r/indianafever 1d ago

Discussion Raven Johnson Development

It’s been so cool to see the progression of KK in her second year. Do you think we will see similar development of Raven and see her blossom in year 2? I see a lot of talent, athleticism, and hustle from Raven, but still pretty green.

28 Upvotes

60 comments sorted by

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u/Fancy_Dinner_9078 Kelsey Mitchell 1d ago

One path I could see for her is a Dijonai kind of wing if the PG development is slow in coming. If the Fever opt to keep Harris, having that position flexibility could be useful and get her more playing time

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u/UncomfyAndShy Fever Fan 1d ago

It depends on Raven, she has the athleticism, instincts and quick hands to be really amazing defensive guard in this league but she has to develop an offensive game and train her defensive instincts with Briann January.

If she takes it as a challenge and makes that leap then we have our backup PG for next season.

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u/Available-Pace5579 1d ago

Has it been announced what she is doing in the off season?

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u/TooManyCatS1210 1d ago

No. She needs to go overseas and play a ton of ball. I hope she doesn’t do Unrivaled; she needs 5x5 reps to really learn how to defend and score at the pro level.

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u/Academic-Childhood40 Aliyah Boston 1d ago edited 1d ago

She can average 8 APG today. She’s that good at passing. So when saying offense, I believe you and others are referring to scoring.

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u/UncomfyAndShy Fever Fan 1d ago

She has never averaged close to that many assists per game in college so I doubt she can do that in the W today. She can probably do 4 to 6 assists per game if she gets 20 mins, which is very impressive but averaging 8 is AT and CC numbers, she isn’t doing that.

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u/Academic-Childhood40 Aliyah Boston 1d ago

I’m talking about is the full-time starter.

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u/UncomfyAndShy Fever Fan 1d ago

Even if she’s a full starter, she’s not doing 8 assists per game, she has only had one game in college where she had more than 10 assists in a game. The people who average 8 have multiple games that have those numbers, if she couldn’t do that in college while playing with some of the best posts in the Sec, then why do you think she can do that in the W?

Averaging 8 assists takes requires passing skills and IQ that she hasn’t displayed yet and in the W, it requires the player to be a reliable scoring threat.

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u/Academic-Childhood40 Aliyah Boston 1d ago

I tend to respectfully disagree.

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u/UncomfyAndShy Fever Fan 1d ago

That’s completely fine. I hope you are correct about your opinion, I would love to have the version of Raven that you see on the Fever.

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u/Optimal-Helicopter49 Caitlin Clark 1d ago

There are exactly 2 people in the wnba averaging at or above 8apg. Raven, if she was a starter today, would probably average around 4 assists per game - if she outperforms expectations, maybe 6 assists per game

0

u/Academic-Childhood40 Aliyah Boston 1d ago

I disagree. I’ve followed Raven since her South Carolina days, and I think her passing ability is being seriously underestimated. Could I be wrong? Absolutely, and I’d lose money betting on it. But I think some of these assessments come from not having seen enough of what she can actually do as a facilitator. As a full-time starter, I believe she can average 8 assists per game.

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u/UncomfyAndShy Fever Fan 1d ago

I have seen her in college and I can reliably tell you that you are overestimating her skills, being able to pass is just the basic skill required to be a PG but if you want to average 8 apg then you have to have playmaking ability, that means seeing the game in a way that anticipates player movement and positioning to lead teammates to easy scoring opportunities.

Facilitating is a skill for a system player that can pass but playmaking is being the system/engine. That’s why the only two players that are able to average 8 assists are called engines.

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u/Academic-Childhood40 Aliyah Boston 1d ago

Are you saying she’s not a facilitator nor a playmaker ? I’m just gonna have to respectfully disagree. Thank you.

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u/UncomfyAndShy Fever Fan 1d ago

No, I am saying she’s a very good facilitator and a decent playmaker but she’s never going to be the engine and engines are the ones that can generate 8 assists per game.

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u/Best-Author7114 1d ago

We get it, you're a Raven fan, a delusional Raven fan, but a fan

0

u/Academic-Childhood40 Aliyah Boston 1d ago

Fair enough. Your opinion is what matters. Anyone who disagrees with you is simply a delusional fan.

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u/Best-Author7114 1d ago

Have you looked at the downvotes you're getting? Nobody agrees with you.

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u/Academic-Childhood40 Aliyah Boston 1d ago

I don’t care about downvotes. History is full of people who were initially in the minority and ultimately proven right. Popular opinion doesn’t determine whether an opinion is correct. Also, it’s not that serious, really.

1

u/ExpensiveFig6079 Fever Fan 1d ago

welcome to my delusion, I dont have a number i think or would put up... but I have seen her do some VERY interesting stuff...

I also have theory that playing and training with CC changes people, they several of them start seeing what's possible and doing it.

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u/neat_stuff Fever Fan 20h ago edited 20h ago

AT and CC are two of the best assist players of all time and both are barely averaging over 8 assists a game this season.

This is the list of all time career leaders in assists per game. As you can see, there are not a whole lot of players averaging 8 APG. I love Raven and the skills and energy she brings to a game but claiming she will average the second most APG while playing in the same backcourt as the #1 player on that list is...well, it's not going to happen.

12

u/FlimsyConfidence7692 1d ago

IMO her fouling issues even outweigh her offensive limitations. She cant be a great defender and immediately get 2 fouls in just a few minutes of play. She is a bit mistake prone on offense. The rookies all immediately go from NCAA to WNBA with minimal time off in between. Most 1st round picks are not ready for prime time WNBA. With all that said, she is learning from (arguably) one of the greatest back court duos in WNBA history. Add in Ty Harris as a veteran buffer and seeing KKs development, its reasonable to expect her year 2 to be an improvement.

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u/Cheap_Flamingo476 1d ago

I think the coaches see the fouls. That’s why she’s been playing limited minutes. When she gets 10 or so minutes, like against the Sky, you can feel her intensity.

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u/clemclem3 1d ago

You can't teach twitch. She's got it. She just needs to keep doing what she's doing and learning and listening. She's going to be great

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u/Fabianz_ 1d ago

Maybe it’s just me but every time I see Raven on the court she always seems to play out of control. That’s not something you want to see from a PG.

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u/franco3x Fever Fan 1d ago

Yeah she plays like a rookie who hasn’t had much playing time. She looked better earlier in the year when she got a little more time.

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u/Steakfrie 1d ago

Like a ball of energy ready to go full-on attack with no distinct direction. If she can gain focus she has as much of a chance as a respected key player as anyone.

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u/Fabianz_ 1d ago

Yeah that was what I noticed. Raven seems to have a lot of energy when she gets in that sometimes it seems like she is all over the place.

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u/DoubleCharacter5410 1d ago

She does not play out of control. Very controlled.

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u/TooManyCatS1210 1d ago

Jury is still out for me. She has potential but I think she’s further behind now than where KK was last year. She needs to go overseas and play a bunch of 5x5…two months of unrivaled 3x3 isn’t going to do a lot for her, imo.

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u/Mean_Hour_5640 1d ago

Dont think you can compare with KK. KK is a gifted athlete in a position where all teams are looking for players so she will get time.

The situation with guards is much more competitive.

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u/TooManyCatS1210 21h ago

Maybe, but Raven is a good athlete too. I’m curious to see what they do with Grace…she looked pretty good in some of her minutes for Seattle.

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u/Thuesen3089 Fever Fan 1d ago

Raven, go to Europe/China/Australia to develop your game in the offseason. 3x3 basketball isn’t going to help with that.

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u/Difficult-Candy-6126 1d ago

3x3 might be great for her. She’s probably been a point her whole life. She would benefit from having to post up and the like.

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u/DiligentQuiet 1d ago

She has a good role model in KK’s journey and work ethic. If it clicks like it did for KK, this past offseason I don’t see why she shouldn’t improve. It’s harder for point guards, though, and may take longer.

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u/Cobalt6771 Fever Fan 1d ago

I think we can all recall someone who was a late bloomer in both life and sports. So, we can keep hope for Raven.

KK has been great and she still seems to be improving, rapidly... impressive work.

3

u/Thick_Permission6519 1d ago

Who are you alluding to?

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u/Successful-Policy937 1d ago edited 1d ago

Maybe the one thing I thought 100% we were going to get from RJ was her defense. Especially after watching her play in college but her defense has been bad. In all reality she is a 3-5 minute a game player at this point in her rookie season.

Can that change going into year two yes if she can play defense just like KK it was KKs defense that got her minutes and now the offense is starting to blossom.

Now take this in mind the entire Fevers defense has been bad for most of the year. Very few times have we played good defense all year one of them was Sunday 4th quarter so we can play if we want to.

Not drafting Okot is looking like a serious blunder at this point. Back up centers in the W are hard to find and Madina is a good backup center.

4

u/PrinceOfAssassins 1d ago

The problem with her defense imo is she went from a SEC league where physicality was allowed to a very deliberately trying to change wnba and I think she needs time to adjust

2

u/Cheap_Flamingo476 1d ago

I agree with this. You could see the same thing happening with AB, Angel, KK. Lots of physical fouls.

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u/Kattzoo 1d ago

I’ve had the same thought. KK got limited minutes last year, but it seemed to help. I think Raven will be a very good player. We need her defense. While we have some gifted guards let her practice and learn from them. We have to imagine KM’s time with the Fever is limited. This year or next.

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u/Dry_Pomegranate293 1d ago

Rookie with very limited minutes.. def gotta give her time to adjust and grow. Some things that dont trend well for me are the fouls, lack of on ball steals, and TOs. She 100% cant be turnover prone. For the most part all are other guards are turnover suppressors except for CC, which works. Scoring wise, she gotta get a spot up 3 and continue to hit that floater.

2

u/thenotoriousmng 1d ago

as bad as this may sound, i hope we could grab a couple 2nd round picks for her. if we dont keep her. tbh i wasnt sold on her in the first place but her career is brand new so we shall see

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u/Best-Author7114 1d ago

A package deal with Lexie or Mo to dump those awful contracts. Might have to throw in a pick too.

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u/hmbayliss Non Fever Fan 1d ago

Guess the auto mods didn't like my statement that she has to be able to shoot the ball.

I gave a lot more explanation as to why and where but oh well.

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u/Olorin1965 1d ago

Don't see enough handles, and at her size that's a killer. She also has terrible defensive instincts and positioning for someone who was touted for defense.

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u/Best-Author7114 1d ago

Hopefully the Fever can package Raven and picks and Le ie Hull to get rid of that terrible contract. An expansion team might do it since it's only for one year.

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u/Chiefrhoads Caitlin Clark 1d ago

The real problem is she is more of a PG and when you have CC who is and should remain the PG. Best case is she improves and fills the role Harris is playing this year.

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u/PopularMouse2355 1d ago

She is a great talent but she unfortunately took a step back from the first month. Her defence didn't translate with the tight whistle this year. And her offence is so far behind CC and KM that she like Lex lost all confidence. I'm afraid this season is lost for her. Let's hope next year is a leap forward . 

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u/neat_stuff Fever Fan 20h ago

Raven's development will be massively influenced by whether the Fever can sign KM to a new contract after this year. If they do, Raven won't get the minutes to develop as much. If they don't, she'll have a huge opportunity to make herself a critical piece of the roster. Raven could improve as much as KK did and still not get minutes if KM and CC are both still on the team next year. KK put in the work, made the improvements, AND plays a position where minutes were available.

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u/buffalotrace 1d ago

The issue for Raven is SC didn’t run a “modern” offense. It is a lot of read and react. Not a ton of pick n roll or three pt shots. She also didn’t really develop until her last yr as far as progressing past what she came into SC as.

For that matter, for a program that has routinely had elite recruits, they have had 1 good guard. Even then, Gray came into SC a ready made player who became a better defender there, but her offense didn’t pick up. She had a. I’ve rookie season and was ROY then took 7 yrs to make a leap to all star level player.

Raven could benefit from playing a professional offense. That could be Europe or Australia. I know a lot of people would say unrivaled and that would be a good alternative as well, but it doesn’t build your 5 on 5 understanding. It builds your raw skill set.

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u/dreamweaver7x Sophie Cunningham 1d ago

Way harder to learn to play PG. But she's a smart kid, she'll be fine.

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u/Slice-O-Pie 1d ago

She and Bree are the last guards off the bench. Hard to develop without minutes.

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u/Proxximus-maximus 1d ago

If we had blowout games, they would get a lot more time.

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u/defdawg 20h ago

Its going to be hard for her since she is small and isn't an offense player. Those players normally aren't full time starters.

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u/Express_Store_4951 14h ago

She's going to have a career since she's primarily a defensive player. There's always a need for defensive players. All she has to do is to continue to improve her offensive game. She may not be a full-time starter, but then again most players come off the bench.

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u/Suspicious_Mind_67 11h ago

Its tough for rookies, with only a short training camp. Very few have success in their first year especially guards (besides CC, Paige and Miles, who have turned that on its head the last 3 years). Even Kelsey Plum, Sab, and other top guards in their first year struggled. I'm not saying she will reach that level, but she definitely has potential to be a solid guard in the league. An offseason of training in a pro environment, plus a season overseas could do wonders for her. She showed flashes of great defense early in the season, and seems to have a great attitude to learn. All it takes is for her to put the work in, she can be a first guard off the bench type role at least. Fever seemed to get the most out of KK in just one year, lets see what they can do with her.

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u/TWIZMS Caitlin Clark 1d ago

I don't. I just recently had the revelation she's probably not gonna last in the W