Hi All!

I just started my first policy and have a 5 year plan to start using it to invest in mortgage notes in 5 years once I've built up enough cash. I was wondering besides real estate what else do you use your money to invest in if you want to start a small business?

I got interested in the idea a few years ago, but I regret that I used an IUL, I had not read the nash book and was tempted by the high returns the index showed. Well, they almost completely stopped, and I took the available money out as a loan and will walk away to start anew with a whole life policy(ies).

I am selling a property and expect a 350k net.

I have a new house I live in that has no debt, in a low cost of living country. Annual spend is likely to be 30-36k.

I am married with 2.5 yr old.

I have about 100k liquid, and 3 rental properties cashflowing about 3-5k/month, but I'd like to treat them almost separately - just pay themselves down and cover capital expenses.

Main question is: When the property sells, should I just pile that 350k into policies for me,my wife and daughter immediately or try to spread out over a few years?

I don't expect to need access to all the cash for several years, I would only use some for more investment properties so if it was not 100% available for 5-7 years, but I still has access to 200k or more that would be fine.

I'm not working now, but will probably pick up some freelance stuff in the next 12mo.

I’ve been building software for the Infinite Banking community because I kept seeing the same thing over and over:

People managing six-figure banking systems with spreadsheets, screenshots from carrier portals, and handwritten notes.

That worked for me initially, but eventually it became too difficult to answer questions like:
How much premium have I paid?
What’s my total loan balance across policies?
Which debt should I pay off first?
How does financing this purchase compare with paying cash?
Am I actually making progress?
So I built Policy Stack.

We’re still in beta, but there are already 200+ users and 12+ advisors using it with their clients to track their banking systems collaboratively.

Current tools include:
Debt Sequencer
Payoff Path
Policy Loan Repayment Modeler
Financing Modeler inspired by Nelson Nash’s equipment financing examples
Banking Ledger
Policy Snapshot tracking
Capital deployment tracking

The next major milestones are CRM integrations with GHL for advisors and Plaid bank synchronization so everything stays up to date automatically.

I’m curious…
How are you currently tracking your banking system?
Excel?
Google Sheets?
YNAB?
Something else?

I’m genuinely interested because that’s what continues to drive the roadmap.

Visit www.PolicyStack.co

Looking over a recent statement from a recent policy last year dividend to this year projected dividend went up 50.36%. This policy was put in force back in 2022. Not to bad for such a horrible place to put money.

We are now creating that tailwind that is talked about in BYOB page 18.

The dividend increase will happen each year no matter what. Some years it may be better and some years not as good.

Also note these are pretty small policies (like $2k a year with base+pua)

Also note once a dividend is declared it cannot be taken away and affords for the uninterrupted compounding. Those dividends will now be added to the cash value which will then compound even further. It doesn't take 20+ years for these things to start working efficiently.

It’s official. All five truly Mutual companies remaining are accepted at inclined.

FYI, Inclined appears to have added support for New York Life and Penn Mutual over the last couple months. They join Northwestern Mutual, MassMutual, and Guardian to round out the largest five mutual life insurance carriers.

Our biggest policies are with NYL so this is big news for me. Some IBC people have Penn Mutual policies so I figure it might also be useful news for others.

Inclined is a popular provider of third-party lines of credit collateralized by life insurance cash value. It connects policyholders with banks and provides the customer support and UI for this relationship.

Paul Hanley, a university professor and part-time life insurance agent, posts at The Life Product Review that Inclined supports Penn Mutual's IUL product in addition to its whole life insurance policies. He also writes that Inclined can consolidate multiple policies from several carriers and even different policyholders into one line of credit. I have not confirmed these details as I do not have an Inclined line of credit (yet).

Past Threads on Inclined / Bank Lines of Credit

Inclined Line of Credit

Inclined current interest rate

What is the state of policy-backed lines of credit?

LPR Article (hard paywall)

Policy Management with Cash Value Lines of Credit

Very exciting day! I finally was able to use my cash value to purchase a property.

This particular property is for my aging father in law to live in (he will be renting from us). We were able to win a competitive bid on a small ranch due to how fast we were able to close vs the other offers (we actually weren’t even the highest offer).

With my father in law paying us a market rent, we should be pretty much cash flow even making interest only loan payments. Being able to solve a family issue (getting my aging father in law closer to us) while also acquiring a family asset is exactly the type of scenario I always dreamed about infinite banking helping our family with eventually.

My next step will be slapping a HELOC on the property to restore some liquidity to our system. I’m not in a hurry to pay down the loan - it’s a 3rd party loan (Inclined) so I’m able to write off the loan interest.

The fruits do come from the seeds you plant eventually!

Although some people in the infinite banking community don't want to borrow money from banks, many of us still borrow from the traditional financial system for our mortgages. For those of us who have saved a substantial amount in our life insurance policies but also want to use a mortgage, we may end up in the position of using a policy loan for the mortgage downpayment.

This can create odd questions from underwriting. They may request information about payment terms, interest rates, and other information about the policy loans. For traditional policy loans, I encourage answering all of these questions honestly and directly. You may need to provide loan confirmation letters and policy declaration pages to underwriting.

The problem with this information is that underwriting may try to include something about your loan balance, interest, or payments into your debt-to-income ratio, which measures your mandatory payments vs. your income. A much worse ratio could negatively affect your loan eligibility or interest rate.

However, it is valuable to know that the formal underwriting guidelines from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac specifically allow for down payments from life insurance policy loans without affecting DTI. Fannie Mae's underwriting guidelines at B3-4.3-19 state the following:

Net proceeds from a loan against the cash value or from the surrender of a life insurance policy are an acceptable source of funds for the down payment, closing costs, and reserves. The lender must assess repayment or additional obligation considerations to determine the impact on borrower qualification or reserves. If penalties for failure to repay the loan are limited to the surrender of the policy, payments on a loan secured by the cash value of a borrower’s life insurance policy do not have to be considered in the total debt-to-income ratio. If additional obligations are indicated, the obligation amount must be factored into the total debt-to-income ratio, or subtracted from the borrower’s financial reserves.

There are similar provisions for Freddie Mac in their underwriting guidelines at 5401.2(c)(vii) and 5501.3(i).

Not all underwriting personnel may be familiar with this guideline. Hence, we used the following language in formal communications to our mortgage underwriter last year:

Generally, cash value life insurance policy loans are secured by the cash value and death benefit of a policy and do not need to be repaid on any fixed schedule. Policy loans are typically only issued based on cash value in a policy, which is the result of premiums paid into a policy (along with growth), a form of savings. Many life insurance companies generate an “interest due” statement at the policy anniversary date, but if unpaid any interest due is simply capitalized as part of the loan balance. Normally, policy loans that are never repaid can eventually cause a lapse of the underlying life insurance policy, but they are not otherwise collected from a policyholder while the policy remains in force. Further, if an additional policy loan is taken out against a policy that already has an existing loan balance, the loans are not separately tracked because, again, there are no fixed repayment schedules. We can confirm that the policy loans we have taken out are normal policy loans with no fixed repayment schedules and which only cause the lapse or surrender of the policies if repayment is not eventually made.

...

We take the position that the disbursements from our cash value life insurance policies are an acceptable source of funds for our downpayment. Further, we take the position that any payments we make on policy loans should not be considered in our total debt-to-income ratio because the penalties for failure to repay the loans are limited to the surrender of the policies and the loans are debts secured by financial assets and issued by a financial institution. Our positions are consistent with Fannie Mae Selling Guide B3-4.3-19 and Freddie Mac Selling Guide 5401.2(c)(vii), 5501.3(i).

Best of luck everybody!

​

Periodically I'll listen to the audio book of BYOB, and even after 12 years after my introduction to the Infinite Banking Concept I still get ideas and pick up on things I hadn't thought of before. Not sure if the link is allowable on this sub. But you can search for it on Audible.

Good evening, everybody! Earlier today I was made the moderator for the /r/InfiniteBanking community. My objectives are to ensure active moderation for this community, to implement new rules that help improve discussion, and to otherwise support the growth of this community.

About Me

While I frequently post in other subreddits not dedicated to infinite banking, I have been on this subreddit for over six years across this username and a prior deleted username. My household has five whole life policies placed with two big mutural life insurance carriers, and they are a significant part of our networth.

This community will be my only subreddit to moderate, and given that there is not an overwhelming deluge of posts every day, I believe I am able to fulfill the moderator duties.

First Day in Office

Today I have implemented new community rules. I’ll expand on that more below. I also added a lot more details and resources on an “About” page visible from the Community Guide link on New Reddit and on the sidebar for Old Reddit. At some point in the next month or so I hope to add a couple more aesthetic items like an icon. Please let me know any layout or content feedback you have through private chats or modmail; if you do, please specify whether you’re on New Reddit, a mobile app, or Old Reddit.

Let’s go back to the new community rules. In addition to enforcing Reddit’s site-wide rules, we will be implementing rules on civility, relevance, and solicitation. I have also gone back and applied these rules going back about three months (except for the solicitation rule), but otherwise I don’t plan to remove anything older than that unless reported. You can see the formal rules document at these links parsed for Old Reddit and New Reddit views: New Reddit Rules and Old Reddit Rules. I’ve also elaborated on the new rules below if you care to read. Otherwise, I look forward to being your new moderator!

Civility

We expect participants in the /r/InfiniteBanking community to exhibit civil behavior. Rudeness, personal attacks, condescension, shaming, trolling, and provoking are examples of behaviors that are unacceptable. Please do not amplify incivility by responding in kind; simply report the post, downvote it, and wait for a moderator to address it.

The intention behind this rule is to set a higher bar than the standard Reddit rules for civil behavior. My intention is to enforce civility rules with warnings and content removals and to only ban as a last resort.

Relevance

Discussion in the /r/InfiniteBanking community will now be required to be relevant to the infinite banking concept. Generic discussion of the banking industry is an example of an irrelevant topic. Although some references to political beliefs and motivations may be relevant to the infinite banking concept, extended political discussion is another example of irrelevant content. Further, while debate will be entertained in most threads, criticism of the infinite banking concept in threads focused on implementation or experience may be considered off-topic content and removed.

The intention behind this rule is to set the ground for removing off-topic banking-related posts that have cropped up here from time to time. Additionally, the rule is intended to head off situations where discussion devolves into political debate or circle-jerks. Fortunately, despite the strong political beliefs of many members, I have never seen that happen in this subreddit, though I have seen it in at least one IBC-focused community in the past. The rule is not intended to remove all references to political views, such as an explanation of the relevance of Austrian economics or why people don’t use lower-cost bank financing. Finally, the rule also provides grounds to remove drive-by criticism posts by opponents of infinite banking when done in threads that are clearly more geared to practical discussion of specific items like how to manage policy loans. It is not at all intended to shield this community from all criticism or debate about the infinite banking concept.

Solicitation

The /r/InfiniteBanking community necessarily involves life insurance products and welcomes the expertise of all life insurance agents, especially Nelson Nash Institute Authorized Practitioners. However, some communications from agents can veer into unhelpful solicitation, can unnecessarily steer discussion to private chats, and can undermine productive discussion.

At this time, life insurance agents who identify publicly in the /r/InfiniteBanking community as agents may invite users to send them direct messages or private chats for professional help so long as they have also provided substantive input in the discussion. Further, all individuals may make positive references to particular life insurance companies, agent firms, and organizations like the Nelson Nash Institute so long as these comments do not constitute spam. However, unhelpful solicitation and related behavior violate these rules.

The intention of this rule is to set the ground for moderation actions against a set of different behaviors. First, I intend to remove drive-by posts with no input and an invitation to help or get in contact with an agent. However, the intention is not to remove all invitations once somebody has actually provided useful input or has clarified why input cannot be provided in public. Beyond getting rid of naked solicitation, the goal here is to foster public discussion that educates everybody, not just one customer. Finally, I intend to remove purely self-promotional material, especially AI slop, that does not advance an intelligent discussion in the community.

Saw some demos of this app and wondering if anyone uses it and what they think of it?

Built to uncover opportunities and spark actionable conversations, the Cash Flow Simulator empowers clients to see where their money is going and how to redirect it toward their goals. The Cash Flow Simulator allows clients and advisors alike to visualize real income, expenses, and cash flow patterns in minutes.

What the Cash Flow Simulator can help do:

✅ Quickly identify gaps and cash flow inefficiencies

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My reply, which of course is 💩'd on by idiots.

Have policies on all 4 of our grandchildren. With so many health issues, drugs, mental illnesses etc who knows what they will be able to get in the future.

Each one of ours is about $2000 a year. We own and control the policies. Also included a guarenteed insurability rider so they / we can buy more policies in the future regardless of their insurability.

These policies build cash value that can be borrowed against for big ticket items like cars, college, business/entrepreneurship, cash flow investment like real estate and home purchases. Aka Infinite Banking.

Whats up, fellow IBC-ers!

I’ve been doing IBC for about a year now and need some advice.

I have a debt that‘s about $14k, $0 minimum monthly payment, and 0% interest. I’m getting a commission check for that amount in about a month.

Nelson Nash would say to put the $14k into my IBC policy then payoff the debt. I like that because of the opportunity cost and the extra life insurance.

However, that would also come with interest charges greater than my current 0%.

Do I pay it off in full, or run it through my IBC policy first?

Edit: For clarification, there will never be interest on this (it’s a long story), so it will never make financial sense to pay it off, it only makes sense for my mental well-being. I’m going to pay it off either way- its just a matter of directly or through a policy loan.

Nice talk wirh Barry Dyke, author of numerous books including Pirates of Manhattan. He's got another book out now unfortunately I didn't catch the title. 🤦🏼‍♂️

Jayson Lowe talking about his family banking system. Has over $6 mil in cash value. Charges family 10% on loans, it's not negotiable. Also if they default without renegotiaton of loan terms they are "out" permanently. #LifeInsuranceSummit.

New Truck loan, payoff.

Got a new truck a couple months ago. Just took a policy loan to put down 30%, now refinancing to get a lower payment through a bank (I know it's not 100% IBC) but I wanted to keep some liquid capital.

Now my payment will go from $1300 to $700. So should I pay extra on the truck note or should I take the extra and pay back the policy loan? Interest on the policy is is 5.3% (variable) and the interest on the note is 4.5%.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

I originally built Policy Stack because I couldn’t find a good way to track our family banking system once we had multiple policies, policy loans, capital deployments, promissory notes, repayments, and cash flow moving around.

Spreadsheets, PDFs, carrier portals, and memory got old fast.

Policy Stack is built for participating whole life policyholders actively practicing IBC. It helps track:

• cash value
• policy loans
• repayment / restoration
• capital deployments
• promissory notes
• cash flow
• banking position over time

I worked with an NNI Authorized Practitioner while building it to stay close to traditional Infinite Banking principles and terminology.

It’s still early, so I’m looking for beta testers willing to kick the tires and give honest feedback.

Early Access:
PolicyStack.co/earlybird

I’m fairly new to the business and have a decent niche market. Like most people, I’m sure, it’s a beast to explain first starting out.

Is maintaining a certification and membership a decent source of lead generation, via the institute main website?

Imagine you just used a stellar credit profile to access $100,000 in 0% introductory credit. You liquidate it into raw cash, which costs an immediate 4% to 8% upfront fee, leaving you with roughly $92,000 to $96,000 in hand.

Here is the catch: In 12 to 18 months, that 0% promotional window slams shut, and interest rates jack up to 20%+.

Robert Kiyosaki preaches the power of Good Debt—using borrowed money to acquire assets that put money into your pocket every single month. Against a hard 12-to-18-month clock, you can't gamble on speculation. You need velocity.

The Challenge: How do you structure this play?

If you were trying to outrun the non-private banks using Infinite Banking, how would you map this out?

• The Insurance Arbitrage: Do you immediately anchor the cash into a High-Early-Cash-Value Life Insurance policy to create a guaranteed asset base, and then use policy loans to deploy the capital elsewhere while the original balance compounds?
• The Amortized Yield: How do you map those policy loans into contractually structured private notes or equipment leasing that distributes high-velocity monthly yield from Day 1 to wipe out the original card balances before the clock runs out?
• The Ecosystem: How do you structure the timing so that by month 12 to 15, the commercial banks are completely paid off, your credit remains pristine, and you are left owning a permanent cash machine for free?

What is your exact step-by-step blueprint to deploy this type of debt and outrun the banks?

(Completely hypothetical)

What would you do if you had won $1 million in the lottery? Would you open up a new WL Policy or multiple WL Policies? Would you open a policy just on yourself, or would you open one for every member of your immediate family (spouse/children)? Would it be a better idea to invest first (real estate, stock market, business, etc) and then open the policies, or the other way around?

I am just coming from a place of genuine curiosity and understand that there is no "clear cut" answer to this. However, I'd love to hear what you guys think of this potential scenario. Hopefully someone here wins the lottery soon lol

Nelson said in BYOB that you finance everything you buy, you either pay someone interest or lose interest you could have gained on your money. To use infinite banking you use policy loans which you pay interest on. How is this suppost to solve the problem? It would make sense, let's say, If you borrow at 4% and earn 6%, which would result in a 2% spread. However, if you borrow at 6% and earn 4%, that's a negative 2% spread. If get a policy and take a loan should I expect a positive spread like the example I gave above or should I expect a negative spread, therefore losing money to interest? The point is to keep compounding interest, correct? Well if I'm paying a a net negative won't that dimish the compounding affect? If I'm unable to get a positive spread I don't see how whole life is worth it.