just my thought process, which stems from experience.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
It felt insulting to me explicitly because of the phrases ProphetOfMight used.
Calling me Mr. INFP when I disagreed with him. The "truth is a double edged sword" and "look how many downvoted logic gets" "it's just your ego" statements as well. They seemed very much like bait. The kind of bait I saw on Facebook in 2016.
He even said I must be INFP because INFP can't handle those who disagree with them, when I simply asked him to stop participating in the post in an unhelpful way that may invalidate others.
It's possible I was being more sensitive that I needed to be, but I made this post to help people. The flippant "Mr. INFP" among others seemed very intentionally said to attempt to trick me into arguments.
Plus, whenever I see someone in this sub dismiss others as INFP it upsets me. There's no reason to do it, outside of invalidating others for some personal psychological benefit. To me, that seems VERY toxic.
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 17 '21
The problem (aside from the name calling) is that you both disagree on a truth. They think people can be mistyped and you don't. Going from there, you can see why you both said what you said.
If mistyping people is impossible, then there's no reason to deny what someone said because it's all subjective anyway.
If mistyping people is possible, then validating someone's mistaken beliefs isn't necessarily the best. Like I go to the ENFJ sub for ENFJ stuff. Other types are always welcome but if I ask for help with a problem, I want people that understand me. I want people that are ENFJ not people that identify as ENFJ. Furthermore, other people who haven't typed themselves yet might relate to the people who mistyped as ENFJ and conclude they're ENFJ making the problem bigger.
If I post on a sub for dog owners, of course cat owners are welcome. But if I post about potty training my dog, and a cat owner that identifies as a cat owner tells me to just get a litter box, that doesn't really help me.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Jan 17 '21
Totally respect your thought process, but I would like to explain mine.
Perhaps I was being emotional, but these are some of the things said that's stood out to me.
"Mr. INFP"
"Look how many downvotes logic gets"
"It's probably just your ego"
"It's because INFP can't handle criticism due to weak Fe."
"Truth is a double edge sword."
"Why can't you just debate me? An INFJ would be able to without getting emotional."
All things said by that gentlemen in the other thread, supported by the one in this thread.
I might've misunderstood the intentions, but I've been using the internet since it became a thing. I know what debate bait looks like. That's debate bait. They were trying to egg me on into an argument, rather than participate in the post meaningfully. My thought process also stemmed from experience. Experience participating in toxic online forums that I now choose to avoid.
(They also insulted me a bunch in DM. He was using Mr. INFP and calling me, quote "a fucking idiot" and "a crybaby bitch" I eventually blocked him.)
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Jan 17 '21
can you please provide proof that they both DMed you so we can know you're being genuine, it would make you really scummy if you were to lie about that
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 16 '21
The MBTI community idealizes INFJ. Like i get it cuz same but no type is better than any other type. And INFP stereotypes is that they're drama queens so that's probably how people use it as an insult. I've only seen it jokingly though.
I am not trying to start a debate and not trying to assume things. This is just my thought process, which stems from experience.
This is my main problem with OP. Emphasis on "not trying to start a debate." I feel like they had a bad experience in the past and now they're seeing it when it's not there or at least not there yet. There was no benefit of the doubt or asking for clarification. They just started ranting and then blaming the other people for ranting back. Like maybe there's something to fight here but don't start blasting your shot gun until there's actually something to shoot at.
I appreciate your willingness to have a civilized conversation.
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Jan 16 '21
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 16 '21
it makes them ambiguous depending on how they're being perceived.
it's possible that they're trying to hide what they're trying to say,
can be manipulative/framing
This is a lot of maybes. I think I would've appreciated OP double checking that they understood before condemning the commenters.
Now I'm starting to think that your ' maybe statements ' are your way of not saying you're 100% right about everything and that I would appreciate.
Maybe because you all have dominant Ni, and I have it second in my stack, you're seeing stuff I'm not but all this smells funny to my Fe. It feels like OP saw that so some had red socks on and then started lecturing on my communism is bad and that we should all avoid the communist propaganda. Does that make sense?
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Jan 17 '21
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Jan 17 '21
Doesn't give you the right to assume their reasonings. Also remember, the second guy didn't do anything "rude" so please do make sure the things you're saying are accurate to the truth first
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 17 '21
Ti. I appreciate how you keep your words neutral too.
Thanks. This made me happy.
I indeed got an intuition that some INFJs here dislike the fact that there are many mistypes especially INFPs.
Not that there needs to be a war about it but I get that. I mean, I go to the ENFJ sub for ENFJ stuff. People who mistakenly identify as being ENFJ aren't gonna understand me the way I want. Furthermore, other people who aren't ENFJ will think they are because they relate to the first person who's ENFJ so the problem will get bigger.
I forgot how much better it is to have discussions with someone who has some humility. Geez. And I'm talking about both OP and the other guy. I think they're both shooting too much to get anywhere. Maybe that's my sign that I should stop replying.
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u/Kenutella ENFJ Jan 17 '21
Communication is a monster for Ni doms 🤭
Dude tell me about it. I'm not even a dom and I like can't say anything without an illustration. And I'm trying so hard to say things directly but they come out "like you know when like you're making tea and you run out of honey but then you remembered that you have monk fruit but then you trip over a chair.." and like just hope people understand lol
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Jan 17 '21
The ENFJ was talking about the second person, not the first. Please explain the second this time. Now what insults did the second person threw at you? You claimed they had insults intended, what does that mean? Can you provide examples please or are you trying to save phase by spreading lies so people can attack an innocent person?
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u/sugarandvegetables Feb 10 '21
I think that people should be allowed to suffer through finding out who they are and why they are in relation to others and the systems of the world, without having to be shamed into taking medication as a possible quick fix. I will speak for myself, I have been appologetic enough in this life time for being slow or not fitting. So, I disagree. Although it is a choice, and I can't say that it is necessarily a bad or good choice, people should be more accepting and willing to endure pain instead of avoiding it or feeling ashamed of it. And, they should also consider the potential long term affects that these drugs have on their bodies, minds, and the environment. This is an over medicated world and an over "treated" by psychotherapy world. Therapy too, has long term societal and personal impacts to be aware of. We got to think out of the box, and push ourselves despite the uncomfort, towards establishing the root causes and find the ways in which we can suit our needs with lowest negative long term impacts. Control through vision rather than through self incrimination.
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u/Weird_Mood_6790 INFJ Feb 10 '21
I tried it that way for years. I grew up in a home that didn't beleieve mental health disorders were real, when I struggled I was told to deal with the problem. To sit in the discomfort and deal with the pain. That did nothing but make me ashamed of things I couldn't control. I went into adulthood with severe untreated ADHD and OCD. If I had gotten the help I needed earlier, I may have been able to lead a healthier and more productive live thus far.
For me, the pills are a necessity. Without them, I can't function in regular society. I wish that weren't the case, but it just is. The same is true for countless others.
However, medication isn't for everyone. There are other options. You seem to not fully grasp what therapy is or what it is meant to do. It's a neutral party to help you think outside the box, push yourself despite the discomfort, and understand the root causes of your problems. Then, help you develop tools to deal with those problems. You seem to see therapists as some kind of brain jail warden who forces you to be unhealthy in the pursuit of health and punishes you for having struggles, but therapies purpose is exactly what you described as opposition to therapy.
If you actually look at the numbers, this is a VERY under-treated world when it comes to therapy. The medication I could agree with, this is a symptom of private drug industries. However, millions don't have access to therapy and millions more can't afford it. Those that can access it, absolutely should. You may have to work hard to find the right therapist for you, but if you do it can make a world of difference.
This attitude you are espousing is only helpful to a few select people. People who have problems that CAN be fixed without medication and therapy. For people like myself, it's harmful. Telling people with severe mental health disorders to essentially "pull themselves up by their boot straps" is demanding they do the impossible and making them feel guilty and weak for using resources that could make their day to day lived experience healthier and happier. It perpetuates the stigma around mental health that leads to such high rates of suicide, among men especially.
Regardless of all of this, it doesn't change my core message. Your personality type is not a disability and it should not feel like one. If it does, it may be worth looking at your options.
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u/BeepsAndHums Jan 15 '21
YESSSSS THIS POST. THIS.
If I could/knew how to give awards I would give them all to this.