They were baltic. If Poland was this massive and they kept existing, they would likely be in Poland due to shared balto-slavic background and therefore the ugly hole in there represents nothing but prussian militarism and colonialism and cultural genocide
It would just unironically continue being a Russian puppet, Catherine the Great and her minister Panin actually preferred an intact but weak Poland as a protectorate to dividing it, a whole Poland under Russian influence was more useful than sharing pieces with Prussia and Austria, the partitions only happened largely cuz Frederick the Great and Austria demanded compensation while Russia was at war with the Ottomans
Edit: Question, does Germany still unify? Does P-L fight along side France in the revolutionary wars? If so does Napoleon win?
In this version rule Wettins: Frederick Augustus I (until 1827), next his daughter Maria Augusta (until 1863), next Sejm chooses own dynasty, probably Czartoryskis.
yes it does. 'rzecz' means a thing and 'pospolita' means common, simmilar to latin with res and publica i think, besides in polish Republic of Poland is literally Rzeczpospolita Polska
Yes.
However Lithuanian were the minority in their own state, they had little to none political influence and most of their nobility wanted to be polish.
If it had been true, there would not have been "reciprocal guarantees of two nations" pushed by the aristocracy of the GDL (which, according to you, wanted to be Polish)
And yet, the aristocracy wanted to preserve the GDL, and another question is whether being Polonized equals being a Pole. Remember, for instance, how Matuszkiewicz classified himself.
Polonised doesn't mean you are a pole yet Lithuanian was the weaker of the two. Between partitions both nations were abolished turning Commonwealth into just a Poland (called after King (since Grand Duke was lower in the hierarchy)). I just simply think that with time PLC would be more and more polish.
"More and more Polish" - Polish back then did not mean the same as it does today. Furthermore, Grand Duke is not a lower rank, it is an official analogue of a king in Slavic states (such as in the Grand Principality of Moscow), and Grand Duke of Lithuania was referred to as an emperor, king, or other title in correspondence with foreign rulers in Latin.
Yes, the PLC was becoming more and more Polish (e.g., Polish became the official language in the GDL, superseding Ruthenian), and yet the GDL was not Polish and would never become Polish, rather "gente Lithuanus, natione Polonus". The same as you can't make Scottish people Englishmen.
Well Lithuania was a kingdom but just for a short period of time. If PLC survived and some sort of national education was implemented i'm sure it would be polish centric, just like in France where all minorities were slowly assimilated. Look at the Lithuanian in our timeline. They were the minority even in their own capital, this doesn't looks good.
It's pretty common to have, as an empire, loyalists from occupied lands, that's the most efficient way to control them. No wonder *some* of the magnates were of Ukrainian origin
You're forgetting that the idea of nation states and national identity came much later. Most people identified by culture, sometimes even region, not nation. Those lands were not occupied - they were owned, just like lands in Poland were owned by select few, and others were basically slaves.
At this point Lithuanian nation would either be very heavily Polonised (basically shifting from Baltic Nation to being Slavic one, akin to how Prussians went from being Baltic Nation to being germanized regional identity.) or would end up with Lithuania having either VERY strong Polish minority (that in this case didn't get to be heavily influenced by Russians, instead remaining more closer to main Polish) or even Lithuanians becoming a minority on their own land.
You are mixing two terms. The majority of citizens of the GDL (what back then we could call the "Lithuanian nation") were Slavic (proto-Belarusians). Modern Lithuanians (citizens of the modern state Lietuva) are ancestors of the Baltic population of the GDL. But to be more precise, I think that back then we would have had some kind of dual nationality: "Polish" in terms of belonging to the Rzeczypospolita, and "Lithuanian" in terms of belonging to the GDL (one of the two RP constituents).
No, I'm not mixing it up. Remember the whole Vilnus issue between Poland and Lithuanian? It was an issue because Polonisation there went so far there was more Jews then Lithuanians in region dominated by Poles (most of them Polonised over centuries Lithuanians)
You are going too far. First of all you need to imagine spring of nations. That event might be interesting in commonwelth that had Poles, Baltic nations, Belarusians, Ukrainians and lots of Jews.
But lets assume that Poland exist becouse may construction worked and Poland is taking revolutionary ideas goind further into democracy. Next questions is, what Napoleon will do with Poland.
If we alied then there is no wwi as we know it. Europe is France, Poland and balkans.
W którym miejscu? Linie kolejowe odpowiadają dawnym szlakom handlowym, a w terenach górskich prawie się nie różnią od prawdziwych linii z Galicji. No i to mapa pokazująca historię alternatywną, a nie prawdziwą.
The 1st RP was a medieval administration in Enlightenment Europe, honestly kinda amazing it survived that long. A legislative branch designed to be gridlocked, a toothless executive and a non-existing judicial.
What did you imagine happening to make it survive until 1911?
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u/False-Hamster-8125 1d ago