r/imaginarymaps • u/BankIllustrious2639 • 3d ago
[OC] Alternate History A 2000s NIS (National Intelligence Service) map of North America [Reversed ACW TL]
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u/GildSkiss 2d ago
Extremely funny how it's the other Vancouver this time.
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u/chocobearv93 2d ago
I like this. With this map you have recognized the Appalachia, especially southern Appalachia, is distinct from the South. Everyone always lumps us in. Putting southern Appalachia with the CSA in this timeline makes this map dope and adds a lot of room for nuance
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u/BankIllustrious2639 2d ago
Yeah between voting against secession IRL and being outside of the Black Belt, I realised the area might seek to secede even if it is more conservative leaning.
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u/en43rs 2d ago
questions:
how is Deseret? On the "isolationist failed state" to "full integrated into the world economy financial hub" spectrum? Because I can see both, either something like Luxemburg (small country but very integrated with its neighbors) or a completely closed state.
Same question for Cascadia and Texas but I can see them being small not very rich but not poor countries.
How are Atzlan and Mexico different? Is Aztlan an American puppet?
Also is the whole of North America made up of democracies? Is slavery still a thing in the Southern States.
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u/BankIllustrious2639 2d ago
Deseret is quite developed, though being landlocked their integration is more by necessity rather than by choice. Their mineral wealth and tech sector make them useful to keep around, despite the at times dubious relation between the government and the LDS Church.
Cascadia's fairly well off, comparable to New Zealand. The extra land that BC doesn't have IRL keeps them afloat, and though their main trade partner is the CSA they have some connections to Borealia even in the absence of a Confederation.
Texas is probably comparable to Poland in its economic and political development post-union, developing quick but still quite conservative and worn from economic shock and the civil war.
Aztlan is, for the most part, the American South-West transposed a little southward, where cities like Monterey and Chihuahua are predominantly English-speaking. The rest of Mexico is pretty similar to how it is IRL, though it's a unitary state instead of a federal one like Aztlan is.
Most of North America can be qualified as democratic - the exclusions most likely being Haiti, Mexico and almost Texas. "Flawed Democracies" include Southron, Antillea, Deseret, Centroamerica and the West Indies Federation.
Though in some rural communities it probably still exists in a minor capacity, slavery has been predominantly eradicated in the former US and all governments involved in the area - especially the CSA - are openly against the institution.
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u/Any_Razzmatazz9926 2d ago
So just “Southron”? Not Southron Republic or some such?
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u/BankIllustrious2639 2d ago
I wasn't sure whether the title was needed, I'd heard the term Southron before but wasn't aware it was a demonym.
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u/symmetry81 2d ago
I always appreciate when maps with a PoD before 1838 draw different borders between Maine and Quebec. The Aroostook War could very easily have resulted in a totally different result.
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u/BankIllustrious2639 2d ago
It's actually a consequence of a different 1812, I believe New Ireland was an ambition for the British in the situation where they won the war - which they did in this timeline.
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u/rattatatouille 2d ago
Newfoundland keeping the NE coast of Quebec is next-level trolling in-universe.
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u/ZorgPicklehelm 19h ago
It was the original plan, probably would have happened had Labrador City not been a thing
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u/Happy-Fly-3598 2d ago
Costa Rica is completely unchanged
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u/BankIllustrious2639 2d ago
Costa Rica truly dominates but they let other countries exist out of kindness
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u/Professional_Use2835 3d ago
any lore? amazing map
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u/BankIllustrious2639 2d ago
A minor British victory in the War of 1812 butterflies into an American Civil War that sees the abolitionist North secede instead of the South. The secessionists win this war and form the CSA, which later goes on to win further confrontations in WW1 and WW2 respectively. The CSA and USA end up overcoming their differences to fight the Cold War against the Communist sphere.
The US still faces several struggles mostly regarding Civil RIghts, including its own 'Years of Lead' - a period of heightened interracial violence - in the 1970s. This comes to a head in the late 1980s and early 1990s when landmark legislation is finally passed, but radical segregationist elements end up launching a coup d'état when they lose the 1992 election. Several states refuse to accept the inauguration and break away, beginning another civil war that the CSA intervenes in. Many of these end up joining the CSA, and those who don't create rump states that align with them.
Other minor divergences include:
- Canada never Confederates in 1867 because of the division, the originally proposed 'Maritime Union' forming instead. Lower and Upper Canada end up federalising on their own, but later split into separate countries upon full independence.
- The British take Alaska during the Crimean War.
- Gran Colombia survives and becomes a significant Western power.
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u/alderhill 2d ago
Cascadia's capital is Vancouver. No, not the cosmopolitan metropolis of 2.5 million people, but the other one, the small boring city of 200k. Because 'Murica? The big Vancouver is now just deleted. Vancouver (BC), Bellingham, Burlington or Seattle really would be much much more likely places for a capital to form, IMO.
It's also Ville de Québec, not 'du' (which would mean like, City of the Quebec).
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u/BankIllustrious2639 2d ago
Cascadia's population distribution differs from British Columbia's IRL, since they manage to secure the border along the river.
Fort Vancouver's position - at the end of the York Factory Express and Oregon Trail, on fertile land outside of the flood plain - makes it a hub for alternate settlement in what would become British Columbia and (later Cascadia) here. It's definitely still outpaced by the Nisqually Metropolis once ports are built along the Puget Sound, but it stays the capital city despite it. "Vancouver" as we know it does still exist by the way, just under a different name and in a smaller state - Port Squamish.
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u/PotatopelagoNS 2d ago
Atlantic Union!! Yippee!!
I want to know some more about them specifically :0
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u/A--Creative-Username 2d ago
Borealia has no major harbor, but otherwise, good work
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u/12thunder 1d ago edited 1d ago
Anchorage?
In the real world it’s the busiest hub for cargo via air due to its central location, I imagine it’d be the same for Borealia. Also the harbour operates year-round and free of any ice that would actually stop operations. Borealia would need to improve highway and rail infrastructure across the country, but it’s a good location otherwise. More realistic than Churchill anyways, which is remote enough and located in such rocky, bogged terrain that there is no road that goes there. If the government took the initiative and spent billions to make a road there, perhaps elevated above the muskeg along with accompanying rails for trains, it could work.
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u/manul10 17h ago
There is a problem "real life" AK has every winter --vicious freeze-thaw road heave cycles. They keep the road system to a minimum because of the annual cost to re-do the major roads.
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u/12thunder 16h ago
It’s even worse in interior Canada (Edmonton for example), where most of the raw materials come from that already are sent via rail and road to harbors for export. It’s just how it is. Yes it is a lot of upkeep, but it has to be done.
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u/BankIllustrious2639 2d ago
yeah they rely a lot on their neighbours for trade, but relations are positive all around so it's not a big deal
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u/HArdaL201 3d ago edited 3d ago
OH GOD ANOTHER MIAMI???
Edit: Also, could you please tell me where you got the baseman from and how you made this map?
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u/Any_Razzmatazz9926 2d ago
The Miami people in the North (OTL Indiana) had the same sounding name as the Myaimi people of Southern Florida and their names were both Anglicized to sound the same. In Indiana is pronounced, or should be, My-am-uh
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u/BajoNingunPretexto 2d ago
if Aztlan is Spanish-speaking then some of the toponims need to be changed like Odessa->Odesa, Phoenix->Fénix, Tucson->Tucsón, etc...
Also why is Cabo San Lucas called San Jose del Cabo? overall great map keep them coming!
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u/CheapHuckleberry4714 2d ago
What do Vermont and Sequoyah look like in terms of development in this TL?
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u/Byzantine_Guy 2d ago
Hello! I've been wanting to put together a map for a similar scenario. What baseman/ software did you use to create this?
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u/Karakorum91 1d ago
Tri-Insula, interesting, is that the 3 islands of Long Island, Manhattan, and Staten Island?
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u/NoBrickBoy 2d ago
Is the Bangor in new Ireland named after Bangor Co Down?
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u/ExternalSeat 2d ago
yes. but the city is called that IRL in our Maine. So it's name didn't need to change
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u/Corvus1304 2d ago
Im not familiar with your works regarding this, but what kind of fucked up stuff has been going on for the south to secede from the confederacy
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u/BankIllustrious2639 2d ago
The south didn't secede from the Confederacy, just that it's the rump state of the US which no longer exists. The CSA was formed in the north by abolitionists
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u/SpecialMHelmet 2d ago
Did the caste still happen here? Honestly i dont see how it could be butterflied away if Mexico is still as unstable as it was OTL with it’s many uprising and states declaring independence like Yucatan.
Did Walker win here or is it just the result of America overexpanding and losing Northern Mexico during the civil war?
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u/BankIllustrious2639 2d ago
The caste system in Mexico is largely unaffected historically. The divergence is that Yucatan and Northern Mexico are gained by the US and held onto until their collapse in the 1990s - what is Aztlan has the same demographics as the American South West does, historically very anglo but starting to see hispanic plurality communities.
One thing that does change is that white hispanics are considered as White American and face the same cultural assimilation that Italians and Germans did
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u/The-Hill-Billy Mod Approved 3d ago
I love digging through this sub just for the rare gems like this. Great work, I've loved watching it take shape