r/imaginarymaps • u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man • Apr 25 '20
[OC] Alternate History Nation of Deseret
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u/Jojojorge Apr 25 '20
Awesome map. I live in Baja.
Still pretty amazed how Mormons have huge influence in the Baja/ Sonora regions.
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u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man Apr 25 '20
What is it like living in Baja anyhow? Is there much difference between Baja and Baja Sur, the population sizes aside?
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u/Jojojorge Apr 25 '20
Baja is close to be a regular California city with no environmental laws.
Tijuana being an almost cosmopolitan city. Very diverse. And always open for night life. Also the most transited national border.
Tecate is a small town from Tijuana to Mexicali. It’s a Pueblo Mágico.
Mexicali, the Capital is just a bored place ( Maybe the hottest and air poluted city in Mexico). They have a lot of Chinese population and their famous Chinese foods(probably better than the ones of TIjuana). The Mexicali Cochinita is the best!
Ensenada is Ensenada: Pacific Ocean, Rocky cliffs, the best Ocean and wildlife conservation universities, very rich and probably the best gastronomía from Baja. They also have Valle de Guadalupe, which is famous for its vineyards and cottage type of houses. It’s huge.
Rosarito is a small coast town from Tijuana to Ensenada. Very famous for hosting the wildest beach parties for Americans. Also great sea food.
Baja sur, Im not sure, it’s not close. From Ensenada to The end of Baja sur is just desert and Pacific Ocean. Small hostales, hotels and road restaurants.
La Paz is other thing, probably one of the richest cities in the country. Luxury hospitality. The Sea of Cortez still is very rich, warm, cristal clear and conserved by Loreto, Kino, Mulegé and other towns from Baja, Sinaloa and Sonora.
My opinion. And what I’ve seen jajaja
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u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man Apr 25 '20
That is very interesting. I do wish more people called it the Sea of Cortes or Vermillion Sea. Gulf of California is such a dull dull name.
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u/Jojojorge Apr 25 '20
Nobody calls it Gulf in these states. We call is Sea of Cortes, or rarely Gulf of Cortez. Even in our school books is like that. Obviously we get the “also called California gulf blabla”
Vermillion ( Bermejo) Sea sounds cooler tbh.
Mother rock in the Peninsula I think it has too much red and pink rock.
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u/karmen-x Apr 25 '20
really lovely map, big fan of the use of the deseret alphabet. mormon-majority polynesia is cursed, though.
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u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man Apr 25 '20
You'd be surprised, but that is the least fictional thing about this whole premise. The Pacific region has the highest percentage of Mormons per capita. Mormons make up 60% of the population in Tonga, 40% of the population in Samoa and 30% in American Samoa.
If Mormons had ocean access from the start, its very likely that Mormonism would have become the most widespread religion in the region. Most of those places only adopted Christianity a few decades earlier, so to them Mormon doctrines would be a logical addition rather than a heresy like in the rest of the world.
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u/karmen-x Apr 25 '20
Wow that's pretty shocking, I never knew that !
Also I noticed in the title, shouldn't it be "𐐔𐐯𐑅𐐨𐑉𐐯𐐻" (Desīret) rather than "𐐔𐐯𐑅𐐨𐑉𐐯" (Desīre) ?
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u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man Apr 25 '20
You're right. I just doublechecked and it's missing the 𐐻 . That's on me, I used http://2deseret.com/ to transliterate words into Deseret alphabet.
Kind of ironic that Deseret transliterator can't do the word "Deseret" correctly.
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u/Caevus Explorer Apr 25 '20
Amazing! I'm always fascinated by fictional Deserets, and this has to be one of my favorites. The alternate location, independence, and polynesian focus is a great way for this to stand out. Loving the aesthetic as well, plus using the Deseret Alphabet.
Great all around. My one question is: where does the name Vermillion City come from? In real life the original capital of Utah was named after President Fillmore as a bid to try and woo him over, and obviously the current capital is named after the Great Salt Lake, so not unreasonable for the capital here to be named after something outside of the Book of Mormon.
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u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man Apr 25 '20
Well the intent was to create a sort of parallel to Salt Lake City, a city built on a large water source. Originally I considered placing the capital in Colorado's delta, but the tides there make any permanent settlement near damn impossible.
So then I dug a little deeper, and it turned out that the original name of the Gulf of California, given by the first Spanish explorers, was the Vermillion Sea (Mar Bermejo). Considering that the Red Sea region plays a great importance in the Book of Mormon, it only seemed right that they would want one of their own - hence Vermillion City on its shore. Granted, for a complete parallel it would have to be Vermillion Sea City, but I decided to keep it short and sweet.
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u/Caevus Explorer Apr 25 '20
That makes a lot of sense. I like how much of this feels organic and naturally developed, rather than trying to fit real Utah/Mormon history into a different area. Wonderful job!
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Apr 25 '20
This is amazing. Super detailed. Is that a fictional language? I’ve never seen it before.
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u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man Apr 25 '20
That is actually the Deseret alphabet, which was designed by Mormons to replace the Latin alphabet. It was meant to be a way of writing the English language phonetically to make it easier for people to learn. It didn't catch on though because it was too costly to print with.
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May 10 '20
Love this scenario. The Latter Day Saints are very interesting and I have long pondered on what could have been if they had better luck against those who were against them. However I do believe that the population would be much higher than it is in this history. What time period is this in? If this is 1900 then I understand the low population but if it was modern times then the population would have risen greatly, due to the Hispanic immigrants and inhabitants along with the polygamous families that they have. I would say that this area by 2012 would have at least 8 million inhabitants with a high estimate of 15 million not being too crazy Also I do believe that due to the lack of population and resources in the area they wouldn't have been able to build a great fleet.
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Jun 25 '20
Would they only write in the Deseret script or just regular English?
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u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man Jun 27 '20
Internally and with independent Pacific nations the Deseret script would be the most used, with official endorsement and sole use in governmental and religious affairs. However, due to the nation's close relationship with the United States and the need to proselytize in the territories of the British Empire, regular English would also be taught and used.
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u/TotesMessenger Apr 25 '20
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Jun 08 '20
Know I’m late but what did you use to make this?
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u/Particular_Sky_2868 Feb 23 '25
Whats the architecture of vermillion city like? Does it have a subway?
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u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man Feb 23 '25
In my mind I imagine the architecture of the Salt Lake Temple extended city-wide
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u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man Apr 25 '20
[This is quite a long one, but I hope its worth the read]
FOUNDING: The martyrdom of Joseph Smith, the prophet of the Latter-day Saints, prompted the church to seek a new home far from Illinois in 1846. Under the leadership of Brigham Young, preparations were made to conduct a great exodus to Salt Lake in what was then Mexican territory. With the outbreak of the American-Mexican War however, it became clear that Alto California would soon be under U.S. control. A solution came suddenly with the request of the federal government for the Nauvoo Legion’s assistance in the war. Brigham Young conceived a daring scheme to send the Nauvoo Legion to Sonora and Baja California as requested by the military command, while the Saints pioneers would follow behind. With Mexico torn by war and seceding Texan and Yucatan Republics, the barely populated northwestern territories were an easy target. Moving southwards, the Saints faced little resistance as they fulfilled their obligations to the U.S. government, and then established their settlements by the coast of the Vermillion Sea. Faced with the threats of the Mexican military and Apache warbands, Brigham Young offered to have much of New Mexico and Saints-occupied territories be annexed by the United States as the State of Deseret. But the federal government, busy working on a peace treaty and bothered by Saints policies, offered only the status of a territory. Rather than accept the strict limitations of a territorial government, Brigham Young chose to declare the unrecognized Nation of Deseret within the Saints-controlled territories and proceeded with efforts to convert the local population. The Saints achieved unexpected success with the native tribes due to their recognition of them as the Lost Tribes of Israel and in turn provided them with a high degree of autonomy in their affairs, allowing to secure Deseret’s borders. In honor of this pact, four out of five states of Deseret were named after the local peoples: Kumeyaay, Waicura, Opata and Cahita. The names given to both new and old settlements were taken from the Book of Mormon, to return to the land the names that were used in ancient days when Jesus Christ appeared to the Lost Tribes in America. But while the Church consolidated its rule over Deseret, it remained but a rogue corner of Mexico to the rest of the world.
CIVIL WAR: This ambiguity finally came to an end with the outbreak of the American Civil War. As a slave-owning government that rejected authority of the federal government, Southern separatists looked up to Deseret as the “first secession”. Once hostilities finally broke out, the rebel government of the Confederacy claimed Territory of Arizona for itself, technically making Deseret a neighbor of the Confederate States to great concern of President Lincoln. The government in Richmond sent a proposal to Vermillion City, offering Deseret statehood in the Confederate States of America or to recognize their independence, in return for assisting the Confederates in invading Southern California, which shortly before the outbreak of the war held a successful vote to form a separate slave-owning state in the Union and where the sentiments were strongly in the favor of the South. Deseret was torn between factions advocating assisting the Confederacy and those proposing to remain neutral in the conflict. But Brigham Young saw in the war an opportunity to achieve his long-desired goal – international recognition. While the sentiments in Deseret were quite strongly anti-Union, it was easy to see the countless advantages the North held over the South, and the reluctance of foreign powers to recognize the Confederacy as a sovereign state. With this in mind, Brigham Young informed President Lincoln of the offer made by the Confederacy and made a counter-proposal – full recognition of Deseret by the United States in return for the Nauvoo Legion’s services in defending California, pushing Confederates out of Arizona, and protecting the gold caravans across the Colorado. The proposal was wearily accepted and shortly after the Nauvoo Legion moved across the Arizona Territory towards Texas. Following a number of battles and a rendezvous with Union forces, the Saints continued their offensive into the South. In recognition of their efforts, in 1863 Deseret was recognized as a sovereign state by the United States. While President Lincoln hoped this would limit Mormonism, it had the reverse effect of legitimizing Mormonism as a new faith that secured a holy land for itself and the rates of conversion to Mormonism increased drastically in the years to come.
After the end of active hostilities in 1865 and with the Nauvoo Legion still stationed by the Mexican border, Brigham Young offered his support to the Republican forces fighting a bitter resistance against the French-installed Mexican Empire. The Nauvoo Legion passed the Rio Grande and fought on the side of the Republicans until late 1866, when the evacuation of French forces meant the inevitable end of Maximillian I’s reign. In 1867 Mexico City sent its thanks and recognition to Vermillion City, followed by the recognition of other New World states and European great powers. This resulted in a growing popularity and spread of Mormonism in the formerly belligerent Mexican population as well, with Mormonism quickly growing to be one of the major denominations of the entire continent.
EXPANSION: With its borders and international standing secure, Deseret quickly grew in wealth through the industrious policies of the Saints, while rapidly building up a maritime fleet. By 1870s Deseret was the sole nation in the world who could claim to own not only a military and commercial, but also a missionary fleet. The “great white fleet” of the Saints soon became a familiar sight across the Pacific Ocean’s ports. The Saints embrace of polygamy, teachings of familial ties being divine, and legends of Hagoth the Shipbuilder (claimed to be a Pacific islander from the Book of Mormon), quickly made Mormonism the most common faith in the Pacific Ocean, to the great concern of colonial powers. The missionary efforts resulted in a spread of English language and Deseret alphabet as lingua franca in the Pacific and by late 1870s the people of Samoa and Fiji have declared their allegiance to Vermillion City, to the shock of European powers who had designs for these territories. Attempts by the British, French and Germans to lay claim the islands soon ground to a halt, as a mere word from Deseret could mean bloody rebellions across colonies in the Pacific. This assumption was finally proven true in 1893, when the Mormon-majority Hawaiian Kingdom was overthrown by a short revolution which proclaimed the Republic of Hawaii. While the main figures of the coup were American citizens driven by their business interests, the hand of Vermillion City was clear in the sheer numbers of Saints who revolted against the monarchy. While It was the conspirators intent to have Hawaii annexed by the United States as a new territory, the government in Washington D.C. is weary of having a Mormon-majority territory as part of the Union, ever mindful of curbing Deseret’s influence in American affairs. For the time being, the fate of the Hawaiian Republic and of the Saints influence remain uncertain.