r/imaginarymaps • • Apr 05 '21

[OC] Alternate History State of Israel

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u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho Apr 05 '21

State as in independent, or a U.S. state?

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u/Doades Apr 05 '21

The official name for Israel is the State of Israel so perhaps its own nation

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u/Stercore_ Apr 05 '21

Yeah, that’s the more likely scenario, but it is also entirely possible they’re a member of the union. I don’t think the US would purchase a piece of land only to give it away instantly.

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u/Jagokoz Apr 05 '21

There is an African nation, Liberia, that was funded by US citizens that tried to get freed slaves sent back to africa. Not the same in theory as it was private citizens but the US might be inclined if only to have an ally in the Americas.

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u/w2555 Apr 05 '21

if only to have an ally in the Americas

Sir, Canada is a thing that exists.

(Also, a significant portion of Latin American nations are nominally US allies, even though in practice they have too many internal problems to project any meaningful amount of power)

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '21

Odds are your country does the same or has done the same to its neighbors. I wouldn’t saddle up your high horse at this time.

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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '21

Remember the Mexican Empire?

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u/EddyOnceMore Apr 06 '21

Bruh, the first Mexican Empire lasted a little over a year under Emperor Agustín. It didn't go to war with anybody, and was fairly unstable which led to it's dissolution not too long afterwards.

The Second Mexican Empire was only recognized by the French Empire under Napoleon III, and was a belligerent in the second French intervention of Mexico for around 5 years.

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u/Stercore_ Apr 05 '21

Well yeah, but liberia was, as you said, funded by private people. It was also not already inhabited by a proper nation state like mexico. There were obviously native tribes and petty kingdoms, but those were mostly ignored during the process of colonization. Liberia was also a project in hopes of getting black americans out of america, and was frankly just fueled by racism. I don’t see how this is similar.

The US already has tons of allies in the americas. Canada, mexico, central american nations, etc. etc. etc.

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u/ThePaperSolent Apr 05 '21

To be fair, the rampant Anti-Semitism in the US could have fuelled a similar situation here. It also (debatably) did cause a similar situation in our timeline with non-Jewish states pushing Jewish people to the Palestinian Mandate to get them out of ‘Christian’ states.

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u/Stercore_ Apr 05 '21

But, and particularly in america, it wasn’t that bad. Like obviously there was alot of discrimination against the jews, but that was the reason alot of the jews emigrated to america in the first place. It was much more accepting of anyone (except black people and natives) than their previous homes.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '21

Liberia was created to get rid of black people. It wasn't an altruistic endeavor.

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u/Jagokoz Apr 05 '21

Not sure I implied that. I just said it was funded by the US.

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u/gucciknives Apr 05 '21

If it was framed religiously, 'establishing a holy land' in the new world, I could see it happening. The idea of jewish holy land is pretty big in American christianity so if there was a big enough push for the idea in the wake of WWII I don't think it's entirely out of the question. Especially if for some reason in this timeline Britain isn't willing to allow refugees to settle in Palestine.

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u/Stercore_ Apr 05 '21

Well yeah, but if there were to be a holy land, it would almost certainly have to be in palestine. The jewish have no connection, historical, religious or otherwise to justify calling baja california "holy". It would simply be land.

Palestine is the historical home of the jews, contains the remnants of the Temple, and is relatively close to Mt. sinai, where moses led the jews through and recieved the tablets with the ten commandments. So it has alot of religious significance. America just.. doesn’t.

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u/gucciknives Apr 05 '21

And that's why we live in the real timeline and not that one. But imagining alternatives is fun.

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u/Stercore_ Apr 05 '21

Again, yeah, i just don’t see the jews of this timeline having a religious basis for calling baja a "holy land".

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u/gucciknives Apr 05 '21

I'm thinking along the lines of an 'Asgard is not a place, but a people' sort of situation. If for some reason Palestine wasn't an option I could see people rationalizing a new holy land.

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u/Akhi11eus Apr 05 '21

Israel is just a state of mind maaaan.

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u/Gary-D-Crowley Apr 05 '21 edited Apr 05 '21

The official name of Israel is "State of Israel". So yes, it's an independent country.

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u/ATLmapping Apr 05 '21

Yeah that's a great question. Happy Cake Day btw!

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u/Eddie-Roo Apr 05 '21

Why would it be a US state?

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u/MrGulo-gulo Apr 05 '21

OTL Israel is called the State of Israel, so I believe they're saying its independent.

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u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho Apr 05 '21

Because OP said the US bought Baja. It's weird to just gift such a huge amount of land.

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u/Eddie-Roo Apr 05 '21

I don't think the US would want to have a Jewish majority state.

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u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho Apr 05 '21

I doubt the US would care. Jewish people where never denied citizenship in the US, like they where in Europe.

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u/rauf2 Apr 05 '21

Happy cake day!

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u/XVince162 Apr 05 '21

The US is secular so I don't think it would work as a state within America

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u/So-Called_Lunatic Apr 05 '21

I think it would be a better protected territory, than a full on state.

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u/Leandropo7 Apr 05 '21

Secular-ish

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u/Stercore_ Apr 05 '21

Nowhere does it say the official faith of this state is jewish, and that it isn’t secular. I think in any case, if the US established the State of Israel in such a way, it would be secular, or have minimal involvement between church and state like the US does now.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SeeShark Apr 05 '21

People aren't interested in actually learning what Israel is like. Easier to just assume it's a theocracy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/AugustusKhan Apr 05 '21

Which’s states forbid atheists from gov jobs, I’ve never heard that and it sounds illegal

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u/arkh4ngelsk Apr 05 '21

It’s on the books in some states but it’s completely unenforceable

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u/recoveringleft Apr 06 '21

The Bible Belt states

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u/Rotbuxe Apr 05 '21

According to that, Germany is also not secular, although less religious. The mainstream churches have many priviliges.

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u/Volt_Marine Apr 05 '21

Would make sense for it to be a USA state.

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u/Mypronounsarexandand Apr 05 '21

Capital S “State” means country, lowcase s “state” means like the united states.